Program Notes
Guest speaker: Mary Porter
Date this lecture was recorded: 2017
Around the kitchen table, we hear from the powerhouse Mary Porter, a Native woman who, after her wild years staying away from the medicine, founded the Looking Glass Peyote Church. The episode ends with hearing from a discriminating young veteran about his experience, through Mary, finally finding a teacher and a path.
Recommended Books
Black Elk Speaks: The Complete Edition by John G. Neihardt
My People the Sioux, New Edition by Luther Standing Bear
My Indian Boyhood, New Edition by Luther Standing Bear
Stories of the Sioux, New Edition by Luther Standing Bear
The Tragedy of the Sioux (Illustrated) y Chief Standing Bear
Fools Crow by Thomas E. Mails
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Transcript
00:00:00 ►
Greetings from Cyberdelic Space, this is Lorenzo and I’m your host here in Psychedelic Salon
00:00:23 ►
2.0.
00:00:24 ►
This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in Psychedelic Salon 2.0.
00:00:31 ►
And today, Lex and the team at Symposia are bringing to us a fascinating interview with Mary Porter,
00:00:36 ►
a Native American woman who has, well, quite a fascinating story to tell.
00:00:41 ►
In fact, today’s interview comes in two parts, and in the second half,
00:00:48 ►
Lex brings into the conversation a young military veteran who has benefited from Mary Porter’s peyote church.
00:00:52 ►
So now let’s join them around Mary’s kitchen table.
00:00:58 ►
Today’s show is made possible through your crowdfunded support on Patreon.
00:01:03 ►
Unlike other crowdfunding sites, Patreon lets you chip in a few bucks a month to help us keep the lights on.
00:01:06 ►
Find out more at patreon.com slash symposia.
00:01:26 ►
I’m Lex Pelger, and this is Symposio on the Psychedelic Salon 2.0.
00:01:36 ►
This week, I’m pleased to be sitting down with Mary Porter, who founded the Looking Glass Peyote Church.
00:01:41 ►
By the way, you’ll notice that this interview obviously took place around the kitchen table. You can hear her husband, you can hear a veteran who has been
00:01:45 ►
with her taking the medicine, and shuffling, smoking, water running, and I was going to
00:01:53 ►
apologize for that, but you know what? I am not. Because more and more, I like these interviews
00:01:58 ►
being around where people feel most comfortable. And Mary laughed and said, the kitchen table is
00:02:02 ►
the center of our home. And so we sat there after breakfast and learned more about what brought her to founding the Looking Glass Peyote Church.
00:02:11 ►
Thank you. I hope you enjoy.
00:02:16 ►
So I was curious how you came to start the church like you did.
00:02:24 ►
That’s a really complicated question.
00:02:27 ►
It’s kind of long, but I’ll make it short.
00:02:30 ►
I’m a four-fourths American Indian.
00:02:34 ►
I’m not enrolled anywhere.
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I’m the illegitimate child of a family who the mother and father,
00:02:43 ►
my mother and father were half brother and sister so
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because the tribes have moved towards Christianity it’s not polite you know
00:02:54 ►
to have someone like me around but I had gone to my tribe and with my DNA and tried to get enrolled
00:03:03 ►
and they denied me enrollment and really all I wanted
00:03:07 ►
was my cultural identity because of my family from the Columbia River
00:03:11 ►
and they denied me so I went to the Native American church with my DNA and
00:03:20 ►
um they recognized me as a four-fourths American Indian.
00:03:27 ►
And I started this church because I believe that in these times, the spiritual evolution, as indigenous people,
00:03:47 ►
to share our knowledge on certain aspects of life and spirituality that has been protected and guarded for thousands of years.
00:03:51 ►
The peyote church I started is more in the model of the peyote cult from thousands of
00:03:57 ►
years ago, where we didn’t look at people as the skin color or from a different tribe if they came for the medicine
00:04:09 ►
they got the medicine and it’s a calling and we believe it’s a calling as
00:04:15 ►
at this time nature is asking a whole lot of us to do a whole lot of things that we don’t understand, especially for people
00:04:26 ►
who are so layered in what I call European contact.
00:04:33 ►
And that’s one of the things that I’ve formed my church under, which is really a pain in
00:04:39 ►
the neck for a lot of people.
00:04:42 ►
It’s a pain in the neck for the government because I formed this church under pre-European contact laws
00:04:47 ►
which means they must protect everything that
00:04:52 ►
I believe and everything I believe is nothing that they are.
00:04:57 ►
It’s basically
00:04:59 ►
the snake is eating its tail.
00:05:04 ►
But in doing this, our elders have always talked about how the Europeans lost their tribal ways
00:05:17 ►
because all Europeans were indigenous at one point.
00:05:21 ►
And when you separate the human being from the natural environment,
00:05:27 ►
you get what the European aftermath is,
00:05:34 ►
that people don’t respect nature anymore.
00:05:38 ►
They don’t even do anything natural.
00:05:43 ►
The only thing natural they do is eat shit and piss.
00:05:47 ►
And that’s really not being a human being.
00:05:49 ►
That’s being a drone somewhere.
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There’s energy to all of us.
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And we as human beings at this time,
00:06:02 ►
nature has prescribed us to do something.
00:06:06 ►
And until human beings of all races can scratch past the crap and get back to that spark of life that started our growth in the womb, because that is natural law.
00:06:21 ►
Because that is natural law.
00:06:31 ►
Mother Nature herself prescribed that spark of life in us to come here and do a certain thing.
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And we are not doing it.
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As a species, we’re the only thing on this planet that does not do what it’s supposed to do.
00:06:41 ►
And we all have the ability to do that.
00:06:48 ►
And this is the purpose of this church, is to help people evolve spiritually.
