Program Notes
Guest speaker: Sasha Shulgin
Ways to help the Shulgins
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In his next to last talk at the legendary Entheobotany Conferences in Palenque, Mexico, Sasha Shulgin holds forth on a host of topics ranging from his experiences in the navy during World War II, to how he first developed an interest in psychedelic chemistry, and on to a description of the processes and protocols he uses to develop new psychoactive compounds. The talk was given in January 2001.
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Transcript
00:00:00 ►
Greetings from cyberdelic space.
00:00:19 ►
This is Lorenzo and I’m your host here in the psychedelic salon.
00:00:23 ►
This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.
00:00:30 ►
And first of all, I want to thank everyone who offered to help during my recent computer crash and software problems.
00:00:35 ►
And offers came everywhere from Romania to Australia and all points in between.
00:00:43 ►
You guys made me feel so good about having so many friends all over the world that it gave me the boost that I needed to get up and going once again.
00:00:46 ►
And I sure won’t forget you, all of you.
00:00:48 ►
So, hey, thank you ever so much.
00:00:53 ►
Also, I would like to thank Michael O., who made a very nice donation to the salon,
00:00:59 ►
along with our fellow salonners who purchased a copy of my Pay What You Can audiobook,
00:01:05 ►
The Genesis Generation, because your donations also go to support my work here in the salon.
00:01:10 ►
You not only keep the bills paid around here, you also give me the encouragement to keep on keeping on.
00:01:13 ►
Now, the talk I’m going to play today may lack a bit in sound quality, although I’ve
00:01:18 ►
done my best to clean it up.
00:01:20 ►
But the talk was recorded on an old cassette recorder under less than optimal conditions by my friend Matt Palomary,
00:01:27 ►
who I’m sure you remember from some of my Ayahuasca podcasts, in particular numbers 80 and 89.
00:01:35 ►
Now, Matt and I were together in Palenque, Mexico when he recorded this talk,
00:01:40 ►
and at the time, none of us could afford the new and expensive digital recorders.
00:01:45 ►
Nonetheless, I think this recording is significant in several ways.
00:01:48 ►
To begin with, that was the last year of the famous, and I guess some would say infamous,
00:01:54 ►
Entheobotany seminars that were held there for quite a number of years.
00:01:58 ►
There were two one-week sessions, and this talk was given by Sasha Shulgin during the first week.
00:02:04 ►
And so it is the next to last
00:02:06 ►
talk that Sasha gave in that magical setting and while parts of this talk will be of interest
00:02:11 ►
mainly to chemists I think it’s worth listening to if you ever used one of the chemicals that
00:02:16 ►
Sasha formulated if for no other reason than to hear how he first became interested in this field
00:02:22 ►
as well as how complex the work was to develop
00:02:25 ►
these important medicines. After we hear what Sasha has to say, I’ll be back and give you an
00:02:30 ►
update on his health situation these days, which is less than perfect, I’m sad to say. And also,
00:02:37 ►
I’ll explain my reasons for playing something from Sasha at a time when the whole world seems
00:02:42 ►
to be on fire. I think that the great work that Sasha has done can directly contribute to the long-term healing process
00:02:48 ►
that is going to take a generation or more for the brave people of Japan
00:02:52 ►
who are facing a test of courage that few nations will ever have to face.
00:02:57 ►
At least, let’s hope so.
00:02:59 ►
So, without any further ado, here is the one and only Sasha Shulgin at the top of his form one lovely day,
00:03:06 ►
at the top of the hill overlooking the Chan Ka Hotel in Palenque, Mexico.
00:03:11 ►
And I guess I should warn you that Sasha is a really fast talker, and his delivery was always very animated,
00:03:17 ►
particularly when he started walking around and began drawing what he calls his dirty pictures on the whiteboard.
00:03:24 ►
And those dirty pictures, by the way, are molecular structures of various and sundry
00:03:28 ►
chemicals.
00:03:29 ►
So don’t feel badly if you can’t catch everything he says.
00:03:33 ►
What I do hope you will bring out of this talk, however, is the sense of love and excitement
00:03:37 ►
that he has always brought to his work and to his lectures.
00:03:41 ►
Sadly, there won’t be any new talks by this great chemist and dear friend to so many
00:03:46 ►
psychonauts around the world, but through you and the people you share these podcasts with,
00:03:51 ►
Sasha will never be forgotten. And by the way, the word is he is still able to visit his beloved
00:03:57 ►
laboratory every once in a while. Who knows what magical elixir may still be lurking on those dear
00:04:03 ►
old shelves in that rickety old
00:04:05 ►
shed that has served as his laboratory for so long. So now let’s join the one and only Sasha Shulgin
00:04:12 ►
just a moment or two after he began his talk. In the last few decades, an awful lot has happened.
00:04:27 ►
I took me, I worked in the lab.
00:04:31 ►
Hold it, hold it.
00:04:33 ►
But not much.
00:04:36 ►
I worked in the lab maybe four or six months ago.
00:04:41 ►
And I ran out of methamphoride called di-chloride, the phrase methane chloride.
00:04:45 ►
It’s solvent used. It was first introduced about 1955, 1960 when they discovered they could
00:04:51 ►
chlorinate natural gas with a fish oil solvent. It was 10 million in the 40s, and we used it for everything.
00:04:57 ►
And I was out of it, and we had a little chemical supply house over in the local town known as Conkridge called Alpha Chemicals
00:05:06 ►
and so I got on the phone
00:05:08 ►
and I had left the people there before
00:05:10 ►
they’re moderately loose, okay people
00:05:13 ►
they’re provided
00:05:14 ►
essential chemicals such as phosphates
00:05:16 ►
and iodine and the things we use to make the gas
00:05:18 ►
but also solvents and such
00:05:20 ►
we use in a normal laboratory
00:05:21 ►
and I phoned them
00:05:23 ►
and I asked, do you have any cooking cards?
00:05:26 ►
And he said,
00:05:28 ►
let me take a look, just hang on a minute.
00:05:30 ►
He came back in a minute on the phone and said,
00:05:32 ►
I’ve got about four gallons. He said,
00:05:33 ►
from this side, I’ll be over here in a few minutes to pick it up.
00:05:35 ►
And he said, I’ve got a prize for you.
00:05:37 ►
Hi, Annie, I’ve got chairs up here if you want.
00:05:41 ►
Good.
00:05:42 ►
And I’ll be over in a few minutes
00:05:44 ►
to pick it up. She said, fine.
00:05:45 ►
But, one or two in the afternoon.
00:05:48 ►
And then over about 2.30 or so,
00:05:50 ►
and she had four gallons,
00:05:52 ►
and I said, how much is that?
00:05:53 ►
And she said, $120.
00:05:56 ►
However, she said,
00:05:57 ►
we have a little paperwork to do for the state.
00:06:01 ►
I said, okay, fine.
00:06:03 ►
And so she got out these series of forms
00:06:06 ►
that had to be filled out.
00:06:08 ►
What is it you’re buying?
00:06:10 ►
Four gallons of methane fluoride.
00:06:12 ►
Next line.
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What are you going to use it for?
00:06:15 ►
Research.
00:06:17 ►
Next line.
00:06:18 ►
What is your full name?
00:06:21 ►
I moved down my full name.
00:06:23 ►
Next line. I moved down my floor name next line identification number
00:06:25 ►
from state
00:06:26 ►
issued
00:06:27 ►
identification
00:06:28 ►
so I always
00:06:30 ►
when anybody
00:06:31 ►
asks me for
00:06:31 ►
identification
00:06:31 ►
I pull out the
00:06:32 ►
passport
00:06:32 ►
it’s kind of
00:06:33 ►
a dialogue
00:06:34 ►
which I love
00:06:35 ►
getting into
00:06:35 ►
a passport
00:06:36 ►
yes you have
00:06:37 ►
a passport
00:06:37 ►
well no
00:06:38 ►
why not
00:06:38 ►
and I get
00:06:39 ►
this thing going
00:06:40 ►
that people
00:06:40 ►
take weight
00:06:41 ►
checking calendars
00:06:42 ►
and
00:06:43 ►
I love getting into that,
00:06:47 ►
because I find a lot of people
00:06:48 ►
have never heard of passports.
00:06:50 ►
And I say, you know,
00:06:50 ►
have you ever read the last train from Berlin?
00:06:52 ►
No.
00:06:54 ►
And so I always keep this little
00:06:55 ►
harangue going about people getting passports.
00:06:59 ►
And so I pull out a passport.
00:07:01 ►
No, no.
00:07:01 ►
No, no.
00:07:02 ►
She said, by law,
00:07:03 ►
it has to be state-issued identification.
00:07:06 ►
You have a driver’s license.
00:07:08 ►
The only thing I had to see was the identification.
00:07:10 ►
I brought it up.
00:07:11 ►
Government number.
00:07:12 ►
A telephone number.
00:07:14 ►
License plate number on the car I came with.
00:07:18 ►
A payment must be in this way, in this way, but not that way.
00:07:21 ►
Anything bought in the state of California that has anything to do
00:07:25 ►
with chemicals or chemistry or laboratory things that goes over $100 of gold paperwork
00:07:30 ►
has to be done. And so I knew that this had been developed in this way. I was following.
00:07:38 ►
I said, how am I late enough to run into visitors as I leave. And she looked at her watch and said,
00:07:45 ►
I think you’re about half an hour too early.
00:07:49 ►
Anyone who comes and buys chemicals
00:07:50 ►
and is there at 3.30 or later,
00:07:54 ►
the concrete police are down the street
00:07:55 ►
in the corner and stop the car.
00:07:57 ►
I said, there’s a way.
00:07:58 ►
I said, I hope you had a weedy license plate or something.
00:08:01 ►
Where were you?
00:08:03 ►
I was down there.
00:08:04 ►
What were you doing at Bryan’s? And can we use chemicals for? a kind of weeding license plate or something, what are we doing? I was down there.
00:08:06 ►
What are we doing that Branson can reuse chemicals for?
00:08:08 ►
And this is routine in California.
00:08:12 ►
In Eastern California, in this place in California.
00:08:14 ►
And I kind of hoped I’d run into them
00:08:16 ►
and kind of meet people I know
00:08:18 ►
and tell them what I did and do with it.
00:08:20 ►
This is proprietary information.
00:08:22 ►
If you were in Reeds, you’d need my packet of 5-D.
00:08:24 ►
And I’m sure where that one one goes up to a certain point.
00:08:27 ►
I liken it to the point after that point I just want to get out safely and I just stop doing it again.
00:08:32 ►
Not totally, but a little larger.
00:08:35 ►
And Pfizer might have been instantly the same as I was driving back home, four gallons back and forth in the back of the car.
00:08:42 ►
About 65 years earlier
00:08:45 ►
this is my
00:08:46 ►
start in
00:08:46 ►
chemistry
00:08:46 ►
this is the
00:08:47 ►
start of my
00:08:47 ►
talk
00:08:47 ►
my start in
00:08:48 ►
chemistry
00:08:48 ►
is back
00:08:49 ►
I mean
00:08:50 ►
8, 9, 10
00:08:50 ►
years old
00:08:51 ►
and I had
00:08:52 ►
been given
00:08:53 ►
a Gilroy
00:08:54 ►
Gilman
00:08:55 ►
chemistry set
00:08:56 ►
Gilbert
00:08:56 ►
Gilbert
00:08:57 ►
Gilbert
00:08:58 ►
chemistry set
00:08:59 ►
which had
00:09:00 ►
a nice series
00:09:01 ►
of about
00:09:01 ►
12 little
00:09:02 ►
things
00:09:02 ►
log wood
00:09:03 ►
I’ve never yet
00:09:04 ►
found out
00:09:04 ►
what log wood is for.
00:09:06 ►
Something like carbonated soda.
00:09:08 ►
These aggressive chemicals you have to be careful of.
00:09:10 ►
Salt.
00:09:11 ►
Osmere’s like this,
00:09:12 ►
in which you add this to this,
00:09:13 ►
and it bubbles.
00:09:14 ►
You add this to this,
00:09:15 ►
and it turns green or blue.
00:09:16 ►
It’s like this.
00:09:17 ►
And I had this in the basement.
00:09:18 ►
Back of the house,
00:09:20 ►
that door had five steps going toward the street,
00:09:22 ►
and had about 15 steps going downward,
00:09:24 ►
but not four steps into the backyard. At the very bottom of the 15 steps, the door going toward the street and had about 15 steps going downward, but no, not four steps into the backyard.
