Program Notes
Support Lorenzo on Patreon.com
https://www.patreon.com/lorenzohagerty
Guest speakers: Matt Pallamary and René Jenkins
René Jenkins and Matt Pallamary
Date this lecture was recorded: April 2019.
Today’s program features a conversation between frequent guest, writer, and musician Matt Pallamary and René Jenkins who among other things is a ceremonial sound practitioner. During their discussion you will learn about the work that they have been doing with music during medicine ceremonies. They also discuss their gratitude for the guidance and teaching they have been given by world musician Tito la Rosa.
René Jenkins
Ceremonial Sound Practitioner
Matthew J. Pallamary
Author, Editor, Shamanic Explorer
Mystic Ink Publishing
The Prophecy of the Eagle and the Condor
Tito la Rosa
“Ayni” with Tito la Rosa and René Jenkins
Download a free copy of Lorenzo’s latest book
The Chronicles of Lorenzo - Volume 1
Previous Episode
603 - Treating Opioid Addiction with Ibogaine
Next Episode
605 - Microdosing_ Benefits, Risks, Unknowns
Similar Episodes
- 607 - Music, Psychedelics, and Magic - score: 0.75303
- 271 - Weaving Modern Ritual from Traditional Roots - score: 0.74940
- 447 - Manifesting New Communities - score: 0.74666
- 080 - Adventures of an Urban Shaman - score: 0.72848
- 452 - Kambo, Sananga and Rapé - score: 0.71900
- 638 - Replanting Ayahuasca - score: 0.71520
- 543 - Working With Medicinal Plants - score: 0.71178
- 307 - Palenque Entheobotany Seminars Remembered - score: 0.71142
- 647 - Why Burning Man - score: 0.71102
- 475 - The Path of a Medicine Woman - score: 0.71008
Transcript
00:00:00 ►
Greetings from cyberdelic space.
00:00:19 ►
This is Lorenzo and I’m your host here in the psychedelic salon.
00:00:23 ►
This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.
00:00:31 ►
And you don’t have to be a musician, nor do you have to be a healer in order to learn something from the interview that I’m about to play for you.
00:00:42 ►
The two people whose conversation we’re about to listen in on are Matt Palomary, or Mateo as his close friends call him, and his fellow sound healer, Renee Jenkins. Now, if you’ve been with us here in the salon for a while,
00:00:46 ►
you already know that Mateo is a good friend and fellow survivor of many adventures that we’ve
00:00:51 ►
shared. And in case you are somewhat new to the salon, though, you should also know that while
00:00:56 ►
Matt has spent many years in jungles, deserts, and on mountains while pursuing his study of
00:01:02 ►
shamanism, he is very careful to let you know that he isn’t
00:01:06 ►
a shaman himself, but I’m here to tell you that he is one of the two most serious students of
00:01:11 ►
shamanism that I’ve ever met. The other party to this conversation is Rene Jenkins, who has been
00:01:18 ►
a professional musician for the past 25 years or so, and he’s played with some of the biggest names in the music world.
00:01:25 ►
But for the past several years, Mateo and Rene have been doing musical healing work in various
00:01:31 ►
medicine circles around the country. As you will hear, much of their work has been inspired by
00:01:37 ►
their teacher and friend Tito La Rosa, who earned a Grammy nomination for Best World Music with his
00:01:43 ►
album titled The Prophecy of the Eagle and the Condor.
00:01:48 ►
Now during this conversation, you’ll be hearing Mateo and Renee say a lot of good things about Tito, and I’m here to back them up.
00:01:55 ►
Years ago, I was fortunate to participate in several ayahuasca ceremonies during which Tito provided the music.
00:02:01 ►
during which Tito provided the music.
00:02:07 ►
And I’m here to tell you that even the sitters who didn’t drink the tea those nights were transported into other realms with Tito’s music.
00:02:11 ►
The last time I saw him was a few years before he was married,
00:02:15 ►
and his CD had just been released.
00:02:18 ►
In fact, it’s the only Grammy-nominated CD that I ever bought
00:02:21 ►
directly from the hand of the musician who created it,
00:02:24 ►
and it’s one of my
00:02:25 ►
little treasures. But enough of my old memories, now let’s listen in on Mateo and Rene as they
00:02:32 ►
begin what was to be an interview for the salon, but it seems like it really turned out to be much
00:02:38 ►
more enjoyable because they ultimately just ended up hanging out and talking.
00:02:41 ►
They just ended up hanging out and talking.
00:02:45 ►
Hi, saloners.
00:02:47 ►
It’s Mateo.
00:02:48 ►
Some of you know me.
00:02:49 ►
I’ve been with the Psychedelic Salon with the graciousness of Lorenzo for some years now.
00:02:54 ►
Most of you who know me know me as a writer.
00:02:58 ►
Those who know me closer know I’m also a musician.
00:03:01 ►
I’m a vocalist and a drummer.
00:03:04 ►
And I’ve had the great blessings to connect some years back,
00:03:08 ►
I don’t know, maybe five years or something,
00:03:09 ►
with an amazing sound healer by the name of Rene Jenkins.
00:03:14 ►
And Rene and I are doing some sound healing work.
00:03:17 ►
We’ve been doing some things all over the country,
00:03:21 ►
and we’re gearing up for an international tour.
00:03:26 ►
And Rene’s been doing even more international touring.
00:03:28 ►
So with his talents and skills, and I’m working with him closely with vocals and drumming, percussion,
00:03:38 ►
which is my specialty for those who do know me really well.
00:03:41 ►
And we’ve been touring and working together.
00:03:44 ►
We were part of a big exhibit
00:03:45 ►
of Pablo Amaringo’s artwork and his students so we’ve been doing a lot of work together we do a
00:03:53 ►
lot of ceremony work together and Rene also does a lot on his own as a sound healer so we are
00:04:01 ►
working together this weekend and we decided to take a little time out from our busy schedule here to have an interview.
00:04:08 ►
So I want to focus a lot on Rene, because you guys have heard from me a lot.
00:04:14 ►
And I want to, you know, it’s a collaborative interview with the both of us, but I really want to highlight his skills and talent.
00:04:22 ►
So I also would like to thank you, Rene, for being open to interviewing on the show.
00:04:27 ►
Right on.
00:04:28 ►
And I’m sure Lorenzo will have some comments to say before and after and all that,
00:04:33 ►
because we go way back since before dirt, but that’s a whole other story.
00:04:37 ►
So welcome, Rene.
00:04:40 ►
Thank you, Mateo.
00:04:41 ►
Do you want to give us a little bit of your background?
00:04:42 ►
Thank you, Mateo.
00:04:43 ►
It’s really, really great to be here and have this opportunity to share a little bit about the work.
00:04:49 ►
I am a ceremonial sound healer and I’ve been doing this work officially since 2003.
00:04:56 ►
And I started playing the didgeridoo back in 1992, which was really the first instrument that got me going toward the healing realms. I always knew I was
00:05:07 ►
going to be a sound healer or a healer of sorts. I didn’t know sound healing was going to be the
00:05:12 ►
modality. But once I started playing the didgeridoo, it’s pretty obvious. As soon as you point that
00:05:17 ►
instrument to someone, they open their arms and close their eyes and they feel the vibration of the instrument. So it really seemed from that point that there was something to the didgeridoo as a healing instrument.
00:05:32 ►
But it took about 10 years for me of people’s feedback, positive feedback,
00:05:39 ►
saying you should do this as a career or something.
00:05:43 ►
I just thought, how flaky is that though did we do
00:05:46 ►
healer is that what you’d call it i anyway um i’ve been a professional musician all my life
00:05:52 ►
playing trombone and uh keyboards um mostly as a back backing musician and i’ve had the opportunity to play with great musicians uh like johnny mathis
00:06:07 ►
and uh the temptations mary wilson of the supremes and uh a host of other musicians as as a backup
00:06:15 ►
artist yeah greg allman too right greg allman yeah right yeah yeah and uh you know that we’re
00:06:21 ►
part of the house band and so we’d have a lot of different musicians coming in with their books,
00:06:27 ►
their material, and so we would back them up as a three-piece horn section.
00:06:31 ►
So I’ve been doing that soul and R&B and Motown stuff forever,
00:06:38 ►
seems like forever, and even some classical music.
00:06:42 ►
Because as a trombone player,
00:06:44 ►
you have to have a lot of different skill sets to make a living.
00:06:50 ►
So I was dabbling in the sound healing bit until about 2003.
00:06:57 ►
I decided to do it as a vocation.
