458 - Practical Mushroom Activism

Program Notes

We were saddened to learn that Kai left this life
on February 6th, 2016 due to complications from a fast.
She was on the 37th day of a 40 day fast.
Guest speakers: Kai Wingo & Shonagh Home

A mushroom expert, Kai Wingo’s passion is highlighting the value of mushroom cultivation in the revitalizing of community. She is a mother, mycologist and lecturer on a quest to inspire reverence for earth’s exploratory treasures and in the utilization of their technology and curative abilities. Kai feels that if we, women especially, learn to embrace fungi as our allies, they will heal, empower and transform. In today’s program, Kai is interviewed by the salon’s resident correspondent, Shonagh Home.

[The following quotations are by Kai Wingo.]

“When you use entheogens you truly change minds, and that is what will truly make a change.”

“If you have the understanding that we are spiritual beings, the things that we do are spiritual. If we do it every morning, then it becomes ritual.”

You can find Kai and her grass roots effort, Kultured Mushrooms, on Facebook.
Women and Entheogens2015 ConferenceSeptember 18-20, 2015
Shonagh Home is a teacher, shamanic practitioner, and the author of
‘Ix Chel Wisdom: 7 Teachings from the Mayan Sacred Feminine,’

‘Love and Spirit Medicine’

and the upcoming, ‘Honeybee Wisdom: A Modern Melissae Speaks.’

Website: www.shonaghhome.com

Contact: shonagh.home (at) comcast (dot) net

Transcript

00:00:00 ►

Greetings from cyberdelic space.

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This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.

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As you no doubt know,

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the word psychedelic means mind manifesting. Of course, there are differing definitions of mind

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and then what does it mean to manifest mind? So just for the record, here’s how I see it,

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at least at this moment, as I always allow myself the privilege of changing my so-called mind whenever I choose.

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So, to me, when I think of the psychedelic salon, what I see is a place where the deep mind of our

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species is made visible through the words and actions of one or more humans. We have certainly

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had our share of Terence McKenna’s mind made manifest here.

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And by the way, I still have more of his tapes yet to digitize and play for you in the coming

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months. Now, if you’ve been with us here in the salon for a while, you’ve heard McKenna and

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others say that we have now begun a psychedelic renaissance. Now, the definition of a Renaissance with a capital R is the activity, spirit, or time

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of the great revival of art, literature, and learning in Europe beginning in the 14th century

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and extending to the 17th century, marking the transition from medieval to the modern world.

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So are we actually at the beginning of a new renaissance, a psychedelic one?

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Well, just take a look at some of the people that we’ve featured here in the salon

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over the past 12 months.

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Rakrazam, Mikey Siegel, Annie Oak, Irina Alexander, Ginny Rutherford,

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Shona Holm, Bernardo Kastrup, Lelorian, Mariana Dinkova, Kathleen Wirt,

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Galila Espinoza, Marion Goodall, John Gilmore, Marina Korshikova, Katie Tomlinson, Rachel Hope,

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Diana Reed Slattery, Niles Heckman, Lily K. Ross, Nishay Devmer, Rick Doblin, and Daniel Pinchbeck.

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Granted, there was a lot of Terrence McKenna mixed in, but almost all of those other names, except for the last few,

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are actually new lights on the psychedelic horizon.

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And I haven’t even mentioned people like Ashley Booth,

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who are organizing salons, workshops, festivals, and other events throughout the world.

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And think about this for a moment.

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These people represent only the tiniest tip of the psychedelic renaissance

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that has taken hold of the planet.

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25 years ago, I couldn’t even find someone with whom to talk about ayahuasca,

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and today there are ayahuasca ceremonies taking place every weekend on every continent.

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For sure, something is happening here.

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Now, getting to today’s program, if ever there was or is a person who personifies what it means to be a psychedelic thinker, it’s today’s guest, Kai Wingo, who is interviewed by our resident guest respondent, Shauna Holm.

00:03:36 ►

From now on out, if anyone asks me what these podcasts are about, here’s what I’m going to say.

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are about, here’s what I’m going to say. The Psychedelic Salon is a place where people can talk about ways in which they’ve learned to, well, to see the world through their own unfiltered eyes.

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While the most frequently featured speaker in the series is Terrence McKenna, today most of

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the important talks are being given by people who are in the forefront of the worldwide psychedelic

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renaissance. If you only have time to listen

00:04:05 ►

to one of my podcasts, I recommend listening to number 458, Practical Mushroom Activism

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with Kai Wingo. It says more about psychedelic thinking and acting than I ever can. So what

00:04:20 ►

do you say? Let’s give it a listen right now. Welcome, everyone.

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Today, I am very excited to have a conversation with a really amazing lady who contacted me recently to speak at her conference.

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And her name is Kai Wingo, and she’s a mushroom lady.

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And so I’m going to read you her bio, and then we will launch into conversation here.

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A mushroom expert, Kai’s passion is highlighting the value of mushroom cultivation in the revitalizing of community.

00:05:05 ►

and lecturer on a quest to inspire reverence for Earth’s exploratory treasures and in the utilization of their technology and curative abilities,

00:05:11 ►

Kai feels that if we women, if we women especially,

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learn to embrace fungi as our allies, they will heal, empower, and transform.

00:05:22 ►

A teacher by trade for over 20 years,

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her aim was to bridge cultural gaps for

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students and often with international artists going as far as Senegal, West Africa to study

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African drum and dance. The former years of her career were at the Office of Safe and Drug-Free

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Schools writing culturally relevant curriculum for inner-city youth. After the office was laid off and encouraged to reapply,

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she instead initiated a gourmet mushroom enterprise from home.

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This year, 2015, will be her second year running a peer-taught youth agricultural program

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on her own urban farm.

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Kai lives in Ohio, where she owns and operates Cleveland’s first and only mushroom farm

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since the inaugural year in 2013.

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With topics like survival, off-the-grid living, cob building, and of course, mushroom cultivation,

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she has been making lectures and hands-on workshops available in historically underserved neighborhoods since 2009.

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You can find Kai and her grassroots effort, Cultured with a K, Mushrooms, on Facebook.

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and her grassroots effort, Cultured with a K Mushrooms, on Facebook.

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Now, Kai is also going to be hosting an amazing conference on entheogens this fall.

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And so, Kai, we’re going to talk about that first.

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So, welcome.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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I’m so excited.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, me too. And so, I want to begin with hearing about this or having you tell everyone about this conference you’re putting on

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because this is another women’s conference.

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And we have, of course, the Women’s Visionary Congress, which was started by Annie Oak, I think, nine years ago at this point.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, and I know you just recently attended that.

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And so you are pioneering a new one.