00:09:26 ►
At the very bottom of the 15 steps, the door going into the basement.
00:09:29 ►
That was my life.
00:09:30 ►
I was not eight years old. I was enamored with chemistry.
00:09:32 ►
I really loved it.
00:09:33 ►
I did everything I could, combined everything with everything, and got all the bubbles and colors I could possibly do.
00:09:38 ►
But I also had a bicycle.
00:09:40 ►
And down on the corner of Spruce and Rose and Berkley, where I live,
00:09:43 ►
if you go down Rose Street, far enough across Chaddock,
00:09:46 ►
down across Rose and down by Roseville High School,
00:09:51 ►
or Dooling High School,
00:09:52 ►
there’s a street in McGee Street,
00:09:54 ►
and to the left on McGee Street,
00:09:55 ►
there’s a place called University Apparatus Company.
00:09:58 ►
I love the place, because
00:10:00 ►
they’re the ones who provided all the chemistry in the university.
00:10:03 ►
They were, in essence, the stockroom provider of the chemicals for UC Berkeley up there.
00:10:08 ►
But also, they’re very neat.
00:10:10 ►
And I go down there in my bicycle, and I pull into the thing,
00:10:13 ►
and go in and talk to them and say,
00:10:14 ►
you know, an eight-year-old kid coming in and saying,
00:10:17 ►
you know, I’d like a can of ether, and I’m out of sodium nitrite,
00:10:21 ►
and I’ve got plenty of sulfur and carbon and things like that,
00:10:25 ►
but I would like to have some of this, some of that, and some of those.
00:10:27 ►
Would you have any of that?
00:10:28 ►
Okay, sure.
00:10:29 ►
Here’s that.
00:10:30 ►
I’ll be going ahead in small bottles here.
00:10:31 ►
I’ll give you a little bit of the big bottle.
00:10:33 ►
Put it over there in a small bottle for me.
00:10:35 ►
And very often I even charge.
00:10:37 ►
This was the core between the university and its supplier and people
00:10:42 ►
and the concept of individual exploration.
00:10:45 ►
This was very real. And I remember that was great.
00:10:48 ►
I knew 50 other people who were involved in the same thing.
00:10:52 ►
We’d explore little things. We’d mix this with this and put a mat to it and we’d get a loud noise.
00:10:56 ►
Marvel!
00:10:58 ►
You add this and this to this and then add a little bit of sodium sulfide
00:11:01 ►
and you stink out the whole neighborhood. Marvel!
00:11:04 ►
It was a great sport.
00:11:05 ►
And there’s enough things that people get a cut
00:11:07 ►
and get cured in a cut.
00:11:09 ►
And that’s what River and K-Scope
00:11:12 ►
really, really
00:11:14 ►
explore. I love physics and chemistry.
00:11:15 ►
Physics was what is
00:11:17 ►
washing soda
00:11:19 ►
and chemistry is
00:11:22 ►
how do you clean glassware. That was
00:11:23 ►
sophistication. But we got much better than that. We found theywork. And that was the sophistication.
00:11:25 ►
But we got much bigger than that.
00:11:26 ►
We found they had a gas tank in the physics lab.
00:11:29 ►
And I found they had some weather balloons back in the other area.
00:11:33 ►
And we’d get together and fill one of these weather balloons with gas from the gas thing.
00:11:37 ►
And tie a long string on it with a little bit of a tarpon on the string.
00:11:40 ►
And take it up in the playground, up behind the thing.
00:11:44 ►
And let it there. Our idea was to light the fuse and let the thing go.
00:11:48 ►
And what’s in the air was the fuse burning up in the air.
00:11:50 ►
That was our dream.
00:11:52 ►
And then it’s all been going, but it never occurred to me that gas was dense with air.
00:11:56 ►
And so this thing would go through the fuse,
00:11:58 ►
and it would go sideways over against the fence.
00:12:00 ►
Then it went off.
00:12:02 ►
You’ve got to criticize your theory.
00:12:06 ►
This was the beginning
00:12:07 ►
of chemistry. The idea of mixing
00:12:09 ►
things and see what comes out of it.
00:12:11 ►
At that time, this was in the
00:12:13 ►
30s. At that time, the only
00:12:15 ►
psychedelics that were known at all
00:12:17 ►
were meslin
00:12:19 ►
and the
00:12:21 ►
component that didn’t have the right structure
00:12:23 ►
of marijuana. The H.C. of marijuana. And before LSD and the component didn’t have the right structure, but he had to go in the right direction.
00:12:25 ►
Of marijuana, the THC of marijuana, and before LSD, before Cotribe, before Cyanosine, before DMT, all of these.
00:12:33 ►
That’s pretty much it. I mean, it was a real… I had no idea what psychedelic was at all.
00:12:39 ►
I was just launched into chemistry. Learning how to… work in the kennedy
00:12:47 ►
i’m quite proud
00:13:04 ►
I’ll try to stand in one place.
00:13:05 ►
It’s good for about ten seconds.
00:13:08 ►
It’s made a long action.
00:13:08 ►
It is? It’s made a long action.
00:13:13 ►
Ah, modern age.
00:13:14 ►
You’re back in the 30s.
00:13:17 ►
They had a little crystal set.
00:13:18 ►
That’s another story.
00:13:20 ►
Oh, in fact, I found a crystal set.
00:13:22 ►
You can communicate by means of Ford spark coil. Oh, that was marvelous. You hit a Ford spark coil and go rattle, rattle, I found a crystal set you can communicate by means of Ford spark coils.
00:13:25 ►
Oh, that was marvelous.
00:13:27 ►
You hit a Ford spark coil and it will rattle, rattle, rattle like that.
00:13:29 ►
And you make a static.
00:13:30 ►
And I could communicate with a friend of mine up on Disney Peak Boulevard
00:13:32 ►
because he had a little crystal set.
00:13:34 ►
It would make noise when I made things down in Spruce Street.
00:13:37 ►
And we’d communicate.
00:13:38 ►
We’d buzz and he’d hear my Morse code and he’d answer my Morse code about two miles.
00:13:43 ►
Never really seriously screwed it, so we’re messing up every radio in between.
00:13:47 ►
It didn’t matter, we did it.
00:13:49 ►
It was a very neatly C-World War II time,
00:13:52 ►
in which there was a very great emphasis on human beings,
00:13:56 ►
and human behavior, human stories, on human going out.
00:14:00 ►
And that evolved into my…
00:14:03 ►
Say I went to school at Harvard in the early 40s.
00:14:09 ►
At Berkeley they had, I’ll get to psychedelics today.
00:14:13 ►
Oh.
00:14:14 ►
You’re doing one of these.
00:14:15 ►
And you have the clock, could you raise your hand since my time is up?
00:14:21 ►
Okay, I have a table, but…
00:14:24 ►
What time did she start?
00:14:28 ►
She starts halfway between when I started and 1230.
00:14:32 ►
Oh, slide rule.
00:14:33 ►
I had a… That’s not a Bertree class in Bertree, often.
00:14:36 ►
Slide rule, I’m just going to calculate time for you.
00:14:39 ►
And I asked this class,
00:14:41 ►
as I usually love asking questions,
00:14:43 ►
I don’t know if I can answer them, what is a logarithm?
00:14:48 ►
And almost everyone in the class brought out from his or her pocket
00:14:52 ►
a calculator. And I said, I don’t know what the logarithm
00:14:56 ►
of a given number is. I want to know what a logarithm is.
00:15:00 ►
And these guys, no one actually knew. They knew how to do things with logarithms.
00:15:04 ►
But they didn’t know how a logarithm is.
00:15:07 ►
And so they said, that’s how a side rule works.
00:15:10 ►
Now one person in the class of 75 undergraduates knew what a side rule was.
00:15:17 ►
Everything was calculated.
00:15:19 ►
In the old days, when they first went to Cal, they had a K and K or K and E or something hanging from their belt,
00:15:24 ►
and they’d go around there, obviously, to engineering. Now they have a little black thing hanging
00:15:27 ►
from their belt, and they do electronics on it. And so I brought in, I borrowed from a
00:15:31 ►
friend, a six-foot-long slide wheel, and brought it in front of a class, and we had a lecture
00:15:36 ►
on a longer-looking slide wheel next to it. Anyway, what I did, I had a, at Berkeley,
00:15:43 ►
they had a process in field, a subject, a, how many people have been at Berkeley, UC Berkeley?
00:15:49 ►
On the campus.
00:15:49 ►
On campus, yeah.
00:15:50 ►
But they had what they called subject A.
00:15:55 ►
You had to pass it to prove you knew the English language and how to put the comma and how to put the verb.
00:16:01 ►
And I knew how to talk, kind of.
00:16:00 ►
to be kind of hurt.
00:16:03 ►
And I knew how to talk, kind of,
00:16:05 ►
but I didn’t know the fine details.
00:16:07 ►
I certainly didn’t know the protocol needed to get through this thing, which was to write an essay.
00:16:10 ►
It was one of the problems, had to write an essay.
00:16:13 ►
And I blew up the whole thing.
00:16:15 ►
Which meant if I went to Cal,
00:16:16 ►
I had to take the course in such a day,
00:16:18 ►
which was a no-credit course,
00:16:19 ►
and once you pass it, in fact,
00:16:20 ►
correctly, you’re absolved of having to do
00:16:22 ►
any more required courses in that area.
00:16:25 ►
And, of course, I took the test, because I didn’t have the essay
00:16:27 ►
satisfactory.
00:16:29 ►
And I was told, you’ll have to take the course
00:16:31 ►
in there. Well, it turned out I got a national scholarship
00:16:33 ►
to Harvard instead. And so I went to Harvard
00:16:36 ►
and couldn’t take the course as an undergraduate there.
00:16:38 ►
It was a total disaster.
00:16:40 ►
But at least I didn’t
00:16:42 ►
have to take such a date course.
00:16:49 ►
And so once I was there, it turned out that I was very much in the minority. I was a little snotty, wise-ass, intelligent, and very independent kid.
00:16:53 ►
And all the other people around me, to a large major, were the rich kids of people who donated to the alumni of Harvard.
00:16:59 ►
And that’s the little social status. And I didn’t get to take any.
00:17:03 ►
And so the Eagle Seals had joined the Navy, which I did, for a few years, Atlantic Oz Land. And there I got my first move from chemistry
00:17:13 ►
into psychological chemistry, mental chemistry. I wrote about this in the first of the books,
00:17:20 ►
but I’ll give you a little background of it. In the Navy, we’re sort of a few days out in the off-the-coast of England,
00:17:27 ►
in the Atlantic, we’re in a submarine detail, looking for submarines,
00:17:30 ►
they’re looking for us.
00:17:31 ►
It was an interesting, not quite dialogue,
00:17:34 ►
but it taught me that there are people who are as aggressive as I am
00:17:39 ►
on the other side of aggression toward me.
00:17:41 ►
So I learned to be modest in my displaying my aggression.
00:17:45 ►
Still aggression is there, but I just
00:17:47 ►
hide much more useful
00:17:49 ►
people. So I was there
00:17:51 ►
and I got this tremendous
00:17:54 ►
infection in my thumb.
00:17:55 ►
And I didn’t know what to do about it.
00:17:57 ►
It was very painful. We had on the
00:17:58 ►
thing called sickbay
00:18:01 ►
and I kept appealing to people there.
00:18:03 ►
I said, no problem, it’s morphine, and that’s fine.
00:18:06 ►
And I was sort of riding the next few days on periodic, quite regular, morphine injections,
00:18:11 ►
which, I mean, the pain was still there, but I didn’t give a shit, it didn’t bother me.
00:18:16 ►
The strange way of putting pain aside, I found that fantastic.
00:18:21 ►
Why is it I have a pain and it doesn’t hurt?
00:18:23 ►
And that blocked my attention a little bit.
00:18:26 ►
And I could see that.
00:18:27 ►
I get a shot of morphine, I could see a card, I could see the plate filtered down below.
00:18:32 ►
It was mostly upstairs listening to the telescope, to the filter.
00:18:36 ►
And then we finally got into Liverpool, and I was being taken off to a military hospital.
00:18:42 ►
But the ship right alongside our ship was a British counterpart of a DE,
00:18:45 ►
as it was called.
00:18:45 ►
It had a full name,
00:18:47 ►
about 300 people between her and me.
00:18:48 ►
Well, it was 106, 200 people.
00:18:51 ►
And so I was a petty officer.
