Program Notes

Guest speaker: Terence McKenna

[NOTE: All quotations are by Terence McKenna.]

“[The wide variety of psychedelic plants] are the way in which the Earth itself is stepping in to aid in the agenda of cultural transformation. There are too many doorways in nature that lead to heaven, there are too many paths to the mystery for any institution or social policy to be able to thwart the intent of the human species to evolve.”

“The smart people who are straight are involved in simply the media management of what has turned into a slow apocalypse, spreading starvation, exacerbated class differences, toxified agriculture, so forth and so on. I don’t believe the Establishment thinks there are solutions. Their policy is basically the management of panic, which is hardly a forward moving approach to the adventure of human civilization.”

“Inside the boundaries of the old paradigm there’s no hope, there’s no way out of the box of capitalism, monogamy, consumer fetishism, egoism, money worship, no way out. No way. No way out!”

“Because this is the world that science built, with the henchmen of capitalism and Christianity.”

“This unique strategy that the advanced primates created, the strategy of using language to bind time, is what the process we call ‘civilization’ has been all about.”

“Cyberspace is the human transition into a mathematical super space where we as a collectivity become optionally a single point of view.”

“The main thing going on in the 20th century is a dissolving of boundaries, all the boundaries that historical civilization put in place.”

“Let’s not underrate cannabis, for cryin’ out loud. Cannabis should be the glue of the community.”

“The obligation on us is to communicate the truth so that it is understood. The belief will take care of itself.”

Megatripolis Club, London
Podcasts featuring Fraser Clark
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“Monkey’s Trip, A Short History of the Human Species”
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Transcript

00:00:00

Greetings from cyberdelic space.

00:00:20

This is Lorenzo and I’m your host here in the psychedelic salon.

00:00:24

This is Lorenzo and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.

00:00:31

And once again, I have to begin by apologizing for not getting this podcast out sooner.

00:00:38

You know, while I don’t actually have any complaints about growing old, at least from a physical standpoint,

00:00:42

because, well, everything seems to be working fine and with very few aches and pains,

00:00:48

what I have noticed about myself lately is that, well, I’ve become very undependable.

00:00:51

When I was younger, I was great at multitasking,

00:00:56

and, well, people knew that they could count on me carrying through with whatever I said I’d do.

00:01:00

But sadly, well, that’s no longer the case with me, I guess.

00:01:04

It seems that I’ve become very undependable in my old age, or I should say my older age,

00:01:07

because, well, I plan on getting a lot older

00:01:09

before actually thinking of myself as being in old age.

00:01:13

So, if I’ve begun a correspondence with you

00:01:16

that seems to have dropped off into a black hole,

00:01:19

or if you are one of the two fellow salonners

00:01:22

whom I’ve promised to read your manuscripts,

00:01:26

well, I’ve completely fallen down on the job. Since my email continues to fill up each day, and since I’ve

00:01:33

completely screwed up my attempt at a filing system, those things have kind of slipped away

00:01:38

from me. And if you are one of those wonderful people who I’ve been so rude to, well, I do hope you can forgive me.

00:01:46

The lesson that I’m taking away from my bad behavior is that, well, I simply shouldn’t commit to doing anything other than producing these podcasts and continuing to flail away at my next book.

00:02:04

other fellow salonners like the two plant lovers and others who have made donations to help offset the expenses associated with these podcasts, I deeply appreciate your help and I’m

00:02:11

sorry for not yet sending a personal thank you note before now. Hopefully I won’t let that slip

00:02:16

through the cracks much longer, but in case you’re wondering why I’ve stopped saying the first names

00:02:22

of donors, it’s because over half of them

00:02:25

have asked me not to mention their names in a podcast, and I don’t want to slip up and make a

00:02:29

mistake. You know, I can certainly understand where people are coming from, as there are really still

00:02:35

a lot of people in the world who can and will give us a hard time for even being interested in these

00:02:40

topics, let alone to be contributing to their widespread distribution.

00:02:45

So a huge thank you goes out to all of our donors over the years, and you recent ones,

00:02:52

I’ll do my very best to get a personal thank you note out to you.

00:02:55

Well, eventually that is.

00:02:59

Undependable me, huh?

00:03:01

Now, getting on with today’s program, well, it’s not what I originally planned on presenting today.

00:03:08

A couple of days ago, I was almost finished editing the next Plinque Norte lecture

00:03:13

when Pez informed me that the next speaker had just then requested that she be able to listen to her talk

00:03:19

before giving the okay to podcast it.

00:03:22

And now when I say I edit these talks, what I mean is that I’m not cutting anything out.

00:03:28

I’m just eliminating the places where there’s really a long pause

00:03:31

or where someone asks a question that wasn’t picked up by the microphone.

00:03:35

And also there are some spots where the speaker’s voice gets quite low

00:03:39

when they look away from the mic or sometimes get really loud when they’re excited.

00:03:44

And in each of those places, well, they require a little touch-up, and usually that means

00:03:48

several hours of work before it’s ready to podcast.

00:03:52

So when I got the news that it would still be a while before I could podcast that particular

00:03:56

talk, I just moved it to the bottom of the queue and put the salon aside for a day or

00:04:01

so while I worked on getting my enthusiasm back up and beginning to work on something new again. But then the day after my scheduled talk got put on hold,

00:04:11

I received a package in the mail from Bruce Dahmer, and it included a DVD of a talk that

00:04:16

Terrence McKenna gave with Fraser Clark as the emcee at the Megatriplice Club. It was an event

00:04:22

back in the summer of 1994 in the UK.

00:04:25

It was way back last summer sometime when I first received an inquiry from Susanna LaFond in the UK,

00:04:32

who had a video of that event and offered to get it transferred to a format that I could use

00:04:37

to strip the audio for this podcast.

00:04:41

Well, over the ensuing months, I kind of dropped the ball myself,

00:04:44

but then Susanna met Bruce when he was in Europe somewhere, and she either gave him the DVD then or mailed it to him later.

00:04:52

But in any event, Bruce had the DVD for a couple months, thinking that he and I would be getting together in person.

