Program Notes

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Guest speaker: Alicia Danforth

Today we feature the 2015 Palenque Norte Lecture by Dr. Alicia Danforth. In her talk, plus a question and answer session, Alicia describes some of the difficulties that a professional woman researcher may encounter in the area of sexism at work. She also discusses what has been called “the 800 pound gorilla in the room”, the psychedelic jerk. At the end of this podcast, Lorenzo explains why he raised the price of the paperback copy of his novel to $350.

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Transcript

00:00:00

Greetings from cyberdelic space.

00:00:20

This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.

00:00:24

This is Lorenzo and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.

00:00:32

And today I’m going to play another of the 2015 Palenque Norte lectures that were delivered during the Burning Man Festival.

00:00:37

Our featured speaker is the good friend of my wife and I, Dr. Alicia Danforth,

00:00:46

who you may remember is the co-investigator with Dr. Charlie Grobe and who are studying the potential that MDMA may have to lessen some of the social anxiety associated with autism. Now I know that a lot of our fellow

00:00:52

slaughters are like I once was, out there at the end of the line with hardly a single person they

00:00:58

can get together with to talk about psychedelics. And I know how lonely it can get when you feel

00:01:03

that you are the only person in your group who actually understands what psychedelics are all about.

00:01:09

So this talk may come as somewhat of a surprise to you, because in this talk, Alicia takes

00:01:15

on the 800-pound gorilla in the room, the psychedelic jerk.

00:01:21

You see, when you’re all alone out there, it never dawns on you that if you got 20 or 30 like-minded psychedelic aficionados together,

00:01:30

that one of them could turn out to be as much of a jerk as that guy at work who bothers you so much.

00:01:35

You wouldn’t think that psychedelic people would be like that,

00:01:39

but the truth is that just because we are positive about the potential that psychedelics provide for us humans,

00:01:45

we are nonetheless still very much human. And like money, psychedelics, without a lot of work

00:01:52

on your part, will only make you more of what you already are. And if someone was a jerk before,

00:01:58

well, they can easily become a psychedelic jerk. Now, Alicia, being a young professional woman, is going to be much

00:02:06

kinder about these power freaks, but being a much older person, I am more free to talk about these

00:02:13

people in less gentle terms. Granted, some of our community leaders can get a little pushy and

00:02:19

over-inflated about themselves from time to time. But there’s another category of psychedelic jerk that, well, you’ve really got to look out for.

00:02:28

And that is what I very unprofessionally call a nutjob, a wacko, a seriously fucked up person.

00:02:36

And believe me, if you are ever fortunate enough to become involved in a large psychedelic community,

00:02:42

you’re going to come into contact with one or two of these people as well.

00:02:46

And speaking from experience, the best thing that I’ve found to do,

00:02:50

should one of these freaks ever begin stalking you,

00:02:53

is to completely ignore them.

00:02:55

For you, this person does not exist.

00:02:58

Don’t acknowledge them in any way,

00:03:00

and eventually they’ll find somebody else to put their crazy on.

00:03:04

Anyway, let’s return to the 2015 Burning Man Festival

00:03:08

where Alicia Danforth has just begun delivering her Palenque Norte lecture.

00:03:14

A place for us to come together and talk about new ideas

00:03:18

and exchange information with each other.

00:03:22

I am going way out on a limb.

00:03:24

This is probably my biggest Burning Man challenge.

00:03:28

I am very accustomed to working with lots of data and PowerPoints

00:03:33

and all sorts of security blankets when I give talks.

00:03:37

And Palenque Norte is really all about giving speakers an opportunity

00:03:41

to try out new material and speak from the heart.

00:03:44

So this is unfamiliar territory for me,

00:03:47

but there is something that’s been weighing on my mind and my heart for several years now,

00:03:53

and I thought I want to draw power and strength from my community

00:03:58

to help address some issues that have been very persistent for a couple of years.

00:04:05

The title of the talk suggests that I’m going to be talking about power.

00:04:11

And I’m hoping that this talk will be somewhat of an alchemical process where I start by

00:04:16

talking about something kind of negative, but I hope together we will explore some of

00:04:22

these topics and come out with something solution-oriented

00:04:25

and more positive to help us move towards healthier communities

00:04:29

and healthier personal relationships with psychedelics.

00:04:34

So as John mentioned, I’m a researcher.

00:04:38

I’ve worked with psilocybin and MDMA-assisted therapy in research settings.

00:04:43

For the same amount of time, I’ve also worked in harm reduction,

00:04:47

and I’ve also been part of other communities that accept the use of psychedelics.

00:04:55

And in addition to that, I also started a community last year in Los Angeles

00:05:01

for women who have an interest in psychedelics.

00:05:04

year in Los Angeles for women who have an interest in psychedelics.

00:05:12

And a bit to my dismay, I’ll admit I was a bit naive, in all of these settings, I did not anticipate pervasive and persistent problems with individuals who are challenged with managing

00:05:20

power.

00:05:22

This theme has come up over and over again and there are some perspectives

00:05:29

I want to share with you that I think sometimes in communities that maybe overemphasize the

00:05:35

positive there are some topics related to power that really need to be discussed if

00:05:40

our communities are going to be sustainable and healthy. So I’m going to start by sharing with you a quote

00:05:46

that really influenced me at the very beginning of my career

00:05:50

as a psychedelic researcher.

00:05:53

By chance, I stumbled across a quote.

00:05:56

It was in the Maps Bulletin,

00:05:58

and it was by Martina Hoffman, the artist.

00:06:01

And she said,

00:06:03

There are truths more fundamental and significant than the laws of

00:06:08

men intoxicated with power. And for whatever reason, that really resonated with me. I printed it out,

00:06:18

taped it up on the refrigerator, and my relationship with that quote changed over the years. In the very

00:06:23

beginning, when I was first becoming aware of the power of psychedelic medicines,

00:06:28

I really put the emphasis on the word laws.

00:06:32

I didn’t understand the scheduling system.

00:06:35

I didn’t understand the rationale, how politics could trump science

00:06:39

in terms of getting substances to individuals who are suffering.

00:06:43

So for me, it was all about these

00:06:45

laws and questioning them and challenging them and wondering, how can we change these laws?

00:06:51

Several years into working as a researcher, my relationship with that quote shifted.

00:06:58

And when I would recite it to myself, it sounded something like this.

00:07:02

There are truths more fundamental and significant than the laws of men intoxicated with power. I was very frustrated by the sexism that I encountered.