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So let’s hear all about that.

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Well, this one will be in the Midwest, which is epic in itself to me.

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Because usually you hear about things like that going on on the West Coast and in New York.

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I just now found out about the Women’s Visionary Congress,

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but I did hear of other conferences in other parts of the world, South Africa, Australia,

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but nothing here close to home.

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nothing here close to home so i’m very excited to bring it here to into my community where i think it will help many people and and change lives so i’m very excited to to introduce to them uh this

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this this movement uh for the first time in cleveland ohio and what’s the website for the first time in Cleveland, Ohio. And what’s the website for the conference so everyone knows?

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Sure.

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It’s womenandentheogens.wix.com forward slash conference 2015.

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Okay.

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And this is all women speakers at your conference?

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Or are you going to have some guys?

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Well, we want to highlight the women,

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and so I am asking that the speakers all be presenters, I mean women presenters.

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And I’m hoping that everyone comes out to support and learn and share with us.

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But I would like to see more women involved and take a greater stand.

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We have some, and then we have some that are very shy and not quite as confident

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that this is something that is helpful for us.

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And I feel like if we as women get that message and know that these teachers are here for us, that we can then spread the message to our families, to our children, to our husbands and the rest of our families. We have some really great women who have joined in,

00:09:27 ►

and I believe we might have some entertainment and some other things from the men as well who are coming.

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Onyx Ashanti has accepted our invitation, so I’m excited about him

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and his 3-D printed music system called Beat Jazz.

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And, you know, we might invite some drummers, some poets, you know,

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others to involve themselves, but the women are presenting on entheogens

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or women’s issues in that case at this conference, yes.

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Okay, so what are you featuring in terms of women speakers?

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Just because I know you are seeking more speakers, right?

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So do you want artists, activists, teachers, what?

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Healers, female shamanism.

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I spoke with someone who says she’s so sure that she has alien DNA.

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And, I mean, these things are just so needed

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for us to start thinking outside of the

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box of all the possibilities

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and all the

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areas we need to explore

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so yeah

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women who are

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who want to share information

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other women

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or anything entheogenic, of course,

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and that includes DMT, LSD, MDMA, magic mushrooms, of course, cannabis.

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I know a lot of women who know about edibles are starting to come out and share that information.

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How to grow, you know, cultivation, all those things are important and would fit into our theme.

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Okay, cool.

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And then you were saying earlier, Sue, you think it’s really important to spread the message.

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And so what are you thinking of with regard to the message?

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What’s the message?

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The message is we’re here and we’re waiting for you.

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We’re here to help.

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We are some of the best allies you can have with some of the biggest issues

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that we are challenged with today.

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I feel that it seems there is no problem that we cannot solve with the use of nature’s gifts.

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It’s like in mushrooms.

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that the mushrooms and mycelium can give us through their use or just by mimicking their role in nature.

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And sometimes that message passes us by because we’re so busy working

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and trying to get the kids off to school

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and just caught up in the daily routine of life.

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And so sometimes, you know, at some point I thought that I had a connection,

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but until I really delved in, I didn’t know how much I was missing.

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So I just think that is there. We’re just

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not equipped to hear it. So the message is there, but we have to be given the tools so

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that we can hear it clearly.

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Okay. And so clearly, I mean, you’re a mycologist and I’m suspecting that we have a mutual love and regard for the psilocybin mushroom.

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And so is that the main entheogen that you work with?

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Yes, that is the main entheogen.

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And that’s what got me started on this path.

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I feel like I was called to it.

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So, yeah, the mushrooms is kind of what caught me as a very interesting story of me being on a spiritual journey,

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a path to find my way in life.

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And it just so happens that the mushrooms, I guess, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And that’s exactly what happened. The mushrooms, I guess when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

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And that’s exactly what happened.

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The mushrooms were there.

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In my community, in my realm of friends, there wasn’t a lot of information or knowledge about mushrooms or entheogenic mushrooms.

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But they happened to just pop up overnight for me and and i can start uh

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so far back with that story but i guess i’ll just start um somewhere in the middle where

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i heard from a metaphysicist that i i used to like to listen to in my journey of trying to find

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a spiritual path for myself.

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And I heard a cute little folklore about Buckeyes and how if you keep them in your pocket that

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you’ll be sure to keep money in your pocket as well.

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And that just sounded like such an interesting journey for

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myself because that’s what I was into. I was into seeing for myself where I can go and listening

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and getting used to listening to that inner voice. And so, and to me, that spoke to me because

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as a child, I remember this being the Buckeye State, I would find plenty of

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Buckeyes just lying around and we would collect them and we would, you know, make jewelry

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out of them or whatever.

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But at that time, I didn’t remember seeing one in so long that I said, there must be

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something to this.

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So I went out into wherever I thought the buckeye trees would be.

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I’d ask lots of questions.

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And somehow it led me to a mushroom farm because someone said,

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the mushroom man at the farmer’s market is the one who you want to talk to.

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And when I talked to him, he said he did have buckeyes,

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lots of buckeyes on his farm.

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And he invited me out to check it out because, first of all, I didn’t know how to recognize a Buckeye tree

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when I saw one.

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So it would have to be a special time of year when the Buckeyes were on the ground in order

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for me to recognize it.

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And because, you know, of that limited time, I thought it would make sense for me to at

00:16:04 ►

least recognize the Buckeye tree.

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So I go to a mushroom farm when he invited me, and all these mushrooms are there.

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Now I’m asking myself spiritually, how did I get here to a mushroom farm?

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That’s when my father, who was also on a tour, because I was so excited about this mushroom farm.

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It sounds different.

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I would never think my spiritual journey would lead me to.

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Can I ask just real quick, how old were you?

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This was in 2008, so not that time I had three children. I invited them all. My brother came out with his parents, my stepmom and my father.

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And my father, at the end of the tour, you know, we heard so much information about mushrooms.

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And they thought it was just a quaint little cute thing.

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They were from New York.

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And he was just so, you know, so just authentically country and talking about all these mushrooms and so into it.

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So he just decides to ask, well, what about the psychedelic mushrooms?

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And the whole tour just cracked up laughing because it just broke.

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It just it just changed the direction.

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But his answer was that that you don’t want to get caught with them,

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but there were studies showing that the same parts of the brain that lights up

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when people were taking these mushrooms were the same parts of the brain as

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people in church or in a spiritual setting.

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And so for him to ask that question when I’m asking myself,

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how did I get here, I knew that was a sign of something spiritual,

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something that I needed to put in the back of my mind.