00:04:57

However, that didn’t happen, and so he finally mailed it to me last week.

00:05:01

So he finally mailed it to me last week.

00:05:08

Now, besides Susanna, I’m not sure who else to thank for getting this talk to me,

00:05:12

other than Rainbow Heart, whose name was on the disc.

00:05:16

And that may be Susanna’s playa name, I’m not really sure.

00:05:21

But I do think that this disc and the two others that I haven’t had a chance to review yet that were also in the package, well, I think they’ve been to Burning Man

00:05:24

because there’s a lot of playa dust on the disc envelopes.

00:05:28

Now the first voice that we’ll hear is that of Fraser Clark, who has also been a featured

00:05:33

speaker here in the salon on past occasions.

00:05:36

And in his introduction, Fraser says that Terrence will speak for about an hour and

00:05:41

then there will be time for questions.

00:05:43

But around 30 minutes into this talk

00:05:45

we begin hearing Fraser reading questions from the audience and Terrence answering them. So I don’t

00:05:52

know if the video cut it out for a bit in the middle or if this is the way it went. Since I

00:05:57

didn’t watch the video as I was capturing the audio portion from it I don’t know for sure what

00:06:02

happened to the one hour talk and then the questions. Maybe someday I’ll take the time to watch the entire thing, but right now I figured

00:06:09

it best to just get this podcast out before any more delays. So now let’s join Fraser Clark,

00:06:16

Terrence McKenna, and a room full of very noisy and talkative people in the background while

00:06:22

Terrence does his best to shout over the crowd noise and

00:06:25

attempt to keep the attention of a large group of people who really may have been there more for the

00:06:30

music and dancing than for a McKenna rap. And keep in mind that this talk was given in 1994,

00:06:37

which was even before any widespread discussion about the potential Y2K problem, or the Millennium, or 2012.

00:06:48

But as you listen, put yourself back in that time frame,

00:06:51

and I think you’re going to begin to understand Terence’s role in stirring things up about the 2012 event,

00:06:54

which is now only a few days away.

00:06:59

It’s probably the most adventurous mind on the planet to do it.

00:07:02

I’d just like to say one little thing about the man himself,

00:07:05

what I like about Terence is

00:07:08

he’s not just a philosopher,

00:07:10

he’s not just an intellectual,

00:07:11

the man is a revolutionary, an iconoclast,

00:07:14

and he’s doing lots of things

00:07:16

besides just talking ideas.

00:07:19

So that’s it. Terence McKenna!

00:07:20

Thank you!

00:07:21

Terence McKenna.

00:07:30

Terence is going to talk for about one hour,

00:07:32

and then we’ll do question and answer.

00:07:35

What I’d like you to do is, if you have a question,

00:07:37

write it on a piece of paper during the hour,

00:07:39

at the end of the hour, and bring it up to me. To me, up here.

00:07:41

I’ll be sitting in the back of the stage.

00:07:43

So just give me…

00:07:43

That way it works a bit more efficiently.

00:07:45

Okay.

00:07:46

What?

00:07:46

What?

00:07:47

Alright.

00:07:53

I don’t know. Do you sit? Do you stand? What do you do?

00:08:04

Is the sound good?

00:08:09

Is the light good?

00:08:14

Sorry, I’m happy to be here.

00:08:18

Good.

00:08:19

So am I.

00:08:23

Well,

00:08:33

So am I. Well, before I get into the bulk of the lecture tonight, I thought I would just give you some news from the frontier of pharmacology, which is that for the second time in the 20th century,

00:08:48

a mega-halocenogen has been discovered that is active in microgram quantities.

00:08:58

You got the sound under control back there?

00:09:01

Up there? Down there?

00:09:03

Good.

00:09:04

So what this is, is an incredible opportunity

00:09:09

for the community because this compound that is active at 300 micrograms when smoked is When smoked, it’s not illegal anywhere in the world to grow, to manufacture, to possess,

00:09:29

to transport.

00:09:31

So here is the story.

00:09:34

For 45 years it’s been a commonplace of the botanical literature that there was a Mexican

00:09:44

plant called Salvia divinorum.

00:09:47

Yes.

00:09:49

But it was always said that it was either impossible to confirm its hallucinogenic activity

00:09:57

or whatever it was, it was so unstable that it would only persist in the plant

00:10:06

a few hours after it was

00:10:08

picked.

00:10:10

A few years ago,

00:10:12

about five years ago, an American

00:10:14

anthropologist,

00:10:15

one of our own,

00:10:17

Fred Blosser, went

00:10:20

to the Oaxacan Mountains

00:10:22

and spent some time with the

00:10:24

Indians down there

00:10:25

and they showed him how to get off on the plant, the leaf.

00:10:32

And he described to me and a number of other people

00:10:35

quite extraordinary states of consciousness

00:10:39

that were coming from this particular shamanic plant.

00:10:44

That’s where it rested until about ten months ago

00:10:49

when an underground chemist in an earthquake-prone city

00:10:55

who prefers to remain anonymous

00:10:59

set out to actually isolate the constituents of Salvia Devinorum.

00:11:08

And in short order, he overcame the conventional wisdom and produced a crystalline material

00:11:14

active at the microgram range.

00:11:19

To check what it was, he purchased a chromatographic standard of a compound called salvorin alpha

00:11:30

that had been extracted from this plant 15 years ago, and he smoked that.

00:11:37

And the experience was identical.

00:12:00

So we now know that there is a new chemical compound in the isoquinoline family that is active in the microgram range that occurs in a plant that looks like Joe Plant. it’s a house plant it’s a window box plant it’s a relative of the coleus

00:12:07

it grows from gnome to the equator

00:12:11

and it’s legal

00:12:13

so for the first time

00:12:17

since the psychedelic issue

00:12:21

has been before the community

00:12:24

we have an

00:12:26

opportunity to

00:12:28

create

00:12:29

a psychedelic community

00:12:32

that is

00:12:33

entirely within the law

00:12:36

no laws

00:12:37

need to be changed

00:12:39

and no laws are broken

00:12:42

if we avail

00:12:43

ourselves of this stuff,

00:12:46

to manufacture it, to transport it, to use it, to explore it for psychotherapy,

00:12:51

to do it on stage, as I’m about to do.

