Program Notes
Guest speakers: Alex & Allyson Grey, Martina Hoffmann, Roberto Venosa
This program is part one of the Art Panel presentation for the Palenque Norte lectures at the 2006 Burning Man festival. In this program Alex Grey talks about the purpose of visionary art, Allyson Grey explains her vision of personal sacred spaces, Martina Hoffmann advises us to not underestimate our own creativity, and Roberto Venosa describes the process of channeling energy from higher dimensions into visionary art.
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Transcript
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Greetings from cyberdelic space, this is Lorenzo and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic
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Salon.
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Well, guess what?
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I bragged a little too soon about getting five really good recordings from this year’s Palenque Norte lectures.
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When I went to upload the mini-disc recording of the art panel, I discovered that the disc was blank.
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I guess I shouldn’t be too surprised, because it was our first attempt to record directly from the mixing board this year.
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Unfortunately, our initial experiment didn’t work.
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Unfortunately, our initial experiment didn’t work.
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So today’s program isn’t going to have the sound clarity that we had for the Eric Davis and Daniel Pinchbeck talks,
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but for a Burning Man recording, it’s at least salvageable.
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The topic of this panel was the future of visionary art,
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and the artists were Alex and Allison Gray, Martina Hoffman, and Roberto Venosa.
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As you’ll hear, each of them first gave a brief presentation,
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and then we opened it up to questions from the audience.
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So without any further ado, here are some thoughts about the future of visionary art
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by four of the world’s leading visionary artists.
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visionary artists.
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Allison and I are extremely honored to
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be
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part of
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Entheon Village this
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year.
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And this is
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a kind of
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historic coalescing of
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the minds
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of science
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and art and spirituality to point toward a positive future for entheogens.
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And it’s really what has come clearer is that for me, the future of visionary art,
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because this is a talk that will go around the subject of the future of visionary or psychedelic art.
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For me, it’s important for us to not only wander in the desert, but begin to build a temple that is based on this kind of new spirituality
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and urgency toward a more universal and embracing kind of
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love energy that
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cuts to the
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underlying core of the wisdom
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traditions to create spaces
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that birth
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new archetypes
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the new universal archetypes
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that are emerging through our entheogenic
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experiences
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I want to build the real entheon.
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I want to build the permanent temple
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that will house the psychedelic and spiritual, you know,
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realizations that’s coming through our communities
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and all the great artists that are making work now.
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We’d like to contribute the
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Chasm, the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors, to such
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a structure. We know that there’s numerous other
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kinds of collections of important
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relics.
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Because I was
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thinking, a thousand years from
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now, do you think that Dr.
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Hoffman’s invention will be relevant
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if there is a human race
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and I think yes
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we were just at Chartres Cathedral
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in France
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just earlier this summer
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we made a pilgrimage there with Wisdom University
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and this is a place dedicated to the Divine Mother.
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The mystery school that founded Chartres Cathedral was exactly a thousand years ago this year, 2006.
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Bishop Fulbert creates this mystery school
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that led to the creation of the cathedrals all over Europe.
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So a new kind of sacred space came out of this mystery school,
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and it was through them going to their enemies,
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the Muslims that were being killed in the Crusades,
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these people went with a sense of there is an underlying unity in our
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spiritualities, and they found the Sufis, and the Sufis gave them a sacred geometry
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that helped them to birth the cathedrals.
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And so, you know, a thousand years later, we’re still, you know, Christians killing
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Muslims, and, you know, humanity’s at this kind of crisis point. thousand years later we’re still Christians killing Muslims and
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humanities at this kind of crisis
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point and for
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all
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the wisdom traditions and for
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the new kind of psychedelic
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visionaries
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to come together
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and find the underlying
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threads of
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the perennial philosophy and the perennial visions
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that will sustain our real kind of mystic realities, bringing them into form,
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validating them for other people.
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That’s what I feel like the real function of visionary art is,
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is it validates other people’s visionary states.
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And they say, you know, so many people come up to me and say,
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my God, that piece you did reminds me exactly of this experience that I had.
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And in a way, that validates me.
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But for them, many of them have said,
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man, I thought I was going crazy until I could show people your crazy-ass shit.
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And then I could demonstrate what I’m talking about.
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And so a sacred space would validate
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those kinds of sort of mystic breakthroughs that we have
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that we don’t see reflected in our world that often.
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And so there’s an almost amorphic resonance
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kind of importance
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to creating these
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outcropics like at Entheon Village
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here.
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Because we’re wanting to
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load our unconscious
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and our superconscious
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with these possibilities of
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our own realization
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or our own, at least, spiritual growth.
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So I see it as a very…
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I’m really on fire about creating
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new permanent sacred architecture.
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And so I hope that it resonates with some of you.
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And we built this chapel of sacred mirrors
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in New York City.
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And it’s a house for a lot of visionary
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cultural activities and 50 of my works
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and numerous of Allison’s works.
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And this is our kind of walk-in brochure
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to some of the architectural
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and inspirational qualities that such a sacred space could have. walk-in brochure to some of the architectural and
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inspirational qualities
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that such a sacred space could have.
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And so
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we’re willing to talk with anyone about
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developing this vision further.
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We have so many amazing artists
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that if we were able to
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exhibit together
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various ways
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that have a performance
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area and
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I can just see a real Entheon
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coming and I came up with this name
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Entheon because of
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the word Pantheon
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which is like all the gods
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that amazing structure in Rome
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but
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Entheon of course
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related to Entheogen
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the sacrament that allows access to the
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God within, the spirit within
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Entheon would be a place
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to discover the God within
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and so
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I like that as a thought
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of a new kind of sacred structure
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that we could
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create in this hopeful
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future that we’re pointing toward.
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So is that enough?
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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I thought a lot about what I would say because I felt that this is my 15 minutes
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that I get to say whatever I want, really.