00:06:49 ►
We aren’t healers.
00:06:52 ►
I’m not going to help you get past your crap.
00:06:54 ►
You’re going to have to do that all on your own.
00:06:56 ►
Because I don’t know what it is, only you know.
00:06:58 ►
Get past that crap.
00:07:05 ►
You know, learn to be a human being.
00:07:07 ►
We all can be indigenous.
00:07:09 ►
Be part of your environment.
00:07:14 ►
We all can be indigenous.
00:07:21 ►
It’s a natural occurring element in nature, and that’s what we are. If we are following the laws of nature.
00:07:26 ►
How does one prepare for taking the sacrament to get to that place i really emphasize no alcohol alcohol and the sacrament
00:07:37 ►
you don’t mix them it’s oil and water you’re either going to drink alcohol or you’re going to
00:07:45 ►
oil and water, you’re either going to drink alcohol or you’re going to use a sacrament.
00:07:55 ►
If you have personal issues in your own life that you question yourself or you feel you have things to work on in yourself, do that.
00:07:59 ►
Do a lot of meditating.
00:08:02 ►
Don’t run to the peyote because it doesn’t, you know,
00:08:05 ►
it might not always, you know, the peyote will pick its people.
00:08:08 ►
And I know when someone’s been called to the peyote.
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And they’re, it’s, I believe it’s a spiritual maturity
00:08:22 ►
that brings people to the need of the sacrament.
00:08:27 ►
Hmm. How so?
00:08:32 ►
These times right now, environmentally and socially,
00:08:38 ►
people don’t have the 40 years that I’ve had with the peyote to learn and grow.
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This is a crash course.
00:08:52 ►
We’re about to hit the wall.
00:08:55 ►
I believe we’re beyond the 11th hour.
00:08:57 ►
We’re like two minutes to the witching hour.
00:09:02 ►
And that’s the way a lot of indigenous people feel as far as environmentally and
00:09:06 ►
spiritually go. We’re about to hit the wall. You know, we’ve hit this wall before. This
00:09:12 ►
will be the fourth world going down. We’re moving into the fifth world. That’s what the
00:09:18 ►
elders, that’s what the earth tells us. We don’t have time to muddle around with people’s egos
00:09:27 ►
and for them to get ready.
00:09:29 ►
No, you’re either ready or you’re not ready.
00:09:31 ►
That’s the thing.
00:09:32 ►
There’s not 40 years to hang around.
00:09:35 ►
There’s not time for experimenting
00:09:37 ►
or whatever excuse you want to use
00:09:41 ►
to not do what nature is asking you to do,
00:09:43 ►
soul-searching, whatever the hell you want to call it.
00:09:46 ►
Because people are being called to do their job.
00:09:50 ►
And there’s intelligent people who use psychedelics and other natural medicines that they know
00:09:56 ►
this is something that they’re being called for something.
00:10:00 ►
And they need to learn to hear nature.
00:10:04 ►
And we don’t have 40 years like I’ve had to learn.
00:10:08 ►
And that’s what I’m talking about, spiritual maturity.
00:10:10 ►
Are you ready?
00:10:11 ►
Are you seriously ready?
00:10:13 ►
And don’t play around about it because I’ll know.
00:10:15 ►
And so will the medicine and so will a lot of other people.
00:10:18 ►
We don’t have the time to fool around with this.
00:10:22 ►
Just above where Standing Rock was protesting,
00:10:26 ►
fool around with this. Just above where Standing Rock was protesting. No one said anything about the seven football fields of oil that just got spilled up there. No one has talked about
00:10:33 ►
Yellowstone has moved its entire fault line just in the last 10 days. I don’t know if anyone’s talked about the super volcano in New Zealand has made its presence known again.
00:10:51 ►
No one’s talking about these things.
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Earth is telling us all something, and the information is being suppressed from us.
00:10:57 ►
And we need to literally answer the call of nature.
00:11:04 ►
We need to literally answer the call of nature.
00:11:14 ►
And so how did you get to the point that you can administer the medicine legally under the federal and the state government?
00:11:18 ►
That’s pretty impressive.
00:11:19 ►
Soldiers themselves, huh? Um, well, one of the senators here in Oregon has worked on my husband’s of course, got denied because under pre-European contact laws.
00:11:49 ►
That means I don’t sit down and write everything down to explain to you.
00:11:53 ►
And it’s not my fault that they’re ignorant
00:11:54 ►
and don’t know what pre-European contact laws are
00:11:56 ►
because if you ask any indigenous person on this continent,
00:12:00 ►
they could tell you what pre-European contact laws are.
00:12:03 ►
You know, it’s not our fault they’re ignorant. But they weren’t going to take that, and they denied me. So I contacted Senator
00:12:10 ►
Wyden’s office and explained to his assistant and got to explain to him what I’m talking about. And yes, we are
00:12:26 ►
a federal 501c and we
00:12:27 ►
formed under pre-European contact laws.
00:12:30 ►
And if you need to know what
00:12:32 ►
that means, you need to come and talk to me
00:12:34 ►
in person.
00:12:37 ►
That’s what it means. It’s an oral tradition.
00:12:41 ►
It’s an
00:12:41 ►
equal exchange of energy.
00:12:44 ►
We’re human beings. We have energy. And what we do with each other is an exchange of energy we’re human beings, we have energy
00:12:45 ►
and what we do with each other is an exchange of energy
00:12:49 ►
and by writing it all down
00:12:52 ►
it’s all good to have it in a record
00:12:55 ►
so people can go back and look at it
00:12:57 ►
but it’s really really important to put your message out
00:13:01 ►
one on one, your voice to my ear. That’s pre-European contact laws.