00:12:54

No, I’m kidding, I’m kidding.

00:12:58

Steady, steady, easy.

00:13:16

And this is, this concert by way of example to point out the fact that there are probably many such plants still to be discovered. The interesting thing about Salvia Divinorum is that it’s not related to any

00:13:31

substance currently illegal. Therefore, the argument that it’s a structural relative of

00:13:39

something illegal is also fallacious. So, at least in the case of the American government,

00:13:46

they will have to present medical and scientific evidence

00:13:50

that there is a problem with this compound

00:13:54

before it will be possible to make it illegal.

00:13:58

This is just one more example,

00:14:01

along with Ibogaine, Polaris, Ayahuasca, so forth and so on, of the way

00:14:08

in which the earth itself is stepping in to aid in the agenda of cultural transformation.

00:14:17

There are too many doorways in nature that lead to heaven. There are too many paths to the mystery for any institution

00:14:27

or social policy to be able to thwart the intent of the human species to evolve. This

00:14:36

is part of what this end of millennia cultural transformation is about, a rediscovery of the richness of the gifts

00:14:48

of nature. I mentioned Ibogaine. Ibogaine is another hallucinogen, a West African plant

00:14:57

that induces intense visionary experiences and is now being looked at by the National Institute for Drug Abuse

00:15:07

in the United States

00:15:08

as possibly a strong contender

00:15:12

for being a pharmacological intervention

00:15:14

on cocaine and heroin addiction.

00:15:18

Imagine how the social understanding

00:15:21

of the concept altered state and psychoactive substance would be

00:15:27

changed if we discovered that the solution to many of our drug problems

00:15:33

are drugs you see I mean I maintain that they were the solution to many of our

00:15:41

problems thousands and thousands of years ago, and that it was the creation of societies so constipated,

00:15:49

so ego-bound, so hierarchically stratified,

00:15:53

that they couldn’t tolerate the presence

00:15:56

of an ecstatic shamanism as a social phenomenon.

00:16:00

It’s the rise of those kind of societies

00:16:03

that have led us to the brink of planetary catastrophe.

00:16:08

So that sort of brings me to my major theme for the evening, or sort of reason why smart people should hope? Is there any

00:16:32

reason why people of analytical intelligence who are connected up to the facts of the matter about the state of the world should hope.

00:16:46

The conventional wisdom is basically no.

00:16:50

The smart people who are straight are involved in simply the media management of what has

00:16:57

turned into a slow apocalypse, spreading starvation, exacerbated class differences,

00:17:07

toxified agriculture, so forth and so on.

00:17:10

I don’t believe the establishment thinks there are solutions.

00:17:16

Their policy is basically the management of panic,

00:17:21

which is hardly a forward-moving approach

00:17:28

to the adventure of human civilization.

00:17:38

So in order to find permission to hope, to believe in something, the first thing you have to do is reconstruct your intellectual model of the universe from the very, very ground up.

00:17:47

As long as you’re trying to make sense of reality

00:17:52

inside the boundaries of the old paradigm,

00:17:56

there’s no hope.

00:17:59

There’s no way out of the box of capitalism,

00:18:11

monogamy, consumer fetishism, egoism, money worship. No way out. No way. No way out. So what that means is we have to return to first principle. We have to re-understand who we are in the universe, what we are in

00:18:30

the universe, and what we mean to it. And in order to do that, we have to, I almost

00:18:38

use the word attack, but let’s be academic and say provide the critique of science

00:18:46

because this is the world that science built

00:18:51

with the henchmen of capitalism and Christianity.

00:18:55

But a critique of science that brings it to a new model of reality

00:19:01

is the way to open a door to hope

00:19:06

ok

00:19:08

so here’s the deal

00:19:10

science has overlooked

00:19:14

two immensely

00:19:16

salient facts

00:19:18

about reality

00:19:19

that are not

00:19:21

abstruse

00:19:23

and to be deduced from analyzing the contents of cyclotrons

00:19:29

or the reflectivity data on the moons of Pluto.

00:19:34

Science has missed two immensely obvious facts about reality.

00:19:40

And here’s what they are.

00:19:42

The first one is not such a stretch

00:19:46

the first fact is

00:19:48

that across all levels of phenomena

00:19:52

atomic

00:19:54

ordinary organic chemistry

00:19:58

biological systems

00:20:00

cultural systems

00:20:02

your life

00:20:04

across all levels of phenomena, the way nature works

00:20:09

is that she conserves novelty.

00:20:14

What I mean by this is that the universe produces novelty, and then it struggles to maintain

00:20:22

it.

00:20:22

The universe is a novelty-producing engine of some sort.

00:20:30

And the further you move from the birth of the universe,

00:20:34

the more novel the universe becomes until you arrive here tonight.

00:20:42

until you arrive here tonight.

00:20:52

This is the most novel moment to date in the history of the universe. It is not only a world of astrophysical forces,

00:20:57

or a world of astrophysical forces plus organic chemistry,

00:21:02

or astrophysical forces, organic chemistry plus biology.

00:21:08

But this is a world that has all the levels of novelty

00:21:13

that have accumulated throughout the career of the evolving universe.

00:21:19

Each level built on the level which preceded it.

00:21:25

And one thing I want to point out about this

00:21:28

is that this is the first,

00:21:30

if you agree with this,

00:21:32

then the first payoff is

00:21:35

that suddenly human importance is taken back

00:21:41

from the scientific view

00:21:43

that we are the chancely evolved witnesses of a meaningless

00:21:48

process in an ordinary corner of the universe too vast to conceive or imagine.

00:21:55

That incredibly disempowering picture of who we are in the cosmos is misled.

00:22:09

The actual facts of the matter are that in our bodies,

00:22:13

in our brains, in the culture that we have assembled,

00:22:20

all the novelty that preceded us has been exploited and is expressed and is honored,

00:22:28

we then begin to look like partners in the project of the production of novelty

00:22:38

and more novelty and yet greater novelty.