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I mean, the future of visionary art is the theme,
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but I can kind of say what’s really important to me,
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to my community, and I know that you’ll hear me.
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Wow, what an honor to be able to do that.
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Zina said when she was really little,
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somebody asked her, why would you like to be famous?
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Because she wanted to be famous.
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She said, because people will listen to you.
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So I have to say that we’re not really famous,
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but, I mean, you’re listening to me,
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and I just want to tell you how honored I am.
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And that was really what I wanted to start with,
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was just the feeling of honor.
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First, I honor you for just, you know, there’s, what is it,
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45,000 people here, and there’s lots of things to do,
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and you, on an afternoon, are coming indoors people a year and there’s lots of things to do and you on an afternoon
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are coming indoors to do this with us and just to hear us
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and so thank you so much and so many
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of you have come in and met us
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painting next door in the Cosmodome
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just in the past few days and you have
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just made it over there and you’ve
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said wonderful things about Alex’s work and my work
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and how much you love it and how much it means to you.
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And I thank you so much for finding us
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and for saying that and for honoring us.
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And the honor of being here and having a 60-foot dome
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and having all these banners made and having all these banners made
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and having all these people help us put it up
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and having all of you come
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is such a great and incredible honor.
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And certainly having our chapel in New York
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being supported by people like you.
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I just hope so much that every one of you will come,
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not just once, but more than once
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when you come, make it a point to come back
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bring somebody with you
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see it’s a pyramid scheme
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we’re going to share this and we’re going to
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be the critical mass
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that really takes over
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so that we can transform our planet so that we can transform our
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planet so that we can survive.
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So we must do this. It’s an
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imperative. And the chapel is
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a node.
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A chapel is a node in the network. We all know
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being here that we’ve got
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the Colorado crowd, we’ve got the
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Chicago crowd, we’ve got the New York crowd.
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And I could keep going on it all day.
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Every state, every pocket is a node
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and we have friends everywhere
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so what I want to say
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the chapel is a node
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it’s our New York node baby
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I love it, it’s so beautiful
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and you must come, we have the best time
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and I wanted to invite you
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this is sort of my scheme
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I wanted to invite you to See, this is sort of my scheme.
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I wanted to invite you to make sacred space in your home.
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You know, make yourself a chapel.
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You don’t have to call it a chapel if you don’t want to.
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Call it whatever you want.
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But a sacred space in your personal space.
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Now, you could do it like on an altar.
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We all have them.
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We probably all have little altars. I bet everybody does. With crystals on it. You know, something positive.
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Just so that we go there and we say, these are my beautiful, special things.
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But then, if you have ambition, like a lot of people here do
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because of all this amazing art. If you have ambition,
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make a chapel in your backyard. Or in
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your community.
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You know, a community center like the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors.
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Make it there.
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But if you want to make another
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Chapel of Sacred Mirrors,
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if you want to, say, use Alex’s art
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and make a replica of the
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Chapel of Sacred Mirrors in your community
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or in your…
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We can help you do that.
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I would love to help you do that.
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So, yeah, so we’re down for, but you’ve got to work with us.
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That’s the promise. And the promise
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is not to do it without us because
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this is what it’s all about, really. This is the bottom line. It’s called
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honoring the source. See, we’re all here to honor the source.
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We go there, we’re all here to honor the source. We go there.
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We journey there.
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We see the source of creativity and the source of originality,
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the source of our creativity, and that’s who we honor.
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It’s the one.
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So I’m just saying, honor the one.
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Make your own chapel.
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But if you want to make it with us, we’d love to help you.
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Just make it with us, we’d love to help you. Just make it with us.
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The source.
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And that’s the person that I really want to honor.
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Me, just personally, is Alex.
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I just would like to honor him.
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The source of my life.
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I think he’s the most beautiful person.
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And, what’s that siren?
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And, an affirmation.
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I think that must be it, yeah.
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So anyway, that’s about honoring and about making a chapel.
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I so think we all should have them in our communities.
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And I’d love to have a chapel of sacred mirrors in your community.
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I mean, it could be, you know, your community center.
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You could do your own rituals there. You could do the full moon there, the new moon there,
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and your own rituals there if you wanted to. We love the full moon. If you come to there. You could do the full moon there, the new moon there, and your own rituals there, if you wanted to.
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We love the full moon.
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If you come to New York, come to the full moon
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or the new moon ceremonies. They’re just
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absolutely wonderful. So anyway,
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we love you. That’s what
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we’re committed to,
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is creating…
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I sort of
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have a state to say this, but
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we love so much this motto,
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this mantra, leave no trace.
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It is such a beautiful one.
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And we know that we want to respect the earth.
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I dropped some stuff on the ground the other day,
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and I had to pick it all up,
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every crumb, and put it in a bag.
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And I really looked at the ground.
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I mean, I never looked at the ground so much. It looked like a skin. It looked like there
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was skin, and I would hurt it. I didn’t want to hurt it. So anyway, we love the leave no
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trace motto. I also would like to leave a trace. I would like to leave a trace for our
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community. I love coming here and cleaning up every year, but I’d also like to, on the other side,
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leave something of our experience, our common experience.
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What makes us a community?
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What makes us a community is the primary religious experience,
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as Bob Jesse would say.
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And it’s like personal contact with the divine.
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That’s why we’re here.
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So anyway, I’m into honoring the source,
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and honoring the source is building a chapel.
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I mean, that’s what people have done to honor the source
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since the beginning of time.
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And I’m so glad they have, because I love sacred spaces,
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and I love to go to them, especially beautiful ones made by the most incredible artists of of time. And I’m so glad they have because I love sacred spaces and I love to go to them. Especially
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beautiful ones made by the most incredible
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artists of the time.
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And craftsmen.
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A community.
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Like us.
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Like Jalman Hur. Jalman Hur is a wonderful
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book. They’re an incredible community.
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They’re a note in our network.
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They’re in total notes. We made a book about them.