00:13:09 ►
It’s good to have recordings and, you know, writing down of things. But the important thing
00:13:15 ►
to get your message across is from my mouth to your ear or from your mouth to my ear.
00:13:22 ►
That’s the law for humans to communicate with each other
00:13:27 ►
and to make it meaningful.
00:13:30 ►
Yeah, that’s the best advice for a society right now.
00:13:33 ►
Listen to your elders.
00:13:36 ►
Yeah, ask the question.
00:13:39 ►
You know, a lot of people have the answer,
00:13:41 ►
and this is what I keep telling a lot of people.
00:13:45 ►
They find out that I knew something all along.
00:13:48 ►
Well, why didn’t you tell me?
00:13:49 ►
Well, because it’s not polite to give the answer before the question is asked.
00:13:57 ►
And people need to ask the questions because there are people with answers.
00:14:01 ►
And without, it’s spiritual law.
00:14:04 ►
We don’t divulge anything
00:14:06 ►
until the right question
00:14:07 ►
is answered, asked.
00:14:10 ►
We can’t,
00:14:11 ►
it won’t make any sense.
00:14:14 ►
And there’s a lot of people
00:14:15 ►
here to help, you know.
00:14:18 ►
But you’ve got to ask
00:14:19 ►
the right questions
00:14:20 ►
in a respectful way.
00:14:23 ►
So what was your story
00:14:24 ►
before you were here?
00:14:27 ►
I was a sergeant at arms for Northwest Veterans Motorcycle Association, the only female that
00:14:40 ►
held an office for an all-combat veteran. I never served in the military,
00:14:46 ►
but I’ve been in the 500-year resistance.
00:14:52 ►
I was born into the 500-year resistance,
00:14:57 ►
European contact,
00:14:59 ►
and I’m recognized by a lot of combat veterans and Vietnam veterans.
00:15:09 ►
I’ve been a chaplain for them for 30-some years.
00:15:19 ►
Gunpacking, Harley riding, I built it myself, a real biker.
00:15:25 ►
That’s what I was before.
00:15:28 ►
Can you tell me about your last bike, the one you’re talking about?
00:15:33 ►
Yes, it was a very special motorcycle.
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It belonged to a close friend of mine who was killed by a drunk driver.
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He had been in two worldwide clubs,
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and it was his very first motorcycle.
00:15:49 ►
It was a 55 panhead with a shovelhead top end.
00:15:55 ►
It was a beautiful, beautiful chopper.
00:16:01 ►
A lot of men couldn’t handle that bike.
00:16:04 ►
I’ll have to send you a picture of it.
00:16:05 ►
But it was a beast.
00:16:08 ►
And my husband and I rebuilt it in our living room after I got it.
00:16:16 ►
I built it to specs that I had made when I was nine years old
00:16:19 ►
because my older brothers were in another,
00:16:24 ►
they were in an outlaw motorcycle club.
00:16:27 ►
We were all, I called us youth kids.
00:16:29 ►
We were Indian children who were fostered,
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and there were 13 of us that 12 older boys from different reservations than me
00:16:38 ►
were being fostered by my grandmother.
00:16:41 ►
And they became Hell’s Angels and got into trouble and went to jail and opted out
00:16:49 ►
into the Marine Corps in Vietnam. And by the time I was nine years old, they had been killed in
00:16:55 ►
combat. So I was kind of a messed up kid. And I had friends of theirs that, like this friend who just passed away, he was a Navy SEAL in Vietnam.
00:17:06 ►
He was in an outlaw club in Portland, and he came and told me that,
00:17:11 ►
you ever look for a way out and you want to come to Portland, you know, I’ll look out for you.
00:17:15 ►
And, you know, and I thought, what the hell does some white guy want to help me for?
00:17:20 ►
You know, I, you know, one guy, you know, is that all?
00:17:25 ►
You know, so I moved to Portland, and I was real proficient with a gun,
00:17:34 ►
as most, you know, young Indian women from the river are.
00:17:39 ►
So I got to pal around with some real American heroes and learn from some of the best of the best, Navy SEALs, Air Commandos, Commandos.
00:17:53 ►
I’ve had a gambit of people who have watched over me to get me to the point where I’m at.
00:18:01 ►
And so what was it like to go from that life and then back to finding the medicine?
00:18:09 ►
I really didn’t want to do it.
00:18:11 ►
I’ve known from a very young age
00:18:14 ►
I was going to work in medicine somehow,
00:18:19 ►
and that’s why I became a biker
00:18:22 ►
because some people, when they have these callings
00:18:26 ►
they suppress it with alcohol
00:18:27 ►
or you know a way of living
00:18:29 ►
my suppression
00:18:31 ►
for that calling to the medicine
00:18:34 ►
was turning into this crazy
00:18:36 ►
biker person
00:18:37 ►
I can’t talk about some of the things
00:18:42 ►
I did because there’s you know
00:18:44 ►
statute of limitations and all.
00:18:48 ►
But I was not willing to, I wasn’t willing to do this.
00:18:56 ►
And I went to a Sundance in McDermott, Nevada.
00:19:09 ►
And it was a real long 20-some day ceremonies.
00:19:15 ►
And I had a four-and-a-half hour seizure during the ceremony.
00:19:26 ►
And by all the witnesses at the ceremony. I had a spiritual smackdown.
00:19:30 ►
I was told what to do, and by God, I’m doing it.
00:19:34 ►
I sold my motorcycle.
00:19:40 ►
I uprooted my life in Portland.
00:19:49 ►
My husband and I moved out to the wilderness at all costs. I did what the medicine told me to do as soon as it told me to do it that way. I didn’t know it was
00:19:53 ►
like that, but okay.
00:19:55 ►
Much more direct message.
00:19:57 ►
Yeah.
00:20:02 ►
Yeah, it is something I seem to hear from the plant medicines.