00:07:14

I wasn’t anticipating finding it in my psychedelic communities. I might have placed a bit of naive

00:07:21

hope in the feminizing power of psychedelics and it has been an ongoing

00:07:26

struggle and it continues to be but I’m seeing change in positive directions so I’m no longer

00:07:33

feeling as motivated to speak out about gender issues in psychedelic science in particular

00:07:40

there’s been a lot of progress in that regard. So now I’m really focused on this

00:07:48

issue of power. I kind of ignored the last part of the quote. This notion of being intoxicated

00:07:55

with power. What does power have to do with psychedelic medicines? I decided to take a closer

00:08:02

look at the power problem. And just kind of idly thinking it over one night

00:08:08

I did a Google search of power and psychedelics

00:08:12

and it turned up 515,000 hits

00:08:16

so I’m not the only one who’s thinking about these two themes

00:08:20

this book was published

00:08:23

Tom Schroeder’s book Ac Acid Test. You might have seen it. The

00:08:29

subtitle is LSD, Ecstasy, and the Power to Heal. What is the word power doing in this title?

00:08:47

Whose power?

00:08:50

Who holds the power?

00:08:52

What’s the source of this power?

00:08:58

Is the power in the substance itself?

00:09:04

Is the power in the substance provider?

00:09:10

Is the power found in the co-collaboration between the substance and the individual who uses it?

00:09:16

In our work, we’re really influenced by the work of Michael and Annie Mitover,

00:09:21

the husband and wife team that has been doing the MDMA-assisted

00:09:25

therapy studies for PTSD, and they place a lot of emphasis on the notion of the wise inner healer.

00:09:33

I like to believe that that’s where the power resides, in the individual working with the

00:09:39

substance to bring about healing, but I’m not sure this distinction is always clear amongst the broader

00:09:46

community. So to give you a sense of what I’m getting at here, it’s a little subtle,

00:09:53

but I want you to notice how your body responds when I read this title in two different ways.

00:10:02

So the first is as it’s written, LSD, ecstasy, and the power to heal

00:10:08

in comparison, how does this feel?

00:10:14

LSD, ecstasy, in the service of healing

00:10:19

there’s a difference

00:10:25

and when you’re not clear

00:10:26

that power to heal can be interpreted

00:10:30

in kind of a creepy way

00:10:32

I am the wizard who holds the power

00:10:35

it’s a bit like the ring in the Lord of the Rings

00:10:39

my precious

00:10:40

I’ve got the power

00:10:43

so last night Chris Pesa gave a talk My precious, I’ve got the power.

00:10:53

So last night, Chris Pessa gave a talk about how to keep our communities healthy.

00:11:02

And he talked about the fact that it’s easy to get caught up in this notion that the threats come from without the government.

00:11:04

The government’s going to stop us.

00:11:07

In my experience in the science world, that hasn’t been the government. The government’s going to stop us. In my experience in the science world,

00:11:08

that hasn’t been the case.

00:11:12

The FDA and the DEA have been quite reasonable to work with,

00:11:18

and the inner threats have been far more distracting,

00:11:22

a waste of time and resources.

00:11:25

So I want to, instead of looking without to the powers that be that might be trying to prevent us

00:11:29

from using the substances of our choice,

00:11:32

using our medicines,

00:11:34

the way we decide is best for ourselves,

00:11:37

regulatory agencies preventing us from doing science,

00:11:41

let’s look within for a moment

00:11:42

and look at some of the inner threats that might be a

00:11:47

bit more problematic. So how to recognize power problems? What are we talking about here? So I’m

00:11:53

going to ask for a show of hands. How many of you have encountered individuals who disrupt

00:12:01

communities due to their unhealthy relationships with power.

00:12:06

This is something most people in the room are familiar with.

00:12:10

So keep your hands up if you have encountered this problem

00:12:13

specific to psychedelic communities or groups

00:12:16

where there have been problems with power.

00:12:20

A few. Okay.

00:12:23

So what am I talking about here?

00:12:25

What does this look like when it shows up?

00:12:27

Seems like it might be a new topic for a lot of people in the room.

00:12:31

So often the individuals who are disruptive in our communities,

00:12:38

they often present with narcissistic or grandiose behaviors.

00:12:42

What are we talking about here?

00:12:44

I have a list of ten attributes, behaviors to look out for.

00:12:50

So they’re often extremely charming.

00:12:54

It’s very hard to believe any negative feedback

00:13:00

that someone might give you about them

00:13:02

because they’re extremely charming.

00:13:03

They make a great first impression often. They know a lot of people, but if you look closely, they often have

00:13:11

few, if any, really healthy relationships. They show excessive self-interest. They are often

00:13:20

excessively self-serving and manipulative without regret for the consequences. They’re

00:13:29

unable to accept responsibility for negative outcomes and they’ll often present with a

00:13:34

lack of empathy and they may be quick to steal credit for other people’s work. They can become

00:13:42

rageful if you ever counter them

00:13:45

this charming individual can turn on a dime

00:13:48

and suddenly present with a rage that can even be

00:13:51

frightening and they find it very difficult

00:13:54

to ever apologize

00:13:55

they’re often very controlling

00:13:58

they have a my way is the best and only way attitude

00:14:03

and they tend to isolate dissenters.

00:14:07

Many times when these sorts of problems are going on with power relationships

00:14:11

and group, the people who are being affected by it are afraid to speak up

00:14:16

because this charming individual has

00:14:18

worked the group in a way that they’re afraid of negative repercussions if they cross

00:14:24

them.

00:14:29

Ironically, they’ll often admit that they are narcissists.

00:14:30

It’s kind of surprising.

00:14:34

They won’t have a problem admitting it, and there seems to be kind of a lack of shame.

00:14:42

And another way to identify narcissists or individuals who are abusing power in our communities,

00:14:47

they often love and are drawn to other narcissists.

00:14:52

They feed the narcissistic source in the other.

00:14:56

As opposed to, you might think the dynamic would look something like this.

00:14:57

No, I’m the most special.

00:14:59

No, no, I’m the most special.

00:15:01

I’m the most important and powerful person here, but instead, the loop looks very validating.

00:15:04

Yeah, you are the best. No, you’re the best. We’re the best, and instead the loop looks very validating. Yeah, you are the

00:15:05

best. No, you’re the best. We’re the best and we’re better than all the rest. So watch for that

00:15:11

dynamic developing. And here’s the big giveaway. If none of this has really seemed familiar to you,

00:15:19

you might be aware of these individuals that everybody seems to be talking about all the time.

00:15:26

They get talked about a lot behind their backs.

