Program Notes
Guest speakers: Terence McKenna, Ralph Abraham, and Rupert Sheldrake
(Minutes : Seconds into program)
03:52 Rupert Sheldrake: Explains his concept of “Cannabis Day”
06:18 Terence McKenna: “One day in each lunar cycle would be Cannabis Day, I think.”
10:22 Terence:
“Time and attention used creatively banish the unconscious.”
13:42 Ralph Abraham: “Shopping malls are actually the modern equivalent
of the medieval abbeys.”
20:04 Rupert:
“The idea that time has its qualities is already something that has a popular following in the millions who study astrology in a vague or a professional way.”
24:22 Rupert:
“Drugs have qualities, and they open up different realms of experience… . And so what would happen, for example, if one took a powerful psychoactive that opened one to the astral realm, in the starry sense, and then invoked a particular star by name and tried to journey, or connect with, or become open to influences from that star? … I’d be rather frightened to try it, myself.”
29:09 Ralph:
“Denial [of various experiences] I think is a recent phenomenon, and here there is a serious danger for evolution because once experience is denied then evolution is shunted off its track.”
35:50 Ralph:
“We may have great powers that aren’t being used since we don’t believe in them.”
41:20 Ralph:
“A dangerous hypothesis: The first one we want to transcend is the seperation of the human unconscious from the other unconscious.”
42:32 Ralph:
“So associated with this animal domestication and eating habit, addiction, is denial of consciousness of the animal.”
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071 - The Unconscious (Part 1)
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073 - The Resacularization of the World (Part 1)
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Transcript
00:00:00 ►
Greetings from cyberdelic space.
00:00:21 ►
This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the psychedelic salon.
00:00:26 ►
So here we are, back for the conclusion of the trialogue between Terence McKenna,
00:00:30 ►
Ralph Abraham, and Rupert Sheldrake on the topic of the unconscious.
00:00:36 ►
And since I’ve got a few things I want to comment on at the end of this program,
00:00:40 ►
I’m going to keep this introduction mercifully short and get right into today’s trialogue.
00:00:46 ►
What I’m going to do is to begin by playing the last few minutes of the previous side of this tape
00:00:52 ►
to give us a little continuity from the last program.
00:00:56 ►
And so we’ll begin with Terrence McKenna’s thoughts about the drug of choice for Islam.
00:01:04 ►
Yes, although
00:01:05 ►
whether Islam has a
00:01:08 ►
drug at all could be argued. I mean,
00:01:09 ►
perhaps the drug of the Islamic world
00:01:11 ►
is coffee. Caffeine
00:01:13 ►
is more typical of the
00:01:15 ►
state of mind we associate
00:01:17 ►
with most of the denizens of that
00:01:19 ►
part of the world,
00:01:21 ►
rather than the affable states
00:01:24 ►
induced by cannabis. It’s the shrill argumentative
00:01:27 ►
and mercenary arguments of the marketplace, and coffee managed to take that basic foothold and
00:01:35 ►
write itself into every labor contract on earth. It’s the only drug sanctioned by industrial capitalism in the form of the coffee break.
00:01:50 ►
They don’t have smoking breaks, you mean, at factories in the Muslim world.
00:01:54 ►
That’s right. They don’t have cannabis breaks.
00:01:57 ►
Do they have cannabis parties on the weekend?
00:02:00 ►
I think cannabis is associated with the mystical strain in Islam
00:02:04 ►
that’s definitely minority
00:02:06 ►
and doesn’t really, when it has shaped Islamic culture, it’s been episodic and far in the past.
00:02:17 ►
Oh, I think in India today, there’s a very strong cannabis element to Islamic culture.
00:02:23 ►
It’s the drug that most young Muslims will
00:02:26 ►
smoke or take rather than alcohol. Many of them would have tried it and
00:02:29 ►
certainly know its use. And there are certain Sufi daggers near Hyderabad where
00:02:36 ►
they dance into frenzies and so on on the annual festivals and so on, where in
00:02:40 ►
that kind of Sufi shrine, smoking cannabis is quite normal.
00:02:47 ►
It’s, you know, Fakir smoke it like Hindu holy men.
00:02:54 ►
And although it’s not exactly all right from the point of view of Islam,
00:02:56 ►
it’s the drug of promise.
00:03:04 ►
And also I went to a Dagar in Srinagar in Kashmir,
00:03:08 ►
where it was a Sufi shrine and in it was the cannabis room where they had legally on sale hashish and people sitting around smoking in the Sufi
00:03:15 ►
shrine, this special room, a smoking room attached to the shrine.
00:03:20 ►
So I went with my friend, I was staying there, we sat down and we had a smoke there.
00:03:24 ►
It was a fairly depressing place in the sense that most people there were the derelicts of society.
00:03:29 ►
And it was a little bit like a kind of wino atmosphere.
00:03:32 ►
And one could see why the prejudice against cannabis develops in Islamic countries as well.
00:03:39 ►
Because it’s associated with the kind of wino, down and out, derelict.
00:03:43 ►
associated with the kind of wino, down-and-out derelict. Trooping in the street.
00:03:44 ►
Yes.
00:03:45 ►
What’s missing is the ritual, the calendric ritual,
00:03:49 ►
the ritual use, the guided trip that maintains a culture.
00:03:53 ►
Well, Cannabis Day, there’d have to be, you know, like…
00:03:56 ►
Cannabis Day.
00:03:57 ►
The Indians have, you know, the holy plant Tulsi.
00:04:00 ►
I’m sure there’s a Tulsi day,
00:04:01 ►
and they pay honour to the Tulsi plant every day
00:04:04 ►
by walking around it women do the basil
00:04:07 ►
They did at the house where I lived in Hyderabad every morning
00:04:09 ►
They touch the plant do a little pooja and walk around it second ambulate and light an incense stick
00:04:15 ►
Just as part of their morning ritual
00:04:17 ►
So here’s a sacred plant
00:04:20 ►
associated with fertility and women’s rights and empires
00:04:26 ►
It’s interesting it means king, doesn’t it, in English? Basil. So if there were, for example, Cannabis
00:04:32 ►
Day, you’d have days in which these different principles were recognized,
00:04:35 ►
made clear. There could be a booze day, that would be okay. There could be a booze day,
00:04:40 ►
yes indeed, there’d be a boo booze festival. Like the Scottish…
00:04:45 ►
The Hockenallian Festival.
00:04:46 ►
The Hogmanay, I mean, that’s the usual, the traditional booze festival is Hogmanay.
00:04:51 ►
And addiction would be controlled by rotating it around the different crops,
00:04:56 ►
as we’re told to avoid food allergies by changing our staple food every five days.
00:05:02 ►
So you’d have a calendar round of intoxicants,
00:05:06 ►
each one associated with a particular asterism on the horizon or something like that.
00:05:12 ►
Yes.
00:05:13 ►
Since the plants are already associated with celestial bodies and medieval herbals,
00:05:18 ►
there’s already this association in herbalism.
00:05:22 ►
In some cases, it would merely be a matter of looking it up
00:05:25 ►
I mean recovering the old perception
00:05:27 ►
because they had perceptions of these relations
00:05:29 ►
well maybe we could have a practical step
00:05:32 ►
toward the resurrection of this cycle
00:05:35 ►
just through the publication of a calendar
00:05:38 ►
in which the associations are mentioned and recommended
00:05:41 ►
such things almost already exist
00:05:44 ►
don’t they?
00:05:44 ►
sacred day calendars I’ve seen several versions none with plants and addictions as I mentioned and recommended. Such things almost already exist, don’t they, Sacred Day Canada?