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And lo and behold, the next week, my co-worker invites me to a mushroom lecture where um kalindi ee who we who we who we’ve talked about who you met at

00:18:10 ►

the last conference um he gave a lecture and and he showed the connection between mushrooms and

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civilization mushrooms and culture mushrooms and our ancestors ancestors. And it just blew me away that all this information,

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this deep, rich culture of mushrooms and people was there all the time,

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and I never knew it.

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So I just decided to go in and keep studying.

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I went back to the mushroom guy, and I said, hey, you know,

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I really found out some cool information after I left the tour.

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I went to a lecture and he just, he saw my passion.

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He saw that I was excited and he said, you know, you should grow those.

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You should totally grow mushrooms.

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And, you know, and he suggested a book by paul stamets that i should get if you know

00:19:07 ►

if anybody wants to start a mushroom farm this is the bible of of mushroom cultivation and so

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it just so happens the next year how things move so fast that instead of coming with more

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information about the book and things i came i and I showed him a picture of me and

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Paul Samet standing there.

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He had come to the Mushroom Festival in Telluride and met him and it was awesome.

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Things just really had signs of such promise, especially when I learned that there were no growers in my area

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and definitely not any female growers

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and not any black people.

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Even at the markets,

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they would not even recognize the gourmet mushrooms that I grew.

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So I just really saw an opportunity, and it just so happens, like my bio says,

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the district lost the grant money for the safe and drug-free schools,

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and it was time to move on for me.

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So it just all fell into place.

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And that’s how I got into the entheogens, the mushrooms.

00:20:29 ►

Right.

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So you’re growing, obviously, the medicinal mushrooms that you can legally sell.

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And then we, of course, will not go into the growing of the other kinds of mushrooms.

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Assume you find those growing here and there.

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assume you find those growing here and there.

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And so that was your first experience back in 2008 with the entheogenic mushrooms as well?

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Yeah, the lecture was the first experience.

00:21:02 ►

And what I did was right away I went back to a group study, a book study that I had joined previously.

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Like I said, I was searching and looking for a path.

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And this group studied Kemet, you know, so they wanted to know all things Kemet,

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all things about Egypt.

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And I just told them about a wonderful lecture I had seen and thought that they would really be interested.

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And so they put everything together,

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and we actually had a mushroom lecture as well as a workshop.

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And so as a group, we learned how to grow the mushrooms.

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But, of course, like you said, because of the legal ramifications, yeah, the legal ramifications, basically, yeah, all I could grow was the gourmet mushrooms,

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and that taught me, of course, because once you learn how to grow mushrooms,

00:21:55 ►

any mushroom is basically potential for you to grow, because you know the basics, you know,

00:22:02 ►

how they need light and water and air and those type of things.

00:22:09 ►

And so that’s, yeah, so that’s basically how it got started.

00:22:14 ►

Because I understood that in order to change minds really and truly, you do need to use, well, let me say it differently.

00:22:32 ►

When you use entheogens, you truly change minds, and that is what will truly make a

00:22:39 ►

change, because I don’t really believe we have a poverty issue. I believe it’s psychological.

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I believe people are thinking that there’s not enough and that they have to have more.

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But, yeah.

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Lack is manufactured.

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Lack is manufactured.

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In a commercial, you know, the entire world is in this web of commercial society.

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And so, you know, you have to have lack in order to have profits.

00:23:10 ►

But I always say, you know, you just throw a few kernels of corn in the ground.

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Look how many ears of corn you end up with.

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You plant a few fruit trees.

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You have more fruit than you can eat in a summer.

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I mean, this earth gives us so much.

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There is no lack.

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It is entirely manufactured.

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It’s artificial.

00:23:28 ►

Exactly.

00:23:29 ►

And so with the new career that I decided to to get the importance of growing local food

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and doing things, being green, saving energy, saving water.

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All those things are great and wonderful, but if we don’t change our mindset

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and realize that it is something, lack is something manufactured,

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there won’t be any change.

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We’ll keep going in this circle.

00:24:09 ►

Exactly, exactly.

00:24:11 ►

All right, well, I’m curious.

00:24:13 ►

I have questions for you about the medicinal mushrooms,

00:24:16 ►

but first just a couple more on the entheogenic mushrooms

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because I’m always curious to know, to hear from women,

00:24:24 ►

how they approach the medicine.

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I call it medicine.

00:24:30 ►

And so, yeah, I’m just curious, you know, I mean, do you bring ritual to it?

00:24:36 ►

You’re speaking a lot about your spiritual experience, your spiritual awareness.

00:24:42 ►

And so it makes me very curious to hear how you approach this,

00:24:47 ►

working with the psilocybin mushrooms.

00:24:51 ►

Well, I’ve always been comfortable with spirituality and rituals

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in that I have quite a dynamic family.

00:25:03 ►

I had an aunt who was known as a psychic and an astrologer,

00:25:10 ►

and so that type of thing was not foreign to me.

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So I think that’s how I just fit in so easily and naturally,

00:25:23 ►

whereas some people find it something that is quite a challenge,

00:25:30 ►

something that they have to study for years, have to be under someone.

00:25:34 ►

And really, if you have the understanding that we are spiritual beings, the things that

00:25:41 ►

we do are spiritual.

00:25:43 ►

You know, if we do it every morning, then it becomes ritual. So what I did was to listen and to just listen to what the mushrooms were saying and telling me.

00:26:07 ►

and what happened is as I studied them, people began to reveal themselves of who they are because they didn’t understand what I was doing and they reacted in so many different ways

00:26:14 ►

that I didn’t even have to partake in a sacrament in order to see the benefits of what it could bring.

00:26:28 ►

So, and then by growing mushrooms, you create such a relationship that you start to understand the, you know,

00:26:38 ►

the microcosms of the world, the macrocosms, and you just use that in day-to-day life.

00:26:51 ►

So in order to grow mushrooms, cleanliness is a necessity.

00:26:53 ►

You have to be clean.

00:26:55 ►

And this is also something that’s very spiritual. We always have to clear the space, you know,

00:26:59 ►

and you have to have reverence for air and clean water.

00:27:06 ►

Those types of things are very spiritual in nature, but yet so natural and necessary that we overlook them.

00:27:15 ►

You know, our ancestors didn’t put a big emphasis on this is recyclable and this is green.

00:27:24 ►

They just did what was naturally handed to them, what made sense.

00:27:29 ►

And so that’s kind of how I approach it.

00:27:32 ►

I clear my space.

00:27:35 ►

I’m still enough to know my feelings, where I am with things, where and then I try to figure out where i need to go so um

00:27:48 ►

so it just it just it just makes sense and then after i partake of the of the entheogen it’s

00:27:57 ►

it’s the teacher that you don’t really have to navigate so much.