00:07:01 ►
And I was using at that time just didgeridoo and the wind wand and I’d have friends come over and
00:07:08 ►
I started vibe therapy um and had a website vibetherapy.org all one word right vibetherapy
00:07:16 ►
yeah dot org yeah get that folks yeah and then I just from there I I started branching out and doing more groups. I met Tito La Rosa about three months later after deciding I was going to do it as a career.
00:07:31 ►
You know how fate works in that way. on, I think, more of a spiritual level with a vision that I was going to be doing the
00:07:48 ►
same kind of work as Tito was.
00:07:52 ►
And so Tito started inviting me to do different ceremonial things with him, healings, and
00:07:59 ►
I learned mostly through osmosis his methodology which is another
00:08:05 ►
story but he started giving me instruments
00:08:08 ►
and I didn’t consider myself a
00:08:10 ►
flute player but
00:08:11 ►
with his
00:08:13 ►
encouragement and me
00:08:15 ►
just fiddling around with the energy
00:08:17 ►
I could
00:08:19 ►
I found that I had an aptitude
00:08:22 ►
for playing those kinds of instruments
00:08:23 ►
we’re going to talk about this a little more, but it is all about the energy.
00:08:27 ►
For sure.
00:08:28 ►
Oh, for sure.
00:08:29 ►
Rene and I have both performed with Tito.
00:08:32 ►
Rene has probably performed with him six million times more than I have,
00:08:35 ►
but I’ve had the blessing to perform with him, and we both have.
00:08:38 ►
And for those of you who don’t know, Tito is a Grammy winner
00:08:41 ►
with Mary Youngblood, I think it was.
00:08:44 ►
Yeah, in an album called Eagle and the Condor. Right, yeah, the Prophecy of the Eagle and the Condor. Tito is a Grammy winner with Mary Youngblood I think it was yeah
00:08:45 ►
an album called
00:08:46 ►
Eagle and the Condor
00:08:47 ►
right
00:08:47 ►
yeah
00:08:47 ►
Prophecy of the Eagle
00:08:48 ►
and the Condor
00:08:49 ►
if you guys are into
00:08:49 ►
the Peruvian mysticism
00:08:51 ►
and history and stuff
00:08:52 ►
those CDs are out there
00:08:54 ►
and Rene
00:08:54 ►
you also did a CD
00:08:55 ►
with Tito
00:08:56 ►
yes
00:08:57 ►
called Aini
00:08:57 ►
Aini
00:08:58 ►
right
00:08:58 ►
and that’s
00:08:59 ►
the offering
00:09:01 ►
is it Aini
00:09:01 ►
the offering
00:09:02 ►
yeah
00:09:02 ►
it means sacred reciprocity
00:09:04 ►
yes and it’s the it’s a word that the Campesinos up in the Andes The offering, is it Aini, the offering? Yeah, it means sacred reciprocity. Yes.
00:09:05 ►
And it’s a word that the Campansinos up in the Andes use.
00:09:10 ►
Yep.
00:09:11 ►
It kind of means, as I assist you, you assist me, we assist each other.
00:09:19 ►
And it’s sort of the rule of law they use up in the Andeses where somebody plants a field everyone comes to help
00:09:26 ►
plow it and when you need a barn built everyone comes and assists and they benefit from each
00:09:31 ►
other’s help in that way so there’s a reciprocity there that’s it’s it’s intrinsic in the sound
00:09:38 ►
healing work um and as you know because we’ve worked together, you are receiving healing energy as you give it.
00:09:46 ►
And as you’re taking care of another person, you are receiving that nurturing, healing energy.
00:09:54 ►
And while I’m mentioning those words, there was another teacher that I had,
00:10:00 ►
Lauren Smith, who just passed away this year.
00:10:08 ►
lauren smith who just passed away this year and he was a kashaya pomo elder who would use the sacred word waya which describes nurturing healing energy and he would say
00:10:16 ►
that way is all around us all the time moving through us every time we are giving nurturing and healing energy to others.
00:10:26 ►
So he would sing way as a healing salve for clients or people who would come to see him for healing.
00:10:35 ►
And sometimes the way a word would sound like a call to arms,
00:10:43 ►
like almost like a march to give energy
00:10:46 ►
and courage and vitality to a person.
00:10:50 ►
Way-o, way-o, way-o, way-o, way-o, way-o.
00:10:53 ►
You know, like that.
00:10:54 ►
And he would have me play didgeridoo
00:10:55 ►
and he’d say, play something up, you know, upbeat.
00:10:58 ►
And then for another person,
00:11:00 ►
it would be very, very subtle
00:11:02 ►
and like a lullaby, soothing.
00:11:04 ►
And he would tell the person
00:11:05 ►
go lay down he’d be way away away away away away and it would be very very uh calming and uh so
00:11:15 ►
with all the versions i realized oh there’s not really a melody that he has in mind. He’s just employing the energy
00:11:25 ►
of nurturing healing energy
00:11:27 ►
that’s within him
00:11:29 ►
and invoking it in the other person
00:11:31 ►
to come out and help heal the person.
00:11:34 ►
And this dovetails
00:11:36 ►
with so many other teachers
00:11:38 ►
and their wisdom,
00:11:40 ►
ancestral wisdom about healing
00:11:42 ►
that we embody this medicine
00:11:45 ►
and the way we give the medicine is unique.
00:11:49 ►
And it’s important to stay connected
00:11:51 ►
and that’s why we do this medicine work,
00:11:54 ►
whether with plants or without.
00:11:58 ►
We’ve been doing that, yeah.
00:12:00 ►
Yeah, we’ve done a lot of public,
00:12:01 ►
we got really 89-year-old groupies and stuff, but we’ve done a lot of public. We got really 89-year-old groupies and stuff.
00:12:05 ►
But we’ve done a lot of public sound healing performances.
00:12:08 ►
And we’re always available for that.
00:12:11 ►
And I want to just touch back on the Aine for a minute
00:12:13 ►
because there’s a real brilliance to it.
00:12:16 ►
Also as an equalizer.
00:12:18 ►
And all of my Peruvian friends pretty much,
00:12:20 ►
especially the Andean ones,
00:12:22 ►
if I haven’t seen them for a few years,
00:12:24 ►
you haven’t seen each other, the first thing they do
00:12:26 ►
is give you a gift.
00:12:27 ►
And the tradition is to exchange gifts
00:12:30 ►
and it’s actually, there’s a whole brilliance
00:12:32 ►
to it, aside from all the wonderful things you were saying.
00:12:34 ►
It’s an equalizer.
00:12:35 ►
Like if somebody was going to come up and give you a gift
00:12:37 ►
and then you might feel obligated and all that kind of a thing.
00:12:40 ►
If you’re both exchanging it,
00:12:41 ►
it really equalizes the energy
00:12:44 ►
of it.
00:12:46 ►
And all this work is energy work and energy work um particularly in the way that we do it is one of the essences of
00:12:56 ►
shamanism and i gotta tell you when you are uh under the influence of the plants
00:13:02 ►
and brother rn a comes around with that did,
00:13:05 ►
just starts playing it on your body,
00:13:06 ►
and he plays it into your heart and your crown chakra,
00:13:09 ►
and your whole body is vibrating,
00:13:11 ►
and you’re really resonating.
00:13:14 ►
And for me personally, it’s very, very primal, earthy energy.
00:13:19 ►
I mean, like, the core.
00:13:21 ►
It’s almost like Mother Earth is singing a song.
00:13:26 ►
So kind of along those lines, one of the things that Tito La Rosa has very much specialized in
00:13:33 ►
has been pre-Columbian instruments.
00:13:35 ►
And Rene has picked up that torch, and pretty much everything you play, I think, is pre-Columbian.
00:13:42 ►
Correct me if I’m wrong. Yeah, there’s a lot of pre-Columbian instruments,
00:13:46 ►
but there’s also instruments from other parts of the world.
00:13:51 ►
Well, those are probably pre-Columbian.
00:13:53 ►
Yeah, even though it’s not South America,
00:13:54 ►
it’s still that primitive, primal.
00:13:58 ►
And I have a pretty good sense of your instruments.