00:22:42

and yet greater novelty.

00:22:43

Okay.

00:22:47

That’s the first fact which science overlooked,

00:22:51

the conservation of novelty.

00:22:54

The second fact that science overlooked

00:22:58

is more of a stretch

00:23:02

in terms of the break with the past style of thinking that it requires.

00:23:08

The second fact which science overlooked is the fact that each advance into novelty,

00:23:20

each new level of novelty occurs faster than the level which preceded it.

00:23:30

This is incredibly important because what it means is

00:23:34

that the culmination of the novelty-producing process

00:23:41

could be far closer to us in time than we

00:23:46

might ordinarily suppose

00:23:47

using scientific assumptions

00:23:50

about reality.

00:23:53

And those

00:23:54

of you who have heard me before

00:23:55

have heard me say, history

00:23:58

is the shock

00:24:00

wave of eschatology.

00:24:02

What that means is

00:24:04

that the presence of ourselves on this planet, using

00:24:10

culture, using language, transferring information electronically around the world, our presence

00:24:18

on the planet means that the universal process of novelty production

00:24:25

has entered one of its very short cycles.

00:24:30

And so what it means is that asymptotic acceleration of change

00:24:36

is built into the structure of space-time itself

00:24:40

in this region of the cosmos.

00:24:44

History is

00:24:46

ending. Time

00:24:48

is literally running

00:24:49

out on this planet and it isn’t about

00:24:52

political mistakes or

00:24:54

anything where we should

00:24:55

blame ourselves.

00:24:57

It’s in the structure

00:24:59

of the fabric of space-time

00:25:02

itself.

00:25:03

And the proof of this is ourselves,

00:25:07

because the emergence of conscious human beings

00:25:14

out of advanced primates

00:25:18

occurred with such explosive suddenness

00:25:23

that it, like history,

00:25:26

argues that we are in the presence of a process

00:25:30

that is quickly beginning to accelerate

00:25:34

and cross boundary level after boundary level

00:25:38

as it bursts through to greater and greater degrees of freedom.

00:25:44

So I believe that we are actually preparing to decamp from ordinary history.

00:25:52

I don’t know exactly what that means,

00:25:55

but the continuation of history for decades, centuries, millennia is inconceivable.

00:26:04

That is the hallucination of the establishment

00:26:08

because it cannot imagine the actual truth of the situation,

00:26:14

which is that the cascade of forces set off by Greek science,

00:26:20

by the phonetic alphabet, by monotheism, this cascade of social forces is now propelling

00:26:28

the entire global social structure into another dimension,

00:26:36

literally another dimension.

00:26:38

I mentioned the conservation of novelty.

00:26:44

Now I want to go back over it

00:26:46

from a slightly different point of view

00:26:48

if we analyze the way

00:26:50

in which novelty

00:26:52

has made its way into

00:26:54

being

00:26:54

you see that it has

00:26:57

consisted of a kind

00:27:00

of conquest of dimensionality

00:27:02

the earliest life forms were probably long-chain polymers

00:27:11

or viral particles or something.

00:27:13

They were essentially points in the universe.

00:27:18

They had no sensorium, no sense of direction,

00:27:22

no sexuality, no sense of time.

00:27:25

They were basically a point-like toehold in matter by this thing which we call organic existence.

00:27:34

Over time, these life forms developed motility, meaning the ability to move,

00:27:47

motility, meaning the ability to move, and they literally fumbled their way through a universe that they could not see, dealing with each moment sequentially.

00:27:53

But this sequential exploration of space-time represents the first conquest of dimensionality

00:28:04

out of the point space.

00:28:07

Later, organisms sequestered light-sensitive chemistry on their surfaces

00:28:14

and became aware of a gradient of light,

00:28:19

which gives the concept here and there,

00:28:24

and the possibility of moving toward the light.

00:28:29

This is a further conquest of dimensionality.

00:28:33

The rest of the whole history of life, up until very recently then, is the story of

00:28:39

producing better organs of locomotion, better fins, better wings, better feet and arms,

00:28:49

as higher and higher animals arise, ultimately coordinated binocular vision.

00:28:56

And then, at that point, rather than the conquest of dimensionality being halted,

00:29:10

the conquest of dimensionality being halted, one particular organism makes an ontogenetic leap to the phenomenon of language. Language is a biological strategy for finding time.

00:29:19

Specifically, it’s a way of remembering what happened and anticipating what might happen.

00:29:26

It explodes the animal consciousness away from the now and creates the incredibly complex

00:29:36

web of syntactical and semiotic structures that we know as language.

00:29:42

that we know as language.

00:29:51

This process is very quickly compared to previous developments followed by a second development, the discovery of writing.

00:29:57

Now it’s not simply a matter of handing on oral traditions

00:30:02

from generation to generation.

00:30:04

of handing on oral traditions from generation to generation, suddenly now the freezing of time is a very realistic undertaking.

00:30:11

Discourse flows into sign, signification, in clay and stone,

00:30:19

and time is frozen.

00:30:22

And the triangulation of the future proceeds through the evolution of the kind of mathematics that we see at Stonehenge and so forth. of using language to bind time is what the process we call civilization

00:30:48

has been all about.

00:30:50

And now, with electronic media,

00:30:54

enormous databases,

00:30:56

the ability to use Telenet and Usenet

00:30:59

and move around the planet

00:31:01

from library to library

00:31:03

with a few keystrokes, essentially we are

00:31:07

completing the program of downloading all of the past into virtual accessibility.

00:31:17

And as we do this, we are essentially propelling ourselves into this much-valued domain called cyberspace.

00:31:31

Cyberspace is the human transition into a mathematical superspace

00:31:38

where we, as a collectivity, become optionally a single point of view.

00:31:48

Okay, now, what this all means, then,

00:31:53

is that human history and biological evolution,

00:31:59

and in fact the entire unfolding of the process of the universe,

00:32:05

it is not something pushed from behind,

00:32:11

like the falling of a row of dominoes.