00:05:45 ►
I’ve seen several versions, none.
00:05:47 ►
With plants and addictions,
00:05:49 ►
is there a booze day?
00:05:50 ►
Oh, no, I don’t think anyone’s…
00:05:51 ►
I don’t think it’s got to the stage
00:05:53 ►
of new dates being appropriate.
00:05:55 ►
Oh, we’d have to add that in.
00:05:56 ►
The choice of dates and everything.
00:05:58 ►
I think the Alexandrian Institute
00:06:00 ►
or the Deep Society
00:06:01 ►
or somebody could be induced
00:06:03 ►
to publish this project?
00:06:07 ►
Well I think as long as Cannabis Day occurs more frequently than once in the solar round…
00:06:13 ►
We could associate it with something fast like Mercury.
00:06:16 ►
Once a month. One day in the lunar cycle. Each lunar cycle would be Cannabis Day, I would think.
00:06:24 ►
Yes, all possibilities. Well there’d be lobbabis Day, I would think. Yes, or possibly…
00:06:25 ►
Well, there’ll be lobbies, I suppose, for every place.
00:06:28 ►
I think weekly would probably be best,
00:06:30 ►
since it would become a foundational thing.
00:06:32 ►
You see, the Christian sacrament of Holy Communion,
00:06:34 ►
taken weekly by most people,
00:06:36 ►
involves the sanctification of wine.
00:06:39 ►
The ritual element, the central sacrificial element is wine.
00:06:43 ►
And there’s no doubt that alcohol has this… and the fermentation and the corn and all those kinds of
00:06:48 ►
things are a central part of these mysteries, ancient mysteries, come in the
00:06:52 ►
Christian form. There’s wine on Saturday beginning maybe at Friday sundown.
00:07:00 ►
Cannabis on Sunday. I think cannabis on Friday, actually, because cannabis is the day, the Islamic Sabbath.
00:07:06 ►
I mean, it’s the Jewish Shekina day.
00:07:09 ►
Friday is the day of prayers of Muslims
00:07:11 ►
and is their most sacred day,
00:07:13 ►
and cannabis is their, if anything’s their sacred plant,
00:07:16 ►
this is it.
00:07:19 ►
Then Friday evening is also the invocation of the Shekinah in the Jewish custom,
00:07:28 ►
the invocation of the feminine presence of God or the Sabbath bride
00:07:31 ►
by the woman lighting the candles at sunset on Friday evening.
00:07:36 ►
Well, Robin Sullivan, you know, has re-adopted this invocation of the Sabbath bride.
00:07:43 ►
In fact, other Jews who’ve been to these Jewish revival weekends
00:07:47 ►
led by Lynn Gottlieb and people,
00:07:50 ►
it’s all to do with reconnecting with the sacred festivals
00:07:53 ►
and observing the Sabbath as the first step,
00:07:55 ►
and actually sacralizing the flow of time.
00:07:58 ►
Well, he’s done it by, they light the candles,
00:08:01 ►
and then they smoke together and talk.
00:08:05 ►
And that’s Friday evenings, their evening for meeting,
00:08:08 ►
in a kind of sacramental spirit.
00:08:10 ►
And so Friday is the Cannabis Day,
00:08:12 ►
and I think that’s probably a good day for it.
00:08:15 ►
It’s also the Goddess Day, you see, Friday, Freya, Venus Day.
00:08:19 ►
So I’d advance Friday as my top choice for Cannabis Day.
00:08:24 ►
Beginning Friday at sundown, you mean?
00:08:27 ►
Yes.
00:08:28 ►
And then Saturday at sundown, alcohol day?
00:08:30 ►
Yes, Saturday at sundown, alcohol day.
00:08:33 ►
Monday morning, one takes coffee.
00:08:35 ►
Coffee day tea?
00:08:36 ►
Coffee day, yes.
00:08:37 ►
Tuesday tea.
00:08:41 ►
And Wednesday, presumably, DM tea.
00:08:43 ►
and Wednesday presumably DMT we need rituals
00:08:48 ►
so that when consciousness is restored
00:08:51 ►
by difference
00:08:53 ►
through the change of the medium as it were
00:08:56 ►
then this consciousness would be focused on
00:09:00 ►
some submerged furniture
00:09:02 ►
through an actual ritual associated as this
00:09:06 ►
Friday night ritual was associated
00:09:08 ►
with the Shekina.
00:09:11 ►
And well Sunday
00:09:12 ►
is the sun so here we could have
00:09:14 ►
the salutation
00:09:17 ►
to the sun.
00:09:19 ►
Yes, Surya Namaskar.
00:09:21 ►
Surya Namaskar.
00:09:22 ►
Monday we could have
00:09:24 ►
Sunday sunrise. Monday we could have… Sunrise.
00:09:25 ►
Sunday sunrise.
00:09:26 ►
Mm-hmm.
00:09:27 ►
Monday.
00:09:28 ►
Well, moon festivals.
00:09:29 ►
We could have a moon observance.
00:09:30 ►
I mean, actually, it would be quite easy to reclaim the week
00:09:33 ►
because the names are all still there.
00:09:35 ►
The week, yes.
00:09:36 ►
The week is a good way to go, I think.
00:09:38 ►
Annual is, like, too slow for modern society.
00:09:40 ►
Oh, I think annual is a really good one as well.
00:09:42 ►
Yeah.
00:09:43 ►
Mm.
00:09:44 ►
Well, you have these many cycles running, and then… society. Oh, I think annual is a really good one as well.
00:09:45 ►
Well, you have these many cycles running and then…
00:09:48 ►
Well, seasons. For people to be unconscious of the seasons in modern
00:09:52 ►
cities, this is really… Well, notice that what you end up
00:09:56 ►
suggesting is that the reclamation of the unconscious has to
00:10:01 ►
do with directing attention into time. Using these mechanisms…
00:10:05 ►
The time is the body of the unconscious, apparently.
00:10:09 ►
Well, time is the mediator of the differences. Time is the enemy of habituation.
00:10:14 ►
Time is the strategy subverting sensory inhibitions.
00:10:18 ►
Time is the theater of habituation as well.
00:10:21 ►
So time and attention used creatively banish the unconscious.
00:10:28 ►
Well I don’t know how they… they banish it on an annual basis. I mean they still mean that a lot
00:10:36 ►
of these things go unconscious again for much of the year, but they keep each aspect of the
00:10:41 ►
collective consciousness, which is far larger than the everyday consciousness,
00:10:45 ►
because it includes all the mythic and ceremonial realms.
00:10:49 ►
By this annual connection, they keep the whole collective consciousness
00:10:52 ►
aware and acknowledging on a systematic basis these different dimensions of death.
00:10:59 ►
So symbolically, the unconscious is death.
00:11:02 ►
Symbolically, the unconscious is death.
00:11:05 ►
Yes, because it’s the absence of awareness.
00:11:07 ►
Or is it sleep?
00:11:08 ►
It’s sleep and death, which are often equated.
00:11:12 ►
And so then if sleep and death are the principal images of the unconscious,
00:11:17 ►
we then have the curious intermediate form of dreams,
00:11:20 ►
which are intermediate between unconscious and conscious life in some sense.
00:11:24 ►
They’re conscious after a form but not fully conscious,
00:11:27 ►
and they occur when we’re unconscious and we rapidly forget them.
00:11:30 ►
And we’re all for meditation in maintaining consciousness through voluntary fluctuation and difference in awareness.
00:11:39 ►
Well, in the annual cycle, people should become, and we should become more aware of the zodiacal
00:11:47 ►
sign, not the fictitious zodiacal sign of Western modern astrology, but the actual asterism
00:11:53 ►
in the sky through which the sun is now passing.