00:14:03 ►
And as I mentioned, we’ve been working together
00:14:05 ►
now for maybe five years we’ve even performed in shows we did those uh la santa monica yes um the
00:14:13 ►
one the show i can’t remember now he’ll kill he’ll kill me if i forget but anyway yeah um we’ve been
00:14:19 ►
working together with that and with the plants and the energies and we’re we’re pretty much
00:14:22 ►
getting telepathic yeah the more we work together it seems like it’s easier to communicate without the words yeah and
00:14:31 ►
then when we do words it’s like oh dude i was just thinking about that get out of my head kind of
00:14:35 ►
like that but um if you if you if you want um would you like to tell us i’m familiar uh with
00:14:41 ►
your instruments yeah but you want to tell a little bit about some of the instruments you play
00:14:44 ►
i know you do the conch and and you know the didge and all But you want to tell a little bit about some of the instruments you play? I know you do the conch and the didge and all that.
00:14:47 ►
You want to give us a little…
00:14:48 ►
Yeah, you mentioned the conch shell.
00:14:50 ►
The patuto has been played by many different cultures as a calling, a communication device.
00:14:57 ►
And that’s how it was given to me by Tito.
00:15:00 ►
And he would say that metaphysically speaking, the instrument is a call to spirit, to open communication with the heart.
00:15:23 ►
whether it’s a rite of passage or maybe a wedding ceremony or a straight-up communication device from the top of the mountaintops,
00:15:31 ►
the way they communicate to triblets that are quite a distance away.
00:15:36 ►
So it’s very much an invocation type of instrument,
00:15:41 ►
calling in the directions and starting ending ceremonies as I
00:15:47 ►
mentioned that yeah and there’s a series of other instruments that have been
00:15:52 ►
gifted to me some from the Zapotec culture which is near the Oaxaca region
00:15:58 ►
yeah Mexico down there yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Beautiful, beautiful people. And they come from instrument makers that are making replicas of some of the ancient instruments that have been dug up from archaeological digs.
00:16:15 ►
And some are their own renditions.
00:16:17 ►
Once they get the principles of what the instruments do, they start creatively making their own creations.
00:16:26 ►
So it’s really an interesting movement that’s going on,
00:16:29 ►
especially because sound healing
00:16:31 ►
has become more of a mainstream thing.
00:16:34 ►
So I make an instrument called a wind wand
00:16:37 ►
that is a new, more modern instrument,
00:16:41 ►
but it has similar sounds to the bull roar,
00:16:44 ►
which is an Australian
00:16:47 ►
origin instrument. The didgeridoo, of course we mentioned, but there’s other flutes, ritual flutes
00:16:53 ►
from the Hawaiian culture called the nose flute. I have a series of ocarinas that are made of
00:16:58 ►
dinosaur bone and, uh, and other ceramic instruments. So they’re made of wood, bone, feather, quills, skins like drums and rattles and things like that.
00:17:13 ►
Yeah, you have, you and I both have, I can’t play mine for shit, but you’re very good.
00:17:18 ►
You have the Condor Quill Pan Pipe that you got from Tito.
00:17:22 ►
We both got one from Tito.
00:17:23 ►
Yeah, that’s right.
00:17:24 ►
We should try that together. It would be a really beautiful thing. Yeah. I’m just not as talented
00:17:29 ►
as you are. And it’s okay. It’s, it’s to me, a lot of these instruments are about the intent.
00:17:37 ►
Even if it’s a single note or two notes, there is so much that we express through the dynamics, through our touch in
00:17:48 ►
our eyes, the gentleness on how we approach the note, whether it’s really softly or with
00:17:56 ►
a dynamic masculine forcefulness or assuredness.
00:18:03 ►
That’s all felt.
00:18:26 ►
Unableness, assuredness, that’s all felt. in our favor that are really urging us to open to open to the possibilities
00:18:28 ►
to open to consciousness
00:18:29 ►
to open to our
00:18:31 ►
abilities
00:18:33 ►
and our love really
00:18:36 ►
I think waya is another way of saying
00:18:38 ►
love and
00:18:39 ►
each of us as instruments
00:18:41 ►
express love through our touch
00:18:44 ►
and through our voice
00:18:45 ►
and the quality of
00:18:47 ►
our care
00:18:48 ►
so the instrument is an extension
00:18:51 ►
of that and you do this
00:18:53 ►
I see you do this in your
00:18:55 ►
singing and in your touch
00:18:57 ►
when we move around the group
00:18:59 ►
and do the feathers
00:19:01 ►
with the you know basically
00:19:03 ►
calling in that spiritual element that we are greater than this body and we’re bringing it in with gentleness or sometimes with just power.
00:19:12 ►
Let’s validate this life that we’re living.
00:19:15 ►
And I see you do that and you do it really effortlessly and naturally.
00:19:20 ►
Makes me feel better for all my screw-ups.
00:19:23 ►
Because, you know, back in the day, back in the 80s mostly,
00:19:26 ►
let me think about this, the late 70s and throughout the 80s,
00:19:29 ►
I played in rock bands, country bands, blues, country rock,
00:19:33 ►
a little jazz for fun.
00:19:36 ►
And I remember, like, doing a gig and we’d do something
00:19:39 ►
and we’d be like, God, we really blew that one, you know?
00:19:42 ►
And then all these people would come up,
00:19:43 ►
oh, you guys were so great, I just love what you did. I’m like, oh, God. If you’re that one, you know? And then all these people come up, oh, you guys were so great.
00:19:45 ►
I just love what you did.
00:19:46 ►
I’m like, oh, God.
00:19:47 ►
If you’re a musician, you can hear it.
00:19:50 ►
But you know this too.
00:19:51 ►
One of the keys to good musicianship
00:19:53 ►
is that if you make a mistake,
00:19:55 ►
just keep going and don’t give it the energy.
00:19:57 ►
And most people don’t even notice it.
00:19:58 ►
Yeah.
00:19:59 ►
They think it’s just interpretation of it.
00:20:01 ►
That’s really true.
00:20:02 ►
But something else you just made me aware of
00:20:04 ►
that I didn’t realize
00:20:05 ►
is that most of these pre-Columbian instruments are from plants and animals.
00:20:10 ►
You know, the woodwinds, the conch, the feathers, the skins on the drums.
00:20:15 ►
I had never thought about it quite like that.
00:20:17 ►
And there’s a spirit to the nature of the instrument as well.
00:20:23 ►
Absolutely.
00:20:24 ►
And it can really add another dimension
00:20:27 ►
if you’re open to the spirit of the plant
00:20:31 ►
or the spirit of the animal that’s coming through
00:20:33 ►
to have that dialogue be even more rich.
00:20:38 ►
I think a lot of these instruments,
00:20:39 ►
like the shakapa, which is the leafy instrument,
00:20:42 ►
they’re much like bringing the outside in.
00:20:47 ►
And as we get older,
00:20:49 ►
most of us don’t spend as much time out
00:20:52 ►
playing or relating with the natural world.
00:20:56 ►
We’re in the artificial light.
00:20:57 ►
We’ve got computers in front of us.
00:20:59 ►
You know, it’s just…
00:21:00 ►
That’s why I love the jungle.
00:21:01 ►
Yeah, exactly.
00:21:02 ►
The jungle is surrounded by that vibration,
00:21:05 ►
that consciousness. Symphony. Yeah, exactly. The jungle is surrounded by that vibration, that consciousness.
00:21:06 ►
Symphony.
00:21:07 ►
Yeah, it’s a symphony.
00:21:11 ►
So when we offer, and that’s the key word, I think,
00:21:15 ►
in the realms of this form of healing,
00:21:21 ►
the energy is an offering to the person as a body,
00:21:23 ►
but also as a spirit. And you’re acknowledging their inner world, their ancestral
00:21:27 ►
lineage, where they come from, because sometimes energy gets locked in what we might call the
00:21:35 ►
past, but it’s really the inner world or the uhupacca, as they say in the Peruvian cosmology.
00:21:48 ►
And when you’re addressing those inner worlds within yourself or within another,
00:21:50 ►
you’re offering the energy to help them resolve
00:21:54 ►
maybe something that’s stuck,
00:21:57 ►
just like a plug in the pipe.
00:21:59 ►
You need to clear it out.
00:22:02 ►
And that’s why we cleanse, to clear out our pipes, right?
00:22:05 ►
And open up to the nutrients,
00:22:07 ►
the new nutrients that are wanting to come in
00:22:10 ►
to neutrify our bodies.
00:22:12 ►
Well, it’s the same way in the spiritual realm,
00:22:15 ►
I think, too.
00:22:16 ►
And when we’re working with vibration,
00:22:19 ►
I think part of the storyline
00:22:20 ►
is that we are raising the vibration
00:22:24 ►
because we are bringing our consciousness, our waya,
00:22:28 ►
to help resolve those issues
00:22:31 ►
so the person can be more fully aware and awake.