00:18:52 ►
She was fresh on one arm,
00:18:53 ►
but nothing on the half.
00:18:55 ►
I was invited to the petty officer’s booth
00:18:56 ►
before the street.
00:18:57 ►
She said,
00:18:58 ►
I got a sloppy drunk.
00:18:59 ►
And what they were drinking
00:19:00 ►
was a mixture of beer
00:19:01 ►
and very hard liquor.
00:19:02 ►
I forget what it was.
00:19:03 ►
But they’d blend the two together
00:19:04 ►
in a mixed drink. In two hours of that, I forget what it was. But they’d blend the two together in a mixture.
00:19:06 ►
In a few hours of that, I wasn’t very…
00:19:07 ►
That plus the morphine was putting me in a very strange place.
00:19:12 ►
And then when I got into it,
00:19:13 ►
finally took me by ambulance over to some army hospital somewhere.
00:19:18 ►
And they looked at this thing, you’ve got to have surgery on that.
00:19:21 ►
And they gave me, at this point, I remember very clearly,
00:19:24 ►
a glass of orange juice is quite solid for fun. And I said me, at this point, I remember very clearly, a glass of
00:19:25 ►
orange juice is quite solid to find. And I said, they are doping me. They’re going to
00:19:29 ►
drug me. And I’m not going to, I’m going to take it. I’m going to drink it. I’m going
00:19:33 ►
to eat the white solid. But I’ll prove to them I am macho enough not to succumb to their
00:19:37 ►
subtle drug games and make me unconscious or something. So I drank the orange juice
00:19:43 ►
and drank the eight solids
00:19:45 ►
and strictly quit just the way I went out.
00:19:47 ►
I disappeared.
00:19:48 ►
And I came around about 45 minutes later
00:19:50 ►
and they had given me a phenobarb, by the way,
00:19:52 ►
not only a thumb bar,
00:19:54 ►
as an IV,
00:19:55 ►
it was injected as an anesthetic
00:19:57 ►
so they could do surgery on my thumb.
00:20:00 ►
And I was supposed to come out with that in three minutes
00:20:01 ►
and came out with that in a half an hour.
00:20:03 ►
And so they hooked up.
00:20:03 ►
So, okay, they did not realize my previous
00:20:05 ►
web history of that day.
00:20:07 ►
It was quite colorful.
00:20:09 ►
And I asked, what was a drug-defeated mental energy?
00:20:11 ►
They said, that was a drug that was sugar.
00:20:14 ►
And that was my big lesson.
00:20:16 ►
If a half-defeated computer
00:20:18 ►
could knock me out for a half an hour,
00:20:20 ►
I learned what
00:20:22 ►
meant by placebo reaction.
00:20:23 ►
It’s a very real thing.
00:20:24 ►
And that caught my attention in saying saying there are things that affect the mind and the mind’s behavior and the mind’s going on
00:20:31 ►
that cannot easily be explained in terms of chemistry.
00:20:34 ►
And so that got me into the psychopharmacology of chemistry.
00:20:38 ►
We’re just trying to be as best as that can be, but we still have a short term. Got back into, I still haven’t got back to Berkeley, took undergraduate
00:20:48 ►
work with him, chemistry graduate work in biochemistry, and got totally fascinated and
00:20:53 ►
combed the literature. This time, this was in the late 40s, LSD was known, but there’s
00:20:58 ►
still no DMT, no iodine, no propionate, these were unknown materials. But I was intrigued,
00:21:03 ►
what was known.
00:21:05 ►
I perceived mesclun as a hermeneutic,
00:21:07 ►
that there were chemistry, chemicals that were known in mesclun.
00:21:10 ►
I think it was one chemistry, four chemistries were known.
00:21:12 ►
Now there are fifty of them.
00:21:13 ►
In that time there were four.
00:21:15 ►
One was synethymine mesclun, the second was synethymine benzene.
00:21:18 ►
I perceived isoprim and alkaloids.
00:21:21 ►
And I was intrigued with anything that would affect the mind
00:21:23 ►
or the mental control of the body.
00:21:25 ►
I was intrigued with drugs that were known, for example, yohindine.
00:21:32 ►
At that time, I had a tremendous reputation of being an acrobatician.
00:21:35 ►
Well, I was not. I had heard of my virginity in England.
00:21:38 ►
I was not totally a fan of this type of world.
00:21:41 ►
And so I tried, I saw yohind leaning on the shelf of the biochemical laboratory there,
00:21:45 ►
and the qualifiers and all of this. And I gathered that there, and there was a classic.
00:21:49 ►
The classic is big, but the classic is not hard. And that was not satisfactory for me.
00:21:55 ►
I tried four other things that went in the same area, and that’s what I could
00:21:59 ►
remember. Somewhere I got into graduate school, and about this time, DMT had been reported as being in plants.
00:22:08 ►
I was intrigued by what I could see in that area.
00:22:11 ►
A fellow named Steven Zara in NIMH, and I was watching this, synthesized all kinds of neat things that were homologues.
00:22:20 ►
He kept injectors himself and injected his friends, and I was watching this with a great deal of interest and curiosity
00:22:25 ►
about what would come out of it.
00:22:28 ►
It turned out I’d just recently talked to a chemist
00:22:30 ►
who had been a graduate, not a graduate,
00:22:31 ►
who was sort of a cranial post-doc in his laboratory for a year.
00:22:35 ►
So I won’t say anything right now.
00:22:38 ►
But he had for about 30, 40 years,
00:22:41 ►
and he’s still functional as a post-doc.
00:22:43 ►
And he goes to a laboratory.
00:22:44 ►
I’d like to do post-docs at work,
00:22:46 ►
give me a little bit of money, and they say, here, here’s what we’re working on.
00:22:49 ►
He’ll do a tremendously interesting work, learn a lot of chemistry,
00:22:52 ►
publish a paper too, and go to another laboratory in 30 years.
00:22:55 ►
He’s been doing it for 40 years. He’s never had a position.
00:22:58 ►
He’s been a perennial post-doc. He’s an retirement now.
00:23:01 ►
He’s a post-doc for Sara back in the 90s, 30 years.
00:23:04 ►
And he told me, he made a number of compounds, but he had a technician who was doing the, getting the things prepared for microanalysis.
00:23:12 ►
And she was more interested in being correct in her own eyes and getting credit for what’s going on than actually being a correct doc.
00:23:20 ►
She’s not totally honest. And the latter compounds that she had made, or she had assayed and evaluated, were actually
00:23:27 ►
not the amines that should have been tried, but the amides or the acids from which the
00:23:32 ►
amines should have been made or not supposed to be made.
00:23:34 ►
So he told me, he read the little notebooks, I’ve never been able to hold them, I like
00:23:37 ►
to see them sometimes, and he said the last three compounds that she had reported showed
00:23:42 ►
nobody the results.
00:23:44 ►
And the results were, out of injection, they didn’t have any effect.
00:23:47 ►
And so I held this in the bank, and I began realizing there’s a lot of this injectable things that caught my fancy,
00:23:54 ►
but not enough to get me actually into that aspect of the area.
00:23:58 ►
And so I got involved with a very good friend who knew about coyotes.
00:24:03 ►
This is probably the latter part of the 50s.
00:24:08 ►
And one dear friend of mine said,
00:24:10 ►
you know, I got to meet mesophilic sulfate,
00:24:12 ►
would you like to try it?
00:24:13 ►
I said, sure.
00:24:14 ►
Good idea.
00:24:15 ►
That was my, that was,
00:24:16 ►
that aspect of the journey as well.
00:24:19 ►
With mesophilic sulfate.
00:24:20 ►
I was totally fascinated with the appearance of the molecule.
00:24:23 ►
How many people have seen actual sulfate rather than hydrocarbons?
00:24:27 ►
Beautiful. Long needles. Gorgeous. Just gorgeous. The Merck index gives a 60 degree melting point range. It turns out whoever did the original melting had a frightening or no one knows what 60 degrees is. And to show originality and confirmation of other researchers,
00:24:45 ►
everyone who’s ever made it subject to these ice-cold temperatures
00:24:48 ►
gives that same 60 degree range.
00:24:50 ►
They take it right out of the Merck index, jam it in,
00:24:52 ►
oh, we are a little bit higher than that, no, it should have been that, we’ll put that.
00:24:54 ►
So the Merck index number has now been confirmed by about 15 cases,
00:24:58 ►
so to meet it, exactly what you dry it out is not quite as high.
00:25:01 ►
And these are 60 degrees as you can see.
00:25:03 ►
Anyway, that was my first experience.
00:25:05 ►
170 cc and 50 mg of methamphetamine sulfate.
00:25:08 ►
There were about 10 of us together.
00:25:10 ►
About 5 of us took it and 5 of us babysit.
00:25:13 ►
And that is really what turned my whole world around into the area of psychedelic drugs.
00:25:18 ►
The experience started in the morning.
00:25:22 ►
I was very much enamored.
00:25:24 ►
Driving up Hitchland Road to the top of the thing.
00:25:26 ►
They had some weird music on, something with Bernstein on the radio that really, really rocked into me.
00:25:31 ►
I got off the top. My late wife was one of the takers of the experiment, too.
00:25:37 ►
And she and I, getting out of the car on Disney’s Polo Lines, I remember this great, great clarity.
00:25:43 ►
Outside of the car was a gravel edge of the road that went over the fence that went over the cliff.
00:25:48 ►
And that gravel edge had little stones that were red and blue and green and what have you.
00:25:53 ►
Just beautiful cascades of pebbles. All colors in this world.
00:25:57 ►
And the colors were arranged in most dramatic coordination.
00:26:00 ►
Who could have put the time to put this together this way?
00:26:04 ►
Neither of us could get out of the car.
00:26:05 ►
Because to get out of the car we have to step on this artwork and just run.
00:26:09 ►
And so it was big caution. We got out of the car by getting over the stone operation.
00:26:13 ►
And now we’re on the other side. Look back at it.
00:26:16 ►
And the next thing I knew I had seen a little plant was flowering over the side.
00:26:20 ►
And there was a bee.
00:26:21 ►
And the next thing I got planned.
00:26:24 ►
And I went over and watched that bee.
00:26:26 ►
It was incredible.
00:26:28 ►
I didn’t realize bees had great big thick pockets on both sides
00:26:30 ►
and they just fell in and all kind of big bees down in the air.
00:26:33 ►
And I watched that bee and the bee kind of glanced at me and ignored me.
00:26:36 ►
Went on and did its little flower thing.
00:26:38 ►
And I just watched, total fascination,
00:26:40 ►
the interaction between the bee and the flower.
00:26:43 ►
And then the interaction between me and the bee.
00:26:47 ►
I looked at the flower, and the flower was right in that flower leaf.
00:26:50 ►
This is the dialogue I had going.
00:26:53 ►
And it must have been an hour and a half for that bee to collect pollen all that far and swim that way.
00:26:58 ►
I watched this entire operation going on.
00:27:00 ►
Then I got later on over to the flower area, and I got one of these flowers.
00:27:04 ►
And in the middle of this flower, down in the bowels of the flower,
00:27:07 ►
was the most beautiful gradation of color I’ve ever seen in my life.
00:27:10 ►
It went down deeper, deeper, deeper, darker, darker.
00:27:13 ►
But as it went down deeper and darker, it changed color.
00:27:16 ►
It changed color.
00:27:16 ►
It went from one aspect of the spectrum to another, all the way down.
00:27:21 ►
And I kept the flower for a long time.
00:27:23 ►
This is like a souvenir of what went on.
00:27:25 ►
I saw colors that day that, frankly, cannot exist.
00:27:28 ►
I’ve always been reasonably colored-minded.
00:27:30 ►
And all of a sudden, I saw shades and varieties of colors
00:27:33 ►
that were actually unprecedented in my mind.
00:27:35 ►
I can’t remember them.
00:27:36 ►
I still think they’re colored-minded,
00:27:37 ►
but that day is vivid.
00:27:39 ►
It’s a big lesson I’ll have that day at the end of the day
00:27:41 ►
when I got back from the first thing I did.
00:27:43 ►
They’re playing on the radio.
00:27:45 ►
I got back, and I was totally entranced,
00:27:48 ►
and I was totally wrong in what I came to as a conclusion.
00:27:52 ►
I came to the conclusion that this drug,
00:27:55 ►
this mescaline drug,
00:27:56 ►
did extremely powerful, incredible, revealing, open things to me.