00:20:06 ►
People do them for the first time and they just wake up with green eyes.
00:20:09 ►
And they’re like, they remember, nature matters.
00:20:12 ►
And I think I hear about that in New York with the ayahuasca scene.
00:20:16 ►
Somebody does it in the yoga studio for the first time because that’s the easiest thing.
00:20:20 ►
And then they’re like, okay, no, now I’m going to drive out to Connecticut for this.
00:20:23 ►
Now I need to be close to nature.
00:20:24 ►
And okay, now I’m going to fly to Peru for this because I want to be in the jungle.
00:20:28 ►
And the plant does call out to people and remind us that nature is there.
00:20:34 ►
And you hear it, you know, such a consistent message from all these different groups and circles and ways of taking the medicine.
00:20:42 ►
It is.
00:20:43 ►
And I see that same message a lot.
00:20:49 ►
But I see human beings
00:20:52 ►
dropping off where it’s convenient for them.
00:20:56 ►
See, the plants are telling you
00:20:57 ►
to live that way,
00:20:59 ►
not go there when it’s convenient for you.
00:21:03 ►
Nature needs you to be that all the time, not when it’s just convenient for you.
00:21:12 ►
They’re dropping the message where it’s convenient for them.
00:21:18 ►
We didn’t drop the message where it was convenient for us.
00:21:21 ►
We were homeless for two weeks.
00:21:21 ►
it was convenient for us.
00:21:22 ►
We were homeless for two weeks.
00:21:26 ►
We had a lot of money in our pockets and everything. But, I mean, for us to get where the medicine told us to get,
00:21:32 ►
it’s not always easy.
00:21:35 ►
And if you listen to the message and follow through,
00:21:38 ►
then you’re doing what you were put here to do.
00:21:41 ►
Yeah.
00:21:42 ►
That’s the most direct message you can get.
00:21:44 ►
Hard reality.
00:21:45 ►
It sucks, you know, but human beings suck worse because we don’t take our proper place
00:21:51 ►
in nature.
00:21:52 ►
And it’s because of our actions that our environment and even the welfare of animals and even we We’ve already gone beyond poison to planet enough to where human life may not be sustainable here.
00:22:12 ►
We may have already done that.
00:22:14 ►
We just don’t know it yet.
00:22:15 ►
I mean, humans need to, you know, pull their head out of their ass.
00:22:22 ►
You know, quit being all about me.
00:22:24 ►
Listen to the message, the whole message
00:22:26 ►
not what’s just convenient
00:22:27 ►
what was your
00:22:28 ►
something to recommend
00:22:31 ►
for people to practice
00:22:34 ►
each day to try to remember
00:22:36 ►
the first thing I would say
00:22:40 ►
is that
00:22:42 ►
spark of life that started your growth in the womb
00:22:44 ►
how many of you even say
00:22:47 ►
boo to it? It’s still there. That spark of life is the spirit energy of all your ancestors from
00:22:57 ►
the beginning of time. And if you ask that spark of life, it will help you evolve.
00:23:07 ►
You acknowledge it, it will acknowledge you.
00:23:10 ►
If you ignore it, it’s going to ignore you.
00:23:13 ►
This is your own nature going in on itself.
00:23:22 ►
Natural law is telling us we have to become closer to Earth to get the message. You know, we carry the answer to everything.
00:23:29 ►
I mean, you grew your eyes and your hair
00:23:33 ►
and you even knew what color to make them.
00:23:36 ►
Who isn’t there telling you that?
00:23:40 ►
You know, we have the answer to everything, each one of us.
00:23:44 ►
And it’s getting to that without our ego and without what we have expectations of what we should be viewed as by other human beings.
00:23:53 ►
We need to get past that.
00:23:55 ►
We need to do what we need to do here, what Earth is asking us to do, just like it asked you to grow your hair that way.
00:24:02 ►
And you did.
00:24:04 ►
We need to do just that.
00:24:07 ►
And you’ve said peyote is particularly good for stripping through all of that layering and bullshinging straight to the heart of the matter without no holds barred.
00:24:19 ►
Oh, yeah.
00:24:20 ►
You, oh, yeah.
00:24:55 ►
Oh, yeah. If you’ve opted to go that route, then you, your psyche, everything, all the way back to your first ancestor.
00:24:59 ►
At this dosage, it goes all the way back to your spark of life.
00:25:03 ►
It strips all that away. So you have access to all this information back to the beginning.
00:25:10 ►
How do you prepare for something that deep, an experience that wide?
00:25:20 ►
Really, you need to do a whole lot of soul searching and be truthful with yourself about why it is that you want to do this.
00:25:31 ►
Is it for something egotistical?
00:25:35 ►
Because this isn’t going to make your job or whatever you do for work better.
00:25:40 ►
It’s only going to make you better at where you already are.
00:25:44 ►
Everything that you are, it’s not going to help your work. It’s not going to make you better at where you already are. Everything that you are, it’s not going to help your work.
00:25:47 ►
It’s not going to help anything.
00:25:49 ►
It’s all about nature and all about your spirituality.
00:25:53 ►
Nothing about your human part.
00:25:55 ►
This is your spirituality, your being.
00:25:59 ►
If you’re serious about stepping up with all your ancestors, because basically that’s what
00:26:09 ►
you do when you take the sacrament.
00:26:11 ►
You step up with all your ancestors and volunteer to uphold the laws that they handed you at
00:26:18 ►
the very beginning of time, because there are laws.
00:26:23 ►
And if you’re willing to stand up for nature, because that’s what this medicine will do.
00:26:30 ►
You become the protector of this medicine and the protector of this understanding
00:26:35 ►
and the protector of your ancestors all the way back to the beginning of time
00:26:38 ►
and everything that’s attacked them and will attack you and your future generations to come.