00:11:58 ►
And we’d become much more aware of the movements of the heavens. If, for example, Thursday, Thor’s day, or Jupiter’s day, Jove-a-Dee,
00:12:08 ►
is associated with Jupiter as it is, or Saturday with Saturn, that on those days you actually see
00:12:14 ►
those planets in the sky, you learn where they are, and you know on those days where to look
00:12:18 ►
to them, because you have to direct your consciousness towards them to come under
00:12:22 ►
the beneficent influence of their principle. And even if they’re up in daytime,
00:12:26 ►
you can still be aware of what part of the sky they’re in.
00:12:28 ►
Exactly.
00:12:29 ►
And the rituals of these different days
00:12:31 ►
would involve actually connecting with the intelligences of the planets,
00:12:35 ►
which is what the names of the days are named after.
00:12:37 ►
They could be sort of accelerators in public places,
00:12:40 ►
like a big tube which is aimed at the place in the sky
00:12:42 ►
where Jupiter is, and a little clock adjusted, and you just go up when you’re passing by, and through looking through it
00:12:48 ►
you’re aware of the fact that even if you can’t see it because it’s daytime, that’s where Jupiter is.
00:12:53 ►
That’s right. And then these things are set either by a technician or by some remote control program more easily.
00:13:00 ►
So the next day,
00:13:02 ►
you’d have Venus, Friday. And then Saturday you’d have Saturn. And each day
00:13:10 ►
there’d be a renewed awareness of the planetary bodies. And you might also have to include
00:13:14 ►
something for the more recently discovered ones, Pluto and Uranus and so on. Well, several days would have two leaders.
00:13:27 ►
But this then would be returning onto a modern version
00:13:29 ►
of those medieval cathedral clocks
00:13:31 ►
that show the astrological, astronomical configurations.
00:13:34 ►
They should be in towers,
00:13:36 ►
but of course these towers will be associated with shopping malls
00:13:39 ►
instead of with cathedrals and abbeys and so on,
00:13:41 ►
because shopping malls are actually the modern equivalent
00:13:45 ►
of the medieval abbey.
00:13:47 ►
I see. They’ve always seemed to me the most desolate
00:13:49 ►
and desanctified of places.
00:13:52 ►
Well, I was at Glastonbury Abbey recently,
00:13:55 ►
and it had, you know, a little museum,
00:13:58 ►
and then there are drawings and reconstructions of the place,
00:14:00 ►
and there’s this huge, outside the wall,
00:14:02 ►
there’s this huge market which goes on,
00:14:04 ►
which is exactly like a shopping mall people have their stall selling
00:14:08 ►
things and shopping malls are really like bazaars you see because you have
00:14:12 ►
one big building and then you have little shops with no walls around their
00:14:16 ►
soups hmm yes and the only thing missing of of course, is the actual abbey.
00:14:29 ►
Mere detail, because a bank sits in its place. We have nowhere to put it, you see,
00:14:31 ►
because we have to put it back in the middle of commerce,
00:14:33 ►
where people like to go for shopping.
00:14:36 ►
And then between the jewelry store and the grocery store,
00:14:38 ►
one would pass by this tower,
00:14:40 ►
which if you felt like it, you could ascend,
00:14:43 ►
and then take the darshan of Jupiter and Pluto.
00:14:47 ►
Yes, somehow I so hate shopping malls
00:14:49 ►
that I’d rather be able to go to it without having to go past all these shops.
00:14:52 ►
Yes, I would too, but…
00:14:54 ►
So we have to have the freestanding version,
00:14:56 ►
or the ancient sacred site version as well.
00:14:59 ►
Yes.
00:15:00 ►
Because if these things are placed on sacred sites within each,
00:15:04 ►
you know, like each town had its temple or sacred site,
00:15:07 ►
you could have a sacred center of each place where this is.
00:15:11 ►
Well, in North America we don’t have sacred sites.
00:15:13 ►
Only in Europe you have them.
00:15:15 ►
Here we have…
00:15:15 ►
Well, these would be on Native American sacred sites.
00:15:17 ►
Disneyland and, well, there’s Yellowstone.
00:15:20 ►
There’s big mountains, geysersers and some natural features where people go, but we don’t
00:15:26 ►
have this thousands of historical sites that people have to visit on the weekend. All right, well then we just have a few of these, they’d be made for a limited edition to start with, and they’d be installed at Esalen, Hollyhock, Omega, etc. Yeah. Places where a daily ability to be related to the reigning planet would actually intrigue a lot of people who came here to look through.
00:15:48 ►
And it would be a novel feature.
00:15:49 ►
Everyone would talk about it.
00:15:50 ►
It would be extremely, it would be fairly easy to make, especially if it were mentally operated.
00:15:54 ►
You see where these work-study scholars, they call them here, rotate.
00:16:00 ►
They’re quite happy at their work because they rotate the job.
00:16:02 ►
So they have this novelty factor.
00:16:04 ►
Five days of dishes and then suddenly you’re doing the sheets,
00:16:07 ►
and then you’re out cutting the lawn.
00:16:09 ►
Well, one of the jobs would have to be the maintenance of the tubes
00:16:14 ►
pointing at the heavens, and the person who did this
00:16:16 ►
would have a dunce cap and a long robe of linen
00:16:20 ►
and go about setting, you know, maybe there’d be a little pyramid, a truncated
00:16:26 ►
pyramid with a top, and you climb up the stairs like in the Yucatan, and then you have these
00:16:30 ►
tubes pointing in, and a little plaque that explains. So one person would come properly
00:16:35 ►
dressed every morning and adjust them for the day’s planet.
00:16:39 ►
Like those Arabic or Mughal observatories, like you see in Delhi. You know, they’re like
00:16:44 ►
parks, where there’s one where you go up a long ramp
00:16:47 ►
and that gives you a view on something.
00:16:49 ►
And then there are all these different ramps and tubes
00:16:51 ►
and sort of semi-circular so you can get all different viewing angles.
00:16:55 ►
That’s exactly it. It’s a kind of astronomical theme park in a way.
00:16:59 ►
You’ve got all these apparatuses which actually enable it to become a reality for you,
00:17:03 ►
a relation, by walking into it and climbing upstairs and moving around
00:17:06 ►
in parks
00:17:07 ►
Mm-hmm. So I think Stonehenge and those places must have had something of this quality. They still function in this way for a lot of people
00:17:15 ►
So the thing is it’s not difficult to construct
00:17:18 ►
Henge-like structures or these astronomical tube set up so it start with a few selected places
00:17:23 ►
A kit that could probably be mounted
00:17:26 ►
on a couple of yards square.
00:17:28 ►
A hinge kit.
00:17:30 ►
Well, this would first be the tube kit,
00:17:32 ►
the celestial observation kit with
00:17:33 ►
mini-hinge.
00:17:35 ►
That would be the first part.
00:17:38 ►
Yes, and then we’d have the
00:17:40 ►
complete hinge kit, which
00:17:42 ►
for those
00:17:43 ►
for use at schools institutions etc where
00:17:46 ►
people have got commanding views and large or farmers or open-air
00:17:49 ►
entrepreneurs in the countryside you have these henge kits established where
00:17:54 ►
you’ve got the entire line of view of if you sit in the center of the exact
00:17:59 ►
horizon position of midsummer sunrise you know equinoxes the rising points of
00:18:03 ►
the moon through its 18-year cycle of moving
00:18:06 ►
along the different points, all these marked out by the coordinates of the Henge with a
00:18:11 ►
booklet, maybe a computer program explaining exactly which ones to look for when.