00:28:10 ►

You know, you might do a little pre-envisioning where it is you want to go, but basically it’s going to take you exactly where you need to be.

00:28:13 ►

That’s right.

00:28:14 ►

And it’s going to show you exactly what you need.

00:28:16 ►

And it’s so completely magical that I have learned that the changes take place whether

00:28:24 ►

I am aware of them or not. The changes take place

00:28:27 ►

whether I recall every event that I’ve experienced or not. Those changes are there and they’re a part

00:28:34 ►

of me. And so basically, that I consider very spiritual and very ritualistic.

00:28:43 ►

I consider very spiritual and very ritualistic.

00:28:45 ►

Absolutely.

00:28:46 ►

Absolutely.

00:28:47 ►

Yeah.

00:28:56 ►

Would you, have you, have you come into perhaps partnership or engagement with a specific teacher through the youth?

00:28:58 ►

So for instance, I’ve, I work with owl, I work with pan.

00:29:04 ►

I work with owl, I work with pan.

00:29:08 ►

I mean, these beings came through the ritual use of that medicine,

00:29:14 ►

and then they pierced the veil of this world and have been guiding me ever since.

00:29:15 ►

Wow.

00:29:24 ►

Well, I don’t think so much with me.

00:29:26 ►

I’ve gotten names.

00:29:30 ►

I have felt energies. I felt at one time it was Quan Yin showing me how to be compassionate

00:29:39 ►

and how a good warrior is compassionate, and to just be still and calm and know that my motions need to be exact and precise,

00:29:54 ►

but very still and calm.

00:29:56 ►

And that helped me with the situation I was going through with my grandmother’s house coming into foreclosure.

00:30:06 ►

And I’m like, oh, no, they’re going to take the house.

00:30:09 ►

And then it’s like, you know, you need not panic because you’ve probably panicked

00:30:14 ►

about three or four times in the past five years about this same issue.

00:30:19 ►

But yet you’re okay.

00:30:21 ►

Yet everything worked out. And I’m not quite sure if that was the energy because it was very, what, telepathic in nature, the conversation or the communication.

00:30:37 ►

So, yeah, I haven’t yet to just talk to an individual with a name.

00:30:49 ►

But it’s more I can see the image and then I just communicate and I just know.

00:30:52 ►

That’s been pretty much my experience.

00:30:56 ►

Well, this has clearly impacted you in a very deep way because you’re putting on an actual

00:31:03 ►

conference.

00:31:03 ►

I mean, that’s a lot of work.

00:31:06 ►

That is quite an endeavor.

00:31:09 ►

And so you’ve got to be pretty passionate and inspired to do something like that.

00:31:15 ►

Definitely.

00:31:15 ►

It is definitely an uphill battle at this time because it’s so much information that has been kept from us for so long

00:31:30 ►

that I have to first educate people.

00:31:35 ►

And it seems to be very slow at this point.

00:31:42 ►

It’s been some that’s taken years.

00:31:47 ►

slow at this point it’s been some that’s taken years they took a couple years to say kai you know why didn’t you tell me this before and i’m going i i told you it’s here and you know i was just

00:31:56 ►

waiting for you to hear me so it is it’s very it’s it’s very difficult when people are buying into the whole drugs are bad, you know,

00:32:07 ►

throwing them all in together with one in one category of just illegal.

00:32:15 ►

And, you know, but yet, like I said, I have a very dynamic family,

00:32:21 ►

and I just remember my grandfather telling me,

00:32:24 ►

whatever is too difficult for everyone

00:32:26 ►

else is just right for you and and so you know and so it’s a challenge but it’s so gratifying

00:32:35 ►

when I see people who have actually overcome issues like OCD that was so debilitating that they couldn’t order lunch in a restaurant.

00:32:51 ►

I’ve seen people testify of overcoming sexual trauma.

00:33:00 ►

And so it’s a fight worth fighting.

00:33:05 ►

It’s a cause that I think will help so many people.

00:33:11 ►

And I actually believe in it because, like I said, I’ve worked in a school district.

00:33:17 ►

I’ve seen the problems.

00:33:18 ►

I’ve tried to come through it, to get to the children in a different way with, okay,

00:33:26 ►

we’re going to do something alternative to using drugs.

00:33:29 ►

We’re going to have fun, and this is going to be interesting,

00:33:32 ►

and you’re going to love it in the long run.

00:33:35 ►

But it just wasn’t enough,

00:33:38 ►

especially when the curriculum is telling them that drugs are bad, you know.

00:33:47 ►

This is something your parents or your uncle or your family members are doing,

00:33:51 ►

but they shouldn’t be doing.

00:33:53 ►

And you’re smarter than them, and you’re going to be okay if you just stay away from that, you know.

00:34:00 ►

And that’s such a disconnect because the children are the ones who suffer because they’re confused.

00:34:08 ►

And then they learn from their peers about drug use, which is not usually the best way to learn.

00:34:18 ►

And so I just feel that this work is so important.

00:34:24 ►

It needs to be talked about more. And so I just feel that this work is so important.

00:34:27 ►

It needs to be talked about more.

00:34:35 ►

It needs to be understood better so that we can have a grasp on these things, which is out of control.

00:34:44 ►

I mean, I can’t believe I see smokers, cigarette smokers at 15 and 16 years old in this day and age.

00:34:47 ►

You know, in the 50s or 60s, maybe.

00:34:52 ►

But in this day and age, knowing the addiction that it has and, you know, and that it’s actually more harmful than any other illicit drug, you know,

00:34:57 ►

it’s just very surprising that we’re still stuck in the same cycle.

00:35:07 ►

stuck in the same cycle so so yeah i am i’m bringing um i think a powerhouse of women who have who believe also in this cause and said yeah we you know we want to show up in cleveland

00:35:17 ►

no less you know somewhere where the rubber meets the road. You know, this is not the area that, you know, has been pampered by no means.

00:35:30 ►

We have been through depression and oppression and, you know, and lots of other things.

00:35:38 ►

And so I’m very excited about the women, the quality of women that are showing up and saying, hey, we support

00:35:47 ►

what you’re doing. And, you know, and we want to be a part of that. Beautiful. Yeah, you know, I,

00:35:55 ►

I see really that we are taught to abuse in this culture. I mean, the irony is so great,

00:36:03 ►

like when you were talking about how the

00:36:05 ►

schools are, you know, say no to drugs and drugs are bad and they don’t distinguish. And, uh, and

00:36:11 ►

then of course, uh, all these street drugs are available to these kids that are just incredibly

00:36:17 ►

deleterious. And, uh, and then what we see, uh, through the media, it’s, it’s just, it’s, it’s just a profaning of everything, everything. And we’re really taught

00:36:28 ►

to abuse. And I always, I talk to my daughters about this because I have a daughter 17 and

00:36:34 ►

another one 14. And they’re not interested in, thank God, they’re both like jocks. They’re not

00:36:39 ►

interested in like any drugs, smoking, nothing. But we’ve had really good discussions,

00:36:45 ►

thanks to my own personal work with a mushroom,

00:36:48 ►

in terms of here’s the difference.