00:22:35 ►
And that includes ourselves.
00:22:36 ►
That’s the Aini part of it.
00:22:39 ►
You made me think of a couple of things.
00:22:44 ►
One is that in shamanism or in spirituality, whatever,
00:22:50 ►
the word spirit and the word energy are really the same thing.
00:22:57 ►
And when we do this work, particularly for arguments,
00:23:00 ►
like when Rene plays a didge over somebody’s body, their heart,
00:23:07 ►
that vibration, it’s almost like taking a rug out with a bunch of dust and crap and shaking it out in the wind it’s like that
00:23:11 ►
that vibration because the shamanism the work is really about moving the energy as you said
00:23:16 ►
getting rid of it and unblocking it and when we’ve been worked together in uh medicine ceremonies
00:23:21 ►
we’re paying attention to the whole energy
00:23:25 ►
of the whole group.
00:23:27 ►
And then we modulate it.
00:23:28 ►
Like, okay, they’re dragging.
00:23:29 ►
Let’s pick it up.
00:23:30 ►
Oh, they’re getting out of control.
00:23:31 ►
Let’s chill it out.
00:23:33 ►
And I think we’ve done
00:23:34 ►
a good job of intuiting
00:23:35 ►
what needs to be done.
00:23:37 ►
We’re orchestrating
00:23:37 ►
the energy of the whole thing.
00:23:39 ►
Well, that’s why I enjoy
00:23:40 ►
working with you, Matteo,
00:23:41 ►
because you do have
00:23:42 ►
a musician spirit.
00:23:45 ►
And there is something musical, and having a musical background is helpful
00:23:51 ►
because you can sense when the energy needs to be picked up a bit or bumped up a bit.
00:23:59 ►
And even there’s a time where it’s legato or rubato, where there is no rhythm.
00:24:04 ►
It’s an open structure that can be vast.
00:24:09 ►
But as soon as you add the rhythm, like when you come in with the drum,
00:24:13 ►
suddenly there’s structure.
00:24:15 ►
And it’s like being in a river that’s taking you down.
00:24:18 ►
That’s the shamanic part of it, right?
00:24:20 ►
That’s right.
00:24:21 ►
And so it’s helpful to have some experience
00:24:25 ►
musically, but I think a lot of people intuit, um, intuit the, the track. You just reminded me
00:24:33 ►
of something else. This is a great conversation, by the way. He’s a great interviewer, people.
00:24:37 ►
You are, man. Thank you. I appreciate that. Uh, and trust me, I’ve been around the block,
00:24:42 ►
but, um, one of the things, um, so,, so a gentleman by the name of Steve Beyer wrote a book called Singing to the Plants.
00:24:50 ►
And in medicine work, particularly in ayahuasca, when you’re singing, like I sing lots of Icaros.
00:24:59 ►
And Renee and I do our own thing with that and with the plants.
00:25:04 ►
But when you’re singing to the plants, which is the name of Steve’s book, by the way,
00:25:08 ►
you are singing to the spirits of those plants.
00:25:14 ►
And they’re mostly feminine.
00:25:16 ►
And so you’re flattering them and you’re saying, oh, you’re beautiful.
00:25:19 ►
I love you.
00:25:20 ►
You’re wonderful.
00:25:20 ►
Will you come and will you help me?
00:25:22 ►
And will you join me?
00:25:23 ►
And so when we’re doing this work
00:25:25 ►
we’re very conscious
00:25:25 ►
of that
00:25:26 ►
and we’re calling
00:25:27 ►
in those spirits
00:25:28 ►
and we’re actually
00:25:28 ►
playing for those spirits
00:25:30 ►
and we’re bringing
00:25:31 ►
them in
00:25:32 ►
and we’re being
00:25:32 ►
there’s a shaman
00:25:33 ►
American Indian shaman
00:25:35 ►
by the name of
00:25:35 ►
Fool’s Crow
00:25:36 ►
and he talked about
00:25:38 ►
healing as being
00:25:39 ►
a hollow tube
00:25:40 ►
so you know
00:25:42 ►
you’re working with
00:25:42 ►
forces that are
00:25:43 ►
bigger than you
00:25:43 ►
and you’re
00:25:44 ►
consciously connecting and then you’re sort of getting that are bigger than you and you’re consciously
00:25:45 ►
connecting and then you’re sort of getting your ego out of the way and letting it come through
00:25:49 ►
you. And you do that a lot. We do. Right. My teacher, Angelus Arian, the cross-cultural
00:25:56 ►
anthropologist who’s now passed, she wrote a book called The Fourfold Way. And she says the same
00:26:03 ►
thing, being a hollow little bone, and allowing
00:26:06 ►
the energy to move through you. It’s not so much the personality that’s, you know, it takes the ego
00:26:12 ►
to help show up to say, okay, I am going to do this. I’m going to brush my teeth, and I am going
00:26:19 ►
to promote myself to get the people at this place. But when it’s time to do the work,
00:26:30 ►
it’s important to let all of that go. And that can be somewhat of a trick.
00:26:38 ►
Even for professional musicians like us, you have to almost let go of the training to allow the things that come in. Those off notes are sometimes interventions from spirit.
00:26:47 ►
When something comes in that’s piercing,
00:26:52 ►
it might not be something I would choose to play,
00:26:55 ►
but when it happened, it broke something,
00:26:57 ►
like shattering a glass.
00:27:00 ►
And even though that can be shocking and jarring,
00:27:02 ►
it was exactly what was needed in the moment.
00:27:04 ►
So, yeah, that’s Hall of Om.
00:27:06 ►
Yeah, and part of the rhythm thing,
00:27:07 ►
one of the things I learned in my shamanic training
00:27:08 ►
is when you’re doing
00:27:10 ►
different kinds of healings
00:27:11 ►
with people,
00:27:12 ►
for instance,
00:27:13 ►
when you’re rattling,
00:27:16 ►
the rattle is a bit of a,
00:27:17 ►
not overly sharp,
00:27:18 ►
it’s a bit of a sharp sound.
00:27:19 ►
And that’s there to help
00:27:20 ►
break up the patterns.
00:27:21 ►
So you can break up the patterns
00:27:23 ►
with the rattle
00:27:23 ►
and make that happen
00:27:24 ►
and then Rene can come up with the didge.
00:27:27 ►
And then do the rinse cycle almost.
00:27:30 ►
Like wash out what’s been broken loose.
00:27:32 ►
You know, like that.
00:27:33 ►
Exactly, exactly.
00:27:34 ►
And it’s also, you mentioned it, it’s really a gas when he’s playing the didge.
00:27:39 ►
And I get to back him up on percussion.
00:27:41 ►
And we’ve been refining it.
00:27:44 ►
But he starts
00:27:45 ►
out and he gets it going and then he gets into this awesome fucking excuse me droning rhythm
00:27:51 ►
and then i’m punching it out and i’m backing and i’m pushing it with the drums driving it
00:27:55 ►
and it’s very magical yeah um i never want to stop when we do it i know and we don’t sometimes
00:28:01 ►
we don’t we keep going because there’s if there’s 50 people or 70 in the room like
00:28:06 ►
there was in Florida when we did that group,
00:28:09 ►
we
00:28:09 ►
go until
00:28:11 ►
it’s done. And there’s people who
00:28:14 ►
what I love about the sound
00:28:16 ►
healing work is that
00:28:17 ►
even if you can’t get to
00:28:19 ►
everyone, although I think we did
00:28:22 ►
that time. We did good.
00:28:25 ►
The person who is really receiving it deeply and letting go is doing it for the entire group.
00:28:33 ►
That’s right.
00:28:34 ►
And people feel it.
00:28:37 ►
One person is not able to allow themselves to let go, surrender, and trust.
00:28:44 ►
And another person is. They will do it for the rest
00:28:47 ►
of the group. And I love that about the sound healing work. Because we’re in a container,
00:28:52 ►
and we’re raising the vibration, and everybody is a part of it. And I believe in that whole fields
00:28:59 ►
theory, especially with the HeartMath Institute talked about the radiating energy from the heart that it extends 9 to 12 feet.
00:29:12 ►
And that vibration affects everybody in the room.
00:29:16 ►
And there’s a part of our consciousness that registers the vibration or the heartbeat of the next person.
00:29:25 ►
So I think there’s something, more information than simply a beat
00:29:29 ►
that’s being translated and communicated to those around us.
00:29:34 ►
And I’m not sure why that is.
00:29:36 ►
It may have to do something with feeling safe.