00:18:17 ►
And then relation to the heavenly bodies through sitting in the center of the Henge could
00:18:22 ►
become, again, a living experience for millions of people.
00:18:26 ►
Public parks could have them. People would go for it too because they would find out through
00:18:31 ►
experience that something actually does happen to you when you look at that part of the sky,
00:18:36 ►
that the direct sight, personal observation of the sky have this effect on consciousness. It’s cheap, it’s easy to obtain in its foam,
00:18:47 ►
it’s popular as Disneyland.
00:18:49 ►
Exactly.
00:18:50 ►
So if this kit were designed,
00:18:52 ►
first the tube kit and then the hinge kit,
00:18:54 ►
based on a reliable study of ancient hinge monuments,
00:18:57 ►
including woodhenge, the materials used,
00:19:00 ►
it could be wood, you see, because woodhenge,
00:19:01 ►
or it could be stone,
00:19:03 ►
in which case one would have to send out just a…
00:19:05 ►
It would simply be an instruction manual for the kind of local stone to use.
00:19:10 ►
A computer program could aim the tools.
00:19:12 ►
Yes, and also help with the alignment of the stones.
00:19:15 ►
Although the best way, in fact, to do it would be to do it in reality,
00:19:20 ►
to go to the central point and observe the sunrise on the summer solstice.
00:19:29 ►
Yes. And mark the point, and actually do it by observation.
00:19:34 ►
Sunrise observation is the easiest one to understand.
00:19:37 ►
The heliacal rising of Venus, that’s harder.
00:19:39 ►
Somewhat tricky.
00:19:39 ►
Yeah.
00:19:41 ►
You have to recognize Venus.
00:19:43 ►
And you have to watch for several days.
00:19:47 ►
And then so much would be reclaimed. Which the remnants are still there in the names of the days and the months and all these saints days and so on.
00:19:54 ►
The remnants are everywhere. They’re reclaimable. It’s probably not too late.
00:19:58 ►
That’s right. And the other thing is that the idea of a quality of time, which is what this is about,
00:20:04 ►
the idea that time has its qualities,
00:20:06 ►
is something that already has a popular following
00:20:08 ►
in the millions who follow astrology in a vague or more professional way.
00:20:13 ►
Well, the horoscopes in the newspapers.
00:20:15 ►
Exactly.
00:20:16 ►
It’s not as if this is a new or esoteric idea.
00:20:19 ►
It’s, in fact, much more popular among uneducated.
00:20:23 ►
Magic or any other pagan element suppressed
00:20:27 ►
by modern science. This is the most popular one, is political astrology.
00:20:32 ►
The popular faith that time does in fact have variable qualities.
00:20:37 ►
And the times of birth, etc., moments of important events, etc.
00:20:43 ►
Or judicial astrology. I mean, who is doing the horoscope
00:20:45 ►
of August 2nd and the invasion of Kuwait and so on?
00:20:51 ►
Someone, I’m sure.
00:20:53 ►
Oh, I’m sure they are.
00:20:54 ►
But probably the United Nations is not consulting it.
00:20:57 ►
Probably not.
00:20:58 ►
But maybe Saddam Hussein is.
00:21:00 ►
Maybe he is.
00:21:01 ►
But elective astrology,
00:21:03 ►
which is the kind most commonly used in India,
00:21:05 ►
like picking the right date for a wedding or for starting a new business or something,
00:21:10 ►
I suppose it may be.
00:21:12 ►
I don’t know whether Saddam Hussein is using that kind of astrology.
00:21:15 ►
Maybe not.
00:21:16 ►
Well, if hench kits were about,
00:21:18 ►
and people then became, recovered their consciousness of the sky,
00:21:22 ►
then they’d be more interested in elective astrology
00:21:25 ►
because it would mean something in terms of their experience of watching the sky.
00:21:29 ►
And present-day astrology has got detached from observation.
00:21:32 ►
It’s detached. Totally detached from the sky.
00:21:34 ►
My endless complaint to astrologers is that I’ve never found one
00:21:36 ►
who can actually point to me the positions of the planets.
00:21:39 ►
If I ask, where’s Jupiter tonight?
00:21:43 ►
Astrologers don’t know any more than anyone else.
00:21:45 ►
Hardly anyone knows.
00:21:46 ►
No, because the official zodiac has got separated
00:21:48 ►
from the real zodiac by the procession of the equinox.
00:21:51 ►
So this thing, these hinge monuments,
00:21:54 ►
they connect us with the sky,
00:21:57 ►
and in that sense, through making us conscious
00:21:58 ►
of the quality of time and the relationship of the Earth
00:22:01 ►
to the larger celestial organism,
00:22:04 ►
would obviously create, by direct experience,
00:22:07 ►
some awareness of the heavens.
00:22:09 ►
I think people are probably even more unconscious
00:22:12 ►
of the heavens than the Earth right now.
00:22:14 ►
I mean, most people literally don’t know
00:22:16 ►
what the different constellations are,
00:22:18 ►
what phase of the moon it is.
00:22:20 ►
Modern city life leads to an almost unconsciousness
00:22:23 ►
of the heavenly realm.
00:22:25 ►
Whereas we’re very conscious of the earth realm,
00:22:27 ►
in terms of we know about the cause of the earth,
00:22:30 ►
we know about, you know, everyone knows geology and tectonic plates and stuff.
00:22:34 ►
Our attention is earth-directed, very much so.
00:22:36 ►
And so this heavenly connection is obviously an important step.
00:22:41 ►
Yeah.
00:22:42 ►
And then there’s the only other question I can think of,
00:22:45 ►
is the realm of psychedelics and the rediscovery of the realms of the unconscious.
00:22:49 ►
Presumably different drugs, different psychedelics and different other drugs
00:22:55 ►
tune on into different realms of the otherwise habituated or possible
00:23:00 ►
or areas of more morphine fields.
00:23:02 ►
Different spheres of human experience.
00:23:05 ►
There’s the alcohol sphere, there’s the LSD sphere, there’s the heroin sphere.
00:23:09 ►
Incidentally, the heroin is legal too, if you think about it.
00:23:13 ►
It’s legal for people who are dying.
00:23:15 ►
In our society it’s the officially recognized drug of death.
00:23:19 ►
And it’s admissible to use it in hospices, heroin and morphine,
00:23:23 ►
to dying patients to ease them through
00:23:25 ►
the pains of death so it is legal in our society but it’s the death drug yes you have to retain a
00:23:32 ►
certain not only age but a state yes okay near death so it’s interesting that’s another example
00:23:37 ►
of a legal drug that’s legal under certain conditions but not others. It occurred to me that heroin and opium, easing
00:23:47 ►
the pains of death, that death aspect of those drugs has a kind of traditional lineage of,
00:23:54 ►
opium is a kind of painkiller, it’s long been known, and as a visionary substance it’s a long
00:24:01 ►
A dream drug.
00:24:02 ►
A long lineage, it’s a dream drug, dream and death drug. Whereas cocaine,
00:24:08 ►
because in its original form taken by Indians when climbing hills and so on, was a work drug.
00:24:13 ►
And indeed, that’s what it still is for the yuppie cocaine takers that we read about in magazines.
00:24:19 ►
That’s right. So they have qualities. Drugs have, and they open up different realms of experience.
00:24:26 ►
And so there’d be different drug days and different thresholds, initiations through life and that kind of thing.
00:24:33 ►
But still we’d have to ask the question, how do these visions, which are the most intense that certainly I’ve experienced,
00:24:40 ►
how do these visions relate to the actual unconscious or consciousness of
00:24:46 ►
the natural world? Or how much are they mansions created by the human imagination? That the
00:24:53 ►
astral plane, as it were, has a cumulative memory of all previous journeys on it. And
00:24:59 ►
so in certain recurrent kinds of dream, fantasy, adventure, and dream, archetypal progress
00:25:04 ►
are kind of morphic fields in that realm.