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So check it out. Anyway, I love you. I love you so much. Everybody come and let’s hug a lot. First of all, I would like to honor each and every one of you
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for your presence, for your energy that you’ve brought here
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to make this incredible collective visionary dream manifest reality.
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This is my first time at Burning Man, and so I’m not a virgin anymore.
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And it’s been this unbelievable experience for me.
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There’s nothing that can prepare you for this,
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and I guess that goes for the visionary experience as well.
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I came here with an open mind and I had no idea how much love I would be receiving over the course
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of these days and it’s been, oh, I don’t know, it’s just, I can’t separate myself from our youth
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because people just keep streaming in and just bring so much to us and
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this is what makes it all worthwhile for me because when I create I created my own environment
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it’s it’s an it’s an experience that happens in isolation pretty much but when I come out and I’m able to share, then my work really becomes real, becomes alive, and I’m learning so much more about what I’ve been doing. I work very much through opening myself up. I guess that works for everyone here.
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I see myself as a tool more than a doer.
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Everything that happens, happens very automatic.
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It’s just I trust that whatever residue is there from my shamanic experiences will be residing inside of me
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until the perfect time is there
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for me to let these experiences
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and messages resurface.
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And they come back when the time is right,
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when the message is important
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to the community, to my community,
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to the community at large, and for myself.
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And having you come in into that space and basically explaining to me over and over again
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what it is that I do is so incredibly validating.
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So I really, really want to thank you for that.
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And this is such an incredible experiment, Burning Man. And I think, just to come back to the idea of the future of visionary art,
00:19:10 ►
I think this is the future of visionary art.
00:19:13 ►
Events such as these need to be happening all over the planet.
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And we are, I mean, it’s incredible to see 40,000 freaks in brackets
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being so incredibly beautiful.
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I mean, look at yourselves.
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Aren’t we a gorgeous community?
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It’s unbelievable.
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So 40,000 people in the desert
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creating this reality together.
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But at the same time, what I would
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like to really say is, how do we take this, this experience, this energy, this fusion,
00:19:56 ►
this union, this incredible symbiosis, how do we take this reality and how do we bring
00:20:02 ►
it into our worlds? I know so many of you
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out there are doing incredible stuff incredible work but it is so important
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to really pay attention to how we bridge this gap how do we take this that is
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potentially very frightening to a lot of people out there I mean let’s face it
00:20:20 ►
people are very very scared of who we are and what we represent. They’re scared
00:20:25 ►
of this openness. They’re scared of the visionary experience. And I’m not just talking substance.
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I’m talking about this energy. You know, being in touch with the divine as often as we can
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be is such a blessing to us. And we know how sacred this is and how incredibly nurturing and sheltering.
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But people out there, they’re just so scared, scared shitless.
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So we need to find ways to bring this Shangri-La to them.
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And Alex and Allison have created this beautiful space.
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Robert and I have been working conceptually on a space,
00:21:03 ►
on a very similar space in a different location.
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And so this is something that I would like to put out to all of you, just like Alison.
00:21:12 ►
I want to say, you know, make your own worlds and create your own spaces and create these
00:21:18 ►
shelters and introduce people in a beautiful, non-threatening way.
00:21:27 ►
people in a beautiful, non-threatening way. I think another important point is, I mean,
00:21:33 ►
I’m always so amazed at how insecure people are about their own creativity. I’m so amazed at how many people come to me and they say, you know, I’m really, I don’t know how to
00:21:39 ►
do anything. I’ve never created or I’m not there or and to to bring this the security to that to
00:21:48 ►
to everybody who comes to the workshop and allowing people to understand that
00:21:53 ►
we are the co-creators and we are so powerful and this is this needs to be
00:21:59 ►
done with love everybody needs to know that they can create we can and this is once again
00:22:05 ►
this is such an incredible example for what is really possible and so I would
00:22:12 ►
like to stress that this is something I need to say be creative in your lives
00:22:16 ►
and open yourself up don’t say this is not possible everything is possible
00:22:21 ►
everything is possible this the potential is there, and as soon as we allow,
00:22:26 ►
as soon as we open that portal
00:22:27 ►
and admit that the potential is endless, limitless,
00:22:33 ►
it is possible, and we can just go wherever we want to go.
00:22:37 ►
So this is another very important point that I wanted to stress.
00:22:41 ►
So let’s bridge this gap.
00:22:42 ►
Let’s introduce the communities out there.
00:22:45 ►
Let’s turn on our communities out there and allow them to become co-creators and let’s
00:22:50 ►
allow them to be empowered by creativity. And another thing that is also interesting,
00:22:57 ►
if we look at the, I think the western world has been ailing from a lack of tribal community.
00:23:08 ►
This is the fundamental disease that we have in the Western world.
00:23:13 ►
So the tribal community, the tribal cultures have never been able to eradicate it,
00:23:21 ►
to be eradicated, thank God.
00:23:24 ►
They just went underground.
00:23:28 ►
And it’s interesting to see how the visionaries throughout the ages have really carried the torch
00:23:30 ►
and they have been the ones who have just carried
00:23:33 ►
the sacred knowledge and against the odds
00:23:36 ►
have worked in the shadows.
00:23:38 ►
But it can never be stamped out
00:23:40 ►
because the source is infinite and it lives always.
00:23:46 ►
And so here we are.
00:23:51 ►
But it’s important to remember that, that we are the visionaries that bring this.
00:23:56 ►
And we are the mystery keepers.
00:24:01 ►
So I really encourage everybody to do the good work out there.
00:24:06 ►
And something that is really very powerful at the heart of my work
00:24:08 ►
is the sacred feminine.
00:24:10 ►
And I see, this goes to
00:24:12 ►
the sisters, there’s a lot of women out
00:24:14 ►
there who are so amazingly creative
00:24:16 ►
and I know women, we are
00:24:18 ►
the mothers, the nurturers, and
00:24:20 ►
so many times all of our energy
00:24:22 ►
goes into making the families
00:24:24 ►
creating these beautiful beings that will be the future of our planet.