00:28:02 ►
And I thought this thing a little bit more clearly,
00:28:03 ►
and I said, that’s what we’re going to do.
00:28:05 ►
This drug is 350 milligrams
00:28:07 ►
of a white crystal salt.
00:28:09 ►
It doesn’t have inside of it these colors,
00:28:12 ►
this understanding, this appreciation,
00:28:14 ►
this awareness, all that.
00:28:15 ►
That’s all in me.
00:28:17 ►
And all this drug does is allow me
00:28:19 ►
to see what is in me.
00:28:21 ►
And let that come out, a catalytic concept,
00:28:23 ►
let it come out of me, what is in there all the time, I’ve never looked at before. So that really is me. And let that come out. A Catholic concept. Let it come out of me.
00:28:26 ►
What is in there all the time I’ve never looked at before.
00:28:28 ►
So that really got me.
00:28:30 ►
And if this little…
00:28:31 ►
No, I won’t use it.
00:28:32 ►
Oh!
00:28:34 ►
Blue on black.
00:28:35 ►
Black on black.
00:28:39 ►
And you’re on a…
00:28:41 ►
Where’d you go?
00:28:42 ►
You’re on a…
00:28:43 ►
Let me repeat.
00:28:47 ►
Okay, I’ll do that.
00:28:49 ►
I started at 930, but they had 10 o’clock up here.
00:28:52 ►
Okay.
00:28:55 ►
I’m going to draw one of two dirty pictures, and then that’ll be it for today.
00:29:00 ►
When I gave the lecture a couple of days ago, I used a great wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle,
00:29:04 ►
and a star in the middle of it.
00:29:05 ►
I said this is a very stable and mildly basic thing.
00:29:10 ►
In this case, it’s a benzene ring.
00:29:12 ►
Here are the two bumps.
00:29:13 ►
I said two carbon separations and a very simple strong base.
00:29:16 ►
See, let’s have a weak base.
00:29:18 ►
Two carbon separations and a strong base.
00:29:19 ►
That’s a mess.
00:29:20 ►
Oh, deep in. So, mescaline is primethoxy-senethylamine.
00:29:31 ►
A very simple molecule, very simple to synthesize.
00:29:34 ►
I went off in the lab and synthesized it with no problem.
00:29:36 ►
That time I was working in a industrial laboratory
00:29:38 ►
at the Dow Chemical Company.
00:29:40 ►
And I was doing a…
00:29:42 ►
Pardon?
00:29:43 ►
Oh, okay.
00:29:44 ►
I was working that time
00:29:45 ►
in a industrial laboratory
00:29:48 ►
called Dow Chemical Company
00:29:49 ►
and when I wrote the book
00:29:51 ►
I ended up calling it
00:29:52 ►
the Dole Chemical Company
00:29:53 ►
I was going to name it
00:29:54 ►
TAU Chemical Company
00:29:57 ►
I thought that wouldn’t be
00:29:57 ►
too subtle
00:29:58 ►
so I went to Dole
00:30:00 ►
instead of the
00:30:01 ►
teacher, Dow
00:30:02 ►
and I synthesized it and by God God, I confirmed, indeed, indeed,
00:30:07 ►
it did what it was supposed to do.
00:30:09 ►
So at this point, I’m reviewing it in the history of things.
00:30:12 ►
LSD now is known.
00:30:15 ►
DNP is just about this stage being discovered as being psychoactive.
00:30:21 ►
So that’s just breaking forth the work that’s going on in the rest of the United States.
00:30:27 ►
UH, he achieved a skill structurally unknown. And I was involved in this, and I began to say, if a simple molecule like this can reveal what’s in me, can pull stuff out of my unconscious in this way, all that happens is I smucked around the molecule a little bit. And a lot of things came out. So what I did, I’ll just point. Here’s a
00:30:48 ►
beautiful thing up here. If you were to put a methyl group
00:30:52 ►
I will do a little bit of chemistry then I’ll get away from here. A methyl group down there
00:30:56 ►
you have put is known in the generic trade as an amphetamine.
00:31:00 ►
And this, amphetamine doesn’t have any of this garbage on the left.
00:31:04 ►
But if you put that garbage on the left and have the amphetamine, you have something, well, what’s up?
00:31:09 ►
Chymethoxyamphetamine, I gave the name of chymethoxyamphetamine.
00:31:12 ►
And the abbreviated TMA, which is the start of a long cascade of letter codes that I started stuffing in literature.
00:31:19 ►
So I made TMA, worked up to where I got acu This acne got quite a bit closer, quite surprised.
00:31:27 ►
Acne, fair amount of color, but none of the drama of meslin.
00:31:31 ►
I still had my little flower left over from earlier,
00:31:35 ►
exactly the same flower, but the same type of flower,
00:31:38 ►
and it was opening ways like this.
00:31:39 ►
It was on the coffee table, which I was enamored with meslin.
00:31:42 ►
I looked at this flower and said,
00:31:44 ►
gee, that’s kind of pretty down in there.
00:31:46 ►
I went to the side of it and I tore it apart and looked inside.
00:31:48 ►
Something I could not have done before.
00:31:51 ►
And I did a few minutes,
00:31:51 ►
tragic, stair-climbing apart, to investigate.
00:31:54 ►
To try and make a point.
00:31:55 ►
Then in an experiment with several people,
00:31:57 ►
who knew Neslin, we got into this sort of thing,
00:31:59 ►
and a lot of new interesting documents came out.
00:32:02 ►
Which is not an all-common suggestion.
00:32:06 ►
And music was involved again,
00:32:06 ►
but of all things,
00:32:08 ►
it was Slaughter on Fifth Avenue.
00:32:15 ►
Slaughter on Fifth Avenue.
00:32:18 ►
Slaughter on one of those avenues where we are on the radio,
00:32:20 ►
which is a very aggressive thing,
00:32:21 ►
and it probably kindled an aggression
00:32:22 ►
with the people who were doing the experiment.
00:32:24 ►
But we ended up not very good friends for a while.
00:32:26 ►
It was a strange change from mess to this.
00:32:29 ►
They said, hey, that’s bringing a whole new bunch of things out of individuals.
00:32:33 ►
And so, you know, she was a certain amount of,
00:32:36 ►
what’s a graceful way of saying anywhere in the universe?
00:32:40 ►
Piconic enthusiasm.
00:32:43 ►
I have succumbed to.
00:32:45 ►
And so if one carbon does that, what about two, three, four, five, six?
00:32:49 ►
And so I just went down the line, and I went to the lab,
00:32:52 ►
and I synthesized two carbon compounds, three carbon, four, five, six.
00:32:56 ►
I was doing the seven, but I didn’t have a starting period,
00:32:58 ►
so I jumped to the number eight.
00:32:59 ►
So I had a whole cascade of white solids along the line,
00:33:02 ►
lower and lower loading points to work to the right.
00:33:04 ►
And I could go through all of these
00:33:06 ►
and see what other things revealed.
00:33:08 ►
So by the time I made the eighth of these things,
00:33:09 ►
I had actually made the second of these things,
00:33:11 ►
and I came to know.
00:33:13 ►
So it suddenly occurred to me,
00:33:14 ►
this can’t be the end of the line,
00:33:17 ►
but it tells me that this is not the direction
00:33:19 ►
in which things will develop.
00:33:21 ►
So I kept the most active of them,
00:33:23 ►
the one with this multiple loop there,
00:33:25 ►
and you have three things on a hexagon, will develop. So I kept the most active of them, the one in this multiple there, and, well,
00:33:26 ►
you have three things on a hexagon,
00:33:29 ►
one end of which is,
00:33:30 ►
hang a hexagon from a Christmas tree,
00:33:32 ►
you have five things around here,
00:33:34 ►
I have things put on this way,
00:33:36 ►
how many ways can you attach three things
00:33:37 ►
to a dangling hexagon on a Christmas tree?
00:33:40 ►
Six ways.
00:33:41 ►
One, two, three, four, two, three, five,
00:33:42 ►
two, three, six, two, four, five,
00:33:43 ►
two, whatever it is,
00:33:44 ►
two, four, six. Six ways of doing it. I made six, two, four, five, two, whatever it is. Two, four, six.
00:33:45 ►
Six ways of doing it.
00:33:46 ►
I made all six.
00:33:46 ►
Made the other five.
00:33:48 ►
I put them along in a row and began assaying each of those.
00:33:52 ►
The very first of these, which is the one I’m going to test today.
00:33:56 ►
The first arrangement is this is three, four, five.
00:33:58 ►
The first one is two, four, five.
00:34:00 ►
I think I won’t trust them.
00:34:01 ►
We’ll talk about that later somehow.
00:34:02 ►
If you’ll let me go from here, nothing.
00:34:06 ►
Here,
00:34:07 ►
probably a better way to do that.
00:34:09 ►
I’ll rotate the molecule upside down.
00:34:11 ►
We have two, four, five.
00:34:13 ►
This is the second one that I synthesized.
00:34:15 ►
They’re called a TMA2.
00:34:17 ►
And it was active, but I was quite surprised
00:34:19 ►
at this activity.
00:34:20 ►
Just don’t doubt this point.
00:34:23 ►
I made the compound,
00:34:24 ►
and that assayed a 2 mg of nothing, 5 mg of, 5 milligrams, 10 milligrams, or maybe a little something, I’m not so sure.
00:34:30 ►
So I took 20 milligrams and I learned at that point that when you find a little something at one level, you don’t double up that level.
00:34:37 ►
So I found myself wanting to get out of the flow of people.
00:34:42 ►
And the only place out of the flow of people was the janitor’s closet that led to the place in there. So I went in the janitor’s closet and closed
00:34:48 ►
the door from the side so no one would stumble across where I was. And I got quite fascinated
00:34:52 ►
with the stuff the janitor uses to clean up things, vessels, soup cans, cartons, all this
00:34:59 ►
stuff. Sawdust with meat in it and oil this and wax that and lubricate your arms. I got totally fascinated.
00:35:05 ►
And the janitors complimented me.
00:35:08 ►
But I was in there for about an hour and a half before I realized,
00:35:12 ►
I think I now can come out and face the world.
00:35:15 ►
And so I learned a good lesson that you don’t just leap up into new levels
00:35:18 ►
unless you have a plan or a retreat or some way of getting out of the flow of things.
00:35:23 ►
So TMA2 proved to be ten times more potent than TMA.
00:35:28 ►
So suddenly I realized that there is an element of potency
00:35:30 ►
that is very real,
00:35:32 ►
and my first approach was to find the most potent.
00:35:37 ►
And I’ve backed away from that.
00:35:38 ►
Now I’ve defined the most interesting,
00:35:41 ►
the most revealing, the most productive.
00:35:44 ►
And it’s nice that it’s potent, because you don’t take as much material.
00:35:47 ►
But on the other hand, potency is almost secondary to the quality and nature of the actual intoxication itself.
00:35:53 ►
So I ran through the other six of them, the other four of them,
00:35:56 ►
and one area that I found to be actually fascinating is they’re all on opposite corners.
00:36:01 ►
If I share this news with you.
00:36:03 ►
It said it’s boom, boom, bing, boom,
00:36:05 ►
boom, bong. If you put it in 2-4-6 position, TMA6, which is the 6 of the 6 I made, it’s
00:36:12 ►
only 3-4-6. Initially it wasn’t. Do you remember that football game at Berkeley, Ann? The Cal
00:36:19 ►
football game you were at? Oh, okay. Do you remember the Cal
00:36:25 ►
football game you were at?
00:36:27 ►
And since we had already checked it and not taken the action,
00:36:29 ►
we took a slightly larger dose of fuel into the Cal football game
00:36:32 ►
or something.
00:36:33 ►
I was in the Cal stadium,
00:36:35 ►
and we both had a 40 or 50 milligram
00:36:37 ►
for TMA system on board.
00:36:39 ►
And about the end of the first quarter,
00:36:41 ►
we kind of wish we were not at the football game.
00:36:44 ►
We came in a very, very distinct manner.
00:36:47 ►
It’s a very, very, not colorful, not motion so much as me, kind of stone, but a good stone.
00:36:54 ►
And we got in there, we got through that safety, and we went down to dinner at Spenger’s down
00:36:58 ►
at the University of Berkeley.
00:37:00 ►
That was not a good place.
00:37:02 ►
Not the one in Texas that we were not.
00:37:02 ►
That was not a good choice. Not that we were in Texas, but we were not.
00:37:05 ►
So it told me that 245 and 246 both are very active orientations,
00:37:13 ►
and not having two lives, we need to have less than 245.