00:32:14

In other words, the scientific assumption of causal necessity

00:32:20

is only part of the story.

00:32:23

Necessity is only part of the story.

00:32:37

The universe is under the spell of what I call a transcendental object, or what chaos theory calls an attractor.

00:32:50

There is actually a teleological arrow to process. It is being drawn through, ever into, ever more novel domains, and it spends less time in each domain of novelty until it moves on to the next one.

00:33:00

This is what Whitehead called concrescence. It’s what it means that in a hundred years

00:33:08

we’ve gone from a world where most people didn’t possess telephones

00:33:13

to a world where most people can call anywhere in the planet

00:33:18

as long as they can afford it.

00:33:22

Concrescence, the knitting together, the dissolving of boundaries.

00:33:27

This is the key to novelty.

00:33:31

Novelty is achieved by the flowing together of domains that were previously separate.

00:33:39

They may be the half-life portions of a chromosome, or rich people and poor people,

00:33:48

or ravers and travelers,

00:33:51

or Marxists and Democrats.

00:33:53

The point is, ideas become constipated

00:33:57

when they’re sealed away from other idea systems.

00:34:02

The main thing going on in the 20th century

00:34:05

is a dissolving of boundaries.

00:34:08

All the boundaries that historical civilization put in place.

00:34:14

I mean, what has the past thousand years been about

00:34:18

except building class differences, race differences,

00:34:23

sexual differences?

00:34:25

We’ve had religious wars.

00:34:27

We’ve had fractionalism is how we relate to the world,

00:34:32

with the final culmination being the dog-eat-dog vision of nature

00:34:37

that we inherit from British natural science in the 19th century. Now the new metaphor is fusion, union, cross-fertilization,

00:34:52

dissolution of boundaries, melding into an enormous stew of virtual and interactive creativity.

00:35:05

What this is all leading to, I believe,

00:35:09

is what I call the Big Bang.

00:35:14

I’m sorry, the Big Surprise.

00:35:17

And as I describe it to you,

00:35:19

the reason I said Big Bang

00:35:21

is because I want you to remember

00:35:23

as I describe this cosmogony to you, what is stored somehow in the DNA.

00:35:33

You remember there are vast segments of the DNA which do not appear to be dedicated to genetic transcription of proteins.

00:35:42

These have always been dismissed by science,

00:35:45

the so-called silent sequences.

00:35:48

But the silent sequences may not be designed

00:35:52

to be read by a ribosome to produce a protein.

00:35:56

The silent sequences of DNA

00:35:59

may be in fact encoded information

00:36:03

of the sort of information you and I think of as information.

00:36:06

And when the drug molecule fits in there, it broadcasts an expanded electron spin resonance

00:36:16

signal off the molecule, and this is the psychedelic experience.

00:36:28

psychedelic experience. It’s being conducted into the Akashic memory banks where all this DNA-coded information is happening. The fact is, that’s pure speculation, and there are

00:36:36

many molecular biologists who would sneer at it, but they’re not on a secure ground as they suppose if there is

00:36:46

one issue in the past

00:36:48

40 years

00:36:49

that science has failed

00:36:52

utterly to make any

00:36:53

progress on

00:36:55

it’s the question of memory

00:36:57

no one understands

00:36:59

how it works

00:37:01

and the best models

00:37:03

to date are completely inadequate to the data.

00:37:07

So I believe that the game is not in on this,

00:37:12

and it would make a certain amount of sense, wouldn’t it?

00:37:16

The psychedelic experience sort of is like

00:37:20

experiencing a vast blast of memory data.

00:37:26

Those of you who have done it,

00:37:27

have you noticed the weird

00:37:30

now I’m an infant again aura

00:37:33

that sometimes attends it?

00:37:35

I mean, when I do DMT,

00:37:37

I actually feel my body proportions

00:37:40

become infantile.

00:37:42

I feel my head get bigger

00:37:44

and my legs shrink. I mean it’s

00:37:47

only a part of the experience, you have to notice it, but it seems to me very suggestive

00:37:53

that we are actually entering hyperspace. You are experiencing yourself your whole life,

00:38:01

not just now, but back, back, back, back, back, back, back.

00:38:07

There’s lots of work to be done.

00:38:09

Yes? The intensity of the DMT experience diminished when you

00:38:11

take it with MAO inhibitors.

00:38:15

Does

00:38:15

the DMT

00:38:17

experience diminish

00:38:19

when you take it with MAO inhibitors?

00:38:23

I

00:38:23

would think that you might lock it in at a fairly high

00:38:27

level of intensity. Yes, it does. Definitely does. Be sure you’re prepared before you try

00:38:36

that stuff.

00:38:39

Other people I know have tried DMP and had ordinary, chippy experiences, e.g. aliens,

00:38:51

doors opening. No one has tried these, no one has had these vast experiences you described.

00:38:58

Could it all be in the mind, and you see these things because you have a wide scientific,

00:39:03

academic background in your head already.

00:39:07

Good question.

00:39:08

Well, the thing about DMT is that it does make a certain demand of courage and the leather

00:39:18

lung smokers among us are in a superior position.

00:39:24

The difference between one toke and two is enormous.

00:39:29

The difference between two tokes and three is staggering. So you have to push it. And

00:39:39

I believe that it’s quite safe. I mean, people say, is it dangerous?

00:39:50

And you know my answer, only if you fear death by astonishment.

00:39:54

But that’s not a joke.

00:40:03

Death by astonishment doesn’t seem like such an unlikely proposition when you’re out there.

00:40:07

So, you know, you sort of have to gauge. A friend of mine once said of DMT, he said, every time I do it, I try to stand more. And that’s what

00:40:14

it’s like, because ultimately it is going to overwhelm your intellectual machinery.