00:26:45 ►
You’re paving a spiritual way.
00:26:50 ►
You know, you’re clearing up the past.
00:26:54 ►
You’re straightening out the future.
00:26:56 ►
I mean, there’s no downside to this really except for a lot of discomfort.
00:27:01 ►
And you have an obligation because when you make an obligation to natural law and to nature
00:27:07 ►
you can’t decide ten days later well this is too hard
00:27:11 ►
you know you can’t do that
00:27:15 ►
a lot of soul searching if you feel you know because I know
00:27:19 ►
there are people out there that will hear this and they’ll say that’s exactly what I was
00:27:24 ►
thinking you know this’s exactly what I was thinking. You know,
00:27:25 ►
this is exactly what humanity needs.
00:27:29 ►
And those,
00:27:30 ►
that’s how you prepare.
00:27:32 ►
Wow.
00:27:33 ►
Yeah.
00:27:34 ►
And thank you for preparing the way and getting this as something that’s
00:27:38 ►
legal sacrament under federal law.
00:27:41 ►
I mean,
00:27:41 ►
that’s just,
00:27:42 ►
that’s wild.
00:27:43 ►
I’ve heard,
00:27:44 ►
uh,
00:27:44 ►
you know,
00:27:46 ►
yeah, this is tax deductible. I feel a lot like the, you know, mouse in charge of the cheese ordeal, you know?
00:27:55 ►
But it’s, you know, I feel it’s a, you know, a really great step in the right direction for humanity to make this available this way
00:28:05 ►
and to make indigenous knowledge that is thousands of years old available today.
00:28:13 ►
Only by oral tradition.
00:28:15 ►
That’s the only way.
00:28:19 ►
Do you have any plans for the future you feel like sharing?
00:28:23 ►
have any plans for the future you feel like sharing?
00:28:28 ►
We’re building on our, we have a little 25 acres in the Wainema
00:28:31 ►
National Forest and we back up to open range
00:28:36 ►
in 2 million acres. So we have,
00:28:39 ►
you know, we’ve just been here two years and everything
00:28:43 ►
that my husband and I have done so far with this church has come out of our own retirement, Social Security, and VA compensation.
00:28:53 ►
And the seed money was that my treasured 55 Harley, so that was the seed for this whole thing wow um so we work on that’s what we’ve
00:29:10 ►
been working on and you know we get a little donations here and there but we we we want to
00:29:16 ►
build a uh like outdoor kitchen because we have campsites and I’m planning on building some you
00:29:23 ►
know like hunter cabins and sites where people
00:29:26 ►
can just come and, you know, camp.
00:29:28 ►
And you don’t necessarily have to do peyote to come here.
00:29:33 ►
You know, you can come here just, you know, to learn, you know.
00:29:38 ►
So we’re going to, we want to put together some areas where people could camp and come
00:29:43 ►
and visit with some of the people who live here
00:29:45 ►
or, you know, get more information or, you know, learn how to get ready for, you know, the different medicines.
00:29:51 ►
There’s, you know, there’s different cactuses and other psychedelic substances that we use here on the property.
00:30:02 ►
And there’s ways that people can come and prepare for that without doing it.
00:30:08 ►
I really encourage people to do that, do the research, come here,
00:30:14 ►
find out what it’s about first before you run in and run through the door
00:30:20 ►
and think you’re going to get psychedelic-ed up right away.
00:30:24 ►
You’re going to see things, you’re going to get you know psychedelic up right away you’re going to see things
00:30:25 ►
screaming mad Indian
00:30:27 ►
but you know respectfully
00:30:32 ►
you know
00:30:32 ►
we’re making it open to you know
00:30:35 ►
that type of thing and
00:30:39 ►
we’re actually
00:30:41 ►
I have to say this now that I said we’re open
00:30:44 ►
but we’re actually closed to the public.
00:30:46 ►
We work on referrals.
00:30:52 ►
Say, you know, people that we know in the community that, you know, we’ll work on referrals.
00:30:58 ►
We don’t advertise.
00:30:59 ►
This is the biggest advertising I’ve done.
00:31:02 ►
But we do.
00:31:04 ►
We are open for referrals.
00:31:07 ►
Yeah.
00:31:08 ►
And just coming out to a place
00:31:09 ►
with this much nature,
00:31:12 ►
it’s beautiful.
00:31:13 ►
It does change everything,
00:31:15 ►
just to be this far away.
00:31:17 ►
And it’s easy for us city dwellers
00:31:19 ►
to forget how good it is to come out
00:31:21 ►
and just be away from all the noise.
00:31:24 ►
That’s a drug in itself. Yeah. Yeah, it is to come out and just be away from all the noise. That’s a drug in itself.
00:31:27 ►
Yeah.
00:31:27 ►
Yeah, it is.
00:31:28 ►
Then natural energy.
00:31:30 ►
When you feel more, when you feel energy from the earth and the trees,
00:31:35 ►
and then you go to the city,
00:31:37 ►
it takes me a long time to adjust to being around people.
00:31:40 ►
I can’t.
00:31:42 ►
The imbalance of energy is just, I can’t, from being out here, every
00:31:48 ►
imbalance is, you know, the big sore thumb to me. You know, I just need to avoid people.
00:31:57 ►
Yeah, I know the feeling.
00:32:00 ►
But I am going to go to the, I did go to that Ashland Psychedelic Conference and stay for – I go the day before and stay until the after party and whatnot.
00:32:13 ►
But that’s really testy for me.
00:32:18 ►
I always know where the exits are.
00:32:30 ►
always know where the exits are. What was the history of peyote and the contact with the European civilizations? Or what part would it be most helpful to highlight, perhaps?