00:15:30

It’s often intimidated the rest of the group members

00:15:32

into being afraid to confront them directly.

00:15:35

There’s often a lot of chatter in the background.

00:15:37

Did you hear what so-and-so did? I can’t believe he did that.

00:15:39

Did you hear what he said or she said?

00:15:41

So those are some of the telltale signs to look for if a member in your community

00:15:48

is abusing power. So what’s wrong with a little narcissism? What’s wrong with a little fame and

00:15:57

glamour? So there’s room for all types. We need our performers. We need our charismatic spokespersons, individuals

00:16:07

who inspire imagination,

00:16:12

inspire people to contribute financially

00:16:16

or in other ways to a growing psychedelic

00:16:20

community. Is psychedelic celebrity

00:16:24

a problem?

00:16:28

Inherently, no.

00:16:29

Not really.

00:16:35

So we have room for some peacocks.

00:16:38

Look at me, and I’m psychedelic-ier than now.

00:16:42

That’s okay. Okay, until it undermines scientific integrity

00:16:49

and the credibility of the record.

00:16:53

That’s one area in which it becomes problematic.

00:16:57

If someone gets so caught up in this notion

00:16:59

of being a psychedelic rock star in the limelight,

00:17:03

I’ve been flown to this fancy international conference

00:17:08

and all these people have come to see me.

00:17:10

My results from my study better be spectacular.

00:17:16

I’m famous.

00:17:17

Which, by the way, I just have to say,

00:17:19

I think no one, with the exception of maybe Timothy Leary,

00:17:24

is famous in any psychedelic community.

00:17:27

They’re well known in a very small niche community relative to the larger population.

00:17:32

So watch out for that notion of the psychedelic rock star.

00:17:38

Another instance in which it really isn’t okay is when the power is abused.

00:17:46

Individuals in psychedelic states are hyper-suggestible.

00:17:51

Dr. Charles Grobe and Marlene Del Rio actually published on this topic in the 90s,

00:17:56

if you’re curious and you want to take a deeper look at it.

00:17:59

They talked about problems of abuse and what it means when somebody who is intoxicated with power capitalizes on individuals in hyper-suggestible states and abuses power when individuals are open and vulnerable.

00:18:23

the abuses that take place in shamanic settings when the shaman doesn’t follow

00:18:26

an appropriate code of ethics and transgresses

00:18:29

often in terms of

00:18:32

committing sexual offenses but those are examples

00:18:35

of people taking advantage of hyper suggestibility

00:18:38

it’s a problem

00:18:39

a third problem and this is the one that has probably been

00:18:44

the biggest drain on me personally

00:18:46

in terms of my time and resources,

00:18:49

is individuals who are abusing power in psychedelic communities often divide them.

00:18:55

They create a very divisive presence.

00:18:58

I think intuitively they know, divided we fall.

00:19:03

If they are interested in power and control,

00:19:06

they want to sever strong bonds

00:19:08

between other individuals in the group.

00:19:12

So they have a very, you know,

00:19:13

you’re for me or against me attitude.

00:19:16

Watch for that.

00:19:17

Be mindful if that’s going on in groups

00:19:19

in which you participate.

00:19:23

They also, you know They also want to know,

00:19:27

if I can’t control you,

00:19:30

then there are going to be repercussions.

00:19:34

So those are three areas

00:19:37

where this kind of narcissistic behavior

00:19:41

can really become problematic.

00:19:44

So questions to ask yourself if you are doubting the influence of someone in close proximity

00:19:52

to you or in groups that you support or participate in.

00:19:57

When someone appears to be abusing power or making a power grab that seems somehow inappropriate,

00:20:03

what are their qualifications?

00:20:05

Are they a self-proclaimed guru or expert? Are they claiming authority that they really haven’t

00:20:11

earned? How long since their first psychedelic experience or their first really powerfully

00:20:20

transformative psychedelic experience? That’s a good thing to know, because often people will go through a period of ego inflation and expansion,

00:20:30

and some of that grandiosity is part of a normal, healthy transitional process.

00:20:37

I’ve been given a vision about how I’m going to change the world.

00:20:41

I have a mission now,

00:20:42

and there can be a sense of inflation,

00:20:46

an enhanced sense of importance, a sense of meaning and purpose, and it can be part of a normal growth process.

00:20:55

What to look out for. The warning sign is often when that language starts sounding more like,

00:21:01

I’m going to crack the code. I’m going to figure it all out. I’m going to reach God and get the

00:21:08

answer. And it’s now part of my mission to enlighten all of humanity.

00:21:15

So what is their stated motive? If they are assuming

00:21:19

a position of power and leadership, do their actions

00:21:24

match what they state as their

00:21:27

mission or their claim to power? Are they presenting

00:21:31

original work or are they rehashing the work of others and taking

00:21:36

credit for it? Is there evidence

00:21:39

of secondary motives? Is there a lot of self-aggrandizement,

00:21:44

craving for validation and recognition?

00:21:47

And a tip-off can be,

00:21:49

how do they behave in social media?

00:21:53

What are they posting?

00:21:54

What are they sharing?

00:21:55

How are they promoting themselves

00:21:57

and their claim to power?

00:21:59

And a tip-off,

00:22:00

and my apologies if I’m offending anyone in here,

00:22:03

but I’ve seen this time and time again

00:22:06

a tip off for me is always when I see a post that starts

00:22:09

I am humbled to announce

00:22:12

to me that translates to

00:22:14

you’re about to read a big brag

00:22:16

so are they involved in

00:22:22

empire building

00:22:23

are they really invested in building community?

00:22:29

Are they engaged in any form of seduction?

00:22:32

Are they trying to actually seduce you?

00:22:34

Do they want sex?

00:22:36

Do they want money?

00:22:38

Are they in it for personal gain?

00:22:42

Are they more interested in street cred?

00:22:49

Or doing the work to earn actual credibility and a last tip I have

00:22:53

to help recognize when individuals are engaging in unhappy power relationships

00:22:58

in your communities, are they grounded in a religion

00:23:02

or a commitment to another practice that will sustain them over the

00:23:07

long haul do they follow a code of ethics where’s their anchor i’m gonna just pause and ask for a

00:23:15

moment what is your relationship to power are you interested in being a rock star?

00:23:26

Is psychedelics part of that?

00:23:27

Do you want to make a big noise?

00:23:29

Do you want to be seen and heard?

00:23:36

Or are you feeling called to use your power to be of service?

00:23:40

Do you want to be a real change agent?