00:24:29 ►
But at the same time, we have reached a different place on this planet
00:24:33 ►
where the feminine voice needs to be made more visible.
00:24:37 ►
We need to go out.
00:24:50 ►
And I’ve talked about this to many people because I’ve painted things like the goddess triangle
00:24:53 ►
to honor the co-creative abilities of women,
00:24:57 ►
and this is my sacred, my altar to the feminine,
00:25:00 ►
and I pay deep respect.
00:25:02 ►
And women especially ask me,
00:25:04 ►
have you had children?
00:25:05 ►
And I raised Robert’s daughter, so I’ve been a mother.
00:25:08 ►
But I conscientiously decided not to have a child
00:25:11 ►
because I realized that all my energy would go into this child
00:25:16 ►
to a point where I would not have been able to create the work I have created.
00:25:22 ►
And so I see, and so I want to honor all of you sisters out there
00:25:27 ►
who are taking this path,
00:25:29 ►
and it’s a very difficult decision to make,
00:25:32 ►
but I want to encourage you,
00:25:34 ►
if this is your calling, then go with it,
00:25:36 ►
and luckily we don’t have the pressure anymore
00:25:38 ►
to be solely identified through motherhood as women.
00:25:42 ►
So this is just another path,
00:25:44 ►
and here we are, and we have options.
00:25:47 ►
Thank you.
00:25:54 ►
That’s pretty much what I have to say,
00:25:56 ►
and I think we’ll have a big group discussion afterwards,
00:26:00 ►
and I just really invite you to come out and share with us what your ideas are.
00:26:04 ►
So here’s Robert.
00:26:06 ►
I’m sorry.
00:26:09 ►
We do them in different places, in different countries,
00:26:13 ►
so if you would like to let us know about your contact in our year,
00:26:17 ►
you can give us your e-mail address and we’ll just put you on the mailing list.
00:26:21 ►
I know this shouldn’t be a place for plugging events,
00:26:24 ►
but just let us know and we’d love to have you thank you
00:26:37 ►
that’s a tough act to follow I’ll tell you how did I become the cleanup here
00:26:42 ►
to do anyway I just want to say first, that I’ve been to a number of these events all over the world,
00:26:49 ►
and I can honestly and truly say that…
00:26:53 ►
Roberto, if you move to the middle just a little bit more, I think…
00:26:56 ►
This way here?
00:26:56 ►
Yeah, I think that should do it.
00:26:58 ►
How’s this, okay?
00:26:59 ►
Perfect.
00:27:00 ►
That I have never been in the company of such a collection of higher selves like yourselves.
00:27:07 ►
You’re incredible, beautiful, full of love life, and I just love to be in that yurt, sucking it all in, absorbing it.
00:27:15 ►
Thank you very much, and thank you for having us.
00:27:21 ►
Okay, it’s about visionary art, but if you walk out that door, you walk into surrealism,
00:27:27 ►
absolute surrealism.
00:27:28 ►
Dolly would have loved Burning Man.
00:27:31 ►
He would have, well, you could have called it Dollywood or something like that.
00:27:38 ►
Anyway, visionary art.
00:27:40 ►
Well, I mean, visionary art has always been with us and most probably always be with us.
00:27:47 ►
You’re starting with the cave paintings and the aboriginal dreamtime paintings, hieroglyphs, petroglyphs,
00:27:54 ►
going on up to a great grandfather of visionary art, Hermannus Bosch.
00:27:59 ►
Then you move up to William Blake, pre-Raphaelites, who their visions were beauty,
00:28:05 ►
mythology,
00:28:06 ►
and they did it with incredible hand.
00:28:10 ►
Coming up to Dada,
00:28:13 ►
which tried to radicalize the mind through art
00:28:16 ►
because of the World War I,
00:28:18 ►
trying to bring people back to some level,
00:28:20 ►
even if it was insanity.
00:28:22 ►
And then you had Surrealism, which was a fantastic movement,
00:28:27 ►
and certainly Salvador Dali was on the forefront of that.
00:28:31 ►
Can you hear me? Is it me or the mic? I don’t know.
00:28:36 ►
Roll up the treble! Speak louder!
00:28:38 ►
Okay, how’s this? I’m sorry. so we were at
00:28:45 ►
Surrealism and then we come up to
00:28:47 ►
After the War then you had
00:28:49 ►
the Fantastic Realists in Vienna
00:28:51 ►
that was a school that started there
00:28:54 ►
and they also tried to work out
00:28:56 ►
the pain, anguish of war
00:28:57 ►
but doing it in a very incredible
00:28:59 ►
visionary way
00:29:00 ►
and they were a tremendous inspiration
00:29:03 ►
to me personally and to many other artists and then then you had the psychedelic artist comes in coming in in
00:29:10 ►
the 60s and that was a tremendous movement you know artists like Monty
00:29:15 ►
Clauwine Isaac Abrams and yeah so now you have today and you look around you
00:29:22 ►
and see that this is buring, fantastic group of young visionary artists.
00:29:28 ►
So my hope for the future is limitless.
00:29:31 ►
So, you know, we’re surrounded by all this visionary art.
00:29:36 ►
And I’d like to take that a step further, and you can battle me on this, but if you think of what is surrounding you,
00:29:47 ►
on this, but if you think of what is surrounding you, this dome, that truss, your shirt, your shoes, you have the iron at home, you have the pyramids, everything and anything that
00:29:54 ►
is not nature made has been made by a visionary. First it was a thought, then a design, and
00:30:02 ►
then made manifest. That was the visionary, that was the artist who’s done that.
00:30:06 ►
Your life surrounding you is because of visionary art and artists.
00:30:12 ►
And cultures were created because of visionary art.
00:30:16 ►
And so that’s why my hope for the future is such.