00:29:41 ►
If someone’s heart rate is up and they’re in a fight mode,
00:29:46 ►
feeling safe. If someone’s heart rate is up and they’re in a fight mode, you want to be able to know on some level what’s going on intuitively or, you know. Yeah, one of the things I’ve really
00:29:52 ►
enjoyed, you probably have some awareness of this yourself through your experience, but when we’ve
00:29:57 ►
been doing big groups, sound healings, and we’re doing our thing and we get something happening
00:30:03 ►
and I see people and their feet start to move
00:30:05 ►
and their body starts to go with it,
00:30:06 ►
you know,
00:30:06 ►
and I’m like,
00:30:07 ►
you know you’re hitting home with that.
00:30:09 ►
Yes.
00:30:09 ►
It’s like being a drummer
00:30:11 ►
if you’re watching
00:30:11 ►
and if you’re really rocking it
00:30:12 ►
and then you see a bunch of people
00:30:13 ►
getting up and dancing
00:30:14 ►
then you know you’re hitting that,
00:30:16 ►
Yes.
00:30:17 ►
that groove.
00:30:17 ►
And it’s affecting,
00:30:18 ►
it does affect us,
00:30:20 ►
it affects the performance,
00:30:21 ►
it affects the energy,
00:30:22 ►
everybody around benefits from that.
00:30:25 ►
Yeah, yeah, I want to touch on one little thing
00:30:26 ►
related to what you were saying,
00:30:29 ►
and that is that one of the things of shamanism
00:30:32 ►
that if you continue on the path,
00:30:34 ►
you will eventually learn,
00:30:35 ►
is that absolutely everything is connected.
00:30:38 ►
We are all one.
00:30:40 ►
I know it’s a bit of a cliche,
00:30:41 ►
but we’re all connected, we’re all one.
00:30:43 ►
So every time you do do some healing work on somebody,
00:30:47 ►
you’re actually working on yourself, like you said a little while ago.
00:30:51 ►
And so it goes back and forth.
00:30:53 ►
And I learned the hard way over all of this that being in service,
00:30:57 ►
as you say, an offering, is the highest form.
00:31:01 ►
Because you’re offering to yourself.
00:31:03 ►
You’re kind of creating your own karma in the moment.
00:31:06 ►
So it’s a very wonderful thing, the feedback.
00:31:08 ►
And you can tell when somebody’s responding.
00:31:10 ►
Oh yeah, and so I guess
00:31:12 ►
this work is, as you know,
00:31:14 ►
is so rewarding because
00:31:16 ►
when you can affect or touch
00:31:18 ►
another person with your own
00:31:20 ►
compassion,
00:31:22 ►
with compassion and forgiveness and
00:31:24 ►
understanding, that comes through the cultivation of your own compassion, with compassion and forgiveness and understanding,
00:31:27 ►
that comes through the cultivation of your own compassion and forgiveness and understanding of yourself.
00:31:31 ►
And everyone has traumatic crap that has happened.
00:31:37 ►
I don’t know if I can say that on it.
00:31:38 ►
Yeah, you can.
00:31:39 ►
I just said the F word.
00:31:42 ►
We’re on the internet.
00:31:44 ►
We’re not FCC.
00:31:45 ►
We’re okay. If we do a radio show, that’ll be a different story. We’ll have the F word. We’re on the internet. We’re not FCC. We’re okay.
00:31:46 ►
If we do a radio show, that’ll be a different story.
00:31:48 ►
We’ll have the bleeps.
00:31:49 ►
Yeah, exactly.
00:31:50 ►
I have flutes for those beeps.
00:31:52 ►
Oh, good.
00:31:53 ►
So it certainly, again, it kind of comes down to the hiney and the sacred reciprocity of the work that you do and the medicine that you carry affecting another person
00:32:06 ►
directly through the sound and vibration and intention of um you know of your own work
00:32:14 ►
yeah i’ve seen people respond in different ways like some people maybe they may just break out
00:32:20 ►
into a big huge face breaking smile some of them may just start trembling and shaking
00:32:25 ►
and breaking down and having a really good cry.
00:32:30 ►
It’s very gratifying to see that
00:32:32 ►
because you can almost feel the energy getting lifted
00:32:37 ►
and cleared away.
00:32:40 ►
Well, you can.
00:32:41 ►
There’s people who are trying to do this work, and they do on their own level.
00:32:48 ►
And that’s good that they’re using the singing bowls and they’re singing along with it
00:32:53 ►
and using that energy to help people come to a more quiet place.
00:32:59 ►
Because it’s a very busy world and very frenetic.
00:33:07 ►
And it’s easy to get off center.
00:33:10 ►
And I think all the work that you’ve done,
00:33:14 ►
it shows in everything that you do, actually.
00:33:14 ►
Oh, bless you, Rob.
00:33:19 ►
And it’s because you’ve had the courage to show up,
00:33:22 ►
to say, okay, that’s not true.
00:33:25 ►
This is a lie, or this is conditioning,
00:33:27 ►
and this isn’t me.
00:33:31 ►
This, you know, and being open to greater parts of yourself.
00:33:35 ►
So I feel that, and I know everybody does,
00:33:37 ►
and it is the service piece, I think,
00:33:39 ►
that is the most fulfilling.
00:33:42 ►
And it’s ironic that in some way you have to leave parts of yourself in the back door.
00:33:45 ►
Yeah, your little buggers get out there.
00:33:48 ►
Go to your room.
00:33:49 ►
Exactly.
00:33:50 ►
But I do enjoy working with you because you have the words in particular.
00:33:56 ►
And besides the grace, the words of the shamanic experience,
00:34:01 ►
which this work from Tito, from Angelus from lauren smith my teachers they it’s
00:34:08 ►
all been from that shamanic place of moving energy yeah and you know i can’t say that they
00:34:14 ►
introduced me to it actually my mom did this is maybe another story but um she used to use
00:34:21 ►
something called the egg on me when i had migraines when I was a young boy.
00:34:26 ►
And it was a folkloric medicine that she learned from her aunt where I would say,
00:34:31 ►
Mom, do the egg, do the egg, because these headaches were debilitating.
00:34:34 ►
She’d have me lay on the bed.
00:34:36 ►
She’d take an egg and move it from the top of my head down my arms, down my limbs,
00:34:40 ►
and she’d be whispering the Lord’s Prayer, I later found out.
00:34:43 ►
And at the end of the treatment
00:34:46 ►
which would be about 20 minutes she’d crack the egg into a mason jar of water and leave it on the
00:34:53 ►
toilet seat overnight and if the healing was done correctly quote unquote um the egg should look
00:35:00 ►
partially cooked and then she’d just throw the egg away.
00:35:08 ►
So it was a very great introduction into metaphysics and healing arts at a young age.
00:35:12 ►
And I didn’t question it.
00:35:13 ►
I didn’t think it was weird.
00:35:15 ►
No, it was like family, right?
00:35:16 ►
Exactly.
00:35:17 ►
I’m just curious.
00:35:18 ►
Is there any Russian background in that,
00:35:20 ►
or is it strictly folk medicine?
00:35:22 ►
As far as I’ve looked at,
00:35:25 ►
it’s only been Mesoamerica, but it could be,
00:35:27 ►
it could go way back. There was somebody I knew
00:35:29 ►
who worked with a Russian
00:35:32 ►
healer and his specialty
00:35:34 ►
was egg.
00:35:35 ►
Similar to what you just described, but not
00:35:38 ►
quite the same, but a similar kind of
00:35:40 ►
thing of kind of, it absorbs
00:35:41 ►
all the crap. Energy.
00:35:43 ►
And then, boosh, let’s get rid of it right so i find
00:35:46 ►
that interesting that there’s a universality but of course one of the things that drew me to
00:35:51 ►
shamanism is that it’s everywhere right you know and and everywhere like everywhere quartz crystal
00:35:56 ►
is something and everywhere feathers and animals they’re all it doesn’t matter if you’re in china
00:36:01 ►
siberia or in the amazon it’s all that same. And that’s
00:36:06 ►
one of the things that really drew me to it.
00:36:08 ►
Beautiful.
00:36:09 ►
You know, that, yeah, and then the fact that almost every culture, even very remote Amazonian
00:36:13 ►
tribes, have the myth of the flood as part of their culture. Almost, if not all of them,
00:36:19 ►
almost, I mean, it’s huge. And when I read that years ago in an anthropology class, I
00:36:24 ►
was like, whoa. And then I was like years ago in an anthropology class, I was like, whoa.
00:36:25 ►
And then I was like, ah, I’m hooked.
00:36:27 ►
Exactly.