00:37:16 ►
I was living a little bit in the 246.
00:37:19 ►
And it put all the information in the.
00:37:21 ►
And somewhere along the line, I don’t know who it is,
00:37:23 ►
some chemist down the line, maybe 10 years over there, perhaps over at Yonder, or something, is going to find the 246 and say, hey, these things are just in fact.
00:37:31 ►
Why not do the 246?
00:37:33 ►
What got done in the 245?
00:37:34 ►
At least they’re going to find a fabulous area here at Barber College.
00:37:38 ►
But for him to find, I’m off to other areas.
00:37:40 ►
But I went back and used this 245 as, 5 as the, as the, some of the little structural
00:37:46 ►
nucleus, as everybody knows what they do. So having found this, what are you going to do?
00:37:50 ►
Well, methoxy, there is one group large in methoxy called epoxy, E for epoxy, M for
00:37:56 ►
methoxy. So I took each of these three methoxy groups and put an epoxy in each of these
00:38:01 ►
sets of states. And then to be systematic, I took two and two and all.
00:38:05 ►
So I made the six possible ethoxy homologs.
00:38:08 ►
The four ethoxy, the one that’s down opposite that chain,
00:38:11 ►
is the only one that was active, so I separate that,
00:38:13 ►
make the co-ethoxy, butyl ethoxy also active.
00:38:16 ►
Then I began exploring other aspects of this.
00:38:18 ►
I made the methylene deoxy, and while there’s two ethoxy,
00:38:21 ►
with the methoxy, with two methoxy, with no methoxy.
00:38:23 ►
With no methoxy, there’s a known compound at that point called NDA,
00:38:26 ►
and that led to the enmethylation of MDMA,
00:38:29 ►
which is the nucleus that set back in weird exploration,
00:38:32 ►
which in my mind was weird exploration of these various systems.
00:38:36 ►
But the very interesting direction at that point that I found most fascinating
00:38:41 ►
was taking that fourth misoxy position,
00:38:43 ►
and that’s the first thing I said to my ophthalmologist,
00:38:45 ►
take that methoxy off, push it hydrolyzed off.
00:38:47 ►
It could be a metabolic
00:38:48 ►
agility point in that molecule.
00:38:51 ►
I took that four-methoxy and put something on it,
00:38:53 ►
it couldn’t hydrolyze off.
00:38:55 ►
So I took the methoxy off,
00:38:58 ►
and the blackboard, it’s easy in the laboratory,
00:39:00 ►
we start with a little thing,
00:39:02 ►
and made two-five-methoxy for methyl
00:39:04 ►
amphetamine. And so, you know, the situation, have made two-five-diametoxy-four-methyl amphetamine.
00:39:06 ►
I said, you know, it’s a situation
00:39:07 ►
I’ve left out this point.
00:39:09 ►
In fact, I have written a patent
00:39:12 ►
on this new compound a minute ago.
00:39:15 ►
It’s a four-methyl
00:39:16 ►
compound. I said,
00:39:18 ►
it’s a situation you can’t lose
00:39:19 ►
if this material
00:39:21 ►
gets to the reactive site where that is in the brain
00:39:24 ►
and goes into that site,
00:39:26 ►
and is active,
00:39:27 ►
you get yourself a wild virus.
00:39:28 ►
That way, it gets into that site successfully,
00:39:32 ►
and it’s not active.
00:39:33 ►
If you have something that blocks that site,
00:39:35 ►
it might just never win.
00:39:36 ►
Either way, you’ve got to win it.
00:39:38 ►
So, that’s all you need to make the compound.
00:39:40 ►
Made it.
00:39:41 ►
It turned out to be a very, very potent compound.
00:39:43 ►
Long-lived and potent.
00:39:44 ►
Since I’ve taken the oxygen off, I called it desoxy.
00:39:47 ►
I put a methyl group on. I put methyl on, so I called it DOM. So desoxy, methyl,
00:39:51 ►
and desoxy, ethyl, desoxy, propyl, D-O-C-T, D-O-C-R.
00:39:56 ►
But DOM turned out to be an interesting complication in its own way.
00:40:00 ►
I remember I gave a seminar to Johns Hopkins
00:40:03 ►
on this sort of thing.
00:40:06 ►
I was now, I left out.
00:40:08 ►
I gave a seminar to Johns Hopkins and talked about this BLM compound.
00:40:12 ►
And I could have been attuned to the fact there were a couple very magically dressed people in the audience.
00:40:19 ►
You know, long hair, eight-inch-three-pike clothes.
00:40:22 ►
I realized later that they were the new idea.
00:40:25 ►
And they caught the structure of BLM
00:40:28 ►
and they were taking scribble notes and they disappeared.
00:40:30 ►
And I was over in the hate aspirate
00:40:32 ►
at that time in the age of
00:40:33 ►
1966, 67. We talked about
00:40:36 ►
that.
00:40:36 ►
And I was up to medical school
00:40:39 ►
trying to learn
00:40:41 ►
where the anatomy of the brain was.
00:40:44 ►
Medical school. I remember walking through the Hain-Ashbury,
00:40:46 ►
and I remember very specifically,
00:40:48 ►
that day, we were having a quiz later today on the circle of willows,
00:40:51 ►
and I was wondering how many entries there were
00:40:54 ►
around the little circle of willows in the brain.
00:40:56 ►
That was my memory thing.
00:40:57 ►
All around me, people were stoned,
00:40:59 ►
and what they called STP.
00:41:01 ►
I had no idea what STP was,
00:41:03 ►
except it stood for serenity, Tranquility, and Placidity.
00:41:08 ►
No one could say Placidity, so it came out to be Serenity, Tranquility, and Peace.
00:41:14 ►
And the local jargon became Stop the Police, and the police jargon became Too Stupid to Cue.
00:41:22 ►
You had this general thing everywhere. And what had happened,
00:41:26 ►
apparently someone had gotten my lecture of AIDS,
00:41:29 ►
and knew it was a very potent compound.
00:41:31 ►
And made it up, but of all things,
00:41:33 ►
since they must have tried it themselves,
00:41:35 ►
they made it up not in 5 milligram tablets,
00:41:37 ►
which would be a good level,
00:41:39 ►
5 milligrams is quite enough.
00:41:41 ►
You’re into it for quite a while.
00:41:42 ►
They made it up in 20 milligram tablets.
00:41:44 ►
Because they had tried it, and it didn’t come on very fast. And so people were told
00:41:48 ►
it’s kind of like LSD. They take a 20 milligram tablet. And our leader, not much is happening.
00:41:52 ►
They could take a little tablet. We had people coming in and saying, actually, there’s a
00:41:55 ►
40 milligrams on board. I said, there’s 5 milligrams. And so it got a very bad reputation
00:42:02 ►
very quickly, very roughly. And they didn’t know what it was.
00:42:05 ►
I was asked, what is this thing? I have no idea.
00:42:08 ►
It took me six months to uncover that thing.
00:42:10 ►
But it did so.
00:42:11 ►
It did.
00:42:11 ►
It was my D.O.M. some years earlier.
00:42:14 ►
And that was a development in that direction that was rather interesting extension of the psychedelic area.
00:42:21 ►
From that, I said, well, if a mental group does all this. What’s my time?
00:42:25 ►
Am I?
00:42:26 ►
What’s right behind you?
00:42:27 ►
Your part.
00:42:28 ►
Oh, 22-11.
00:42:32 ►
11-11.
00:42:33 ►
I intro roughly 11.
00:42:35 ►
And then we have questions.
00:42:40 ►
Go on, speak louder.
00:42:42 ►
There is a microphone up here
00:42:44 ►
for you, by the way.
00:42:47 ►
I’ll speak louder.
00:42:50 ►
Remind me if I don’t just pull an ought and fade away into the distance again.
00:42:55 ►
There’s no crickets out there.
00:42:56 ►
No, we’re okay.
00:42:58 ►
So I said, you know, if a great big group like a methyl group gets on there and it makes
00:43:04 ►
them lust for a long time and they can’t metabolize off, a methyl group, gets on there and it makes them last a long time,
00:43:05 ►
and it can’t metabolize off, what about putting other things on there that won’t metabolize off?
00:43:10 ►
What happens?
00:43:10 ►
So I put a fluorine, a chlorine, a bromine, and an iodine.
00:43:14 ►
Fluorine, it’s not interesting.
00:43:15 ►
Chlorine, it’s not interesting.
00:43:16 ►
Bromine, interesting.
00:43:18 ►
So I put DOD in.
00:43:19 ►
I called it DOD.
00:43:21 ►
And found an asthmatic compound out of it.
00:43:24 ►
Again, it takes a few hours to come on.
00:43:26 ►
It lasts for the rest of the day and ends the next morning.
00:43:29 ►
And you finally feel it
00:43:30 ►
in the office 24 hours later.
00:43:32 ►
We got to pathway work at Berkeley.
00:43:34 ►
At this point, I had already
00:43:35 ►
dissolved my relationship with industry,
00:43:38 ►
dissolved my relationship with medical school,
00:43:40 ►
and completed what I wanted to do at medical school,
00:43:42 ►
and I got involved with the nuclear medicine
00:43:44 ►
crowd over at Berkeley.
00:43:45 ►
It was marvelous. They had equipment you could not imagine. Something you couldn’t afford to buy.
00:43:49 ►
Cyclotron, gamma scanners, all this beautiful stuff and I worked with people who had the keys to
00:43:55 ►
everything. And we just did whatever we wanted to do. It was absolutely delightful. So we did. We went up to Dr. Connolly’s and put bromine 82 in the DOD, and put the DOD in the ER.
00:44:07 ►
You see, what happens?
00:44:08 ►
You lay down on a scanner.
00:44:10 ►
A little bed moves along across the room.
00:44:13 ►
Under the bed is a battery of gamma detectors that are about 50 years old, gamma detectors.
00:44:17 ►
And as the bed moves over the clock, it’s as if the gamma detector is moving up the body.
00:44:21 ►
And on the screen over there, down comes the, what do you call it, the horizontal thing over there,
00:44:26 ►
and it would show where the gamma detector is swinging, and you see it outlining the body.
00:44:30 ►
And then up to the bed again, do it again, and again, another outlining the body about every minute, you get an outlining of the body.
00:44:36 ►
And when you’re all done, you photograph these, and you run it as time-lapse photography,
00:44:39 ►
and see the dynamics of that chemical, that radioisotope, going into the body. That is what. You put it in there, stand over there, first thing of course
00:44:48 ►
a floppy injection, a little bit of radioactivity around here. You can see the
00:44:52 ►
bladder grow from a ping pong ball to a cantaloupe over a couple of hours because
00:44:56 ►
radiochemicals can be injected in the bladder. You knew that was. And in the
00:45:00 ►
body, about 4 or 5% of radiation went
00:45:04 ►
into the lungs. but not the brain.
00:45:07 ►
Totally fascinating. The activity in the brain is the lungs. The lungs have a lot of neurons in it.
00:45:14 ►
We want all of these things to know that psychedelics turn on mental processes.
00:45:18 ►
Brain, by the stream maybe, but not the lungs.
00:45:21 ►
But anyway, it went into the lungs lung and then after about an hour,
00:45:25 ►
hour and a half,
00:45:26 ►
the lung level
00:45:27 ►
began dropping down
00:45:28 ►
but the brain level
00:45:29 ►
started up.
00:45:31 ►
And apparently
00:45:31 ►
something is going
00:45:32 ►
in the lung
00:45:32 ►
and it’s probably
00:45:33 ►
something that
00:45:33 ►
metabolizes the body
00:45:35 ►
that’s in the liver.
00:45:36 ►
And apparently
00:45:37 ►
the lung is converting
00:45:37 ►
this thing into something else.
00:45:39 ►
It’s still carrying
00:45:40 ►
the radioactive protein
00:45:41 ►
that’s in the brain
00:45:42 ►
and then is when
00:45:43 ►
you begin to turn on.
00:45:45 ►
So the lung is kind of moving and then is when you begin to turn on. So the long-term, the linear, so a lot of the, creating, producing a, a, a, creating
00:45:52 ►
the global compounds of progrom as being metabolized in something that goes into the brain, and
00:45:57 ►
that’s exactly the theory. And this is what, what, what kind of I say, but we’ve never
00:46:01 ►
found it, but it is, but it’s fascinating. Then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then,
00:46:04 ►
then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, And I said, you’ve never found it. But it is. But it’s fascinating. Then someone made the suggestion,
00:46:05 ►
what I bet you did,
00:46:06 ►
you bet you ingested particulate stuff.