00:30:21 ►
And, I mean, visionary art to me is a form of a roadmap that leads our higher
00:30:32 ►
selves to the source and center of the great unknowable and we all relate to
00:30:41 ►
anything anyone who is following that path we We see it in New York all the time, and we hear it,
00:30:46 ►
we get these incredible comments coming back and feedback,
00:30:50 ►
and we see that people are just starved for this expansion of their consciousness.
00:30:56 ►
And it’s such a pleasure to discuss the art and beyond with them.
00:31:02 ►
And all of those of you who have come in,
00:31:04 ►
I want to thank you very much for opening up my mind.
00:31:07 ►
And I’m going to leave the man with a lot of new inspirations,
00:31:12 ►
a lot of new love, a lot of tremendous amount of new friends.
00:31:16 ►
And we invite you to keep coming.
00:31:19 ►
It’s okay.
00:31:20 ►
And bless your souls, all of you.
00:31:23 ►
Love you.
00:31:23 ►
Thank you. Love you. Thank you.
00:31:38 ►
Well, let’s see.
00:31:43 ►
Were some questions raised during our kind of discussions that would bear further discussion for a few moments?
00:31:53 ►
Or should we just turn to questions from the audience?
00:31:58 ►
We love you!
00:32:00 ►
We love you.
00:32:01 ►
We are grateful.
00:32:03 ►
Do you have any questions?
00:32:04 ►
Yeah. We love you guys, are grateful. Do you have any questions? Yeah. We love you guys too.
00:32:07 ►
Okay.
00:32:08 ►
Hey, yeah.
00:32:09 ►
All right.
00:32:11 ►
There’s one right here.
00:32:14 ►
Martina had mentioned her shamanic visions,
00:32:17 ►
and I was just wondering how anyone on the panel feels
00:32:23 ►
about how visionary art can be used in a healing modality,
00:32:27 ►
much like shamans would go and find visions on their journeys
00:32:32 ►
and come back with healing for the tribe.
00:32:34 ►
How can we as visionary artists go ahead and do that for our tribe?
00:32:41 ►
I think that’s exactly what’s happening with it.
00:32:44 ►
I think that’s exactly what’s happening with it.
00:32:52 ►
Just because there is a similar kind of journeying that goes on,
00:32:57 ►
taking the entheogen, visiting these other dimensions,
00:33:11 ►
coming back and giving a shot at trying to fix a facsimile of these multidimensional experiences into a two-dimensional plane as a painter.
00:33:21 ►
What’s shocking to me is that people recognize it at all, given the distance from the actual download. download but nevertheless I think that
00:33:26 ►
the discovery
00:33:29 ►
of these new icons
00:33:32 ►
and the sharing
00:33:35 ►
of them furthers the
00:33:38 ►
visionary meme
00:33:39 ►
and it’s a
00:33:43 ►
it is a shamanic kind of that parallels that in some way.
00:33:54 ►
The healing that goes on in the community,
00:33:56 ►
we want to find new ways to realign ourselves
00:34:00 ►
with this creative and centering energy
00:34:04 ►
or self-discovering kind of energy.
00:34:09 ►
I mean, we created the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors as a kind of journey to wholeness and to, you know,
00:34:16 ►
conscience as well as consciousness. And so there are ways that you can display your work in a kind of journey or think of your work in that way.
00:34:28 ►
And the mystery with art is that it is an alchemical process,
00:34:35 ►
that the darker and scarier elements may at one time appear evil and bad and at other times we may see them as essential
00:34:46 ►
to self-discovery in some way
00:34:50 ►
and learning lessons.
00:34:51 ►
So you integrate all these various kinds of
00:34:55 ►
circuitous paths that we have to go
00:34:58 ►
and by affirming the higher possibility
00:35:01 ►
that we continually have
00:35:03 ►
in your tattoo work, in your, you know,
00:35:08 ►
in whatever way the websites you build and things like that, there’s ways of continuing
00:35:15 ►
to evolve the collective vision, I think, as any artist or any creative person, even
00:35:22 ►
a conversation or a look or what you wear can be a creative decision you know so as as is demonstrated you know so anyway
00:35:32 ►
I’ve said enough yeah I think you were referring to I just wanted to address
00:35:39 ►
the question really directly you were talking about do I understand it
00:35:43 ►
correctly when you said how can we use these images or the information
00:35:48 ►
and how can we bring the images back and use them directly for healing?
00:35:52 ►
Okay, I got it. Okay, so what I found is that
00:35:55 ►
in my work, when I do bring back a vision
00:36:00 ►
I find that, well,
00:36:04 ►
it is direct energy manifested by anchoring it down in the visual form.
00:36:11 ►
I find that it really comes to live here.
00:36:15 ►
And I’ve noticed that sometimes in my portrait work,
00:36:22 ►
there’s some interesting thing that happens where I’m getting a lot of information about the person, more if I know them, but even if I don’t know them very well I will channel a lot of subtleties.
00:36:44 ►
how could you possibly know about, how could you possibly know this about me?
00:36:45 ►
And I would say, well, I really don’t.
00:36:48 ►
I just, you know, it just manifested itself.
00:36:58 ►
So discovering this tool, I started to intentionally put certain things into my paintings that would help somebody heal or, yeah, help their journey of healing.
00:37:07 ►
And your question reminded me a little bit also about the Shipibo Indians
00:37:12 ►
and their beautiful pattern work.
00:37:15 ►
Well, they do it very actively.
00:37:18 ►
We all have a pattern, and I think it’s beautiful to really look into that
00:37:23 ►
and see what are our patterns.
00:37:29 ►
Discover your own visual patterns and work with them because I think that’s really, really healing.
00:37:37 ►
And keep those patterns intact, just the way the Shipibo sing the patterns alive and whole.
00:37:39 ►
And I think we can do that with art. So, yeah.