00:36:50 ►

There’s differences in drugs, ladies.

00:36:52 ►

There are, you know, those that will destroy you,

00:36:56 ►

like heroin and cocaine and on and on.

00:37:00 ►

And then there are the, you know, what you call a sacrament, I call a medicine that have been used as long as man has been on the planet, probably back to Paleolithic times, you know, for incredible expansion of awareness.

00:37:19 ►

And will take you into conversation with invisible worlds.

00:37:26 ►

And so I can distinguish that with them.

00:37:29 ►

And also I wish these were legal because I would love to work with teenagers,

00:37:35 ►

maybe like 18, 19.

00:37:38 ►

Don’t you think if they had the right set and setting with a good shaman, you know, guide, it could help them tremendously, you know,

00:37:49 ►

and before they get into even bigger trouble down the road.

00:37:52 ►

Yes, yes, definitely.

00:37:54 ►

Yeah, that’s been my experience.

00:37:56 ►

Immediately when it hits their bodies, they say, hey, I know that I won’t ever put anything that is not good for me in my body

00:38:07 ►

because the mushrooms, their presence is made known as soon as they eat them.

00:38:17 ►

And they know once you eat it, it’s done.

00:38:21 ►

You can’t take it back.

00:38:22 ►

So once it’s in your body, you want something that’s going to show you exactly who you are,

00:38:28 ►

not a deliriant, who you’re confused, you don’t know who you are, where you are, you know, where you’re going.

00:38:37 ►

You want something that’s going to tell you exactly where you need to go, and mushrooms can do that for you.

00:38:45 ►

And so I think it is very important.

00:38:48 ►

That’s why I’m aiming at the women because they do need to talk to their children.

00:38:53 ►

They need to sit them down and have very good discussions about what is it that you want to accomplish, you know.

00:39:01 ►

What is it that you want to do?

00:39:02 ►

What is your goal when you want to get high, you know what is it that you want to do what is your goal when you want to get high

00:39:05 ►

you know is it just is it just for fun or is it that you want to experience something um outside

00:39:14 ►

of yourself so that you can have a different perspective maybe as you want to be more creative

00:39:20 ►

but we need to think about these things and and and why you want to do it instead of just being at a party and somebody just, you know, taps you on the shoulder like, hey, try this.

00:39:30 ►

And that’s worked for some people.

00:39:32 ►

Some people have gotten very good results with being open to that.

00:39:39 ►

But it’s unfortunately not all across the board. Some have taken the wrong path

00:39:46 ►

because of that

00:39:47 ►

approach that they have, that

00:39:50 ►

they don’t know about set and setting.

00:39:53 ►

You know, that they’re

00:39:54 ►

always thinking, you know,

00:39:56 ►

even some of the grown women are still

00:39:58 ►

thinking that they’re doing something wrong,

00:40:01 ►

something that, you know, they should

00:40:02 ►

be looking over their shoulder for

00:40:04 ►

or something that they should be looking over their shoulder for,

00:40:09 ►

or something that they should be looking for punishment to come, you know,

00:40:16 ►

whatever the circumstance is that you’re going to get a, that you’re going to get the,

00:40:29 ►

not a good result because, you know, you’re doing something that you shouldn’t be doing but if you go into it knowing that um good things will come from it if if you what they say is the biggest thing if if you can let go and

00:40:39 ►

and um and let it take you where it needs to go and have the right perspective is wonderful.

00:40:48 ►

It’s only good that can come of it.

00:40:49 ►

So I don’t believe in bad trips.

00:40:52 ►

I don’t necessarily call it medicine because I believe that we do need to use it to also explore, not just to heal.

00:41:00 ►

You know, sometimes when we think of, okay, we need to heal, we’re coming from a of okay we need to heal we’re coming from a point of

00:41:06 ►

we’re wounded we’re sick um and something’s wrong so so so that’s why i kind of come come from that

00:41:16 ►

that standpoint um i tried to not come from that standpoint rather but to come as we need to we need to know what’s out there and and have

00:41:27 ►

different perspectives and different understandings so that we can change things we can we can do

00:41:35 ►

something exciting and new because this is something that’s never been done before you know

00:41:40 ►

is what when would you like to put your feet up and just say okay i’m done i’m done

00:41:46 ►

learning i know all there is no you know that’s that’s like death to me you know so we really need

00:41:53 ►

to um you know just take it up a notch and stop being so comfortable especially with the the

00:42:00 ►

suffering that is um going on in the world for us to be so comfortable that we just are ready to work a nine to five until we retire and just live the American dream.

00:42:12 ►

I mean, that’s just the American dream is a concept.

00:42:17 ►

And there’s so many people who reach that point of, quote unquote, success who who go, is this it?

00:42:25 ►

Like, really?

00:42:26 ►

You know, like they realize, my God, this is so superficial, you know, I’ve been chasing

00:42:33 ►

a concept my whole life.

00:42:36 ►

And geez, there’s so much more that, you know, was missed.

00:42:40 ►

It’s really, I mean, I see it as quite a grand trick, really.

00:42:48 ►

missed. It’s really, I mean, I see it as quite a grand trick, really. And, you know, you were talking about calling in these powerful women into this discussion. And I was thinking how,

00:42:56 ►

you know, we have no touchstone in this culture for this level of exploration, if you will.

00:43:05 ►

And so what essentially you are saying is

00:43:09 ►

it’s time for those of us who feel that call

00:43:13 ►

to be the touchstones,

00:43:15 ►

to be the touchstones for this kind of endeavor

00:43:19 ►

because this, as you say,

00:43:22 ►

will take you far, far beyond this very carefully laid construct that we find ourselves in.

00:43:31 ►

That is not working, by the by, in case you haven’t noticed.

00:43:35 ►

Right, exactly.

00:43:51 ►

are legalizing and moving closer towards legalizing, I want us to not buy into their way of exploring these entheogens.

00:43:53 ►

Thank you for saying that.

00:43:55 ►

I’m so glad you said that because, you know, even the whole legalization, I don’t hear

00:44:02 ►

anyone talking about this kind of thing, but I do a lot of exploration into the whole sort of legal commercial piece that we’re in or matrix, if you will.

00:44:11 ►

And it’s a very corrupt system.