00:25:07 ►
So there’s all these things that have ever happened in that realm,
00:25:10 ►
including adventures, constructions, creations, experiences, surprises, interpretations
00:25:16 ►
that have occurred to previous psychedelic voyagers.
00:25:20 ►
So there’s this cumulative geography.
00:25:23 ►
A kind of Akashic record.
00:25:25 ►
Yes.
00:25:26 ►
And the unconsciousness contains all this,
00:25:29 ►
and different drugs give different accesses to different parts of it.
00:25:32 ►
And so the question is how much of it would be a kind of cumulative record
00:25:35 ►
of this creative edge of the human imagination,
00:25:39 ►
or how much of it is a communication through that openness
00:25:42 ►
from the spirit of the plant or of the earth or um
00:25:46 ►
or the spirit of a star or the spirit of a star or whatever is invoked you see i suppose that
00:25:52 ►
given the laws of ceremonial magic and indeed of prayer in all traditions are that whatever
00:25:58 ►
power or presence or being you want to speak to you first invoke our Father who art in heaven hail Mary full
00:26:06 ►
of grace Om Shivaya you know you start by invoking the being or entity to whom you’re addressing
00:26:14 ►
yourself by name and so what would happen if for example one took a powerful psychoactive that
00:26:20 ►
opened one to the astral realm in starry, and then invoked a particular star by name,
00:26:26 ►
and tried to journey or connect with
00:26:29 ►
or become open to influences from that star.
00:26:32 ►
This would be one way of doing it.
00:26:34 ►
I’d be rather frightened to try it myself.
00:26:36 ►
These are the questions only the future will answer,
00:26:41 ►
that kind of thing.
00:26:42 ►
You mean this kind of research?
00:26:43 ►
Yes, this kind of research has to lie in the future.
00:26:47 ►
Well, I think we should maybe come back to your starting point about this bifurcation theory.
00:26:51 ►
You started with a bifurcation theory model of consciousness and the unconscious and
00:26:56 ►
I think this bifurcation is happening the entire time. It’s the basis, it’s the habituation process,
00:27:02 ►
which is the kind of opposite of bifurcation. What you have in habituation is like we have an awareness of that machine. If it were going on
00:27:09 ►
all day, we wouldn’t notice it. So there’s a kind of movement from an awareness of duality,
00:27:15 ►
a separation of oneself from what’s heard, a kind of consciousness of subject and object,
00:27:20 ►
that reverse bifurcates into, unifies into an unawareness of the difference between subject and object,
00:27:27 ►
which is the habituated state.
00:27:29 ►
So it may be that consciousness by its very nature involves a kind of selective awareness.
00:27:35 ►
No, I think that we’ve amissed my initial idea without replacing it,
00:27:41 ►
because I agree that the history of consciousness…
00:27:46 ►
I mean, I just sort of adopted for the sake of discussion this idea of the consciousness of the planet,
00:27:51 ►
and so I agree that the history of consciousness is more properly called the history of unconsciousness,
00:27:57 ►
and it’s the nature of the mind to be unconscious most of the time, because consciousness is a crowded little window.
00:28:05 ►
However, this other idea of experience being denied on the basis of authority and dogma
00:28:12 ►
and ritual and so on, which should be ours, our heritage of perception and experience,
00:28:19 ►
vanished from us by denial.
00:28:22 ►
The idea that chaos is bad, for example, but this is another kind of
00:28:26 ►
unconsciousness. This is the unavailable part of the unconscious over which is illegal, difficult,
00:28:33 ►
and perhaps even impossible to fly your plane and look out the window of consciousness and observe
00:28:39 ►
it. It becomes unavailable. This is the dark part of unconsciousness. And this kind of unconsciousness, I think, is created at a certain time in history. And there is a bifurcation for it.
00:28:50 ►
And previously, certainly in microbial life, we do not have an idea of prohibited experience,
00:28:57 ►
of a denial of valid experience, and so on. All that can be smelled, eaten, excluded, and so on, exhaled, all of this is okay.
00:29:08 ►
Denial, I think, is a recent phenomenon,
00:29:12 ►
and here there’s a serious danger for evolution,
00:29:16 ►
because once the experience is denied,
00:29:19 ►
then evolution is shunted off its track.
00:29:21 ►
What point in time do you think it was when this happened?
00:29:24 ►
Well, this patriarchal business, I don’t know if the whole complex has a particular element
00:29:29 ►
which is the dominant, leading, or causative one.
00:29:32 ►
But there’s the patriarchy, the patrilineal, the nuclear family, the identification of
00:29:40 ►
order with good and disorder with bad, the idea that order is only homeostasis or periodic phenomenon,
00:29:47 ►
that which has been associated by Hamlet’s mill,
00:29:52 ►
you know, with the precession of the equinox,
00:29:54 ►
that the order of the heavens is broken by the equinoctial sunrise
00:30:02 ►
moving from one constellation to another, destroying all possibility apparently
00:30:08 ►
of understanding the heavens.
00:30:10 ►
Something around there that is 6,000 years ago, 5,000, 4,000 years ago, that there was
00:30:16 ►
a special new mode of thought, prohibition of valid experience, was begun.
00:30:23 ►
I think that’s a real fall from grace.
00:30:26 ►
And on the basis of that, we have real evil now,
00:30:29 ►
which is the problem of life.
00:30:31 ►
There is this growing evil.
00:30:34 ►
There is the destruction of integrity.
00:30:36 ►
There is the death of nature, and so on.
00:30:43 ►
These are real problems. And I think that they’re new problems and that they have a
00:30:48 ►
history and it has to do with denial. It’s not only the Christianity that made certain experiences
00:30:58 ►
illegal, the spiritual for example, deciding that the spirit is illegal in 879, in a synodic council,
00:31:06 ►
in a political meeting of bishops,
00:31:09 ►
this kind of thing,
00:31:10 ►
where the prohibitions of Islam,
00:31:15 ►
of Christianity, of Judaism,
00:31:18 ►
and so on, of political gatherings,
00:31:22 ►
and the repression of psychedelic drugs, of religious felonies,
00:31:27 ►
the destruction of the goddess, replacement of the goddess by gods, the destruction, the
00:31:35 ►
end of the magical invocation of the plentiful produce in the garden.
00:31:40 ►
I mean, there’s so many things that became illegal. There’s a dogmatic rejection
00:31:46 ►
of actual experience
00:31:48 ►
that creates a situation where
00:31:50 ►
we cannot fly our plane over this part of
00:31:51 ►
unconscious. We cannot reclaim
00:31:53 ►
a view of it. It’s not
00:31:56 ►
legal to have a spiritual experience,
00:31:58 ►
to have an emotional… Men in this culture can’t
00:31:59 ►
have an emotional experience. So,
00:32:01 ►
finally, our consciousness is limited
00:32:03 ►
in a way which can’t be restored
00:32:05 ►
simply by a willingness to devote one day to attention, variation, observation of the
00:32:13 ►
difference or amplification. It just becomes unavailable. And I think that we have touched
00:32:20 ►
on some means that can be used to restore, when it became legal, to try to heal ourselves from the effect of this denial.
00:32:30 ►
And the means are there, and we’ve discussed them,
00:32:32 ►
but there’s a certain political step which is necessary that we haven’t touched upon,
00:32:38 ►
which would legislate into existence these henges and so on,
00:32:45 ►
which would make it legal to hinge,
00:32:48 ►
would make it okay to hinge.