00:40:21

If it doesn’t blow it out in the first 30 seconds, it will blow it out later because

00:40:27

ultimately the mind fails. The descriptive apparatus

00:40:31

melts. The measuring instruments are vaporized

00:40:36

and the thing is just what it is. So you want to

00:40:40

proceed carefully

00:40:42

but with courage

00:40:45

with courage

00:40:46

and if your friends

00:40:49

tell you you’re getting nutty

00:40:51

you should listen to them

00:40:53

because it does

00:40:55

have a tendency to magnify

00:40:58

inflationary images

00:41:00

in the psyche

00:41:01

in other words

00:41:03

if you’re not flawlessly solid it will act like an x-ray

00:41:09

of just where the fault lines lie in your particular world. This question is, do you

00:41:16

believe that it is necessary to be in a certain mind space before entering a trip to give maximum effect well I mean

00:41:26

it’s very simple

00:41:29

it’s six hours

00:41:32

without food

00:41:33

and silent darkness

00:41:35

telephones unplugged

00:41:38

comfortable

00:41:39

reassuring environment

00:41:42

that’s all

00:41:43

it’s not about tanks. It’s not about tanks

00:41:46

and it’s not about

00:41:48

social situations like this

00:41:52

that are dense with noise,

00:41:54

people, pheromones,

00:41:55

social signaling.

00:41:57

I mean, it would rip you apart

00:41:59

a really deep trip.

00:42:02

I mean, let’s not underrate

00:42:04

cannabis for crying out loud. I’s not underrate cannabis for crying

00:42:06

out loud. I mean, I think

00:42:07

cannabis should be the glue

00:42:10

of the community.

00:42:12

It’s really important to go

00:42:13

botanical, to be

00:42:15

a botanical

00:42:17

psychedelic.

00:42:21

You see, the very best of the

00:42:24

white powder drugs are still impossible to verify as to purity and source.

00:42:31

So it’s just a fool’s game.

00:42:35

The plants will not play you false.

00:42:39

So I think that’s very important.

00:42:42

Do you think the industrial political system will be

00:42:46

able to manipulate consciousness

00:42:47

through technology

00:42:49

by your telemetry

00:42:51

implants and

00:42:54

prevent our minds evolving

00:42:55

and accepting the transcendental object?

00:42:58

Oh yeah.

00:42:59

Well, this thing about fearing

00:43:02

technology in any

00:43:04

form.

00:43:05

What you’ve got to understand is when you go into these places

00:43:09

like Autodesk and Silicon Graphics and like that,

00:43:14

you have the suits above the 20th floor,

00:43:19

but everybody below the 20th floor has hair down to their ass,

00:43:23

is heavily tattooed, pierced.

00:43:27

They’re rocking.

00:43:28

So we own this technology.

00:43:32

They do not understand it.

00:43:34

You know, it was a miracle that Richard Nixon could erase 15 and a half minutes on a tape recorder and get it right.

00:43:41

They have to pay us to run their technology. They can’t write code. They

00:43:47

can’t run the nets. It belongs to us. And I see this trend simply accelerating. The

00:43:57

technical community is by no means part of the opposition. The technical community is going to be there

00:44:07

when we reach the barricades.

00:44:10

What kind of music or sound, if any,

00:44:13

would you use for DMT?

00:44:14

And also, what does DMT sound like?

00:44:19

What kind of music would I use with DMT?

00:44:24

Well, I have done DMT with music,

00:44:28

but I’ve regretted it nearly every time.

00:44:32

I’ve done it with Locatelli’s Violin Concerto No. 11.

00:44:37

That was a long…

00:44:38

The reason these are not contempo deals

00:44:41

is because I haven’t done it with music for 30 years

00:44:44

because it alarmed me.

00:44:46

I did it with Carl Heinz Stockhausen and that really alarmed me.

00:44:52

As far as what DMT sounds like, it sounds, well, somewhat like this. And then, of course, that’s the kind of sucking, pulling thing that happens as

00:45:22

you tumble down these disystolic organismic hallways that

00:45:27

are pulling and tugging you forward. And then, of course, you get in, at least for me, into

00:45:35

what I call the elf hive. And then there is, for me and for some people, I mean, it hits people differently. I saw a woman not long ago, it was very interesting,

00:45:50

have the most amazing orgasm I’ve ever seen.

00:45:55

And I’ve seen a lot of people do DMT,

00:45:58

and this just left everybody’s jaw hanging,

00:46:02

this woman, a very nondescript

00:46:05

sort of person but she certainly

00:46:08

got on

00:46:09

and she was saying during

00:46:12

it don’t send me back

00:46:14

I can’t leave you

00:46:16

I can’t leave you

00:46:18

what happens to me

00:46:19

in reference to the sound thing

00:46:22

is language

00:46:23

I see elves sort, dribbling self-jeweled basketballs,

00:46:30

but the main activity at the higher doses

00:46:34

is that these autonomous machine elf soul creatures

00:46:40

make objects with language.

00:46:41

creatures make objects with language

00:46:44

they

00:46:45

somehow language

00:46:48

in the DMT state is

00:46:49

transduced through the eyes

00:46:51

you see syntax

00:46:53

and

00:46:55

you are in fact impelled

00:46:58

to join with them

00:46:59

in these long spontaneous

00:47:02

bursts of language

00:47:03

like activity that sound sort of like this in these long spontaneous bursts of language-like activity

00:47:05

that sound sort of like this. I don’t know how to live. I don’t know how to live.

00:47:26

I don’t know how to live.

00:47:28

I don’t know how to live.

00:47:43

I don’t understand this one.

00:48:07

So what holds us together, or do we just let go?

00:48:12

Will we become insane in the conventional meaning?

00:48:17

No, we’ll redefine sanity.

00:48:20

We’ll carry the definition with us.

00:48:25

This is what’s insane.

00:48:27

The city outside and the governments and the institutions.

00:48:31

We won’t become insane.

00:48:33

We are awakening.

00:48:35

This is what’s happening.

00:48:37

The long nightmare of human history that James Joyce talked about.

00:48:43

We are awakening,

00:48:45

and the truth you think you see,

00:48:48

the truth of your own intuition,

00:48:50

is the truth.

00:48:52

You don’t need somebody handing this stuff down from on high.

00:48:56

You simply have to open your eyes.