00:37:55 ►
What she said plus I’d like to make you understand that being a painter is a very solitary activities just you and the canvas so you know to come out and to gather all this nourishment from you all. It’s very healing for us.
00:38:06 ►
But in that act of painting, it’s also a tremendous act of meditation.
00:38:12 ►
You lose yourself completely when you’re painting. It’s just you and that candor. It’s a lovemaking act.
00:38:20 ►
I’ve seen my brush move by itself at times.
00:38:24 ►
In that meditation, there’s a power that enters through some other force, higher force
00:38:31 ►
I’m sure.
00:38:32 ►
It goes into my system and it goes onto that canvas.
00:38:36 ►
And that power and that love and dedication is reflected into and onto the observer. And I’ve had many experiences
00:38:46 ►
where people have reacted
00:38:48 ►
very physically to the artwork.
00:38:52 ►
I’ve even seen a few miracles
00:38:53 ►
based on somebody having a work of art
00:38:56 ►
and throwing away a crutch or two.
00:38:59 ►
Believe it or not, it’s true.
00:39:01 ►
So it’s that energy that we gather as artists.
00:39:04 ►
We’re sort of energy forces, conductors of energy, it’s that energy that we gather as artists. We’re sort of energy
00:39:05 ►
forces, conductors of energy, let’s put it that way, channelers. And it’s very important
00:39:13 ►
that we know our trade very well, our technique, we have to know our tools very well, and then
00:39:18 ►
the love goes into that, and that healing element. So many cases people look at art,
00:39:24 ►
they don’t see it, but in many cases people look at art, they don’t see it.
00:39:25 ►
But in many cases, people look at art,
00:39:28 ►
especially visionary art I’m talking about,
00:39:30 ►
and it affects them.
00:39:31 ►
I’ve seen people walk in that yurt
00:39:33 ►
and start crying immediately.
00:39:35 ►
Why?
00:39:36 ►
It’s hitting…
00:39:37 ►
Art is an emotional experience.
00:39:39 ►
You cannot intellectualize it.
00:39:40 ►
Don’t let anybody tell you you can’t.
00:39:42 ►
It hits you in your solar plexus
00:39:44 ►
and runs through your whole system, electrifies you,
00:39:47 ►
and that’s where the healing starts.
00:39:57 ►
I’d like to take another question.
00:39:59 ►
I was wondering specifically if you could discuss Selvic devices and how to find out information, where the information sources are on those devices.
00:40:10 ►
I know they’re spiritual, but I’d also like to elaborate on them.
00:40:14 ►
You want to elaborate?
00:40:15 ►
No, I’d like you to elaborate. The panel, yeah, all of you.
00:40:21 ►
Well, what I know about Selvic devices are that the Damanhurian people make them.
00:40:27 ►
I mean, you probably know more about it than I do, and I went there, but they make these
00:40:34 ►
devices and jewelry and rooms of these sort of strange sculptures that draw energy.
00:40:45 ►
I think you could talk about it better.
00:40:46 ►
So here, I’m going to like interview.
00:40:48 ►
This is part of the central, this is their energy.
00:40:52 ►
This is what they call energy.
00:40:54 ►
People have been calling it prana.
00:40:55 ►
People call it whatever.
00:40:57 ►
There’s lots of, every culture has a different name for energy.
00:41:00 ►
You know, different scientists call it, you know, whatever.
00:41:06 ►
What was William Reich’s word for it? Orgo, right, orgo. So anyway, here’s a picture of one. Selfic devices.
00:41:15 ►
They have a selfic room here. Well, I think they were sort of purposefully ambiguous about it when I asked them.
00:41:33 ►
And from what I gather, the Damanhurians consider the Selphika perhaps a living but interdimensional kind of entity
00:41:41 ►
that is somehow in contact with them.
00:41:45 ►
And they built this temple, I believe,
00:41:48 ►
to, I don’t know, house the Selphika in some way.
00:41:54 ►
And the jewelry and the other sculptures
00:41:57 ►
and things like that are kind of emanations
00:41:59 ►
from that point of contact.
00:42:02 ►
And so they surrounded their entire temple with tons
00:42:07 ►
of copper wiring and so the Selphika tend to like copper wiring now I I can’t
00:42:16 ►
explain it I can’t vouch for it even but I did think it made some cool sculpture and jewelry.
00:42:26 ►
And we pictured it here.
00:42:28 ►
And I think that it’s something that is that borderline between bioenergy, bioenergetics, and mind machines and things like that.
00:42:43 ►
And so it’s a fascinating subject.
00:42:47 ►
And perhaps it has something to do with the future of visionary art,
00:42:51 ►
but I’m not sure.
00:42:54 ►
The question was,
00:42:55 ►
how do we bridge the gap between the visionary art world
00:43:00 ►
and the mainstream art world?
00:43:02 ►
And there was a huge gap.
00:43:09 ►
Well, yeah, how do we do this? I mean, how do we bring this appreciation that we all have for the experiences and the
00:43:18 ►
expressions in art? How do we introduce this appreciation to mainstream art world? How do we twist the
00:43:29 ►
minds of the collectors and name makers, the business makers, the Wall Street types who
00:43:39 ►
decide for us what we’re supposed to like and what has value and what doesn’t.
00:43:47 ►
So I don’t know how to answer that question
00:43:50 ►
because it’s obviously a wall that we’ve been running into
00:43:53 ►
for as long as we’ve been doing this,
00:43:55 ►
and I’m sure that everybody, every other artist in this room
00:43:58 ►
has had that same experience.