00:32:50 ►
We don’t know how to produce this station
00:32:52 ►
to regain what is lost.
00:32:54 ►
After something has become not okay,
00:32:56 ►
it’s very hard to reclaim it.
00:32:58 ►
And the fact that chaos is considered so bad,
00:33:01 ►
it’s very hard to undo this damage.
00:33:05 ►
Except through observing chaos’s day, which is like the Saturn alias,
00:33:09 ►
where they had the reversal of the social order and so on.
00:33:11 ►
Holy is like that in India.
00:33:13 ►
All these Saturn alias, like May Day and May Eve in Europe.
00:33:18 ►
The true goddess festivals.
00:33:20 ►
Yes.
00:33:20 ►
Serpents alive and well.
00:33:22 ►
Dragons on the run.
00:33:24 ►
The play in the fields of the Lord
00:33:25 ►
do these days still exist?
00:33:28 ►
well they do yes
00:33:29 ►
Halloween is one example
00:33:31 ►
Halloween is one example
00:33:33 ►
yes Halloween is on the comeback
00:33:34 ►
and Halloween is
00:33:36 ►
in England
00:33:39 ►
the effect of All Hallows Eve
00:33:41 ►
the reversal of the social order
00:33:43 ►
is celebrated sometimes in many places the night before Guy Fawkes, November 4th, called Mischief Night, which is when people can carry out mischief that normally otherwise would be extremely prohibited.
00:34:04 ►
knife between undergraduates and town boys, gather in the market square and pitch battles, which culminated in my second year in the burning down of the
00:34:09 ►
police shed in the center of the marketplace and in some thing that went
00:34:13 ►
too far and involved large-scale police intervention and the proctors of the
00:34:17 ►
university had to act to restore order. And from the following years all
00:34:22 ►
undergraduates were prohibited to leave their colleges on Mischief Night,
00:34:26 ►
or at least had to return by 9 p.m., and had to be wearing at all times their academic dress and gowns so they could be identified,
00:34:33 ►
which, of course, fanned up town attacks because undergraduates were…
00:34:36 ►
Of course, they were easy mark.
00:34:38 ►
Anyway, this was all a relic of a kind of… one of these reverses.
00:34:42 ►
So one is the Halloween or November the 4th Mischief Night one.
00:34:44 ►
a relic of a kind of one of these reverse so one is the halloween or november the fourth mischief night one the other is the mardi gras carnival uh show tuesday beginning of lent festival that’s the
00:34:51 ►
other big one these exist in places like brazil they exist as highly effective dissolvers of the
00:34:57 ►
social order into this kind of primal chaos carnival i’d like to see a resurrection of magic as well, and that magic should become white magic.
00:35:06 ►
There’d be some modern analog of voodoo in which one would seek to do well to a person.
00:35:13 ►
I think it’s possible to raise the frequency to lighten the dark and so on of many places that had fallen into disuse
00:35:21 ►
and that the garden maintenance had not been done.
00:35:23 ►
fallen into disuse and that the garden maintenance had not been done. There’s overrun with weeds and so on as it were on the magical level that these places
00:35:30 ►
could be sweetened with banishment ceremonies and so on.
00:35:37 ►
That we’d need to learn a technology that would sort of connect the star magic of the Hinges and so on with the progress of daily life and the political events.
00:35:49 ►
Because we may have great powers that aren’t being used
00:35:52 ►
since we don’t believe in them.
00:35:53 ►
This kind of reclaiming the denied, the illegal, the rejected,
00:36:02 ►
the dogmatically destroyed, the unavailable unconscious which contains enormous powers for doing good, as it were,
00:36:11 ►
which have been somehow, they’ve been denied by the forces of evil acting through governments, churches, and so on,
00:36:20 ►
through councils of bishops, ecumenical councils,
00:36:28 ►
putting evil thoughts in the mind of somebody at a certain moment that they begin to lobby for a vote to deny, to reject, make illegal something
00:36:34 ►
which is actually an enormous power for good.
00:36:38 ►
I think that England is the place where these reversals seem to be going on
00:36:43 ►
at the maximum possible rate involving a lot of people supported by…
00:36:47 ►
Henges still exist everywhere.
00:36:49 ►
I’m surprised you should think this.
00:36:51 ►
This is based on your recent visit to Glastonbury.
00:36:54 ►
Yes.
00:36:55 ►
And what happened?
00:36:57 ►
Well, there’s a lot of traffic going up and down Glastonbury Tor.
00:37:01 ►
There are people all over Glastonbury Abbey looking at it, loving it,
00:37:06 ►
studying the pictures of it restored, getting the feeling of the thing, understanding what
00:37:12 ►
it would be like to live in a society that had fantastic spiritual integrity. And particularly
00:37:22 ►
the studies of the ley lines
00:37:25 ►
and the St. Michael and St. Mary’s lines
00:37:28 ►
that go up and down in the country
00:37:29 ►
where places like Avebury and Grastonbury
00:37:35 ►
belong to this line.
00:37:37 ►
And so many people are now marching this line.
00:37:40 ►
They’re flying over it.
00:37:42 ►
They’re photographing it from airplanes.
00:37:44 ►
They’re walking along it. They’re dousing it, they’re having the personal experience of the pagan
00:37:51 ►
legacy, and they’re re-evoking these things through discussions and publication of books
00:37:57 ►
and reading books and having meetings about and actually going to the sites. It’s thousands of people,
00:38:07 ►
and it’s a holiday destination,
00:38:09 ►
destination resort,
00:38:10 ►
Glastonbury Abbey,
00:38:12 ►
Dorchester Abbey,
00:38:13 ►
Darkmoor.
00:38:14 ►
It’s incredible.
00:38:15 ►
Yes, it’s true.
00:38:18 ►
And there are a lot of earth mystery circles.
00:38:19 ►
I mean, the lay hunters,
00:38:22 ►
and these are mostly quite small societies,
00:38:23 ►
but they do exist.
00:38:24 ►
But I’d always assume there must be something comparable here
00:38:26 ►
in the recovery of Native American traditions and secret places.
00:38:29 ►
Not yet.
00:38:30 ►
There are teachers and there are centers like Ojai and so on
00:38:34 ►
where they have these people who seem still to be
00:38:39 ►
in quite good command of the old traditions.
00:38:42 ►
They have workshops and people do come
00:38:46 ►
and so on, but it’s just nothing
00:38:48 ►
like the scale of individual
00:38:50 ►
popular archaeology going
00:38:52 ►
on in England. It’s
00:38:53 ►
decades, decades away from that.
00:38:56 ►
Really? Well, maybe there’s some
00:38:58 ►
hope then. I didn’t see England
00:39:00 ►
as being particularly a center for
00:39:02 ►
this kind of thing, although I think the
00:39:04 ►
Corn Circle mystery, it’s perhaps no coincidence that it’s happened
00:39:08 ►
principally in England because it’s a perfect country to intrigue people I
00:39:13 ►
think that whether the corn circles are the the world soul or the Gaian soul
00:39:17 ►
rather working through in training vortices of wind or or working by direct
00:39:22 ►
kind of psychic kinesis or however they’re created, they’re
00:39:26 ►
obviously a kind of message because they’ve started quite recently.
00:39:29 ►
You know, people would have noticed them before if they’d been going on for years.
00:39:32 ►
That in itself is intriguing that they should start.
00:39:35 ►
And they happen near places like Silbury Hill and these ancient power, mostly in the west
00:39:39 ►
of England where most of these power spots are.