00:44:15 ►

And the legal system isn’t even what we think it is at all. And so there’s a legal maxim that says benefits from government often carry with them enhanced measures of regulation.

00:44:33 ►

So it’s like if you say to, we’re in a civil system, so all these people are essentially begging for the right to partake of something that comes to us freely abundantly grows in the ground from nature

00:44:46 ►

that’s like my god goddess okay but so so first of all when you have to ask for the right to do

00:44:53 ►

something you’re in a guardian ward relationship you’re in a slave master relationship i mean

00:44:59 ►

right right i mean so that is crazy and so they’re trying to get this system to recognize these substances,

00:45:06 ►

and the system will say, sure, we’ll recognize them, maybe,

00:45:11 ►

certainly for cannabis that has happened in my state of Washington,

00:45:15 ►

and I just heard in Oregon recently.

00:45:18 ►

And this will come with, you know, certain liabilities for you,

00:45:24 ►

certain regulations, shall we say.

00:45:26 ►

It’s probably one and the same with liability.

00:45:31 ►

So, you know, just something to think about.

00:45:34 ►

Anyway, and I didn’t mean to interrupt your thought, but you really got me going with that.

00:45:39 ►

Oh, yeah.

00:45:40 ►

Let’s hear more.

00:45:41 ►

That’s right.

00:45:42 ►

I agree.

00:45:43 ►

I agree totally.

00:46:05 ►

That’s right. I agree. I agree totally. And I think that I can’t even imagine what that set and setting would do to an experience for me. with people probing and things like that when people were taking entheogens because maybe they were being experimented on.

00:46:10 ►

And it’s such a cold setting.

00:46:12 ►

I don’t think it would also, I think it would be an issue with the people in the community

00:46:21 ►

having access to it. Just like now with the legalization of cannabis,

00:46:31 ►

it’s going to be the small growers that probably will not benefit from it.

00:46:39 ►

And also people are ready for the prices to go up.

00:46:44 ►

Also people are still being persecuted, even with the papers that says they have a right to use it medicinally.

00:46:54 ►

So basically, like you said, there’s much regulation, and then there’s also a lot of manipulation and using it to their benefit the way they want to use it.

00:47:08 ►

So, yeah, I don’t see that as being a total solution to the problem.

00:47:15 ►

I think that we need to be involved and get the information so that we can make responsible decisions ourselves,

00:47:26 ►

information so that we can make responsible decisions ourselves like we should, like you said, have the sovereignty to do over our own minds and bodies.

00:47:32 ►

And so, yeah, I think that’s very important, a very important piece to that, that we as

00:47:38 ►

humans have certain inalienable rights that we should be able to exercise.

00:47:47 ►

And like you said, going and marching and petitioning and begging for something that

00:47:55 ►

should be ours is not what I would like to spend my time doing at all.

00:48:01 ►

No, and these folks in government, you never hear this term anymore.

00:48:06 ►

Guess what they are supposed to be?

00:48:08 ►

Public servants.

00:48:10 ►

Servants.

00:48:11 ►

They’re supposed to work for us, right?

00:48:15 ►

And so that has, boy, has that flipped completely.

00:48:19 ►

And so now people fear their government, you know, and for good reason,

00:48:23 ►

because, you know, it’s just out of control.

00:48:25 ►

It’s become quite rigorously authoritarian these days and getting ever more so.

00:48:33 ►

And so, yeah, I mean, I feel very strongly, you know, as you were saying about this issue.

00:48:38 ►

I’m shaking my head going, oof, I don’t know, guys.

00:48:41 ►

I don’t know.

00:48:42 ►

Yeah, it’s scary.

00:48:45 ►

To me, it’s scary that when I try to reach out to women,

00:48:50 ►

that some of them just even refuse having the information,

00:48:55 ►

that they’re so afraid of our government and its consequences

00:49:01 ►

that they don’t even want to actually learn about something new.

00:49:05 ►

And I just kind of shiver at the thought of living in such a world that I would be afraid to learn, to get the information.

00:49:17 ►

It brought me so far because it took a while before I could actually partake of mushrooms and have the experience.

00:49:26 ►

Because I have a family, I have children, and I have to live in a society and make sure that, you know, everyone is safe.

00:49:34 ►

So it took a couple those years, I knew I was on the right path because

00:49:47 ►

it just brought me so far just with just learning, just by knowing.

00:49:53 ►

You know, we say cliches all the time, you know, knowledge is power.

00:49:57 ►

But until you actually experience it, you know, you don’t know the power behind that

00:50:04 ►

type of statement. But it really is truly empowering, empowering to know that there is another side, that there’s a different perspective, that you can look at things.

00:50:46 ►

And she spoke about tobacco. And I just thought it was a great perspective because coming from Cleveland Safe and Drug-Free Schools, we, you know, alcohol kills people. But how about we come, you know, if we came from a point of reverence for tobacco, yes, it

00:50:53 ►

hurts people, but that is because they’re not smoking the true tobacco. And tobacco

00:51:01 ►

has its place, you know, be it, I don’t prefer tobacco, you know.

00:51:06 ►

Some people prefer it more than others.

00:51:09 ►

But it definitely has its place.

00:51:12 ►

And how ridiculous is it to discriminate against a plant, something that’s part of nature.

00:51:19 ►

And I like what you said about how the teachers told you about how we were all just facets on a beautiful gem.

00:51:28 ►

I think it’s the same way with, you know, tobacco and other plants and everything.

00:51:35 ►

We need all of that, you know.

00:51:37 ►

It has its place.

00:51:39 ►

And it is part of this big, beautiful world of things that potentially can help us

00:51:45 ►

or just potentially are there for the experience or whatever is the reason.

00:51:51 ►

It’s there, and it has a reason.

00:51:53 ►

So I think that if we came from a more healthier perspective, we can kind of get a hold on it.

00:51:59 ►

Maybe we won’t be such a slave to it if we can say well like Kathleen suggested maybe if you prayed every

00:52:06 ►

time you went out for a smoke break because that’s what they did with tobacco they sent up

00:52:11 ►

your prayers with smoke you know so maybe if we took a different perspective we would have a better

00:52:17 ►

hold on it and it won’t just control us so much because right now we don’t know why we’re connected

00:52:23 ►

we just know that we want it

00:52:25 ►

you know we gotta have it we saw it because we think it’s because we saw the cool people doing

00:52:30 ►

it or whatever but it might be a different reason that we’ve never thought of um for us doing the

00:52:37 ►

things we do so yeah i think that’s that’s very important is that perspective. Yeah, yeah. And also even the understanding that there is a spirit of that plant,

00:52:51 ►

of each and every plant and fungi.