00:23:43

Or do you want to control people and be popular?

00:23:46

So when I look to

00:23:48

role models in terms

00:23:50

of how to manage power,

00:23:52

I think of Sasha Shulgin

00:23:54

in his tiny little

00:23:56

shed where he did his great

00:23:58

work. And I think

00:24:00

I’m reminded, friends of

00:24:02

mine were invited to visit Albert Hoffman

00:24:04

at his home outside of Basel in Switzerland.

00:24:07

And it was the most natural thing in the world for him to greet them

00:24:10

and offer them some plum schnapps from a tree that he grew on his own property.

00:24:16

He was very humble and down to earth and grounded

00:24:20

and made them feel extremely welcomed in his home.

00:24:23

and made them feel extremely welcomed in his home.

00:24:26

I think of Kat Harrison and how she’s devoted so much of her life’s energy and work

00:24:31

to being out in the field cultivating relationships with the plants

00:24:35

and how she presents her amazing body of work

00:24:40

with so much humility.

00:24:42

She’s so humble.

00:24:44

And I wonder where she gets

00:24:46

her inspiration.

00:24:49

So, meditating a little bit more

00:24:52

on this notion of the value of humility,

00:24:54

I thought to myself

00:24:55

that one place to look for role models

00:25:00

is also to the sacred

00:25:02

medicines, the plants

00:25:03

themselves.

00:25:05

Look at the kinds of plants that we revere in the psychedelic community.

00:25:10

And I know I’m focusing primarily on plant-based medicines,

00:25:14

but just roll with this for a minute.

00:25:19

Think about our medicines in the psychedelic community.

00:25:23

We have the mushroom.

00:25:26

A lot of people find mushrooms so repulsive they won’t even touch them.

00:25:29

They’re thought of as slimy and unattractive.

00:25:32

The ergot fungus that grows on rye.

00:25:36

The Bonisteriopsis copyvine.

00:25:38

You would never give it a second glance.

00:25:41

You’re strolling through the forest.

00:25:44

Salvia. It can be a little prettier sometimes.

00:25:47

The aboga plant.

00:25:49

Peyote, San Pedro, they’re not orchids and dahlias.

00:25:55

They aren’t hothouse flowers that you’d see in a big fancy flower show.

00:26:02

In terms of keeping our community healthy,

00:26:08

in terms of cultivating healthy relationships with power I like to look to the power of the mycelium

00:26:11

the largest living organism on the planet

00:26:14

is mycelium

00:26:16

this humble

00:26:20

living network that grows underground

00:26:24

unnoticed

00:26:25

until it’s ready to send up its brooding bodies

00:26:29

and share the labor

00:26:31

with the rest of the world

00:26:33

and send its spores out

00:26:37

in the humble little mushroom

00:26:39

can we be okay

00:26:42

with invisibility?

00:26:48

Can we lead from the back of the room

00:26:52

and come forward when the time is right

00:26:54

instead of clamoring for the spotlight all the time?

00:26:58

So as I conclude, I just, again,

00:27:01

wanted to shift the focus to something positive

00:27:04

and just

00:27:07

consider a couple points about how to keep our communities healthy regarding

00:27:12

checks and balances for power.

00:27:16

How do we do that? What can you do

00:27:19

if somebody who is engaging in these narcissistic or grandiose

00:27:23

behaviors is causing disruption in your community. Well, one thing

00:27:28

that has proven to be very effective is cultivating a council of elders.

00:27:34

Individuals with integrity

00:27:35

who have proven that they are reliable and trustworthy

00:27:40

over time and individuals who are open to being

00:27:44

sources of sage advice seek counsel

00:27:47

maintaining a gender balance i realize it’s a controversial thing to say but we need to mitigate

00:27:56

the effects of testosterone and an over emphasis on male and masculine approaches.

00:28:06

We need balance.

00:28:10

We need to include persons of all genders in the dialogue.

00:28:17

We need to develop rituals and ethics codes and values that help keep the community cohesive and healthy

00:28:21

and help us to be able to recognize behaviors that aren’t acceptable.

00:28:28

I also advise writing them down. Help solidify those values that the group agrees to live by.

00:28:35

Now here’s another one. You know how I mentioned earlier that individuals engaged in power

00:28:41

abusives frequently inspire other people to talk about them a lot.

00:28:46

Well, sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

00:28:49

And gossip is a very effective tool.

00:28:52

And I was having a hard time with this one.

00:28:54

I felt as if I was gossiping about certain individuals quite a bit.

00:28:58

As I was asking around and trying to get information, are other people seeing these behaviors?

00:29:04

And Bob Jesse, who heads up the Council of Spiritual Practices,

00:29:09

he gave me some really good advice and helped me reposition this one.

00:29:12

I’ll pass it on to you.

00:29:13

He said there’s a difference between gossip and reputation checking.

00:29:18

So don’t be afraid to question power,

00:29:24

question the claims to authority of people who are abusing power in your communities.

00:29:30

Find out about them.

00:29:32

Find out how they have been received in other communities.

00:29:35

Find out, are they credible?

00:29:38

Should you be listening to them?

00:29:40

Are they dangerous?

00:29:41

It’s okay if we’re going to give lip service to functioning in kind of neo-tribal fashion.

00:29:49

Tribes talk.

00:29:52

And sometimes the outcome in more tribal models,

00:29:58

when enough people are talking

00:30:01

and they realize someone’s behavior is unacceptable,

00:30:09

sometimes as a last resort, we have to consider shunning and shaming every time i say those words it makes me a little uncomfortable

00:30:16

but it can be done with love and compassion and what that looks like is your behavior is not in

00:30:24

accord with the values of this community you’re going to need to sit the next one out and compassion. And what that looks like is your behavior is not in accord

00:30:25

with the values of this community.

00:30:27

You’re going to need to sit the next one out.

00:30:30

Do you need resources or other support

00:30:32

to help get your act together?

00:30:35

And the lovely thing about systems that work like this,

00:30:39

if an individual is able to grow and amend their ways,

00:30:43

they’ll be invited back in.

00:30:46

And finally, I would just encourage everybody

00:30:49

to find the bravery to speak truth to power.

00:30:52

Don’t be afraid to speak up,

00:30:54

because often these individuals

00:30:57

who are abusing power in communities,

00:30:59

they’re bullies, and they’re intimidating.

00:31:02

But if you stand your ground and speak from your truth and call them out,

00:31:07

they’ll back down when they understand that they can’t control you.