00:32:37 ►
Well, the plant itself. The plant itself stretched from Mexico all the way up into Canada.
00:32:47 ►
It’s a spiritual plant.
00:32:50 ►
When we started having European contact maybe 400 years ago, the plant started receding.
00:32:59 ►
It’s now receded down to Texas and Mexico.
00:33:09 ►
The plant is spiritual.
00:33:11 ►
It was put here for the people.
00:33:13 ►
It’s protected itself, and now it’s down to this little bit that’s left,
00:33:18 ►
and now it’s depending on some of us people to protect it.
00:33:31 ►
us people to protect it. The plant itself is one of our main teachers for spirituality. can sit with the creator
00:33:45 ►
of everything.
00:33:50 ►
That’s the history
00:33:52 ►
of the peyote
00:33:53 ►
for me.
00:33:56 ►
People have different,
00:33:57 ►
like I said, the oral
00:34:00 ►
history of it. This is what
00:34:01 ►
the core
00:34:03 ►
value of the peyote cult
00:34:07 ►
as opposed to the Native American church is
00:34:11 ►
to me. We go beyond the European contact,
00:34:17 ►
go back to the first laws,
00:34:21 ►
and that is, there’s
00:34:23 ►
nothing but us
00:34:25 ►
and the creator to talk
00:34:27 ►
spiritually
00:34:29 ►
other human beings
00:34:33 ►
you’ve got just other human beings
00:34:35 ►
to talk about spirituality
00:34:37 ►
you know
00:34:38 ►
it’s always been a
00:34:39 ►
for indigenous people it’s always been a
00:34:42 ►
you know
00:34:43 ►
I went to Catholic school and I kind of looked at, you know, how Catholics believe in Christianity.
00:34:51 ►
And I kind of twisted my head a little bit.
00:34:54 ►
But, you know, if that’s all that is recollected to the soul of some of these human beings who are Christian,
00:35:08 ►
there’s something way deeper than all of that, I can tell you now.
00:35:13 ►
Your faith is something way deeper than just that.
00:35:17 ►
All of that is almost like Christianity kind of reminds me of a shaking,
00:35:25 ►
a kind of reminder of what you’re supposed to be as a human being,
00:35:31 ►
not how to make money from other human beings.
00:35:35 ►
I get a little bit frustrated sometimes with that,
00:35:41 ►
but there are a lot of good you know in all in all faiths
00:35:46 ►
a very friendly young veteran has been sitting listening to this interview the entire time
00:35:57 ►
and we get to hear a little bit more of his story and how he got to know Mary Porter. Do you want to talk about how you got involved?
00:36:08 ►
How did I get involved with the peyote?
00:36:10 ►
Started off as a veteran, just a typical American.
00:36:14 ►
Tried to make it in society and rebelled against it all my whole life
00:36:18 ►
and ended up being an outlaw-type loner
00:36:21 ►
and suffered with addiction from alcohol and whatnot.
00:36:27 ►
So moved out to Oregon where weed’s legal and that was my first goal and just got on
00:36:36 ►
the cannabis and got myself sober.
00:36:41 ►
So yeah, you know, just moved out here to get out to the outdoors uh smoke weed and just enjoy life
00:36:48 ►
you know i knew everything was all bullshit so i just kind of took my health care and to my own
00:36:54 ►
hands and um so with that i’ve done mushrooms at a young age and stuff and never really dabbled in psychedelics but um i started searching you know uh i was at
00:37:08 ►
skate park one day and ran across some kid i had some acid and i had some girl scout that we grew
00:37:14 ►
and uh marijuana and uh traded them and that sparked the interest you know and uh so when i
00:37:24 ►
was searching um you know there’s a lot of bullshit
00:37:26 ►
out there I listen to everyone you know I’ve heard everyone’s take on their psychedelics and
00:37:31 ►
what it is and this that and the other but I know the truth you know I did mushrooms when I was 14
00:37:36 ►
my first time uh out in nature picked to myself and I got I got the gist right away that you know this earth is a living thing
00:37:46 ►
you know it’s an organism it’s our creator you know and um I don’t I didn’t hear anyone talking
00:37:52 ►
about that until I heard an Indian woman it was a Mary Porter and so I heard her on YouTube and I
00:37:59 ►
just listened to her over and over because it’s finally someone telling the truth you know someone
00:38:04 ►
straight up this is what it is and because the what i was searching for is my spirituality you
00:38:09 ►
know i didn’t know it but that’s what i was searching for there’s something else you know
00:38:13 ►
i’m not into jesus i’m in every religion by the way not not by choice but like i said typical
00:38:20 ►
american you’ve been to it all you know i’m uh i got my dna done so i’m quarter jewish um german french irish um black well i say black african sorry but uh you know the whole
00:38:35 ►
thing but um you know i’ve been to every religion growing up and all that so you know just guarded
00:38:40 ►
and that’s what i was searching for my spirituality and in these psychedelics you know not one person can stand up and and to me and look me in the eye and tell me that they’re connected
00:38:51 ►
or they can preach anything to me about spirituality not one of them but she can she knows what she’s
00:38:57 ►
talking about she’s an indigenous woman and she was actually just telling me the truth that i never
00:39:01 ►
had anyone care before you know so um we we work by referral, but there’s ways to reach out to people.
00:39:09 ►
You know, there was nothing.
00:39:10 ►
I couldn’t find anything on them, but I found them.
00:39:13 ►
You know, and as soon as I made contact, I came out here as soon as possible.
00:39:17 ►
I didn’t even really let them know.
00:39:18 ►
I just drove out, and I didn’t know what to expect.
00:39:23 ►
You know, I knew that they were bikers. bikers and been around, you know, some pretty rough
00:39:27 ►
people.