00:52:54 ►

I mean, all our ancestors across the board understood that.

00:52:58 ►

They all did.

00:52:59 ►

And so when you’re approaching tobacco, yeah, you’d work with the spirit of the tobacco.

00:53:05 ►

I mean, you could even sleep with the leaves under your pillow and, you know, call in a dream.

00:53:09 ►

I mean, this is obviously very different and may sound, quote unquote, woo woo to most people who are very much in this sort of Western.

00:53:26 ►

really, well, this Western box, and they’re really stifled by intellectualism, which is a shame because there’s this whole other piece, this rich, rich territory of spirit, of intuitive

00:53:34 ►

awareness, you know, and it’s like a whole different way of engaging these kind of things.

00:53:42 ►

Right.

00:53:44 ►

So, yeah, very different than what we’ve been taught.

00:53:47 ►

And I think that’s something important to remember, too,

00:53:49 ►

is everything we’ve been taught comes from this system we are in.

00:53:54 ►

I mean, everything.

00:53:55 ►

We’re told what they want us to hear.

00:53:58 ►

And then when you start doing your own research, you go,

00:54:01 ►

Hey, wait a minute.

00:54:02 ►

This is like the opposite of what I’ve been told.

00:54:06 ►

Yeah.

00:54:07 ►

Which is what I’ve been noticing.

00:54:09 ►

It’s like the system is like a mirror, and the mirror presents you with the opposite.

00:54:13 ►

And so you can stay within the confines, the perhaps safe confines of that system, if that’s

00:54:20 ►

what you want, or you can broach the unexplored, and you realize, my God, there’s a vast world out there. That’s what you want. Or you can broach the unexplored and you realize, my God, there’s a vast world out there.

00:54:28 ►

That’s right.

00:54:29 ►

But be careful.

00:54:30 ►

You might take it when you take that blue pill.

00:54:34 ►

There’s no going back.

00:54:36 ►

There’s no going back.

00:54:38 ►

No, but I like it out here.

00:54:41 ►

It’s endless fascination.

00:54:43 ►

It’s amazing what is what

00:54:47 ►

is what is out there i always joke that i i don’t ask for much i just want to know everything that’s

00:54:52 ►

all i just want to know everything at the same time of course i have great respect for the mystery

00:54:58 ►

and it is a great mystery keeps me coming back yes yes it really does yeah and then you know i just feel sorry

00:55:08 ►

for the people who are trapped on the other side it’s like you you just don’t know until you know

00:55:15 ►

and again that’s the uphill battle that um you know that they’re so afraid of what they may experience or what they may learn about themselves.

00:55:27 ►

But my fear is that, you know, that I won’t learn about myself.

00:55:32 ►

You know, that I’ll be, you know, someone who doesn’t know.

00:55:39 ►

Yeah, I want to know.

00:55:40 ►

I want to know if there’s something that I need to work on.

00:55:44 ►

If there’s a part of myself

00:55:45 ►

that i have been neglecting that i don’t love you know i want to know what that is if there’s if

00:55:52 ►

there’s something like that you know but some people they’re just um they’re just afraid and

00:55:59 ►

i want to yeah and so that’s why i have this conference, because I believe once people start seeing the numbers, because right now they have absolutely no idea how many people have benefited from entheogens and who actually use entheogens,

00:56:25 ►

who actually use entheogens, because we are so used to being so hush-hush about it and that we don’t let other people know,

00:56:31 ►

that they’re just going to be blown away by the support that people are,

00:56:39 ►

how people are waking up, you know.

00:56:41 ►

The people who are waking up and supporting this movement, I

00:56:46 ►

think it’s just going to blow people away that the numbers are there and that people

00:56:53 ►

are becoming conscious and all at the same time, all over the planet in different places,

00:56:59 ►

you know, there’s so much potential here that, you when you see african children with a cell phone you know to me

00:57:07 ►

that’s just amazing that’s so much potential there because you know this is the same computer

00:57:13 ►

that you had to have a room as big as you know a computer that can fit in in my kitchen and dining room together can now fit in the side of my pocket, you know.

00:57:28 ►

So the potential is there, the beauty is there, and people just have to have the courage.

00:57:36 ►

And once they get the courage, they’ll feel the reward.

00:57:40 ►

And basically, I think life rewards courage,

00:57:44 ►

and that will be enough for them to keep them coming back as well.

00:57:48 ►

Yeah, and I do think it’s a powerful statement coming from women because particularly the psychedelics,

00:57:55 ►

I mean, I see within the movement itself, there’s a lot, a lot, a lot of men in this movement.

00:58:02 ►

Yeah.

00:58:03 ►

Great guys, great, great, you know,

00:58:05 ►

but like not a whole lot of women.

00:58:08 ►

And when I spoke at the Ashland conference

00:58:10 ►

a couple of weeks ago,

00:58:11 ►

I was the only woman in a two-day conference.

00:58:14 ►

Now, Martin had, you know,

00:58:15 ►

he tried to get a few other women.

00:58:17 ►

He had, I think, two or three other women

00:58:19 ►

who were supposed to come,

00:58:20 ►

but then they couldn’t make it.

00:58:22 ►

So I was thinking,

00:58:23 ►

and I didn’t realize that until I got there.

00:58:24 ►

It’s like, oh my goodness, you know, that’s it for the women. What a bummer. And Martin tried. but then they couldn’t make it. So I was thinking, and I didn’t realize that until I got there.

00:58:27 ►

It’s like, oh, my goodness, you know, that’s it for the women.

00:58:28 ►

What a bummer.

00:58:29 ►

And Martin tried.

00:58:34 ►

He said no one else, you know, spoke up, you know.

00:58:39 ►

Well, it’s not appropriate for us to do it because we are the inventors of agriculture.

00:58:46 ►

We’re the ones who introduced the foods and the herbs and the medicines.

00:58:49 ►

We’re the ones that you would come to for that.

00:58:55 ►

So it’s very appropriate for us to be leaders here and for us to show people the way.

00:59:01 ►

We’re very in tune with our emotions and we’re very spiritual. So for you to neglect that side of it is missing a whole other world.

00:59:10 ►

And I believe that this is going to be the first of many conferences.

00:59:17 ►

I do think this is going to catch on and people are going to feel so good and wonder, what took me so long?

00:59:25 ►

Yeah, yeah. and people are going to feel so good and wonder, what took me so long?

00:59:28 ►

Yeah, yeah.

00:59:32 ►

And at the same time, I think timing is everything, right?

00:59:38 ►

And just like you say, here we are in an age of communication that is unprecedented.