00:46:08 ►
And it got caught in the circulation of the lung.
00:46:10 ►
That’s why it’s here.
00:46:11 ►
So we made another batch of it
00:46:12 ►
and swallowed it instead
00:46:13 ►
so it had to go through the gut.
00:46:14 ►
It still went through the lung.
00:46:16 ►
And I’ve got some beautiful photographs.
00:46:18 ►
In fact, that’s how I met this gal
00:46:19 ►
before I met Anne.
00:46:21 ►
She was one of the researchers
00:46:22 ►
at Miller’s lab.
00:46:24 ►
And I have a photograph
00:46:24 ►
of most of us lying on the scene, but in her case,
00:46:28 ►
there’s a different picture of her transparency on the oscilloscope.
00:46:32 ►
It was quite a different shape, but that’s another story.
00:46:38 ►
Then we got into, for seeing further, the ILO compound, totally fascinating,
00:46:44 ►
also long-lived.
00:46:45 ►
Dump dose you can take two or three milligrams or at least all you need. Take a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, aists, is known, being sold commercially, by the way.
00:47:06 ►
DOB got a wild popularity about 15 years ago
00:47:09 ►
and was taken to schedule drug use.
00:47:12 ►
But DOI never found it.
00:47:14 ►
And so there are these companies that sell
00:47:15 ►
neurotransmitter agonists and what have you.
00:47:18 ►
I’ve been looking at these folks.
00:47:19 ►
Three better jobs.
00:47:20 ►
RBI.
00:47:21 ►
RBI.
00:47:22 ►
RBI.
00:47:23 ►
And they sell DOI as a research chemical and once they discovered
00:47:27 ►
it was a psychedelic that was equivalent to price, they sold it to the company as a research
00:47:32 ►
chemical. And DOB is illegal, DOI is totally not good, legally that is. And so if you want
00:47:38 ►
to get some D or L, I can leave you a very easy psychedelic, have a good letter in and
00:47:43 ►
contact me and the company. They were bought by Sigma. They were bought by Sigma. You don’t have to go through the Sigma…
00:47:48 ►
Oh my, I said Sigma, and that thing was bought by Aldrich?
00:47:51 ►
Yeah, well, it’s all one guy.
00:47:53 ►
Yeah, I mean, you have laws against who not to use them.
00:47:56 ►
Okay, that was the OI-13A.
00:48:01 ►
It’s very rattling along. I I still got some time.
00:48:05 ►
What I did, I originally had started with methadone, which had two carbons.
00:48:10 ►
Methadone. Without this methyl group.
00:48:15 ►
So I went back to that phenethylamine entity.
00:48:19 ►
I said, all these interesting compounds are kind of neat.
00:48:22 ►
What would happen if you made the same same thing but with a two carbon background?
00:48:25 ►
And so this I dubbed a whole group of things 2C for
00:48:30 ►
two carbon and went back to the whole thing again. 2Cb, 2Ct, 2Ctt,
00:48:35 ►
2Cb for the global compounds, 2Ci for the
00:48:40 ►
iodine. There’s another example. The 2Cb is is a Schedule 1 drug in the United States.
00:48:46 ►
2C-I is equally potent. Totally unscheduled. A little harder to make, but not that much harder to make.
00:48:51 ►
So these things are out there. Then I thought, you know, another hetero-adm had to be considered was sulfur.
00:48:57 ►
And so I put sulfur in there, and sulfur ethyl. So I called that 2C-P.
00:49:02 ►
Made a whole bunch of these up to about 2025
00:49:05 ►
or something.
00:49:07 ►
And I saw something that was going to be
00:49:09 ►
an unlimited, unending task.
00:49:11 ►
You put murines out there, you put oxygens out there.
00:49:14 ►
Beyond the sulfur, I can make
00:49:16 ►
compounds of fluoride,
00:49:18 ►
oxygen, sulfur,
00:49:21 ►
carbon,
00:49:22 ►
hydrogen, and I took that
00:49:24 ►
and I made an Adam record. I wonder how I make seven, but I and that’s six atoms. That is a new atom record.
00:49:26 ►
I wonder how you make seven, but I haven’t got away yet.
00:49:28 ►
In one second, I don’t know.
00:49:31 ►
And so I thought about T20 or T25,
00:49:34 ►
because I thought it was going to go on forever,
00:49:35 ►
and be totally captivating, but absolutely boring,
00:49:39 ►
before you discover it.
00:49:40 ►
All new compounds in the middle of the atom, but not restructuring.
00:49:43 ►
So I sort of abandoned the T thing, and went to the other atom, of the aqueous, but not restructured. So I sort of abandoned the teaching and went to the other half of the coin,
00:49:47 ►
which is a tiptonium, which had not been well explored.
00:49:52 ►
Here, one more dirty picture.
00:50:00 ►
Again, the other day’s lecture, the wiggle, wiggle star, and the thing inside of it, in this case, is an entirely different type of structure.
00:50:10 ►
I’ll turn it around and shot in a moment.
00:50:13 ►
This material is known as cryptomelon.
00:50:15 ►
And in my eyes, it’s the second half of the psychedelic world.
00:50:19 ►
Instead of the system being a hexagon aromatic stability, this happens to be a two-ring system,
00:50:25 ►
but again, an aromatic stability point.
00:50:28 ►
But two carbons and oxygen nitrate.
00:50:30 ►
Exactly the same type of system as the methamphetamine
00:50:34 ►
is metabolizing and splitting and does all kinds of things
00:50:37 ►
in the same general sort of way to di-methyl cryptamine,
00:50:42 ►
known with an oxygen here,
00:50:45 ►
which is silicone as the phosphate ester is psilocybin,
00:50:48 ►
known with the oxygen out here.
00:50:51 ►
This is the diphotonine that Jonathan was talking about at some length.
00:50:56 ►
And there’s a methyl group out there.
00:50:58 ►
You have sideroxy-DMT.
00:50:59 ►
This is basically what was known at that time.
00:51:05 ►
Let me put a wire over here so I’m hanging.
00:51:09 ►
So, again, what are you going to do with this?
00:51:12 ►
Well, start out with the easiest group to work on, the N-methyls.
00:51:15 ►
An ethyl is known, has to be illegal, because I’ve just said one more of the N-ethyls.
00:51:20 ►
Di-ET is known.
00:51:22 ►
But dipropyl, dipropyl, dildyl, diamyl, cyclopolymethylene were not known, so I made them. that he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he I saw this when I was normal. I made the Inland Eyes for focal cryptomines.
00:51:46 ►
I remember that one very cleanly.
00:51:48 ►
I was in the kitchen,
00:51:50 ►
and I had tried,
00:51:51 ►
I think I took 20 milligrams,
00:51:52 ►
30 milligrams,
00:51:53 ►
kind of looking for visuals,
00:51:55 ►
looking for color,
00:51:55 ►
for artwork,
00:51:56 ►
what have you.
00:51:57 ►
And I heard,
00:51:58 ►
forward, forward, forward,
00:51:59 ►
piece of music in the radio.
00:52:01 ►
And it turned out to be a Britain,
00:52:02 ►
a Britain young people’s guide
00:52:03 ►
to the symphony,
00:52:04 ►
a British and Britain, playing a young people’s guide to the symphony, a gentleman from Britain, playing a young people’s guide to the symphony.
00:52:08 ►
And I was listening to it, and I figured it was probably a Lopetus Junior College amateur symphonic group or something. It was horrible.
00:52:16 ►
It was out of tune, the tempo was okay, a little bit slow, but the music was absolutely, irresponsibly bad. How could you get this many people together in one group and actually…
00:52:26 ►
Well, I had to be a live broadcaster.
00:52:28 ►
They had no one to record this whole thing.
00:52:30 ►
And at the end, it turned out to be a very famous conductor.
00:52:33 ►
And a very famous orchestra playing it.
00:52:34 ►
So we had to explore it a little sooner.
00:52:36 ►
And I took out my fiddle and tried playing a note.
00:52:41 ►
It was out of tune, but I’m okay.
00:52:43 ►
I tried playing a double stop.
00:52:46 ►
And I could not get a double stop in the 2,
00:52:49 ►
where you take two notes at once, without a 2.
00:52:51 ►
The point was all pitches, all sound things,
00:52:55 ►
were depressed in their frequency.
00:52:58 ►
And you heard them as a lower note,
00:53:00 ►
but it was not depressed in a uniform way,
00:53:03 ►
as if you put your celling outside an LP and slowed everything down.
00:53:06 ►
It was repressed in an additive way, in that you took away 43 cycles, so to speak, from each note,
00:53:12 ►
and here’s anything that’s harmonic and totally a-harmonic, out of sight.
00:53:17 ►
And so I began exploring each one. It’s an interesting little thing.
00:53:20 ►
I explored it, indeed, as a statistic, it’s a passageway. There was one experiment on two people with perfect pitch,
00:53:29 ►
and one was with the pitch was stuck with a piano,
00:53:32 ►
and the other pitch was with a sine wave generator,
00:53:35 ►
so you couldn’t argue a harmonic can with the pitch.
00:53:38 ►
And what we did, what was done,
00:53:40 ►
what was done was play a note,
00:53:43 ►
have the person say what the note was, record the note, what it really was, and see what the error is.
00:53:48 ►
And we followed the error like this, and as the gun came on, the error got vague, and then finally came down again, and finally went back to the baseline.
00:53:57 ►
So in essence, we found a way of almost objectively measuring the chronology of the drug affecting the mental process.
00:54:05 ►
It’s fascinating. Wait, nobody knows what the hell use is this. Well, my first thought
00:54:10 ►
was that everyone was complete in a blind audition for a pricey instrument. And I say
00:54:16 ►
I was a social teleplayer and the guy on the other side of the street was maybe a little
00:54:20 ►
bit better at teleplaying. I put some of this in his coffee.
00:54:27 ►
better so I put some of this in this coffee.
00:54:31 ►
What it is, this stands out as being a material that affects the auditory. I’d love to take the compound,
00:54:35 ►
that was two isopropyl groups, and got the mucosus.
00:54:38 ►
What’s the mucosus? It’s a different compound entirely.
00:54:40 ►
I would love to get that and put a carbon-11 in there.
00:54:43 ►
And get it in the brain, and we also have the keys in the positron,
00:54:47 ►
the thermography camera, and how to make carbon-11,
00:54:49 ►
it’s very simple, you go to the positron,
00:54:51 ►
and you can make carbon-11 in about a few hours.
00:54:53 ►
Get carbon-11 into this molecule somewhere,
00:54:55 ►
I’m not quite sure where I put it,
00:54:57 ►
maybe on an isotope, I hope it saves,
00:54:59 ►
and get it into the brain, and see where it goes in the section of the brain,
00:55:03 ►
because it doesn’t go to the ventral, it goes to the auditory. And, golly, you know, half the people are learning, more
00:55:07 ►
than half. So, see things, they don’t see things, they hear things. I’m telling you
00:55:12 ►
the way I talk to God, there’s this kind of thing. Auditory, not visual. And so maybe
00:55:17 ►
you can find between people who are normal and people who are schizophrenic, a thing
00:55:21 ►
that could use this as a call to determine the localization of the auditory distortions that are sometimes a symptom of nervous illness.
00:55:31 ►
Never, never done it, but we still have to do it some day.
00:55:33 ►
Pursue it on. The methoxy, the hydroxy group, we have four positions.
00:55:38 ►
The psilocybin thing, I’ve always been intrigued by it.
00:55:43 ►
Psilocybin, psilocybin, we’ve talked about this in the mushroom world, and in animals, psilocybin has a great big horrible water soluble hydrophilic group on the oxygen.
00:55:55 ►
And out here is a very hydrophilic ammonium ion at the end of the chain, and that’s the monium ion.
00:56:01 ►
Forms a thing that is very water soluble, but in the body of animals
00:56:05 ►
at least, the sound of that big phosphate group can be ripping right off and what’s
00:56:09 ►
left is the hydroxide in the wall and in the active material, certainly in the man, is
00:56:15 ►
still connected to the same activity of psilocybin. And just about 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 months ago, a
00:56:20 ►
work was done in Switzerland, it shows that in man, that phosphate comes off of the active
00:56:24 ►
material of psilocybin. Someone asked glyphosate that comes off of the active enameled solid.