00:39:42 ►
And everybody in Britain, in every pub out and down the country,
00:39:46 ►
television programs, and from the Queen downwards,
00:39:48 ►
there was a report in the papers that she’d taken two books on corn circles
00:39:51 ►
with her for Christmas reading last year because she was so intrigued
00:39:54 ►
by the phenomenon and often discussed it at the palace.
00:39:58 ►
You know, from the Queen downwards, everybody’s intrigued by them
00:40:01 ►
and there’s no clear hypothesis at all.
00:40:03 ►
It’s kind of a koan that’s being posed for the collective consciousness.
00:40:08 ►
Well, there’s a journal of seriology. I’m a subscriber.
00:40:12 ►
John Michelle is the editor.
00:40:14 ►
The interesting thing is that all of this stuff has been connected up,
00:40:17 ►
and the whole Earth Mysteries movement,
00:40:19 ►
their motto is kind of a general systems approach to all these different things. Try to
00:40:31 ►
synthesize the learnings about the ley lines, the hinges, the corn circles into
00:40:38 ►
super understanding of the Gaian physiology and the relationship with our
00:40:44 ►
evolution and the history of consciousness. It’s the only place I know. Maybe in Brittany there’s a French equivalent that we don’t know much about because not knowing French well enough.
00:40:48 ►
That’s possible. I think the ley line idea actually occurred first in Brittany.
00:40:54 ►
Just, I mean, it seems to me that we’ve obviously been talking about the unconscious
00:40:57 ►
in a much wider sense. We’ve been talking about the Gaian unconscious or the natural
00:41:02 ►
unconscious in a much wider sense than Jung’s
00:41:06 ►
still humanistic idea of the collective unconscious, which, although being unconscious,
00:41:11 ►
it’s hard to assign it boundaries, is generally assumed by Jung and his followers to be confined
00:41:16 ►
to humanity. Yes, a very limiting hypothesis, a dangerous hypothesis. The first one that we want
00:41:22 ►
to transcend is the separation of the human unconscious from the other unconscious. Yes.
00:41:27 ►
So that’s a curtain, that’s one of the curtains you’re talking about in the consciousness,
00:41:32 ►
because as soon as you say that the human unconscious is separate, or the human consciousness
00:41:37 ►
was the first thing Descartes said, separate from the entire realm of matter, then you
00:41:41 ►
get the idea of the unconscious and the extension of mind, and they’re separate from the unconsciousness of the rest of nature. You cut off human consciousness
00:41:50 ►
into a human sphere or balloon with no windows, no true windows or openings to the world of nature.
00:41:57 ►
I think one of the important correlates that I always hesitate to mention or mention
00:42:02 ►
last is eating meat, domesticated animals
00:42:06 ►
and eating them. I mean,
00:42:08 ►
like the Maasai, for example, you have
00:42:10 ►
dairy,
00:42:13 ►
you know, and then
00:42:14 ►
you have eating the older
00:42:16 ►
animals when they die, that’s one
00:42:18 ►
thing, but then like breeding them and
00:42:20 ►
killing them only to eat them
00:42:22 ►
is another. And I
00:42:24 ►
think it’s impossible to do that
00:42:25 ►
at the same time that you imagine a continuity
00:42:29 ►
between your own spirit and the spirit of the animal.
00:42:31 ►
So associated with this animal domestication
00:42:37 ►
and eating habit addiction
00:42:40 ►
is the denial of consciousness in the animals,
00:42:44 ►
which is one of those veils,
00:42:45 ►
which then excludes microbes, plants, and the whole of Gaia.
00:42:51 ►
It’s a human-centered veil-generating device
00:42:56 ►
is eating these things, or drinking the blood instead of the milk.
00:43:01 ►
Yes, and it seems quite…
00:43:03 ►
I mean, it’s associated with the dominator mode, presumably.
00:43:06 ►
This idea that since the dominators came out of herders and hunters
00:43:10 ►
rather than the agricultural people,
00:43:12 ►
by conquering the fixed agricultural set,
00:43:15 ►
the dominators were agricultural pastoralists.
00:43:18 ►
And presumably the model there is that just as you break horses
00:43:21 ►
and you dominate flocks of sheep and cows
00:43:24 ►
by riding around on horseback or by whatever means you use to dominate.
00:43:29 ►
You get the sheep into sheepfolds and shepherds control the flocks and so on.
00:43:34 ►
Then it’s a short step from doing that to people,
00:43:36 ►
where people become the herds.
00:43:38 ►
And human sacrifices were common in the rituals
00:43:42 ►
and probably the sacrificed meat was eaten.
00:43:45 ►
They used to have a meat shop outside the temple, because after the sacrifice, of course, they’d sell the meat.
00:43:51 ►
And that was considered bad for the temple to raise money by selling the meat and sacrifice the animal.
00:43:56 ►
So in the case of the human sacrifices, with the Mayans, for example,
00:44:00 ►
I wouldn’t be surprised if eating the victim was part of the practice.
00:44:04 ►
And this certainly must involve a lot of denial.
00:44:09 ►
And these denials are kind of one-way transactions.
00:44:13 ►
It’s very hard to recover.
00:44:16 ►
I suppose it takes generations of being vegetarian
00:44:19 ►
before you can relate to a food animal like a cow.
00:44:24 ►
I had a friend, Danielle, he’d see a cow. And then the cow would say
00:44:28 ►
to Danielle, moo. And Danielle would say, hamburger.
00:44:32 ►
I think we should quit here.
00:44:37 ►
Well, I guess if you weren’t already a vegetarian
00:44:40 ►
that you’re either going to give it serious thought right now or
00:44:43 ►
you’re going to put Ralph’s comments about eating a conscious animal right out of your own consciousness.
00:44:50 ►
It’s an interesting choice, don’t you think?
00:44:53 ►
As I was listening to this conversation with you just now,
00:44:57 ►
it struck me how well the subscribers to this podcast would fit into the ebb and flow of the discussion.
00:45:03 ►
This podcast would fit into the ebb and flow of the discussion.
00:45:10 ►
Some of the emails I’ve received lately lead me to believe that you guys could hold your own with these trial loggers.
00:45:19 ►
Which brings me to a suggestion that Tom made recently about trying to put together a Skype cast with multiple participants.
00:45:21 ►
He began by saying, I continue to enjoy the trilogues, but I must confess I am almost at a complete intellectual saturation with the ideas being presented.
00:45:31 ►
And then he went on to propose the Skype cast where we could hear others’ takes on the information being presented.
00:45:39 ►
Well, Tom, I do like that idea.
00:45:42 ►
And in fact, I’ve already been corresponding with some of the people over at the Cannabis Podcast Network about doing something like that.
00:45:50 ►
But I do like your suggestion of expanding the idea to focus on a particular trial log or something like that.
00:45:57 ►
I can’t say how soon any of this will be worked out, but even though the tech is basically here, it’s a matter of finding the time to
00:46:05 ►
fit something new like that into our schedules.
00:46:08 ►
But eventually, I’m sure we’re going to be doing some things like that, and in the meantime,
00:46:13 ►
I’m about to release the upgrade to the notes from the Psychedelic Salon blog, where I’ll
00:46:19 ►
be posting the program notes to these podcasts in the near future.
00:46:23 ►
And that way, you can all interact, at least within the comments section for each podcast. Thank you. bug in there that has the entire wiki locked up right now. And I haven’t taken the time to fix it because I think the blog and comment
00:46:47 ►
format will be easier for everybody to use.