00:31:11

I’m going to go ahead and just one last little thing I’ll share with you

00:31:17

to help you be aware when somebody might be abusing power, what it sounds like.

00:31:24

I’m going to read an actual statement that an individual might be abusing power, what it sounds like. I’m going to read an actual statement

00:31:25

that an individual who was abusing power

00:31:29

and causing a lot of problems in multiple communities,

00:31:32

what it sounds like when somebody is empire building

00:31:36

for self-serving purposes

00:31:38

and using psychedelics in a very seductive way

00:31:43

to manipulate others, to gain control.

00:31:48

It sounds something like this. This is an actual statement that was posted.

00:31:53

My job here is teaching you the

00:31:56

magical and mysterious ways of the plant gods and goddesses.

00:32:01

Many of you are new to our group, and

00:32:04

one privilege of organizing this group

00:32:06

is that it

00:32:07

sorry the light is changing I can’t see

00:32:09

is that

00:32:10

a group that is amazing

00:32:13

is that we have such great mindful members

00:32:15

we respect each other

00:32:17

and have safe boundaries

00:32:18

for this group to grow

00:32:20

the key is to keep coming back

00:32:23

we have many kinds of brilliant people at the top of

00:32:27

their respective fields who show up and are members of our group. You may be surprised when you realize

00:32:33

there’s a whole world of psychedelic scholars and super fun people waiting to connect with you.

00:32:41

It seems innocuous enough, but on closer inspection, what this individual was doing

00:32:47

was trying to make money off of reaching out to isolated and ill-informed individuals to

00:32:55

get them to pay him money to come into a group where they would feel special and embraced

00:33:01

and loved. He was capitalizing on people who were disenfranchised,

00:33:06

who felt disconnected, and were looking for community

00:33:10

and was misappropriating the power of psychedelics

00:33:15

to manipulate others.

00:33:19

So I just wanted to share that as an example

00:33:21

of how charming and how appealing it can sound

00:33:24

when someone is actually

00:33:26

making a power play and attempting to seduce people who are hurting and lonely and excluded

00:33:34

into a community of special people. So this is the first time I’ve presented on this topic.

00:33:43

I don’t have any hard and fast conclusions,

00:33:46

but I hope that in some regard it’s been helpful to pause and consider areas

00:33:51

in which psychedelic communities may be vulnerable to abuses of power

00:33:57

and that by maybe considering some of the attributes of individuals who abuse power,

00:34:03

you may have your eyes more open to

00:34:06

things that might be going on in your own communities and may feel more empowered to

00:34:11

speak up when you’re seeing individuals who are abusing power.

00:34:15

So I’m going to stop there and I’ll open it to open the floor to questions if anybody

00:34:21

has any follow-up questions.

00:34:24

Thank you.

00:34:25

Annie has a question here.

00:34:33

There’s a question right behind you.

00:34:35

They’ll pass the mic to you.

00:34:36

Behind you there’s a question and then we’ll pass the mic.

00:34:40

Actually, you were describing a sociopath more than a narcissist

00:34:43

because your description is textbook of a sociopath.

00:34:49

And one thing that you said about that was that they divide groups, and they do.

00:34:55

They talk about one group as being, in a very kind way, impaired.

00:35:02

So if that group has anything to share about this person, the other group thinks, oh, they’re impaired. So if that group has anything to share about this person,

00:35:06

the other group thinks, oh, they’re impaired.

00:35:10

You can’t really believe what they say.

00:35:13

And so one way to facilitate some kind of reconciliation or something

00:35:20

is to almost have a forum.

00:35:24

Get those different groups together

00:35:26

to share their

00:35:28

information without fear.

00:35:29

It’s kind of a combination of the Council of Elders

00:35:31

and the Reputation Check.

00:35:33

Originally, it got very complex.

00:35:36

Breaking down narcissism, sociopathy,

00:35:38

psychopathy, and it got too complex.

00:35:40

That’s textbook.

00:35:41

Textbook sociopath.

00:35:45

Behind you.

00:35:46

Thank you so much for all your meticulous research

00:35:49

and for encouraging other women to be psychedelic researchers

00:35:54

and powerful in this community.

00:35:57

I really appreciate it.

00:36:00

My question is,

00:36:01

what would be your advice

00:36:16

My question is, what would be your advice if you found yourself working closely with somebody who you felt was abusing power in this way, form a more healthy relationship with that person in order to fulfill an important role

00:36:30

or complete an important project for the good of the entire community?

00:36:36

Great question.

00:36:38

My initial response is work on yourself first and do the deep introspective work

00:36:45

to understand what your own boundaries are.

00:36:47

Where are you willing to give?

00:36:49

Where are you lying in the sands?

00:36:52

And then whatever it takes

00:36:55

for you to summon up the power,

00:36:57

it takes courage.

00:36:58

It takes bravery.

00:37:00

It takes a willingness

00:37:01

to put yourself in the line of fire

00:37:02

and be ready for the repercussions.

00:37:05

So put the oxygen mask on yourself first

00:37:08

and know what your boundaries are.

00:37:11

Know I’m being a little bit repetitive,

00:37:13

but know where you’re willing to be flexible.

00:37:16

But then when you mean it, say it like you mean it.

00:37:19

In case you haven’t noticed, I am a very gentle person.

00:37:22

I am soft-spoken. I’m quiet.

00:37:25

I tend to observe, and I’m reluctant to come forward

00:37:29

and speak strongly.

00:37:32

Really know what your values are.

00:37:35

Really understand what you’re willing to fight for

00:37:37

and find your bigger voice.

00:37:41

And think about your own comfort level

00:37:45

in terms of how you want to deliver that message to the other person.

00:37:48

If you can’t do it face-to-face, which I always recommend,

00:37:52

could you do it over the phone?

00:37:54

Could you do it in writing?

00:37:55

Are there repercussions about doing it in writing?

00:37:57

Really consider the method that you’re going to use to deliver your message.

00:38:02

Consider the value of triangulating

00:38:04

with a third, preferably neutral party

00:38:07

to witness the conversation that takes place

00:38:11

so it’s not a he said, or she said, she said, he said,

00:38:14

whatever combination,

00:38:16

but that there is somebody who can verify

00:38:20

what actually took place in the conversation.

00:38:24

And don’t feel an immediate need to respond in the moment in a knee-jerk fashion.

00:38:29

Give yourself all the time you need until you feel that you can stand strong

00:38:33

and be ready if that narcissistic rage comes your way.

00:38:38

And have a plan.

00:38:39

If they do yell and scream, if they do rant and rage,

00:38:42

if they do maneuver to take action against me,

00:38:46

what is your plan?