00:36:28 ►
It’s exciting what’s going on now in YouTube with Graham Hancock’s work.
00:36:32 ►
Yeah, he’s great.
00:36:33 ►
And talking about and researching the beginnings of man
00:36:37 ►
and the things that we’ve forgotten and the cultures that were before us
00:36:40 ►
that were at a higher technology than we are today in some forms.
00:36:44 ►
Yeah, yeah. The mathematics, too, and astronomy. Definitely. were before us that were at a higher technology than we are today in some forms yeah yeah the
00:36:45 ►
mathematics too and astronomy you know all that really really uh awesome awesome stuff yeah so
00:36:55 ►
these healing arts i’m sure that what we’re carrying and what we’re offering is an ancient
00:37:00 ►
form that’s still applicable today because i think part of the healing one of the main
00:37:07 ►
components of what we’re doing is helping to guide people into the altered state of consciousness
00:37:14 ►
yes and and we can do it without plant spirits although they’re great those master teachers
00:37:19 ►
they’re called master teachers for a reason But once people can have that opportunity to drop into an altered state with an intention,
00:37:28 ►
they can dance in between those worlds and release energies that have been locked up
00:37:35 ►
that could later form into more solidified energies like disease or blockages.
00:37:46 ►
And so when you’re accessing altered states of awareness,
00:37:49 ►
you’re able to release emotional blockages,
00:37:52 ►
the physical and spiritual realms, accessing them all.
00:37:55 ►
And so I think that’s an important thing.
00:37:58 ►
You just reminded me, I’ve been saying this for a few years now,
00:38:01 ►
and it’s true.
00:38:02 ►
Some of you may know I’m a perspiring writer.
00:38:04 ►
saying this for a few years now and it’s true some of you may know i’m a perspiring writer and when i’m writing um writing i’ve done tons and tons of things um various research things
00:38:17 ►
sasha shilligan specialties and all the plants everything i could find i know i haven’t done
00:38:21 ►
them all because there’s new ones coming up all the time. But writing
00:38:25 ►
is my favorite altered
00:38:28 ►
state because when I get in the groove,
00:38:29 ►
it’s flowing. And it’s the exact
00:38:31 ►
same thing that happens when we’re playing
00:38:34 ►
music. That’s being
00:38:35 ►
the hollow tube. That’s right.
00:38:37 ►
And some years ago,
00:38:39 ►
I always say this and I never want anybody to
00:38:41 ►
misinterpret it, but some years ago they
00:38:43 ►
did a survey of all the world’s geniuses
00:38:47 ►
to find out what is the thing, what do they have in common.
00:38:51 ►
And the one thing that they all had in common
00:38:53 ►
is every one of them said, it ain’t me.
00:38:57 ►
Oh, interesting.
00:38:58 ►
So I love that analogy.
00:39:00 ►
I’m far from a genius.
00:39:02 ►
I’m a legend in my own mind.
00:39:03 ►
I’ll cop to that.
00:39:03 ►
I ain’t no genius.
00:39:04 ►
But when I’m in that groove and I’m channeling just like when you and i are playing it’s the
00:39:08 ►
same thing it is and um and i had a wonderful experience when i was doing my shamanic study
00:39:13 ►
program some years ago and we went off on a three-day wilderness solo with just san pedro
00:39:21 ►
cactus huachuma and the mixture everything was I think it was maple syrup, cayenne pepper,
00:39:25 ►
and water and lime,
00:39:26 ►
I think it was,
00:39:27 ►
for three days.
00:39:28 ►
Delicious.
00:39:29 ►
Well,
00:39:30 ►
and a nice dose of San Pedro,
00:39:31 ►
which was not delicious.
00:39:33 ►
But we were sent off
00:39:34 ►
on a three-day wilderness solo,
00:39:36 ►
and we had to come back
00:39:37 ►
with a song.
00:39:39 ►
And I’ve sung it to you.
00:39:41 ►
I’ve healed you with it.
00:39:42 ►
Yeah.
00:39:43 ►
Na, na, na.
00:39:44 ►
Yeah, that one. Thank you, na. Yeah, that one.
00:39:45 ►
Thank you, yes.
00:39:46 ►
So that happened.
00:39:48 ►
And then after that happened,
00:39:50 ►
we were asked to do some artwork, some painting.
00:39:53 ►
And I always thought I’m worthless as an artist.
00:39:56 ►
And after doing the Wilderness solo with the Wachuma
00:39:58 ►
and finding my song,
00:40:01 ►
and then coming back and painting,
00:40:03 ►
I had this big flash.
00:40:04 ►
And I realized that playing music, coming back and painting, I had this big flash. And I realized that
00:40:06 ►
playing music, writing, and painting are actually the exact same process. And I realized that
00:40:13 ►
I could do any one of them well. Right. Because I discovered that they were the same thing.
00:40:18 ►
How to open and allow yourself to be a hollow little bone, is allowing yourself to be an instrument.
00:40:26 ►
And when you allow yourself to be an instrument of peace,
00:40:30 ►
you use all the attributes, all your abilities and talents,
00:40:36 ►
in a way that only you can, that’s unique.
00:40:41 ►
And that’s where we talk about being our medicine is such an important thing.
00:40:46 ►
Because each of us has, and so all the listeners as well, has a particular way of expressing love, creativity, and opening to those greater parts of self.
00:41:01 ►
I think the mastery has to do with simply allowing yourself to let go and open.
00:41:08 ►
And that’s the mastery.
00:41:09 ►
And so a mistake, a note is played
00:41:12 ►
that’s not quite pretty.
00:41:16 ►
Your ability to play with that
00:41:18 ►
and to stay in the groove
00:41:20 ►
is, I think, is that mastery part.
00:41:24 ►
I think that’s how I’m’s what you’re how i’m
00:41:25 ►
interpreting oh yeah you’re saying when you’re allowing the words to come through and you’re
00:41:29 ►
allowing the art to move through you that’s it’s such a healing to to have that happen it’s very
00:41:35 ►
very gratifying it is it’s beautiful and you and you realize that um you are connected with
00:41:41 ►
something bigger and one of the things i’ve been saying this a lot lately,
00:41:46 ►
and you made me think of it,
00:41:48 ►
is I’m always saying these days now,
00:41:52 ►
all is perfection.
00:41:54 ►
So even when the screwy note comes out,
00:41:56 ►
off-key a little bit, and you just roll with it,
00:41:59 ►
it ain’t no accident, in my humble opinion.
00:42:03 ►
And it rolls with it.
00:42:04 ►
And, you know know like i said even
00:42:07 ►
non-musicians they don’t know when you screw up oh that was beautiful that was well you know i get
00:42:13 ►
that with my writing sometimes people say to me oh that was really brilliant what you did in that
00:42:16 ►
chapter with this thing and i’m oh thank you very much and i’m like i did that yeah because that’s
00:42:22 ►
how it works yeah so so it’s a wonderful thing
00:42:26 ►
yeah I’m surprised that
00:42:27 ►
when I listen to old recordings
00:42:29 ►
older recordings
00:42:32 ►
I’m surprised
00:42:33 ►
at what comes out
00:42:35 ►
sometimes because when you’re just allowing yourself
00:42:38 ►
to be in the moment
00:42:38 ►
there’s another kind of thought process
00:42:41 ►
that comes on
00:42:42 ►
so I also want to mention we mentioned Aini there’s another kind of thought process that comes on. And, yeah.
00:42:47 ►
So I also want to mention,
00:42:49 ►
we mentioned Aini,
00:42:53 ►
that CD that you collaborated with Tito.
00:42:55 ►
You also have one called Weya.
00:42:59 ►
Yeah, and that’s from the word sacred.
00:43:01 ►
And we sing that song a lot together,
00:43:04 ►
harmonizing in ceremony.
00:43:06 ►
And don’t you have a couple other ones? There’s one called Ceremonia, which was recorded by my healing partner and I, Janet Janae Cipriani.
00:43:15 ►
She’s a medicine woman, very much intuitive and medium.
00:43:22 ►
and medium.
00:43:26 ►
And we have these groups of maybe a dozen people at her house.
00:43:31 ►
And we will play on and around people.
00:43:34 ►
And that recording was a live recording
00:43:37 ►
of a particular ceremony,
00:43:39 ►
a three-hour ceremony
00:43:40 ►
that was condensed into a one-hour CD.
00:43:43 ►
Nice.