00:39:27 ►
So I didn’t, I didn’t know if I was gonna be shot or if I was gonna have to camp outside
00:39:31 ►
or I didn’t know if there’s gonna be people here preaching the Jesus.
00:39:34 ►
I didn’t know what to expect, you know?
00:39:37 ►
And, um, I get out here and, uh, I, I, I see Larry and then I see this little Indian woman
00:39:42 ►
coming out of a thing.
00:39:44 ►
I didn’t, I’d coming out of a thing.
00:39:46 ►
I didn’t I never seen a sweat lodge.
00:39:49 ►
So Mary’s coming out of the sweat lodge.
00:39:54 ►
And, you know, she just had a smile on her face and she’s happy to see me.
00:40:00 ►
So you came and I didn’t I didn’t think I was going to be I didn’t think people are going to be happy to see me or anything.
00:40:02 ►
And, you know, that’s where it started.
00:40:09 ►
You know, a lot of it’s real personal for me. And I’t, I don’t want to put all my personal stuff out there, but that’s, that’s how I got involved. How did the first experiences leave their impression on you? Oh yeah. Yeah. That’s,
00:40:19 ►
that’s great. Um, well first, you know, before I even dove into any of the psychedelics or anything, you know, I just met with Mary and Larry and they’re just kind of I hung out with them for a couple of days.
00:40:31 ►
You know, I just got out here and I smoke cannabis a lot, a lot. And they do, too, which is great.
00:40:39 ►
So, you know, we’re just smoking weed and they’re just kind of wondering what my intent was, you know, my background.
00:40:45 ►
And, you know, Mary just started kind of teaching me right away, started doing some sweats.
00:40:51 ►
You know, I’m just like a little kid.
00:40:53 ►
You know, I’m all excited about learning about this stuff and getting back out to nature and everything.
00:40:56 ►
And just started talking with her and sweat for the first time and all that.
00:41:02 ►
I sweat for the first time and all that.
00:41:08 ►
So before I even did anything, I knew how to pray.
00:41:12 ►
And I knew how to go into this experience in just a couple of days, you know.
00:41:13 ►
It really helped a lot.
00:41:18 ►
So the first thing I did was the San Pedro cactus, which is the male version.
00:41:22 ►
You got the peyote, which is the female, and then the San Pedro.
00:41:28 ►
And Marriott ministers 90 grams grams which apparently is a lot I didn’t even pay attention to how much it was I thought I was only taking 20 but just
00:41:33 ►
found out the other day it’s 90 grams of San Pedro and so that’s another thing you know there’s there’s
00:41:40 ►
no bullshit in here just you’re gonna get there all the way the first time and go from there, you know.
00:41:48 ►
So she gave me 90 grams of San Pedro.
00:41:52 ►
And what I did, though, is I had it all set up.
00:41:56 ►
I woke up at 3 o’clock in the morning, got my fire going,
00:41:59 ►
and, you know, was going to have a good, get the medicine in early
00:42:03 ►
and then sweat and then start the day. You know, just was going to have a good, get the medicine in early and then sweat and then start the day.
00:42:05 ►
You know, just naturally coming to this stuff.
00:42:07 ►
But Mary was just like so happy that that’s how I was naturally going to do it.
00:42:12 ►
And so I took the San Pedro and I was like about an hour later, that’s not enough.
00:42:20 ►
You know, looking at Mary and she’s looking at me cross-eyed and I’m just like, no, I feel fine.
00:42:24 ►
Like, I’m not going to throw up.
00:42:25 ►
I’m fine.
00:42:26 ►
She gave me a whole nother 90 grams.
00:42:29 ►
Drank it all.
00:42:32 ►
Wow.
00:42:33 ►
And then went into the sweat, started sweating for a little bit, and I was like, Mary, I’m going to throw up.
00:42:41 ►
And, you know, went out and got it all out and there’s a you know i know they’re coming out
00:42:47 ►
with new studies and everything we’re understanding gut health and probiotics and all this stuff and
00:42:51 ►
i’m telling you you know getting your gut health get your gut out i mean that’s the san pedro
00:42:56 ►
really it’s sticky it’s sticky stuff and i puked everything out um It came out my pores, the sweat, cleared all my mucus out, everything.
00:43:09 ►
Just puke, puke, puke.
00:43:11 ►
Real good.
00:43:12 ►
I mean, it sucks.
00:43:12 ►
We dread it.
00:43:13 ►
We all hate puking, but guess what?
00:43:14 ►
We’ve all done it a million times, and we’ve all done it because we’ve inflicted it on ourselves most of the time.
00:43:20 ►
So you can get away with puking.
00:43:21 ►
Trust me, it’s not that bad.