00:38:47

What are your safe spaces?

00:38:48

Who are your allies?

00:38:50

Who will back you up?

00:38:51

And so don’t be in a hurry.

00:38:53

Know your own boundaries and summon your courage.

00:38:57

Don’t be afraid to be brave

00:38:58

because more often than not, they’ll back down.

00:39:01

They’re busy trying to control a whole bunch of other people

00:39:03

and they’ll often give up if they

00:39:05

realize that it’s not going to work with you. Thank you. Hi, I also have a question. Do you

00:39:14

think that there are also people who are not like conscious about abusing power in this position?

00:39:23

Oh, Most definitely.

00:39:25

A lot of times they’ll have a stated

00:39:27

motive and if you really listen

00:39:30

you get the sense that they believe

00:39:31

what they’re telling you

00:39:33

but look past what

00:39:35

they’re saying and look and see if

00:39:37

their actions, if there may be

00:39:39

secondary motives that

00:39:41

the individual’s not even aware of.

00:39:45

Honor what they say,

00:39:48

but really observe what they’re doing.

00:39:51

Do they match?

00:39:53

And often it is the case that they’re not aware,

00:39:55

and that’s another case for speaking up.

00:39:58

Sometimes it’s just a matter of holding up that mirror.

00:40:02

Do you think some of this may be a product of the fact

00:40:07

that this is in a context of prohibition?

00:40:11

Because what I’ve started to observe a little bit

00:40:14

is many of the people that get drawn to these types of things

00:40:17

are kind of already kind of out there or already on the fringe already,

00:40:23

and that they’re attracted to yet another thing on the fringe.

00:40:28

And I’m curious if as this work comes more into the light

00:40:34

and is maybe better regulated or has more guidelines

00:40:38

or just has a stronger, more vigilant community,

00:40:43

that many of these problems may be lessened.

00:40:46

Yeah, that prohibition issue is really interesting

00:40:49

in the longer version of this talk.

00:40:52

I had a bullet point about this concept of

00:40:55

I’m special, the rules are for fools,

00:40:58

rules are for ordinary, common people,

00:41:01

I’m above that, they don’t apply to me,

00:41:04

I’m special, and I think that prohibition aspect

00:41:07

can be very enticing to somebody who has a self-perception of being above the rules being

00:41:14

extraordinary and I I have to ask myself frequently what’s the difference between having a rules are for fools attitude, and conscious rejection of unjust laws.

00:41:28

You know, my background is,

00:41:33

I worship in the Quaker tradition,

00:41:35

and Quakers show up and witness.

00:41:37

You see something going on, you know, you call it out.

00:41:43

So, another part of that is

00:41:47

you know civil disobedience you know

00:41:50

conscientious objectors the distinction

00:41:54

can be really fine and I think the whole

00:41:56

prohibition aspect of it muddies it and

00:41:59

I do I do think if we can move beyond

00:42:03

prohibition it will be easier

00:42:05

to establish codes

00:42:08

of ethics and guidelines and

00:42:10

community values but right now it does

00:42:12

attract rebels and

00:42:14

people who like

00:42:15

fighting the system

00:42:17

I’m just happy

00:42:21

to be here

00:42:24

I love my life.

00:42:26

I hope you guys all love your lives.

00:42:28

It’s so much, I feel like, working on ourselves first.

00:42:33

I saw this book when I was at WinCo,

00:42:37

and the title was

00:42:38

Somebody Can’t Drive You Crazy If You Don’t Give Them the Keys.

00:42:46

somebody can’t drive you crazy if you don’t give them the keys, you know, so it’s that don’t, you know, don’t feed the troll kind of thing, you know, a lot of times just in our head,

00:42:55

you know, we have these conversations, these projections of, you know, before it even happens

00:43:00

and you see yourself arguing, you know, with the person before it even happens and you see yourself arguing you know with the person before it even happens you

00:43:05

know and i think we just need to get to a point where we start thinking about the conversations

00:43:11

that we want to have the way we want it to be instead of you know you know resisting against it

00:43:19

and you know charging you know our thought process in a more positive stream.

00:43:30

Yeah.

00:43:31

That’s it.

00:43:31

I love you guys.

00:43:32

I’m so happy to be here.

00:43:34

Thank you.

00:43:36

Thanks.

00:43:38

Yeah, you spoke for a second

00:43:41

on counteracting testosterone

00:43:44

and sexism and whatnot.

00:43:50

I guess to you, what does that look like?

00:43:54

Or just, you know, specifically how does that come out

00:43:58

or what are traits that come out that you can point to, you know,

00:44:06

and what does testosterone look like

00:44:08

versus female energy coming forth and leading the way?

00:44:13

Yeah, it’s a huge topic,

00:44:15

and I’m aware it’s kind of a minefield.

00:44:18

What does it look like in my day-to-day work as a researcher?

00:44:23

What kind of situations do I encounter?

00:44:26

What does it look like?

00:44:29

Oftentimes it looks like assumptions made on old and obsolete paradigms,

00:44:34

like who’s going to bring the coffee in

00:44:36

and who’s going to clean up the mess afterwards

00:44:38

and who’s going to be the first author

00:44:41

and who’s going to fulfill which role on a team.

00:44:46

A lot of times there’s assumptions that are more gender-based.

00:44:51

It can involve exclusion of females just by not having prior experience of non-males taking part in certain activities or fulfilling certain roles.

00:45:12

It’s a little difficult.

00:45:16

It’s pervasive.

00:45:17

You know it when it’s going on.

00:45:20

It can have a lot to do with who gets hired, who gets promoted with commensurate experience,

00:45:28

who is even considered for certain roles.

00:45:33

It’s kind of at a more macro level.

00:45:38

Yeah, and it can go down to the micro level.

00:45:41

It can be who’s expected to pick up the dishes after lunch.

00:45:44

Going down to the micro level, it can be who’s expected to pick up the dishes after lunch.

00:45:46

You know?

00:45:51

And oftentimes, you know, don’t get me wrong.

00:45:53

I love testosterone.

00:45:58

I need to pull on my own masculine energy when I’m goal-oriented and developing systems that are effective and efficient.

00:46:01

It’s essential in science.

00:46:02

It’s valuable.

00:46:03

It’s nothing to diminish.