00:43:44 ►
So it was a 50 minute
00:43:46 ►
didgeridoo thing going to everybody but I
00:43:48 ►
condensed it into like a 10
00:43:50 ►
11 minute piece I don’t know how you do it
00:43:51 ►
but it’s like
00:43:53 ►
once you circular breathe and it starts
00:43:56 ►
playing you you’re not playing it anymore
00:43:58 ►
I’m telling you something this guy’s like super
00:44:00 ►
human I get worn out and out of breath
00:44:01 ►
just watching him right
00:44:03 ►
I mean Jesus I don’t know how
00:44:05 ►
you do it it’s it’s a it’s quite an instrument but so janae is on that uh ceremonia and that’s
00:44:12 ►
pretty much it’s a healing cd for going into altered states it’s not for driving listening
00:44:18 ►
to all driving right but it’s for uh maybe laying down with an intention and allowing the sound to stir up, to call in and perhaps break up energy that a person’s needing to release.
00:44:32 ►
And Way is a little more upbeat with other musicians that I’ve invited to come play percussion and guitar and charango.
00:44:41 ►
And that was a great collaboration.
00:44:43 ►
Once again, it was all improvised.
00:44:43 ►
and that was a great collaboration once again it was all improvised
00:44:45 ►
and
00:44:46 ►
there’s other CDs that are in the making
00:44:49 ►
right now so
00:44:50 ►
those are the three that I
00:44:52 ►
and your website again is
00:44:55 ►
vivetherapy.org
00:44:57 ►
thank you
00:44:57 ►
and Rene is also on Flakebook
00:45:00 ►
oh did I say that? I meant Facebook
00:45:02 ►
Rene’s on there also
00:45:04 ►
so you can reach
00:45:06 ►
out there.
00:45:07 ►
You also have your music. You’ve got CDs
00:45:09 ►
for sure. I’ve got them all.
00:45:11 ►
Is it on iTunes, is it?
00:45:13 ►
Or you’ve got
00:45:13 ►
downloadable? I think they are on iTunes.
00:45:18 ►
And CD Baby has some
00:45:19 ►
and I’ve got them available on my
00:45:21 ►
website as well.
00:45:23 ►
But maybe Pandora’s has them, I haven’t really checked in,
00:45:26 ►
to see if those things happen.
00:45:27 ►
but you can go to,
00:45:28 ►
vibetherapy.org,
00:45:31 ►
and that’s,
00:45:31 ►
Command Central,
00:45:32 ►
for,
00:45:33 ►
Rene’s,
00:45:35 ►
wonderful,
00:45:35 ►
healing music,
00:45:36 ►
with all of his instruments,
00:45:39 ►
and,
00:45:39 ►
you can find out there,
00:45:41 ►
and between he and I,
00:45:42 ►
with his website,
00:45:44 ►
and Flakebook.
00:45:46 ►
Oh, I said it again.
00:45:47 ►
Facebook.
00:45:49 ►
And I think some of you may be listening for the first time.
00:45:52 ►
But mattpalamary.com.
00:45:55 ►
M-A-T-T-P as in Paul.
00:45:57 ►
A-L-L-A-M as in Mary.
00:45:59 ►
A-R-Y dot com.
00:46:02 ►
I’ve got podcasts.
00:46:03 ►
I’ve got videos.
00:46:04 ►
I’ve got audio. I’ve got videos. I’ve got audio.
00:46:05 ►
I’ve got lectures.
00:46:07 ►
I’ve got some video.
00:46:09 ►
Did I say video?
00:46:09 ►
I probably repeated myself.
00:46:10 ►
I’ve got all my stuff there where you can go.
00:46:12 ►
And there’s tons of content that you can find there, particularly around shamanism and ayahuasca, sacred geometry, all those wonderfully quirky spiritual sciences sciences for lack of a better word
00:46:28 ►
and i also have mystic ink publishing m-y-s-t-i-c-i-n-k-p-u-b-l-i-s-h-i-n-g.com
00:46:38 ►
and all my books are there they’re also on amazon audiobooks ebooks tree books
00:46:43 ►
i’ve got a lot of audiobooks coming out.
00:46:46 ►
So all that stuff is there
00:46:48 ►
and there’s also lots of free content.
00:46:50 ►
And do you have some,
00:46:51 ►
I think you do on your website,
00:46:53 ►
do you have samples of the music?
00:46:55 ►
Yes, I do.
00:46:56 ►
There’s some MP3s,
00:46:59 ►
samples of some of the songs.
00:47:00 ►
Yeah, so you can get
00:47:01 ►
a really good sense of that.
00:47:02 ►
And I’m telling you,
00:47:03 ►
if you’re doing any kind of medicine work, whether’s with the plants or anything else you know whether it’s
00:47:08 ►
roomies or this or that or the other thing um you need to check out renee because it’s got the real
00:47:14 ►
spirit of the work and the energy and he’s uh he’s very experienced he’s very popular uh i like to
00:47:23 ►
kid around about our groupies. We got our groupies.
00:47:26 ►
I think the average age is 85.
00:47:28 ►
But they love us.
00:47:29 ►
There’s some young kids, too, that are coming out.
00:47:31 ►
They’re interested in what we’re doing.
00:47:33 ►
And they’re doing a lot of different medicine work as well.
00:47:37 ►
Should we shout out to our Australian folks that we’re going to go see?
00:47:41 ►
Yeah, we’re planning at the end of October,
00:47:45 ►
we’ll give more details
00:47:46 ►
as time goes on,
00:47:47 ►
but the last half of October,
00:47:49 ►
roughly,
00:47:50 ►
we’re doing a two-week
00:47:52 ►
sound healing tour
00:47:53 ►
in Australia
00:47:54 ►
in multiple venues
00:47:55 ►
in multiple situations.
00:47:58 ►
We’re both really jacked up about it.
00:48:01 ►
And Tim Holden,
00:48:03 ►
I think is his last name,
00:48:06 ►
Brother Tim is doing an awesome job of setting things up for us
00:48:08 ►
and arranging it.
00:48:10 ►
And he’s basically our agent there.
00:48:12 ►
I also want to make a quick shout out
00:48:14 ►
to my bro,
00:48:15 ►
Max Rosenberg,
00:48:17 ►
who actually turned Tim on to my
00:48:19 ►
memoir, Spirit Matters. And then
00:48:21 ►
Tim liked what I was doing and things have evolved
00:48:24 ►
to the point that we’re at now.
00:48:25 ►
Max is a really solid, solid brother.
00:48:29 ►
And we’ve got this thing going on now, which I love.
00:48:32 ►
I call those guys my brothers from down under.
00:48:36 ►
And they call us their mates from the States.
00:48:38 ►
I think that’s so cool.
00:48:40 ►
I just love that.
00:48:40 ►
I love Aussies.
00:48:42 ►
Yeah, me too.
00:48:43 ►
Birdwing Butterfly, he’s a musician.
00:48:45 ►
Another solid bro.
00:48:47 ►
He’s actually taken some of my podcasts
00:48:49 ►
and taken snippets of some of my pontifications
00:48:53 ►
and put them in music.
00:48:56 ►
And Una Moodling.
00:48:59 ►
I’m going to forget somebody,
00:49:00 ►
so if I keep naming names, I’m going to get in trouble.
00:49:03 ►
Exactly.
00:49:04 ►
But I really love you Aussies. You guys are the greatest. And Renee and I are really jacked.
00:49:09 ►
Yeah, we are so excited. About coming down and sharing the wisdom. And the fact that
00:49:14 ►
there’s, you know, we’re going to be in Dij territory. Yeah, that would be wonderful to
00:49:18 ►
meet up with some of the indigenous people there. That’s possible. Yeah, we have a good
00:49:24 ►
chance of that.
00:49:25 ►
Fantastic. They’re trying to arrange it,
00:49:26 ►
and I think they’re going to know
00:49:28 ►
we’re serious.
00:49:30 ►
One of the things I offered was
00:49:31 ►
copies of My Land Without Evil,
00:49:34 ►
because the Aborigines are a little like,
00:49:36 ►
ah, you know,
00:49:37 ►
this whole cultural appropriation
00:49:39 ►
and all the disrespect that they’ve had
00:49:41 ►
over the years.
00:49:42 ►
Yeah.
00:49:43 ►
I said, show them this.
00:49:44 ►
I’m serious about this stuff and that has actually
00:49:46 ►
opened a lot of doors for me because
00:49:47 ►
people realize okay
00:49:50 ►
he’s one of us so to speak
00:49:52 ►
on board with it
00:49:53 ►
it’s a good time in a lot of ways the indigenous
00:49:56 ►
spirit the indigenous wisdom
00:49:57 ►
is being
00:50:00 ►
looked at with much more respect and reverence
00:50:02 ►
than ever before
00:50:04 ►
so it’s good to see that being looked at with much more respect and reverence than ever before. Yeah.