00:56:25 ►
Someone asked me the other day
00:56:26 ►
about the stability of the alcohol solution
00:56:29 ►
of psilocybin.
00:56:30 ►
I said quite casually it would be quite stable.
00:56:32 ►
And the reason is because methanol in alcohol
00:56:33 ►
is very often used for extracting
00:56:35 ►
the psilocybin from milk.
00:56:37 ►
It’s a water soluble extract,
00:56:39 ►
a beautiful white crystal solid.
00:56:41 ►
The free enol, the free enamel,
00:56:47 ►
can be used quite easily. You may keep it in the cold, in the dark, in, in, uh, in the inert atmosphere, and it still discolors quite rapidly.
00:56:54 ►
And it’s solid fluid, quite easily.
00:56:56 ►
So, I made some of those, I made groups out in a five position.
00:57:00 ►
To explore it further, I discovered that if you, uh, cut the groups down in here, you don’t need these at all.
00:57:09 ►
You need material-tested methyl group here. In fact, this compound is an interesting one.
00:57:15 ►
This, rather than the 5-methoxy-alcimethyltryptamine, I took advantage. I will draw one more to
00:57:21 ►
read for you if you could put up with it. This is the factor of serotonin, which is
00:57:24 ►
one of the major transmitters,
00:57:26 ►
more transmitters and functional of the brain,
00:57:28 ►
the serotonin thing.
00:57:30 ►
And so this, I said,
00:57:31 ►
why, you know, serotonin is a neat,
00:57:33 ►
everyone talks about serotonin,
00:57:34 ►
serotonin is kind of neat
00:57:37 ►
because everyone talks about it being
00:57:39 ►
the thing that is important in the brain,
00:57:41 ►
the thing, the axons of which are chewed up
00:57:43 ►
by MDMA in animals, the thing that is important in the brain, these things, the axons of which are chewed up by MDMA in animals, and these things that might possibly contribute to human troubles with
00:57:49 ►
excessive MDMA use, and this is very much a sad man, but it’s certainly a real possibility.
00:57:55 ►
And if serotonin, if you put serotonin into the bloodstream, none of it gets in the brain.
00:58:00 ►
It doesn’t get in the brain because it’s got a great big polar group at the right hand end which is hydrolyzed off
00:58:07 ►
by the monomane oxidases
00:58:08 ►
and it’s got a great big polar OH group
00:58:11 ►
at the other end of the brain that’s more assignment
00:58:12 ►
it doesn’t like to go through blood brain barriers
00:58:14 ►
and so I said why not make this
00:58:17 ►
compound so it will go
00:58:19 ►
through the blood brain barrier
00:58:20 ►
so whereas
00:58:22 ►
phenethylamine is deaminated
00:58:24 ►
with a methyl group there, it will not be
00:58:26 ►
deaminated anymore.
00:58:27 ►
So this protects it from enzymatic destruction, and in the case of the hydroxy group, I put
00:58:32 ►
a methoxy group on it, which makes it semi-not-poor and should go to the degree okay with that.
00:58:38 ►
So I named this compound alpha-O-dimethylserotonin, BMS, MS and it added the substance caution and
00:58:46 ►
discovered that it is extraordinary for the truth in the brain taking orange in
00:58:50 ►
the brain so this is a very easy compound it’s ordered quite a bit I had
00:58:56 ►
more people at least our first trial almost everyone in our research group
00:59:02 ►
has rather vivid not, not very nice nightmares.
00:59:05 ►
Buildings falling down, cracks opening the earth, people falling into
00:59:10 ►
casus, casus, there is no reason. Bad. My case I had
00:59:15 ►
a very marvelous nightmare in which the adventurer and everyone died.
00:59:20 ►
But it was a neat one. I mean it was a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of exciting day for everyone uh… it was a uh…
00:59:25 ►
were all of you in California having these crack
00:59:27 ►
these crack times?
00:59:28 ►
oh but most of the time sister
00:59:29 ►
of course
00:59:30 ►
that’s okay
00:59:31 ►
uh… the uh…
00:59:34 ►
my memory of mine is when I got that nightmare
00:59:36 ►
I said that was a very
00:59:37 ►
and that’s when I woke up
00:59:39 ►
with a dream
00:59:39 ►
a very vivid dream
00:59:42 ►
I said don’t worry I’ll light it up later
00:59:44 ►
and I did about 10 or later. And I did.
00:59:46 ►
And about 10 or 15 years later,
00:59:48 ►
they said, the time has come to light up that light here.
00:59:51 ►
And I’ve been with every DC letter for 15 years with no notes.
00:59:54 ►
And I’ve written a chapter in the second book called, uh,
00:59:57 ►
uh, the, uh, the Pants Off, you know, that was…
01:00:00 ►
Pants Off. Pants Off is my slang name for the Pants Opistry. church of pants off the thing i lived in my notes were called their ass
01:00:09 ►
anyway i wrote that thing up and everyone died at the end of the little scene but there’s a
01:00:15 ►
fun thing to reconstruct out of memory from that dream i don’t remember the name but 15 years later
01:00:21 ►
that dream was still so good and It was totally written for a movie.
01:00:26 ►
Entries here, entries there, people coming in, people going out, dialogue.
01:00:30 ►
I thought it was an absolutely fascinating topic.
01:00:33 ►
Anyway, made those alpha groups,
01:00:36 ►
rather little areas that’s not being explored at all.
01:00:39 ►
If you put a methyl group down in here,
01:00:41 ►
you block it from monomane oxidase inhibition,
01:00:43 ►
so things become more early active.
01:00:46 ►
Acetyl groups down in here come off block it from monomane oxidase inhibition, so things become orally acetyl. Acetyl down in here come off very readily in service.
01:00:49 ►
Unstable.
01:00:50 ►
All these inhibits.
01:00:52 ►
What else have they done in the 15 area?
01:00:54 ►
Put a lot of the same stuff together in C-COL.
01:00:56 ►
Not as extensive a collection
01:00:57 ►
of compounds as in C-COL.
01:00:59 ►
On the other hand, I haven’t done much work with it.
01:01:01 ►
I think in many ways, the generality
01:01:03 ►
of penethylenines, for people who love the penethylenines and done as much work with it. I think in many ways, the generality… Phenethylamines…
01:01:06 ►
There are people who love the phenethylamines and don’t carry that much of the tryptamines.
01:01:09 ►
Vice versa.
01:01:10 ►
People who love the tryptamines, it’s a region area, you go and settle some of them, you’re kind of dull.
01:01:14 ►
To me, phenethylamines, rather than being dull, are warm, earth-like, pale brown, friendly things
01:01:20 ►
without a great deal of drama and trauma.
01:01:23 ►
To me, tryptamines are vital, moving, dramatic things
01:01:27 ►
without the war of the earth’s life.
01:01:29 ►
I find the books and the brain things are quite different
01:01:32 ►
in the nature of their general quality of being.
01:01:36 ►
Okay, where am I?
01:01:37 ►
Why am I here?
01:01:40 ►
You know why I’m here.
01:01:41 ►
I’m here as vice president with the guy with the big ears in Texas.
01:01:50 ►
Ross Perot.
01:01:51 ►
Who was his vice president?
01:01:54 ►
Was it a general or an admiral?
01:01:55 ►
Admiral Stockdale.
01:01:59 ►
He’s the one who started this, who am I and why am I here?
01:02:02 ►
Beautiful TV introduction.
01:02:05 ►
No one
01:02:06 ►
got a valid answer to that.
01:02:08 ►
I happen to know the person
01:02:09 ►
who’s a member of the crowd in San Francisco.
01:02:12 ►
He is relatively
01:02:13 ►
dull, even in real life.
01:02:18 ►
What else is here? I’ve done not a
01:02:20 ►
great deal outside of the area.
01:02:21 ►
Made a few analogs with TCT.
01:02:24 ►
Never played with ketamine at all.
01:02:27 ►
THC is now known as…
01:02:28 ►
Oh, I have an interesting thing with THC.
01:02:29 ►
This is a non-microcosm component of marijuana.
01:02:32 ►
I think some of you have heard of the drug.
01:02:33 ►
It’s not actually explored.
01:02:36 ►
I was in a very interesting situation.
01:02:39 ►
Timeline.
01:02:41 ►
Three minutes.
01:02:41 ►
You’re going to be on soon.
01:02:44 ►
I was… When I was still at NAL, I was bringing in some visits concerning marijuana.
01:02:50 ►
Some people came out and they drew on a blackboard things called atoms, nines, carbons, compounds.
01:02:56 ►
It’s an analog of THC. And they drew a cascade of reactions on this side on the blackboard.
01:03:01 ►
These people I can remember from Edward R. Smith, which is a chemical warfare crowd of the Army. And they do a bunch of stuff
01:03:08 ►
on this side, but the compound that was the summation of these two lines of reasoning
01:03:12 ►
could not be drawn, because they could not admit they were interested in it, because it was classified
01:03:16 ►
and they didn’t want to violate classification.
01:03:20 ►
But they wanted to ask people, they were going to give industry and industry-based people ideas
01:03:24 ►
how best to do this, how best to do this, without mentioning what the product was.
01:03:28 ►
And so I happened to be invited up in there, so I’m just kind of bouncing around.
01:03:31 ►
I said, well, what you’re doing here is you’re trying to make added carbon compounds.
01:03:36 ►
And they said, oh, my God, this practice is even longer.
01:03:40 ►
But they knew what I was talking about.
01:03:41 ►
I said, well, you can’t just make that.
01:03:43 ►
You’ve got to introduce new chiral centers, and you’ve got an 8 different isotopes that can be made,
01:03:47 ►
isomers can be made, you’ve got to make all 8 isomers of the pair one with the other.
01:03:51 ►
So it’s better to just put an isomer in the molecule, and you have an alkaloid,
01:03:54 ►
and you’ll get your active component without having to worry about that.
01:03:57 ►
Dead sad. I was, um, actively eating the nice rice.
01:04:01 ►
I got out, the conversation went on.
01:04:04 ►
About a month later, my father was left as a widower.
01:04:07 ►
It was my mother’s death, me and my ex-wife, and my son, and I went on a trip over to Europe to spend a year in France.
01:04:15 ►
And as we were going through the Caribbean, over near Trinidad, I got a knocking on the door.
01:04:20 ►
It was a cabin about four steps down, no outside light at all.
01:04:24 ►
And the radio man, who seemed quite cozy later, said, I got a weird message for you, a radio
01:04:30 ►
message from RCD Little Company, an outfit in Boston, and he gave it to me, and here
01:04:38 ►
is his argument, please, when you get to the treatment lab, give us a phone call, our number
01:04:42 ►
is such and such, reverse call.
01:04:45 ►
Okay, I went back to bed about five minutes later
01:04:48 ►
and I another knock on the door. Again, the radio man. I got another message. It’s exactly
01:04:52 ►
the same. Don’t bother with it. It’s the same thing. It’s sent in duplicate. Thank you. I went back
01:04:56 ►
to bed. This day we called in Trinidad and I got into a phone loop
01:04:59 ►
and called this number in Massachusetts, R.C. Little. And he said,
01:05:03 ►
we’re very interested in some comment you made to some people we are doing contract work with
01:05:08 ►
about putting nitrogen into tetrahydrocannabinol as the active component of marijuana
01:05:13 ►
and maybe making alkaloid out of it.
01:05:16 ►
I believe the nitrogen position you mentioned was such and such.
01:05:18 ►
And I said, yeah, that was it.
01:05:19 ►
He said, how would you make that contract?
01:05:21 ►
I said, I’d go to the literature and see how parallel things are made and write it out from that.
01:05:26 ►
Well, I said, you’re going to be landing in London in about 7 days and 24 hours and 23 minutes or something.
01:05:33 ►
They knew exactly when it was going to be there. When you get there, would you please express mail to us from such and such
01:05:39 ►
your entire synthetic plans for this particular alkaloid thing and we appreciate getting
01:05:45 ►
them at that time because we have to file our package within another 24 hours. So here I am
01:05:50 ►
on the Tucson, a big P&O line, I think it doesn’t exist anymore, passenger ship going across the
01:05:58 ►
Atlantic. The only library I have access to is the library up in the
01:06:03 ►
passengers library which had an old copy of the Thesaurus and not much else. And here I’m supposed to is the library up in the passengers library, which had an old copy of
01:06:05 ►
the Soros and not much else. And here I’m
01:06:08 ►
supposed to write a several page synthetic
01:06:09 ►
process for synthesizing
01:06:11 ►
an alkaloid analog of THC.