00:44:01 ►
So I guess just by doing what we do and maybe creating spaces well I mean the experience that
00:44:07 ►
I get is even in a in a setting that is very very different from this in a very mainstream setting
00:44:15 ►
I’ve shown my work in places where a woman comes up to the painting and looks at my card in the
00:44:22 ►
web and she says well wow she says what is this and i say well
00:44:26 ►
it’s something that has to do with uh journeying into the deeper dimensions and it’s about finding
00:44:32 ►
about finding out about your spirit and she says well can you explain this and what it how do you
00:44:37 ►
do it and how do you you know how do you get in touch with these states and so so I find that the art itself ignites a spark in in in
00:44:49 ►
many people maybe not everybody some people just go and come I’ve seen people
00:44:54 ►
come into to a space looking at the work and they turned around and said well
00:44:58 ►
this is really bad I had one person and only one person here came in and they
00:45:03 ►
still look to the door of the yurt
00:45:06 ►
and they said, well, this is pretty, this is sort of interesting, but a lot of it looks
00:45:12 ►
really evil. So that’s, you know, it’s probably not everybody’s cup of tea and it is frightening,
00:45:19 ►
but I think that just trying to get out there and doing, creating the spaces that Alex and
00:45:27 ►
Allison have created and allowing people the space to emerge themselves in this sanctuary
00:45:42 ►
is a good first step.
00:45:44 ►
We need so many more of these.
00:45:46 ►
Because the galleries, if you look at a very amazing gallery,
00:45:54 ►
I mean, the major galleries in New York, for example,
00:45:58 ►
they won’t touch this type of work.
00:46:00 ►
They won’t.
00:46:01 ►
It’s just, at least not now.
00:46:03 ►
But there’s hope. I mean, I’ve seen,
00:46:05 ►
we’ve all seen, there have been an incredible amount of exhibitions over the last few years.
00:46:13 ►
They’ve been that sort of go into the direction of visionary art. There’s been the surrealism
00:46:18 ►
shows at the Tate, at the Bourbon in Paris, at Tate London, the Bourbon in Paris in Germany,
00:46:25 ►
at the Metropolitan Museum.
00:46:28 ►
There were shows at the Guggenheim.
00:46:29 ►
There was another surrealism show.
00:46:31 ►
And so basically, I mean, there is something is happening.
00:46:36 ►
So I have hope.
00:46:38 ►
So I guess just keeping up the good work is the answer.
00:46:41 ►
I don’t know.
00:46:47 ►
good work is the answer i don’t know i think the um one of the things is i’ve noticed the psychedelicization of the contemporary art world for uh years you know it’s been
00:46:57 ►
probably creeping up on them for 10 years or so uh but and and in fact it’s never gone away, of course, when we look at Keith Haring and people
00:47:09 ►
who were completely mainstream were extremely psychedelic as well. So I think that we can
00:47:18 ►
look at Fred Tomaselli’s work and numerous other artists, Murakami. There’s quite a few artists, Marika Mori,
00:47:30 ►
who are very successful in a kind of, if not mainstream, at least pretty high class, in
00:47:37 ►
Fred’s case, completely top drawer museums and everything. And his work is extremely visionary,
00:47:45 ►
extremely psychedelic.
00:47:46 ►
He contains psychedelics
00:47:48 ►
embedded in the resin of his works.
00:47:52 ►
And he’s, you know,
00:47:55 ►
it’s not too secretive, you know,
00:47:59 ►
what it takes to be part of the contemporary art world.
00:48:03 ►
I mean, you’ve got to probably live in new york or
00:48:08 ►
los angeles uh and uh have you know friends you get friends who are artists and things like that
00:48:16 ►
and they introduce you to uh their galleries and stuff and you eventually if you resonate with it and the gallery owner resonates with your work then
00:48:27 ►
you may strike up a relationship and I do think that
00:48:32 ►
the the mind is up for grabs in contemporary art and I am a stand for
00:48:40 ►
this the visionary art meme and it’s important that we created
00:48:46 ►
the Microcosm Gallery to show it.
00:48:49 ►
And so we are a gallery in New York City
00:48:53 ►
that shows contemporary, sacred, visionary art,
00:49:00 ►
and we are interested in your work
00:49:02 ►
if you feel like your work resonates on that level.
00:49:05 ►
Okay.
00:49:07 ►
I want to say something to you about Microcosm Gallery, too,
00:49:10 ►
because, yes, there is a visionary art gallery in New York.
00:49:13 ►
It’s Microcosm Gallery.
00:49:14 ►
It’s the size of a postage stamp, okay?
00:49:17 ►
But we’ve shown some amazing people there.
00:49:20 ►
Some of them are here.
00:49:22 ►
And we’d like to show some other amazing people there.
00:49:24 ►
Some of them are here. And we’d like to show some other amazing people there. Some of them are over here. So there are people
00:49:27 ►
in our community who are showing there now. Absolutely, like right this minute
00:49:31 ►
we have a summer group show of people and most of them are here.
00:49:35 ►
Anyway, here’s my invitation to you.
00:49:39 ►
Put your art books into visionary art.
00:49:44 ►
Okay?
00:49:47 ►
We are a community that’s growing.
00:49:49 ►
It’s a pyramid scheme, you know?
00:49:50 ►
We’re growing.
00:49:54 ►
And some of us may have a few extra dollars left over.
00:49:57 ►
And we want to make things beautiful around the place.
00:50:00 ►
Spend it on visionary art.
00:50:03 ►
And definitely, definitely, I mean, it’s self-serving. Come to Microcosm Gallery.
00:50:09 ►
If you buy my visionary art, my gallery is going to grow and then I’m going to be able to show more artists there and we’ll have more
00:50:12 ►
visionary art in New York it’s a pyramid scheme let’s do it together you know
00:50:17 ►
let’s all show great visionary art in New York you know we’re growing that’s
00:50:22 ►
it I know well Walt Robert Williams has, along with his friends,
00:50:29 ►
started the Juxtapose magazine,
00:50:31 ►
and that is also another alternative visionary source.
00:50:35 ►
And we ourselves have this Cosm Journal,
00:50:39 ►
and this is the Entheo Arts issue.
00:50:43 ►
Bob and Martina are in this issue
00:50:45 ►
and a number of the artists that are here.