00:50:10 ►
So it’s good to see that being translated across to different cultures,
00:50:13 ►
even in the Native American cultures.
00:50:14 ►
Yeah.
00:50:16 ►
I love that stuff.
00:50:19 ►
I like to say, I don’t get a lot of crap because I’m really serious about and sincere about this work,
00:50:20 ►
but I like to say I’m a dirty white boy from Dorchester.
00:50:24 ►
And if somebody says,
00:50:25 ►
oh, you know, you’re shamanism in the jungle
00:50:28 ►
and what do they think about you?
00:50:29 ►
I say, they love me because I’ve taken everything
00:50:31 ►
they can dish out. They love me
00:50:34 ►
and the spirit is right
00:50:35 ►
and they’re really with it.
00:50:38 ►
You know?
00:50:40 ►
Yeah, it’s wonderful.
00:50:42 ►
And I’m really looking forward.
00:50:43 ►
I’ve got a Wales and UK tour coming up soon
00:50:46 ►
and I know that you and I will be there
00:50:50 ►
at some point Mateo
00:50:51 ►
with my partner Janae
00:50:55 ►
and that’s another reality there in the UK
00:50:58 ►
but I know that that’s coming soon
00:51:01 ►
because my friends have expressed interest in having you join as well.
00:51:05 ►
Oh, wonderful.
00:51:06 ►
And it does, it just fills in the whole…
00:51:07 ►
Thank you.
00:51:08 ►
The whole experience
00:51:09 ►
when you have some shamanic discussion included
00:51:14 ►
with the sound healing work.
00:51:16 ►
You can correct me if I’m wrong,
00:51:18 ►
but we were just talking a little while ago
00:51:21 ►
about how the fact that our skills are complementary.
00:51:26 ►
And Renee, a lot of times when we’re doing the work, Renee likes things softer.
00:51:31 ►
And sometimes I’m a little too hard.
00:51:34 ►
So I think we balance each other out really well in that way.
00:51:36 ►
Yeah, we cover the full dynamics of the show, that’s for sure.
00:51:40 ►
Yeah, we don’t miss nothing.
00:51:42 ►
We get it all covered.
00:51:43 ►
No, we don’t.
00:51:46 ►
So we’re getting close.
00:51:49 ►
We’re getting to our good wrap-up.
00:51:51 ►
So thank you for indulging us.
00:51:53 ►
One more quick shout-out to Eric Cifani,
00:51:55 ►
who’s one of our tribe, Las Vegas homie.
00:51:59 ►
He’s been a really solid supporter for many years.
00:52:02 ►
And thank you, Lorenzo, for having us on.
00:52:04 ►
And thank you for creating and having the psychedelic salon and thank you to all of you listeners for listening
00:52:10 ►
and uh thank you for anybody who’s ever bought any of my books so now after hearing this interview
00:52:15 ►
renee and i both hope you go out and buy every copy of all of the cds and all of my books forever
00:52:20 ►
for everybody you ever know forever to infinity and beyond renee jenkins renee jenkins
00:52:25 ►
okay thank you and uh good afternoon good evening good day whatever your present time space
00:52:31 ►
coordinates are thank you for listening to psychedelic salon thank you for supporting it
00:52:36 ►
i know lorenzo is doing patreon so uh anything you can do to help keep this stuff alive he’s
00:52:42 ►
been known as the pie father and he’s been at it for a long time.
00:52:46 ►
So blessings to
00:52:47 ►
everybody. Safe travels, safe
00:52:49 ►
journeys. Keep up the good work.
00:52:52 ►
All of this stuff that we do,
00:52:53 ►
we do for you. And not
00:52:56 ►
only do we do it for you, but
00:52:57 ►
it wouldn’t happen if it wasn’t for you.
00:53:00 ►
So we hope
00:53:02 ►
you own that. Thank you, thank you.
00:53:04 ►
Blessings to everyone. Blessings to you and blessings thank you thank you blessings to everyone
00:53:05 ►
blessings to you and blessings to you Matteo
00:53:08 ►
for doing this this is wonderful
00:53:09 ►
thank you brother
00:53:10 ►
ok we’re signing off folks
00:53:12 ►
bye bye
00:53:13 ►
you’re listening to the psychedelic salon
00:53:19 ►
where people are changing their lives
00:53:21 ►
one thought at a time
00:53:22 ►
as I was listening to this conversation with you just now,
00:53:27 ►
I tried to put myself in a place where I didn’t know Mateo as well as I do.
00:53:32 ►
But to tell the truth, I couldn’t do it.
00:53:35 ►
You see, after 20 years of having adventures together,
00:53:38 ►
well, it’s just no longer possible for me to listen to him
00:53:42 ►
without so much of his history floating through my consciousness. And while, like he always does, Matt didn’t miss a chance to plug his books,
00:53:51 ►
which are his main source of income, by the way, I’d like to mention three of them in particular.
00:53:56 ►
If you want to read an exciting novel about the conflict between the colonialists and the
00:54:01 ►
indigenous people in the Americas, then his book Land Without Evil is not
00:54:05 ►
to be missed. However, if you are more into a novel with, well, that’s science fiction based
00:54:11 ►
and has virtual reality and ayahuasca all coming together, then you’ll want to read his novel
00:54:16 ►
Nothing. And finally, if you’re looking for a nitty-gritty story of a boy growing up on the
00:54:22 ►
tough streets of South Boston during the 1950s,
00:54:25 ►
well then you’ll want to read Spirit Matters, which actually isn’t a novel, but is a memoir
00:54:30 ►
of Matt’s life. And believe me, it’s a page-turner. But for what it’s worth, to me, Mateo is one of
00:54:39 ►
the best friends a person could ever have. He’s one guy I can always count on to have my back.
00:54:47 ►
person could ever have. He’s one guy I can always count on to have my back. Plus, he’s one hell of a fun guy to be around. And I hope that you caught that wonderful metaphor that Mateo spontaneously
00:54:53 ►
came out with when he said that, in a way, sound healing was like shaking the dust out of a rug.
00:55:00 ►
Well, when he said that, I instantly flashed back to when I was a boy, and my dad would hang our rugs out on a clothesline each spring and fall, and then my little brother and I would take turns with the rug beater and hit them until no more dust came out.
00:55:15 ►
And when Mateo said that, I pictured our rug beater as healing sound, and well, then it all made perfect sense to me. Nice job, Mateo.
00:55:22 ►
and, well, then it all made perfect sense to me.
00:55:24 ►
Nice job, Mateo.
00:55:28 ►
Well, I guess that’s probably about enough of the Matt and Lorenzo mutual admiration society
00:55:31 ►
that you’ll need to listen to today,
00:55:34 ►
but thanks for listening anyway.
00:55:37 ►
Now, right after I sign off,
00:55:39 ►
I’m going to play one of Tito’s songs.
00:55:42 ►
It’s titled Madre Ayahuasca,
00:55:44 ►
and I think that the best way to listen to it,
00:55:47 ►
at least if you’re not at work or driving right now,
00:55:50 ►
is to turn the lights in your room down really low,
00:55:53 ►
light up a bowl of your favorite herb,
00:55:56 ►
and then sit up really straight
00:55:57 ►
and let the music transport you back to some medicine circle
00:56:01 ►
that maybe you once participated in
00:56:03 ►
and see what you remember about it.
00:56:06 ►
For me, Tito’s music always reinvigorates me
00:56:10 ►
with the strength and the purpose that Mother Ayahuasca
00:56:13 ►
has been kind enough to give to me.
00:56:15 ►
It truly transports me, and I hope it does the same for you.
00:56:20 ►
And for now, this is Lorenzo signing off from cyberdelic space.
00:56:24 ►
Be well, my friends. ¶¶
00:59:06 ►
Thank you. Thank you. Chant. Thank you. Choo-ya, choo-ya, ma-dee-dee-do Ta-i-na-ra-na-na-na-na-na-na Ta-i-na-ra-na-na-na-na-na-na
00:59:10 ►
Ta-i-na-ra-na-na-na-na-na
00:59:13 ►
I-ya-was-ka-po-ho-ji-to-i-ma-ta
00:59:17 ►
Cha-mo-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee
00:59:21 ►
I-ya-was-ka-po-ho-ji-to-i-ma-ta Cha-mo-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I love you.