00:48:59

You know, if it looks like horseshit,

00:49:01

if it talks like horseshit,

00:49:04

if it walks like horseshit, it probably is horseshit.

00:49:13

Do you think we will last the course of time and eventually create a common awareness factor?

00:49:20

Or do you think we will destroy ourselves in an incentive attitude towards the planet? Do we have enough time to hear something we haven’t developed?

00:49:33

Yeah, no, I’m an absolute optimist.

00:49:35

I am absolutely certain, as I stand before you, that everything is on track.

00:49:43

before you that everything is on track.

00:49:51

I mean, the mushroom has said, this is what it’s like when a species prepares to depart for the galactic center.

00:49:53

This is what planets come into existence for.

00:49:56

This is, we are about to part ourselves from the placenta of three-dimensional space.

00:50:03

from the placenta of three-dimensional space.

00:50:09

Information is rearing itself up and preparing to take a step into another dimension.

00:50:14

Everything is changing.

00:50:16

Everything always has been changing.

00:50:20

But now it is changing so quickly

00:50:22

that within the confines of an individual life,

00:50:26

the entire cosmic drama, it can be encapsulated.

00:50:31

We are each fractal histories of the universe.

00:50:35

It is within us as a community, as individuals.

00:50:41

Nothing can stop this. This is not a political movement.

00:50:42

individuals. Nothing can stop this. This is not a political

00:50:43

movement. This is as inevitable

00:50:46

as continental

00:50:47

drift or the sunspot

00:50:50

cycle. You know,

00:50:52

it is now time to

00:50:53

decamp from three-dimensional

00:50:55

space.

00:50:57

15,000 years ago, it was

00:51:00

time for the descent from the

00:51:02

garden into history

00:51:04

to take hold of the tools that will

00:51:07

allow us to free our minds, our bodies, our planet, our identity, our destiny. This is

00:51:17

what it’s all been about.

00:51:21

What chance do you think the city tour of America has to inspire American youth culture?

00:51:27

You made that one up.

00:51:31

Well, we’re fighting a meme war here, aren’t we?

00:51:37

We have to use the media to prosecute our agenda.

00:51:44

The other side has all the guns, all the money.

00:51:48

The only problem is, if they win, everybody dies.

00:51:54

So our friend is the information transfer network, the media. We have to set in motion means, models that will attract loyalty.

00:52:12

Remember last year I quoted William Blake and I said, if the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed.

00:52:25

It’s as simple as that.

00:52:27

The obligation on us is to communicate the truth so that it is understood.

00:52:34

The belief will take care of itself.

00:52:37

And, you know, I’m all for this zippy thing.

00:52:42

It’s a high-stakes game,

00:52:48

because a stumble will delay the agenda.

00:52:53

But I’ve been coming to Britain now for five or ten years, five years, and each time I’ve seen this scene expand,

00:52:58

broaden, deepen, and I’ve seen its resolve coalesce.

00:53:04

And I think it’s now to take this thing on the road.

00:53:08

You know, America’s undergoing the illusion of a liberal administration.

00:53:13

I think we need to strike at the great beast before Ross Perot takes it.

00:53:22

We’re getting near the end.

00:53:25

I have to tell you, it’s important to thank you. We’re getting near the end. I have to tell you…

00:53:26

What’s the time, sir?

00:53:27

We’re getting here.

00:53:29

Afterwards, we’re going to have a Tibetan healing doctor

00:53:32

upstairs in the time of silence.

00:53:33

There’ll also be Terence’s latest book

00:53:35

and some of the older ones, last year, I mean.

00:53:38

Also, we’ll be at sale up there,

00:53:39

and he’ll probably be doing some signings

00:53:41

after about 11.30.

00:53:44

All right.

00:53:45

Brother, come in and take a glass. We’ll be doing some signings after about 11.30. All right. Well, the company’s picking fast.

00:53:50

We’ll be at the Millennium.

00:53:51

We’ll probably go to the Millennium in the middle.

00:53:53

You?

00:53:56

I don’t know what’s up there.

00:53:57

Invisible Landscape.

00:53:59

It’s all around you.

00:54:00

Invisible Landscape is all around you.

00:54:02

It’s also out in America now,

00:54:05

but I don’t know if anybody’s imported it into Britain yet.

00:54:08

It is out. It’s great.

00:54:10

I’m very happy with it.

00:54:11

I’m ready to retire at this point.

00:54:14

My message is essentially done once that book is available.

00:54:20

Yeah, this is what I want to get at.

00:54:22

Your views seem to be typically millenniumism.

00:54:28

They seem to be typically millenniumism.

00:54:31

I.e. the year 2000 shapes consciousness.

00:54:33

What do you think?

00:54:34

I’ve often wondered, I want to get Terence to go down to the year 2000,

00:54:37

not the year 2012,

00:54:39

because I think we can’t agree about the year 2000.

00:54:42

What the hell are we ever going to agree about, you know?

00:54:46

Well, I’m not so… If you look at the time wave, you’ll see that the year 2000 is lined up with

00:54:55

events in Christian history so hysterical that we might as well hand it over to…

00:55:02

You’re listening to The Psychedelic Salon,

00:55:06

where people are changing their lives

00:55:07

one thought at a time.

00:55:12

And, unfortunately,

00:55:14

that is exactly where the recording

00:55:16

cut off. And

00:55:17

just when Terrence was beginning to

00:55:19

dance around that 2012 issue,

00:55:22

at least so it seemed to me,

00:55:24

I’d actually kind of forgotten how millenarian Terrence could get at times.

00:55:28

Like in this talk when we heard him say that it is now time to decamp from three-dimensional space.

00:55:35

Now, a few years ago, words like that still stirred the hearts and minds of people

00:55:40

and led many to believe that on December 21st, 2012,

00:55:44

there would actually

00:55:45

be some sort of global transformation of humanity.

00:55:49

And while I’ve been attempting to debunk that idea for several years now, and not always

00:55:54

convincingly enough for some people, I guess, I still doubt if there are many people left

00:56:00

who are thinking that something big is going to happen on the 21st.