00:46:03

and efficient. It’s essential in science. It’s valuable. It’s nothing to diminish. But it’s when the interest of reaching

00:46:08

a goal sort of supersedes

00:46:12

other considerations like collaboration

00:46:15

or thinking about toppling a vertical hierarchy

00:46:20

and what it might mean to work horizontally in a more

00:46:24

collaborative group hierarchy and what it might mean to work horizontally in a more collaborative, you know, group-oriented

00:46:28

fashion.

00:46:30

These are all broad generalizations, and I’m very concerned in the moment, speaking extemporaneously,

00:46:35

of being sexist in my own comments, but trying to give you a sense of what it’s like to be

00:46:41

female in the sciences and male-dominated workspaces.

00:46:47

It’s macro, micro, pervasive, and very disheartening at times.

00:46:54

That being said, I work with a majority of men who are very balanced within themselves and can bring forth the best of their masculine and their feminine

00:47:07

depending on the task at hand and their

00:47:11

outstanding role models and there are individuals who

00:47:15

happen to be male that I’ve worked with for many years who have never

00:47:20

made me feel as if I was

00:47:24

on the

00:47:25

receiving end of sexism or bad behavior

00:47:29

in that regard.

00:47:32

Did I answer your question?

00:47:38

Anyone else have a question?

00:47:39

Is that a question in the back?

00:47:46

This question is more relevant

00:47:49

to the concept of masculine and feminine energies.

00:47:55

Do you think that these…

00:47:59

I mean, the way we’re kind of talking about these,

00:48:01

they seem like they’re polarized.

00:48:03

It’s like these are masculine qualities

00:48:06

and these are feminine qualities.

00:48:07

Do you think those are biologically imposed

00:48:09

or culturally imposed?

00:48:11

I find it more helpful to think of as a spectrum.

00:48:16

Cool.

00:48:17

And sometimes I always think of the mixing boards

00:48:20

that audio people use,

00:48:22

and it’s just sometimes one aspect is dialed way up,

00:48:26

kind of like make an unpleasant noise.

00:48:29

You need to kind of bring it back down,

00:48:30

and the goal that I’m always striving for is balance.

00:48:37

Thank you.

00:48:38

Yeah.

00:48:39

Okay.

00:48:40

Relating to being around somebody

00:48:44

that might be showing those narcissistic characteristics.

00:48:47

Do you think that I think that it I guess I think it is important.

00:48:52

I’m one of those people where I see it.

00:48:54

I there’s someone recently that I’ve experienced that with and I feel the urge to say something.

00:49:00

But at the same exact time, my preference is can’t I just remove myself because I know I can

00:49:07

like I can I don’t have to be friends with that person I can just leave and never speak to them

00:49:12

again but there’s that conundrum that’s like but then is that right for me to like leave them

00:49:18

doing that bad shit to other people you know so it’s kind of like I was talking about it last night and I was kind of

00:49:25

really unsure of what because at this point my reaction has been I’m just done with that I want

00:49:32

to walk away and I don’t ever want to speak to them again even not even calling them out on what

00:49:36

they’ve been doing so do you think that that do you think that it is always a necessity to call

00:49:42

them out on their negative actions or do you think sometimes for self-preservation, it’s best to just remove yourself?

00:49:49

Yeah, what you’re getting to, the heart of it is really discernment and wisdom.

00:49:55

I work as a therapist with dialectical behavioral therapy.

00:50:02

And one of the skills that we teach is interpersonal relationships

00:50:06

and the sort of thought of triangle diagram

00:50:10

and you’re always weighing your objective,

00:50:14

the relationship, and your own self-esteem.

00:50:17

So giving your space all the time you need

00:50:19

to really look at this situation with this individual

00:50:23

and ask yourself, where are your priorities?

00:50:26

Is leaving the relationship with your self-esteem intact your priority?

00:50:32

And what would that look like?

00:50:33

Do you need to speak up, or do you need to make an evasive move?

00:50:38

Like, I want to get out of this with my self-esteem intact,

00:50:41

and that looks like just disappearing.

00:50:43

Do you want to preserve the relationship?

00:50:45

Do you think there’s something there of value that you want to hang on to,

00:50:48

and do you want to invest in trying to be in a dialogue with this person

00:50:52

that might be reparative?

00:50:54

Or do you have another objective that takes precedent over those two?

00:51:00

So giving yourself time to imagine scenarios, to consider options. And another thing I would

00:51:06

recommend, it kind of goes along with that kind of gossip and people talking about them behind

00:51:11

their backs thing. But if you’re doing it without malice and you really are consulting, anytime

00:51:17

anything’s kind of ethically gray like this or interpersonally gray, do you have anybody that

00:51:22

you trust that you could consult with who could give you some advice

00:51:26

and maybe help you see things from another perspective and then there’s just a point

00:51:31

where it’s messy and confusing and you just gotta go with what you really feel is is right for you

00:51:40

so yeah One more question?

00:51:48

Hi.

00:51:49

I would posit that

00:51:51

for myself and probably some others in here, we’re not

00:51:54

part of as formal

00:51:55

communities as I think you’ve laid out in this example.

00:51:58

However, within

00:51:59

social constructs as a group of friends

00:52:02

or other micro-communities, I’ve seen

00:52:04

psychedelics infuse themselves in these groups and one other power dynamic that i’ve noticed that i would love

00:52:09

your opinion on is someone in these groups it could be the provider of the substance or someone

00:52:14

else making statements like this will help you or as they introduce the substance to others

00:52:19

i have the power to heal i am the wizard it kind of becomes like the ring

00:52:25

in the Lord of the Rings again

00:52:26

sorry I jumped right on your stage

00:52:29

when you see these types of behaviors

00:52:32

on the micro-community side

00:52:34

less on the formal or world-famous side

00:52:37

what would you encourage

00:52:38

is it a similar tack that you would take

00:52:41

to these types of people

00:52:42

this is really an unpolished answer,

00:52:47

but call them on their bullshit.

00:52:48

Ask them on what authority

00:52:49

they’re making those statements

00:52:51

and say, is there literature?

00:52:54

If you really want to step it up,

00:52:57

say, are you aware of any peer-reviewed literature?

00:53:01

Are there data supporting what you’re telling me?

00:53:04

What is your source?

00:53:06

How did you learn this?

00:53:07

And cultivate your own sources of information.

00:53:12

Get familiar with how to call information from Arrowhead

00:53:16

or subscribe to journals, attend conferences,

00:53:21

build up your own body of knowledge and wisdom

00:53:23

so that you can assess better when somebody’s telling you something.

00:53:28

Ask them, how do you know this?

00:53:31

What are your sources?

00:53:32

Cite them.

00:53:34

Tell me.