01:06:14 ►
So I started retired and went back into
01:06:15 ►
photographic memory and pulled stuff out of the
01:06:17 ►
German minister on the
01:06:19 ►
high-convection. And I wrote out about a 10 or 12
01:06:22 ►
page plan and got
01:06:23 ►
into England, emailed, not emailed,
01:06:25 ►
it wasn’t emailed at the time, it was fastmail, over from England to Massachusetts. They got
01:06:30 ►
it just in time, they filed for the patent, the patent was issued, finding the Bristol,
01:06:34 ►
I think the Bristol-Myers or Bristol Central Laboratory, and when I got back, I was given
01:06:41 ►
the dollar for having been an author on a patent.
01:06:50 ►
So at that time, you didn’t share the rewards of the patent.
01:06:54 ►
You got a dollar for having been employed and contributed a patent.
01:06:58 ►
And it turned out you always had a little deal with the patent officer in the company.
01:07:02 ►
And you flip a coin, and the king says, he took your dollar.
01:07:04 ►
The king tells you he paid max value.
01:07:04 ►
You got $2.
01:07:07 ►
He either had 2.
01:07:09 ►
That’s the only patent he got in the industry at that time.
01:07:12 ►
And the thing actually went ahead into about phase two with the big company in Chicago, Allied.
01:07:15 ►
Allied, or something close to Allied Pharmaceuticals.
01:07:18 ►
And it got to phase two and never went anywhere beyond that.
01:07:20 ►
An ancient compound, but it was a malformation of alkaloid and TH THC which I was totally enamored with and it was not a very interesting
01:07:27 ►
combination and in general I found if you have the missing compounds and
01:07:31 ►
learning compound you try to bring them together and make a bigger crisis
01:07:35 ►
engine compound is dull so it falls apart and nothing stick with what you
01:07:40 ►
got and modify it and play with it and it is the hour. And open for questions.
01:07:46 ►
And when I’m done, Ann will come up and bring it to you.
01:07:48 ►
Thank you.
01:07:49 ►
Thank you.
01:07:58 ►
You’re listening to The Psychedelic Salon,
01:08:01 ►
where people are changing their lives one thought at a time.
01:08:25 ►
And unfortunately, Matt’s tape ran out, where people are changing their lives one thought at a time. room at the top of the hill overlooking the Chan Ka Hotel, well, it sure brought me right back to those wonderful days in Palenque.
01:08:28 ►
I guess that the one feature of those conferences I enjoyed most was that for a week everyone
01:08:33 ►
lived together in cabins in a little village-like setting, and all of our meals were shared
01:08:38 ►
in the hotel’s open-air dining room up above the pool, where some of the talks were held
01:08:44 ►
at the bottom of the pool and
01:08:46 ►
that meant that there was always a lot of interaction between the attendees and the
01:08:50 ►
presenters. I guess it was a day or so after the talk we just heard that there was an afternoon
01:08:56 ►
session at the foot of the pool that I decided to skip and do, well, what shall I say, some personal
01:09:03 ►
explorations. So I was sitting at the little outdoor seating area just off the dining room
01:09:08 ►
and looking down in the pool where the lecture was going on
01:09:11 ►
when a hummingbird that was working its way from one flower to the next
01:09:15 ►
on the big banana trees planted just below where I was sitting,
01:09:19 ►
well, it came and began to examine me up close.
01:09:22 ►
It was a really spectacular experience
01:09:25 ►
that lasted for several minutes
01:09:27 ►
with that beautiful bird just a few inches away from my face.
01:09:31 ►
It was a magical moment indeed.
01:09:33 ►
But as soon as the bird flew away and went back to the flowers,
01:09:37 ►
I heard Sasha’s voice behind me saying,
01:09:39 ►
You must be giving off some very good vibrations.
01:09:42 ►
What are you on?
01:09:44 ►
And then he sat down next to me,
01:09:46 ►
and for the next hour or so, we talked about how similar his experiences in the Navy were during
01:09:51 ►
World War II to mine during the American War in Vietnam. And we talked about other things as well,
01:09:57 ►
but not about chemistry, mainly because I don’t remember a thing from my chemistry courses in
01:10:02 ►
college, and I didn’t think I could fake it with him.
01:10:05 ►
But as soon as the talk down below us finished, it was like Sasha was this powerful magnet,
01:10:11 ►
because before long, dozens of our friends joined us, and the talk immediately shifted
01:10:16 ►
to chemistry.
01:10:17 ►
With us that year were several world-class chemists, some of whose tasty treats I’m sure
01:10:23 ►
that many of our fellow salonners have now enjoyed.
01:10:26 ►
And they began the discussion with Sasha that may or may not have led to some of the new compounds
01:10:31 ►
floating around these days. But I didn’t understand the word that they were saying.
01:10:35 ►
They may as well have been conversing in Chinese as far as my comprehension was concerned.
01:10:40 ►
But that’s not really what I wanted to mention in closing today’s podcast.
01:10:47 ►
Last week, as you know, after a long break I finally got a new program out
01:10:49 ►
And I mentioned all that had happened in the weeks that I’d been away
01:10:53 ►
Then, the very next day after I posted the program
01:10:56 ►
The earthquake and tsunami hit Japan
01:10:58 ►
And the world changed even more
01:11:01 ►
To say that my heart goes out to the valiant Japanese people is an understatement.
01:11:06 ►
I can’t even watch the news from there without crying, particularly for the young children whose
01:11:12 ►
lives are going to be forever shaped by this unimaginably horrific event. Now, I realize that
01:11:19 ►
governments around the world have marginalized the important medicine that Sasha Shulgin reintroduced to the
01:11:25 ►
world, namely MDMA, whose street name is ecstasy. But perhaps it’s time for some intelligent people
01:11:32 ►
in Japan to take a close look at the work that Dr. Michael Mithoffer and his wife Annie have done
01:11:38 ►
treating post-traumatic stress disorder using MDMA, along with professional psychotherapy.
01:11:44 ►
Even the U.S. Pentagon has now approved Dr. Mithoffer’s study protocol
01:11:48 ►
for returning veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
01:11:52 ►
And for years, the psychedelic community has known about what a potent medicine MDMA can be
01:11:57 ►
when administered by trained therapists.
01:12:00 ►
In fact, Myron Stolaroff even wrote a book about it in 1997 titled The Secret Chief.
01:12:06 ►
And I can tell you from first-hand experience that MDMA, when used in therapy, can work miracles for people suffering from PTSD.
01:12:17 ►
I won’t bore you with the details, but I’m here to tell you that had MDMA never come into my life,
01:12:22 ►
I’m sure that you and I wouldn’t be here together in cyberdelic space right now.
01:12:27 ►
Sadly, there are severe penalties for anyone who treats patients with MDMA outside of the one or two approved studies taking place right now.
01:12:36 ►
And while I’ve been told that it is even against the laws in some places to advocate using an illegal substance, I would be remiss in not pointing out the obvious fact
01:12:45 ►
that a significant number of people in Japan will most likely now be PTSD victims,
01:12:51 ►
and that there actually is a way to relieve the emotional distress associated with that disease.
01:12:57 ►
Hopefully, word of this potential miracle drug will one day find its way to people in Japan
01:13:03 ►
who are in a position to, at the very least, begin some research into ways that they can help their brothers and sisters recover their emotional well-being.
01:13:11 ►
And that is equally true for the good people of New Zealand, Australia, and the other places around the globe that have also had unfriendly visits by Mother Nature.
01:13:20 ►
Not to mention the millions of brave souls in the Middle East who are struggling for freedom itself
01:13:25 ►
we’re with you all and I hope you can find peace again before too long
01:13:30 ►
now I’ll close with just a quick word about Sasha’s health
01:13:35 ►
and the best place to keep up with his current situation
01:13:39 ►
is through their Facebook page
01:13:40 ►
where Ann Shulgin is posting some long and very beautifully written posts.
01:13:46 ►
And here’s the beginning of her most recent one, which was on the 10th of March, 2011.
01:13:51 ►
Ann begins,
01:13:53 ►
Now, as to Sasha’s state of brain and mind, as you know, he has mild dementia,
01:13:58 ►
which is the reason we have round-the-clock care.
01:14:01 ►
For a couple of years, he was taking two drugs I don’t want to try to
01:14:06 ►
pronounce badly. They are A-R-I-C-E-P-T and N-A-M-E-N-D-A. They look easy to say, but I couldn’t do it.
01:14:15 ►
Anyway, she goes on, which may or may not have helped slow the process, but which obviously
01:14:21 ►
weren’t doing much of anything recently. Our new doctor, Paul Abramson, decided to take him off those and put him on hydrogen, Albert Hoffman’s compound.
01:14:30 ►
That was about three weeks ago.
01:14:32 ►
I didn’t expect any obvious results, and of course one never knows if a state of dementia is being slowed down.
01:14:39 ►
I mean, how would you tell?
01:14:40 ►
So, when Dee, one of our miraculous Tibetan women, told me that Sasha was suddenly doing
01:14:46 ►
certain little things, like feeding himself, which he hadn’t been doing before, I said,
01:14:51 ►
what, he is, or something like that, and she listed a few other things that he was doing
01:14:56 ►
better, all of which was astonishing.
01:14:59 ►
Clearly, the hydrogen has been changing things.
01:15:02 ►
He takes it three times a day.
01:15:07 ►
Then, after a bit more news, Anne continues,
01:15:12 ►
I’m sure you’ll understand when I say that what matters to me most is being relieved of the constant anxiety about how we’re going to afford to keep Sasha at home
01:15:17 ►
with the excellent and loving care he’s getting from our three graces.
01:15:21 ►
By the way, Sasha’s increase in physical strength,
01:15:24 ►
his ability to walk now
01:15:25 ►
with a cane instead of a walker, is entirely due to the women who take care of him and put him
01:15:30 ►
through exercises all day long, although they do let him nap a bit in his chair after meals.
01:15:36 ►
They treat him like their own fathers, with love and humor, and you can’t put a price on that.
01:15:42 ►
So what I want for my birthday is to find a few very wealthy
01:15:45 ►
and compassionate people who are interested in consciousness and familiar with the world of
01:15:49 ►
psychedelics and who understand what Sasha’s work has meant and will continue to mean long after he
01:15:54 ►
dies and can’t afford to help us keep him home and so very well cared for. In the meantime,
01:16:01 ►
I feel tremendous gratitude to all of you who have sacrificed God knows what to send us whatever you could.
01:16:07 ►
It’s because of you that we’ve made it this far, and I hope you understand that I can’t thank you individually, although I would if I could.
01:16:15 ►
And there’s a lot more current information about Sasha that Ann posts regularly on their Facebook page.
01:16:45 ►
Thank you. Sasha who need help right now. But in addition to tribal elders like Sasha, there is one of our younger generation that is also in dire need of our assistance. She’s a woman who is a close friend
01:16:51 ►
of John Hanna and his wife. And in fact, she was their daughter’s teacher besides being a friend.
01:16:56 ►
And she has suffered a series of calamities that seem almost impossible to recover from.
01:17:02 ►
And so I’ve also put a link to her story at the top of the
01:17:05 ►
program notes for today’s podcast, and I hope that you’ll at least take time to read her story and
01:17:10 ►
send her some light and love. And just to let you know the intensity of this situation, John Hanna
01:17:15 ►
is offering to sell his rare collection of psychedelia piece by piece to help raise funds.
01:17:21 ►
Although, if you do see fit to donate, I hope that you just send a donation and let John
01:17:26 ►
keep this important collection together. But however you do it, it would be great if you could
01:17:30 ►
help her out a little bit. Well, on that rather heavy note, I’ll close today’s podcast by reminding
01:17:38 ►
you that this and most of the podcasts from the Psychedelic Salon are freely available for you to
01:17:43 ►
use in your own audio projects under the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial Share Like 3.0 license.
01:17:50 ►
And if you have any questions about that, just click the Creative Commons link at the bottom of the Psychedelic Salon webpage, which you can find via psychedelicsalon.us.
01:18:05 ►
If you’re interested in the philosophy behind the salon, you can hear something about it in my novel, The Genesis Generation,
01:18:11 ►
which is available as an audio book that you can download at genesisgeneration.us.
01:18:16 ►
And for now, this is Lorenzo signing off from Cyberdelic Space.
01:18:33 ►
Be well, my friends. Thank you.