00:56:03

And thankfully, it’s only now a week away before even the most fervent end-of-the-worlders among us

00:56:09

are going to have to begin looking ahead for a new date for a predicted apocalypse.

00:56:14

However, I think that the main thing to keep in mind when listening to one of Terrence’s raps

00:56:20

is what Dennis said about his brother being primarily a poet and entertainer.

00:56:25

He most definitely wasn’t a prophet and never claimed to be one.

00:56:29

As Dennis wrote in The Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss, and I quote,

00:56:33

His rap was not science. It was not exactly philosophy either.

00:56:38

It was poetry.

00:56:40

And Terrence was inventing himself as the Irish Bard of the Psychedelic Zeitgeist.

00:56:44

and Terence was inventing himself as the Irish Bard of the Psychedelic Zeitgeist.

00:56:48

Through him, many listeners learned to trust their intuitions rather than simply accepting the assumptions of science and secularism,

00:56:53

dreary existentialism, and religion.

00:56:57

Well, in other words, the way I see it,

00:56:59

Terence not only got us to think outside of our cultural boxes,

00:57:04

he also gave us permission to trust our own thoughts.

00:57:07

I can think of no higher calling of a teacher, actually.

00:57:10

Terrence didn’t teach us what to think.

00:57:12

He taught us how to think.

00:57:14

And for me, that’s the sign of a true teacher,

00:57:16

which is how I personally see the Bard McKenna.

00:57:20

Now, near the end of the talk that we just now listened to,

00:57:23

we heard Terrence mention what he called this zippy thing and taking it on the road.

00:57:28

And what he was talking about was the zippy pronoya tour

00:57:32

that Fraser and his merry band led across the U.S. later that year, as I recall.

00:57:37

And before I forget, although we didn’t get to hear much from Fraser just now,

00:57:42

if you don’t already know about Fraser Clark, then you owe it to yourself to learn more about him.

00:57:47

Early on here in the salon, I podcast two talks by Frazier, both of which I’ll link to in today’s program notes,

00:57:54

which, as you know, you can get to via psychedelicsalon.us.

00:57:58

But the headline about Frazier is that he was at the very center of the worldwide psychedelic community,

00:58:04

essentially since its beginning in the 60s and right up through the rave scene. Fraser is that he was at the very center of the worldwide psychedelic community, essentially

00:58:05

since its beginning in the 60s and right up through the rave scene. In fact, Fraser walked

00:58:10

the talk better than anyone I’ve ever known. He was the real thing, an archetype for us

00:58:16

all, as was in some ways the Bard McKenna. As I mentioned earlier, I just finished reading

00:58:23

Dennis McKenna’s new book,

00:58:27

The Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss.

00:58:31

And in my opinion, it’s a book that you will most definitely want to read,

00:58:36

particularly if you have any interest at all in not just the McKenna brothers,

00:58:39

but in a story about coming of age in the 60s.

00:58:45

At some points, it almost reads like a novel that’s so interesting it’s hard to put down.

00:58:49

In short, this is not only an important work of tribal history,

00:58:53

it’s also extremely well written and a true joy to read.

00:58:59

I guess that part of its allure for me is that it brought back my own memories of that extended moment in time that we think of as the 60s.

00:59:03

And I’ve often told some of our younger

00:59:05

salonners that, hey, they didn’t really miss anything by not being alive back then. The real

00:59:10

action is here and now. Compared to what’s going on today, seems to me the 60s were really boring,

00:59:16

particularly if you lived in a small town like I did. I only finished reading Dennis’s book last

00:59:22

night, and so I have yet to go back through all of the passages that I’ve underlined so as to gather a little more comprehensive understanding of all that I just read.

00:59:32

Not only does Dennis share some very revealing stories about himself and about Terrence, he also provides some very cogent and introspective asides that add significant value to this long labor of love by Dennis.

00:59:46

And there’s much more that I want to say about his book, but I’m going to save those comments

00:59:50

for a few weeks so that I can first follow the conversations about it on the various online

00:59:55

forums where it’s being discussed. Also, that’ll give you some time to read the book for yourself

01:00:00

and maybe add some comments about it to the program notes for today’s podcast.

01:00:10

I think that you’ll perhaps discover, after thinking about some of Dennis’ insights,

01:00:15

well, you may discover some of the reasons for your own interest in psychedelic consciousness,

01:00:22

whether you’re a psychonaut yourself or simply an interested observer of the continuing evolution of human consciousness and the cultures that we create. Thank you. actually ended. But as I mentioned at the beginning of today’s podcast, my original plan of action for

01:00:45

the Planque Norte series kind of got interrupted and fell apart a little. And then I did a quick

01:00:52

internet search and learned that there are actually still a lot of people who think that the ancient

01:00:57

Mayans predicted the end of the world and it’s going to happen really soon. It’s only seven days

01:01:03

away, you know. And if you happen to be looking

01:01:06

for something relevant to do on

01:01:08

December 21st, 2012,

01:01:10

one suggestion is to

01:01:11

check out the Unify project,

01:01:14

which you can find at

01:01:15

www.unify.org

01:01:18

And there you’re going to find

01:01:19

a timeline and a calendar of some of the

01:01:22

events taking place around the world on that day

01:01:24

and beyond. And I know that some of the events taking place around the world on that day and beyond.

01:01:25

And I know that some of our fellow slaughters are involved in that effort,

01:01:29

and you may want to look into it yourself.

01:01:32

Now, as it turns out, the next speaker, not the one that I planned on,

01:01:36

but the one after that, which would be the next one in the Planque Norte series, is Daniel Pinchbeck.

01:01:43

Planque Norte series, is Daniel Pinchbeck.

01:01:49

And now it looks like that my podcast of Daniel Pinchbeck’s talk will actually go out on the 21st of December, which I think is a very appropriate date for Daniel to be our guest

01:01:55

speaker that day.

01:01:57

So until the winter solstice of 2012, this is Lorenzo signing off from Cyberdelic Space.

01:02:03

Be well, my friends.