00:50:48 ►
And so we celebrate it and spread it around, you know.
00:50:52 ►
And it is definitely penetrating.
00:50:56 ►
This culture is so much more psychedelic.
00:50:59 ►
It knows what that means, you know.
00:51:01 ►
It’s been dosed.
00:51:03 ►
There’s no going back, you know. It’s been dosed. There’s no going back, you know. And so we just need
00:51:08 ►
to create, you know, being little fungi and popping up all over, you know, in whatever
00:51:14 ►
ways. Be mushrooming.
00:51:20 ►
I just want to throw my two cents in here. Yeah, there’s always been a great gap between the visionary art,
00:51:26 ►
which has always been marginalized, and the world of commerce.
00:51:30 ►
But the Internet is changing all that.
00:51:32 ►
You know, all these young artists I know, they’re all building their websites.
00:51:36 ►
They’re learning how to promote themselves and to get it out there.
00:51:41 ►
And as a result, I think this is going to change the world of commerce.
00:51:45 ►
Because they’re only interested in bottom line.
00:51:49 ►
So if they see that the artists out there are selling a bunch of stuff off their website,
00:51:54 ►
you can check all that today.
00:51:55 ►
It’s very simple.
00:51:57 ►
They’re going to start bending and leaning towards the visionary art.
00:52:02 ►
But it’s also a matter of consciousness.
00:52:04 ►
If you don’t have the consciousness to see it, it doesn’t exist
00:52:06 ►
so it’s a matter of
00:52:08 ►
elevating consciousness and that’s what
00:52:09 ►
we’re doing, you know, it’s sort of a
00:52:12 ►
subterfuge in a way
00:52:13 ►
but we have to elevate
00:52:16 ►
consciousness and not necessarily to
00:52:18 ►
psychedelics all the time
00:52:20 ►
you can do it in other
00:52:21 ►
magical ways
00:52:23 ►
so fast I must admit but anyway, so we’re getting
00:52:28 ►
there. We’re really getting there. I feel that. We’re going to have to stop here for today because
00:52:36 ►
I’m trying to keep these podcasts to about an hour each. But I am going to start working on
00:52:42 ►
the second half of this program tomorrow and should have have it out in the next day or so.
00:52:47 ►
Again, I’m sorry about the audio quality of my recording, but here’s one way to think about it.
00:52:52 ►
If you were in the big tent at Theon Village on the afternoon of this art panel,
00:52:58 ►
well then, what you just heard was pretty much the way it sounded to us in the tent that day.
00:53:03 ►
Because I made the recording by just turning on my cassette recorder where I was sitting.
00:53:08 ►
Had I actually succeeded in capturing the audio directly from the mixing board,
00:53:13 ►
you would, of course, have been able to hear these great visionary artists without straining so much,
00:53:19 ►
but then again, you would have missed a lot of the ambiance in the tent that day.
00:53:24 ►
So, I guess it’s always a trade-off of one kind or another. you would have missed a lot of the ambiance in the tent that day.
00:53:28 ►
So I guess it’s always a trade-off of one kind or another.
00:53:31 ►
But even if the sound quality wasn’t the best,
00:53:35 ►
what these interesting artists had to say was top-notch, don’t you think?
00:53:40 ►
I really liked what Alex had to say about one function of visionary art being to validate other people’s experiences.
00:53:44 ►
I know that on many occasions I’ve found myself and my friends
00:53:47 ►
pulling out a book of visionary art and saying,
00:53:50 ►
there, that’s what it was like for me.
00:53:54 ►
And in a way, it gives us a form of language
00:53:57 ►
to talk about our journeys into the other.
00:54:00 ►
And I think I mentioned this in an earlier podcast,
00:54:03 ►
how important I believe it is to follow Allison’s suggestion and create a sacred space in your own home to honor the source, the source of our creativity.
00:54:23 ►
was her advice to not underestimate your own creativity.
00:54:29 ►
And I believe she’s right in saying that our potential is limitless,
00:54:35 ►
particularly if, as she suggested, we allow one another to become co-creators as well.
00:54:42 ►
And didn’t you love Roberto’s remark that Salvador Dali would have loved Burning Man?
00:54:45 ►
I’d never thought about that before, but I’m sure he’s right.
00:54:59 ►
Also, since I’m not a visual artist myself, it was really interesting for me to hear Roberto’s description of the act of painting as an act of meditation and an act of love, in which the artist can actually channel energy coming from higher forces.
00:55:03 ►
the artist can actually channel energy coming from higher forces.
00:55:09 ►
Hearing that description of their work, their way they work,
00:55:13 ►
has actually added an entirely new dimension to the way I view their art now,
00:55:15 ►
and I’m sure it will for you as well.
00:55:22 ►
And, well, there’s about another hour of question and answer on the rest of the tape,
00:55:28 ►
so I’ll sign off for now and get to work on the second part of this Planque Norte discussion at the 2006 Burning Man Festival. My thanks again go out
00:55:32 ►
to Darren, Mark, Michael, Brian, and the rest of the Entheon crew
00:55:36 ►
and supporters. And also thanks to Chateau Hayuk for
00:55:40 ►
the use of your music here in the Psychedelic Salon.
00:55:43 ►
And now I’d like to leave you to think about an interesting comment
00:55:48 ►
that Alex Gray made near the end of this program
00:55:51 ►
when he was talking about the fact that our culture already knows what psychedelic means.
00:55:57 ►
And then he said, speaking again about our culture,
00:56:01 ►
he said, it’s been dosed. There’s no going back.
00:56:07 ►
And if you’ve ever been dosed, you know there’s no going back.
00:56:10 ►
When you think about it, you know he’s right.
00:56:14 ►
So hang on to your magic carpets,
00:56:16 ►
because it looks like our ride is about to get even more interesting.
00:56:20 ►
For now, this is Lorenzo, signing off from Cyberdelic Space.
00:56:26 ►
Be well, my friends.