00:46:51 ►
I also got a nice email from Lauren who asked if I was torrent
00:46:55 ►
savvy. Well, Lauren, I wish I could say I was, but
00:46:59 ►
that wouldn’t be very accurate. I am aware of how
00:47:03 ►
BitTorrent works in general,
00:47:05 ►
but I still haven’t had the time to get into the whole technical details
00:47:09 ►
of what needs to be done to make these podcasts more torrent-friendly.
00:47:14 ►
But thanks to John M., I’ve begun to look into it,
00:47:17 ►
and once the new blog is finished,
00:47:19 ►
you hopefully will find several options for listening to these podcasts,
00:47:23 ►
and torrent will be one of them.
00:47:24 ►
Hopefully we’ll find several options for listening to these podcasts, and Torrent will be one of them.
00:47:30 ►
I also want to mention an artist who was brought to my attention by Sharon, who wrote about Dennis Namkina, whose paintings have been speaking to the subject of the Hopi migration
00:47:37 ►
from this, the fourth world, into the fifth, final and most peaceful world throughout his career.
00:47:44 ►
And she went on to say that several of his paintings are, and I quote,
00:47:48 ►
on display at the University of Richmond, but are due to be moved,
00:47:53 ►
new placement yet to be determined.
00:47:55 ►
They are each seven foot by seven foot and full of mythology, symbolism, and juicy color. If you want to know more, you can visit the website at www.numkena.com.
00:48:11 ►
Thanks for sending that information, Sharon.
00:48:13 ►
And if you find out where the new placement for these paintings will be, please let us know.
00:48:20 ►
Now that I’ve seen some copies of Dennis’ work, boy, it’s really breathtaking in its scope and beauty.
00:48:27 ►
I can just hardly imagine what it would be like to experience this art in person, so I’d love to find out where it’s going from here.
00:48:34 ►
Also, I got a nice email from Jeffrey, who has been a fan of Terrence McKenna’s since first meeting him back in 1991.
00:48:42 ►
You were really lucky, Jeffrey. I only met him for the first time in 1998,
00:48:47 ►
so I didn’t have all that many opportunities to hear him in person before he died.
00:48:52 ►
But I do have a lot of his old tapes,
00:48:55 ►
because fortunately, my wife first heard him speak at a conference in the early 1980s.
00:49:00 ►
And then she managed to hear him several times a year after that.
00:49:04 ►
So I’ve got a lot of Terrence around here.
00:49:07 ►
And Jeffrey, by the way, I really also appreciate you mentioning the fact that you used the program notes for one of the trilogues to find a quote that you remembered from the program.
00:49:17 ►
Well, for what it’s worth, that is the very first mention I’ve received about the program notes that I’ve started doing for these podcasts.
00:49:24 ►
Very first mention I’ve received about the program notes that I’ve started doing for these podcasts.
00:49:30 ►
They still aren’t up to the level of the notes that you’ll find on the C-Realm or over at the Cannabis Podcast Network.
00:49:36 ►
But now that I know that they’re being used, I’m all charged up about making them better as time goes on.
00:49:39 ►
So, thanks for mentioning that, Jeffrey.
00:49:45 ►
And also thank you for contacting the Institute of Noetic Sciences about these trialogues.
00:49:48 ►
Here’s what Jeffrey had to say about ions.
00:49:58 ►
Quote, I’ve been so captivated by the trialogues that I emailed Ralph and asked him if he would consider granting ions access to his collection of tapes as well.
00:50:00 ►
He replied in assent.
00:50:01 ►
End of quote.
00:50:08 ►
And so, now it looks like these trialogues may continue to increase their distribution on the Internet.
00:50:11 ►
By the way, if you don’t already know about ions,
00:50:15 ►
you’ll probably really find it worth your time to see what they have to offer.
00:50:21 ►
You can find them online at www.ions.org.
00:50:27 ►
And I highly recommend their magazine for those of you who are into offline reading as well.
00:50:33 ►
Finally, I want to comment on a wonderful email I received from Cooper, who describes himself as a high school student living under the oppressive educational system.
00:50:40 ►
And he went on to say, quote,
00:50:42 ►
I’m sure you may already have some picture of this, but I really just wanted to bring your attention to the fact that your audience is not just comprised of the established core following and the regular burners, but your podcast has succeeded in reaching out to new people, such as myself, who have no prior affiliation with the larger community.
00:51:02 ►
No prior affiliation with the larger community.
00:51:05 ►
Well, it’s really good of you to point that out, Cooper,
00:51:10 ►
because your generation is exactly who I’m really hoping to reach with these podcasts.
00:51:16 ►
You know, ever since that twisted little mind of Nancy Reagan came up with her Just Say No campaign,
00:51:22 ►
the schools in the states have been brainwashing the most important members of our society into equating the use of entheogens with the use of things like methamphetamines, crack cocaine, and other non-psychedelic substances.
00:51:31 ►
I think it’s critically important that your generation reformulate Mrs. Reagan’s nonsensical saying
00:51:37 ►
by spelling no, K-N-O-W.
00:51:41 ►
And the best place I know of to begin to K-N-O-W, more about these important plants, chemicals, and states of mind, is at arrowid.org.
00:51:52 ►
That’s E-R-O-W-I-D dot org.
00:51:56 ►
You know, if people don’t get anything else out of these podcasts, I hope that they learn that there’s a significant amount of good information available about this important subject.
00:52:05 ►
Another example of good information out there is the Entheogen Review.
00:52:10 ►
This is a little periodical that comes out about four times a year
00:52:14 ►
and bills itself as the Journal of Unauthorized Research on Visionary Plants and Drugs.
00:52:21 ►
And in the latest edition, you can find articles like one by Dr. Rick Strassman,
00:52:26 ►
who did the Breakthrough DMT Research Study, and in that he talks about becoming a psychedelic
00:52:32 ►
researcher. Also, John Hanna has a must-read essay titled, Security Issues in the Underground.
00:52:40 ►
And for you kitchen chemists out there, you might be interested in the article titled,
00:52:45 ►
DMT for the Massens.
00:52:48 ►
And there’s also a fascinating article about entheogens in video games,
00:52:52 ►
in addition to a whole bunch of other information that you might find interesting.
00:52:57 ►
You can find more about the ER at www.entheogenreview.org.
00:53:03 ►
www.entheogenreview.org E-N-T-H-E-O-G-E-N-R-E-V-I-E-W
00:53:08 ►
All one word,.org
00:53:10 ►
At least if that kind of information interests you,
00:53:14 ►
that’s a really good periodical, I think.
00:53:16 ►
I guess that was just a long-winded way of saying
00:53:19 ►
that I really appreciate all of you out there with us
00:53:22 ►
here in the psychedelic salon,
00:53:24 ►
no matter what your age or experience level with these sacred medicines.
00:53:28 ►
Because, you know, after all, our focus here in the salon is primarily on the state and evolution of human consciousness
00:53:34 ►
and on our own individual consciousnesses.
00:53:38 ►
So thanks to all of you for spending a little of your time with us here in the salon each week.
00:53:43 ►
It’s nice to know
00:53:45 ►
you’re here. And before I go, I guess I should mention that this and all of the podcasts from
00:53:50 ►
the Psychedelic Salon are protected under the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial
00:53:55 ►
Share Alike 2.5 license. And if you have any questions on that, you can click on the link at
00:54:01 ►
the bottom of the Psychedelic Salon webpage, which may be found at matrixmasters.com slash podcasts.
00:54:08 ►
And if you still have questions, you can send them an email to lorenzo at matrixmasters.com.
00:54:15 ►
And thank you to Chateau Hayuk for letting me use your music here in the Psychedelic Salon.
00:54:21 ►
And for now, this is Lorenzozo signing off from Cyberdelic Space.
00:54:26 ►
Be well, my friends.
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