00:43:23 ►
But after, i went right into
00:43:25 ►
the sweat and it all came out you know right into the sweat lodge right where you’re praying you
00:43:30 ►
know and this is how it’s described to me by mary that the sweat lodge it is the womb you’re taking
00:43:37 ►
you into the womb the fire is connected to the umbilical cord going into the womb and when you’re
00:43:43 ►
in there you really do feel you’re in the womb
00:43:47 ►
you have the rocks in front of you you can you can speak directly to the creator right there
00:43:52 ►
and so my first time on san pedro the sweat coming out of me all of it coming out of me
00:43:59 ►
and this is on veterans day by the way i didn’t plan it and it ended up being on veterans day
00:44:03 ►
first day yeah
00:44:05 ►
and it’s just all coming out of me and and you know no one’s ever i’ve been to all the va’s
00:44:10 ►
treatment and all this stuff and no one’s ever talked to me about ptsd in an indigenous way
00:44:14 ►
that all these indian warriors they’ve dealt with ptsd and all this their whole life you know and
00:44:21 ►
they know how to how how to heal this and so yeah my first time and just it just
00:44:28 ►
all started coming out the san pedro was uh really strong especially as much as i drank
00:44:32 ►
and uh but instantly right then was when i was feeling good after the puke and then bam it just
00:44:40 ►
started and uh i didn’t i didn’t want to get out of that sweat lodge but uh after after
00:44:45 ►
you know my sweat was over um took a good shower and went out into the wilderness and holy shit
00:44:52 ►
that’s another humbling thing we’re you know we’re we’re the wild west out here but we’re really
00:44:57 ►
on you know we have a wilderness forest and it’s it’s the wild we got cougars we got bobcats um we got elk we got uh mule deer the
00:45:08 ►
whole nine and it’s it’s not just like a rare sighting they’re everywhere everywhere and so um
00:45:15 ►
it’s uh breakfast time in the forest and i’m walking out there on san pedro in my pajamas
00:45:21 ►
like a little white boy and uh yeah i get out to the forest i don’t know nothing about
00:45:28 ►
the forest you know it’s my first time meeting mary and i thought i knew how to walk in the
00:45:31 ►
forest and you know typically it’s me walking around with the twinkie in my hand you know and
00:45:36 ►
you realize real quick i was at lunch or breakfast out there and uh i get out there and so this is
00:45:42 ►
not a good lesson for people to know um your spirit walk I I I put
00:45:47 ►
two and two together in my mind spirit walk I thought you’re supposed to walk you know so I
00:45:54 ►
took I took the cactus and I went for my walk me man me went for a walk yeah it doesn’t work you’re
00:46:01 ►
not that’s not what it means it means you lie down and your spirit walks out of your body so i tried to walk and i’ve tried to walk to the forest
00:46:10 ►
and i just had to lie down and i just collapsed down and i felt great when i got on the ground
00:46:15 ►
and uh then i just started hearing all the wildlife everywhere in the foxes especially
00:46:21 ►
they’re just running around and you know know, it’s a homeowner experience.
00:46:25 ►
When you’re in that state and your first time back out in the wilderness
00:46:31 ►
and you’ve been searching, you’re there.
00:46:36 ►
You’re finally there.
00:46:37 ►
And guess what?
00:46:38 ►
You’re a little bitch.
00:46:41 ►
You’re a little bitch.
00:46:43 ►
And you need to not be a little bitch anymore.
00:46:45 ►
That’s what I get out of this. You know what I mean? I’m working on this stuff.
00:46:48 ►
So I go out in the forest now and I feel good,
00:46:50 ►
but this spirit was very humbling for me, you know,
00:46:55 ►
and to recognize all that I came back at, you know, you tell Barry,
00:46:58 ►
I was like a little girl out there at the hell, you know? So, you know,
00:47:02 ►
there’s a lot more to it, but just the initial part of it and that’s
00:47:05 ►
that’s the gist of it too you’re not gonna have anyone hanging over you telling you what to do
00:47:10 ►
whatever you know even the sweat lodge you know i’d i’d jump in all this stuff on my own accord
00:47:14 ►
and that’s what mary would let you do you know that’s what this is all about so she’s she’s like
00:47:20 ►
hey if you want to take the cactus and i’ll just leave you out in the wilderness, see you.
00:47:27 ►
And that’s a good thing to know.
00:47:31 ►
You really come to this all one-on-one with the creator.
00:47:35 ►
Perfect. Thank you so much for sharing.
00:47:36 ►
That’s beautiful.
00:47:46 ►
Here’s one book for me for the recommended reading list.
00:47:48 ►
It’s called Black Elk Speaks.
00:47:55 ►
I suspect it’s probably the only book written in the last century that might go down in history as one of the world’s great holy books.
00:48:04 ►
It’s from 1932 when an American poet named John Neihardt transcribed the story of the Lakota medicine man Black Elk. At age 13, Black Elk had also been
00:48:08 ►
part of the Battle of the Little Bighorn, and in 1890 he survived the massacre of Wounded Knee.
00:48:14 ►
Thinking about Black Elk Speaks made me reach out to Mary and see if she had anything recommended
00:48:19 ►
for people for diving deeper. And here’s her response. She says,
00:48:22 ►
And here’s her response.
00:48:45 ►
She says, Frank Fool’s Crow. His writings were the aftermath of his life.
00:48:48 ►
He lived those things and chose to write them down at the end.
00:48:52 ►
I often feel bad that I was so young and green when I had the years with Frank.
00:48:54 ►
I was riding a white Harley with flames
00:48:57 ►
and had a chip on my shoulder the size of South Dakota.
00:49:01 ►
Before he passed away, we talked about my work for the future.
00:49:05 ►
I did say I would do it.
00:49:07 ►
I just didn’t say when.
00:49:09 ►
He smiled and said,
00:49:11 ►
By the letter of the law, you’ll give them hell, right?
00:49:17 ►
So, she says, Frank Fool’s Crow and Luther Standing Bear’s books are a real good reference.
00:49:23 ►
By the way, for all you bibliomancers out there, if you’re interested in Luther Standing Bear’s books are a real good reference. By the way, for all you bibliomancers out there,
00:49:26 ►
if you’re interested in Luther Standing Bear’s works, his books have recently been reissued by
00:49:30 ►
Bison Books in some really lovely editions. And so we’ll put the titles of all these books in the
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links to music in the show notes at the end. Thanks again for listening to Symposia on the
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Psychedelic Salon 2.0.
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Do us a favor.
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Go to iTunes or Stitcher and leave a rating or review.
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Tell your friends.
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That’s how you can really help us out.
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Thanks to Matt Payne who engineered the sound,
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Joey Witt for the intro music,
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California Smile for the outro music,
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and Brian Norman who produced the show