00:53:34

Point me in a direction where I can read something authoritative.

00:53:39

And again, consult with others.

00:53:41

Don’t take it at face value.

00:53:43

If you have that feeling in your gut that somebody may be making a power play and may be presenting themselves

00:53:48

as the keeper of the magical powers and

00:53:52

somehow you are dependent on their guidance or wisdom,

00:53:57

question that authority and see if you can consult

00:54:00

with other sources or get them to back up what they’re saying.

00:54:05

Thank you everybody for coming and being a kind of audience.

00:54:08

Thank you.

00:54:16

You’re listening to The Psychedelic Salon,

00:54:18

where people are changing their lives one thought at a time.

00:54:23

And one final comment that I think should be made here is that the prejudice and sexism that some women psychedelic researchers sometimes experience isn’t unique to the psychedelic community.

00:54:35

Keep in mind that these FDA-approved studies now fall within the realm of the overreaching scientific community.

00:54:43

And today, psychedelic researchers are actually part of the scientific and medical establishment.

00:54:50

So this is a much more widespread problem than what just affects the psychedelic community.

00:54:55

The scientific research community as a whole can maybe use a little more public scrutiny

00:55:01

about these issues as well, it seems to me.

00:55:04

That said, I find it both

00:55:06

wonderful and amazing at how many young people, both men and women, are now being drawn into the

00:55:12

organized research of psychedelic medicines, and hopefully they won’t be put off by a few jerks in

00:55:18

their midst. Now, speaking about medical research, I just read a request from our forums urging military veterans who have PTSD and are or have used cannabis to treat it to become involved in a new study.

00:55:33

Two groups, Grow for Vets and Care by Design, are currently in the process of recruiting qualified patients for a six-month research project that intends to demystify the healing

00:55:46

connection between veterans, PTSD, and cannabis. And I’ll put a link to that study in today’s

00:55:52

program notes, which you know you can find at psychedelicsalon.com. Also, I want to let you

00:55:58

know that out on our forums, a couple of in-person meeting groups have begun to form, and it looks

00:56:03

like the one in London and the one in San Francisco

00:56:06

are establishing a personal link between them.

00:56:09

Now, this is only a baby step of a start,

00:56:12

but over time I hope that it’s going to lead to many more of us being able to find the others.

00:56:18

And if you recently tried to download some of the Terrence McKenna soundbites

00:56:22

that I’ve posted on our psychedelicsalon.com website?

00:56:25

Well, thanks to fellow salonner Jason,

00:56:28

I discovered that they hadn’t made our transition

00:56:32

to our new servers.

00:56:33

But I fixed that now,

00:56:35

and if these soundbites prove popular

00:56:37

with our fellow salonners,

00:56:38

who like to include a little bit of Terrence

00:56:41

in with their music,

00:56:42

well, I’ve got a few hundred more that I can upload.

00:56:45

But to be honest, Jason is the first person to ever mention them to me.

00:56:50

So maybe he and I are the only two people who like Terrence in these short segments.

00:56:55

Two more quick announcements, and then I’ll let you go.

00:56:59

First of all, one of our fellow salonners from Russia

00:57:02

told me that he now has to use a proxy to reach our podcast.

00:57:06

So I took a quick look at some of the countries from which these podcasts have been downloaded,

00:57:11

but I discovered that downloads to the Russian Federation comprise about 1% of last month’s traffic.

00:57:18

Actually, we’re still reaching over 100 countries, including Australia, Micronesia, Sweden, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom,

00:57:27

Mexico, New Zealand, Canada, Croatia, Finland, Norway, the Czech Republic, Ireland, France,

00:57:34

Brazil, Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, Japan, Iceland, Estonia, Poland, and Portugal, just

00:57:41

to name a few.

00:57:42

So the next time you have a toke and are listening to a podcast

00:57:46

from here in the salon, you may want to keep in mind that you are not alone. You have fellow

00:57:51

salonners who are your friends all over the world. And finally, a quick mention about the paperback

00:57:57

copy of my novel, The Genesis Generation. As you know, last March I released a new edition of my novel, both in paperback and in Kindle format.

00:58:08

To be honest, I thought that I would sell a lot of copies of it in paperback format.

00:58:12

However, the truth wasn’t so exciting.

00:58:16

I purchased 40 copies myself, and I sent them to friends, family members, and to podcasters

00:58:21

who I hoped would interview me and maybe help sell a few copies.

00:58:25

But only two of my friends even read the book, and nobody in my family did. I don’t know if any

00:58:30

of the podcasters read it, because the free copies didn’t generate a single request for an interview.

00:58:36

Now, did I find that discouraging? Yes, absolutely. But back when I was practicing law in Texas,

00:58:44

there was a saying that has stuck with me.

00:58:46

And that is, dance with the one who brung you.

00:58:50

Well, about 65 of our fellow slaughters actually purchased a paperback copy of my novel,

00:58:55

and they are the ones that I’ve decided to dance with.

00:58:58

Now, after I’m dead, these books may be worth more than these wonderful people paid for them.

00:59:03

But I don’t want to wait until I’m dead to thank them.

00:59:06

So over at CreateSpace, where I published it, I raised the price to $350.

00:59:13

Amazon, of course, discounted it to around $280.

00:59:16

But whatever you do, please don’t buy one from Amazon.

00:59:20

As of now, the only place to get a copy at a reasonable price is for those who

00:59:27

subscribe to our forums as lifetime members at 10 and I’ll send

00:59:33

them a paperback copy of the Genesis generation, along with an email letting them know what number

00:59:38

copy they have. You see, since this is a print-on-demand publishing company, each copy has

00:59:44

the date it was produced printed inside the back of the book.

00:59:47

So anyone who purchased a copy before October 1st of this year

00:59:51

has one of the first 100 copies.

00:59:54

And if you go out to Amazon right now,

00:59:56

you’ll see that used copies are selling for way more money than the new ones are,

01:00:02

which tells you something about the Amazon used book marketplace.

01:00:06

The truth, of course, is that it’s going to be a long time, if ever,

01:00:10

that these books are worth more than the $10 our lifetime members can pay.

01:00:15

But who knows? One day I may even remove that option,

01:00:19

and then there will only be a small number of copies that were ever printed.

01:00:23

But if you just want to read the book and not have a paper copy, you can still get the Kindle version for only $2.99. © BF-WATCH TV 2021 among my very favorite people. Thanks for believing in me. And for now, this is Lorenzo

01:00:45

signing off from Cyberdelic Space.

01:00:48

Be careful out there, my friends.