01:00:12 ►

And so it really does feel like, all right, the red carpet has been laid out and we are ready. and with our communities and families at large, you know, and that this is truly a way of bringing people back to themselves.

01:00:17 ►

I really see, particularly, I mean, I’m partial to the mushroom,

01:00:18 ►

and that is my medicine of choice.

01:00:23 ►

I prefer working with that rather than with a synthetic.

01:00:27 ►

That’s just my own personal piece.

01:00:33 ►

But I see it as bringing us back to connection with nature, just like you’re saying with this whole mushroom farm

01:00:36 ►

and really bringing you back to,

01:00:39 ►

aha, the microcosm of the macrocosm,

01:00:41 ►

and this is interconnected with that.

01:00:44 ►

And the whole thing is this exquisite and delicate balance. And then ultimately with our own human nature, which don’t you find people are also losing touch with in this synthetic culture, you know, and there just seems to be quite a meanness that has developed, a very impersonal piece.

01:01:08 ►

There’s sort of this flip side of this groovy technology where people are anonymous,

01:01:13 ►

and then they can now sort of write whatever they want, cruel as can be.

01:01:18 ►

And so the whole sort of cyberbullying and the back and forth has gotten really quite ugly.

01:01:24 ►

bullying and the back and forth has gotten really quite ugly.

01:01:32 ►

And I just know, as you know, when you do these sacraments, if you will, it’ll also say to you, it’ll tell you where you’re messing up, where your shortcomings are.

01:01:38 ►

Or hey, you know, it’ll show you in feeling, you know, if you, you know, just where the

01:01:44 ►

work needs to be done.

01:01:48 ►

Yeah.

01:01:49 ►

Yeah, but you have to have a humility about you.

01:01:53 ►

You have to be humble enough to hear that.

01:01:55 ►

Yeah.

01:01:56 ►

And be willing to let go of that ego in order to go to those places.

01:02:01 ►

And it’s amazing to me that there are people who can partake of the sacrament

01:02:09 ►

or the mushrooms, the LSD, and not get anywhere, you know,

01:02:14 ►

that these can be some cruel people.

01:02:17 ►

Yeah, yeah.

01:02:19 ►

Yeah.

01:02:20 ►

You know, I’ve heard very sexist remarks on some of these pages when I say women and entheogens, you know.

01:02:30 ►

And so I feel that the system has been displaced.

01:02:38 ►

So we need the system to come back so that we have the mentorship or we have the apprenticeship that I can show

01:02:47 ►

someone else how to do it. This is how you do it and this is what you should do. And these are the

01:02:53 ►

parameters that we have to work with. And so some of those things have been taken away. And that,

01:03:00 ►

you know, and so that’s why I go back to Africa and I look at the system that was set up there, you know, how they used it for rites of passage and building community.

01:03:10 ►

And that spiritual world was not separate from, you know, our own world.

01:03:18 ►

They don’t consider it supernatural.

01:03:22 ►

Right.

01:03:22 ►

It’s just natural.

01:03:23 ►

That’s what, you know know that’s part of life

01:03:25 ►

our ancestors are here period they’re here helping us they’re here guiding us you know they’re always

01:03:31 ►

with us even though they’re not seen and so you know so we need people to um that’s why i do

01:03:38 ►

encourage a protocol um that i use and so right off the bat I used 5 grams

01:03:46 ►

I had 5 grams and

01:03:48 ►

a whole night

01:03:49 ►

with the mushrooms

01:03:52 ►

and just to see where

01:03:54 ►

it would take me and then I moved

01:03:56 ►

to 7 grams and these

01:03:58 ►

this is with the sitter, the 5, the

01:04:00 ►

7 and then 9 grams

01:04:02 ►

with the sitter because

01:04:04 ►

we want to practice responsibility and being safe.

01:04:10 ►

So I just incrementally went up with the dosage, and that really worked.

01:04:18 ►

You know, I had fortunately had a system there of people who told me that it would work,

01:04:27 ►

and so I felt confident enough to try it, and it really did work.

01:04:31 ►

So that’s what I think it is that we’re missing right now.

01:04:37 ►

We’re missing that network, that system that can have people actually get something out of the experience other than just a party, you know, or an unexpected time.

01:04:56 ►

You know, if we have someone there to say this is how you take it responsibly and this is what you can look for if you so choose

01:05:07 ►

it responsibly and this is what you can look for if you so choose and get some things out of it, I think we’ll move further.

01:05:11 ►

We seem to go backwards, like you said, you talked about how that disconnect was there.

01:05:16 ►

It seems like we just keep moving backwards and not being connected with nature and not knowing um or thinking we know what it is to

01:05:28 ►

be connected with nature you know um when you hear something different they completely say oh that’s

01:05:36 ►

not natural but you know we are natural we’re people so whatever we do is natural you know

01:05:43 ►

if two people decide to be together i don’t have a

01:05:47 ►

problem with it as long as you know you’re not at the bus stop with my children and you know as as

01:05:53 ►

witnesses if it’s something you’re doing behind closed doors with consenting adults then i don’t

01:05:59 ►

have a problem with it to me that’s natural that’s something that people chose to do you know but uh the ego

01:06:07 ►

causes people to have this controlling nature where they uh have a vision of what they think

01:06:14 ►

should be and if you don’t fit into that you know it’s the same thing that the government is trying

01:06:19 ►

to do get us all to fit into one program and then you know and if you don’t fit into that they have

01:06:26 ►

a problem with you but um to me things are going exactly as they should be you know um it may seem

01:06:36 ►

like things are out of control and that we could uh destroy the earth and that we could end life on this planet.

01:06:48 ►

But there’s no way we could destroy this planet.

01:06:53 ►

This planet has been here much longer than we have,

01:06:59 ►

and it survived many times over, you know, life being destroyed. We could make it hospitable for ourselves, you know, the air unworthy of breathing, but it’s not going anywhere.

01:07:10 ►

So I think that we need to kind of just basically stop and be able to listen,

01:07:18 ►

and we’ll have that connection because it’s there.

01:07:22 ►

It’s in us.

01:07:23 ►

It’s innate, you know, and that’s something that the mushrooms have helped me be able to do.

01:07:30 ►

Even though I was working on that before,

01:07:33 ►

it just kind of catapulted me into a whole other level of doing that,

01:07:39 ►

and that’s kind of what, that is what really called me is that I didn’t have to,

01:07:47 ►

I feel like these things would happen eventually, but how long will it take?

01:07:52 ►

Instead of me being on that slow boat to China, I just jumped on board these mushrooms,

01:08:00 ►

and it really did take me, it took me so far that it just kind of,

01:08:08 ►

I have to grab people’s hands and kind of drag them along with me

01:08:12 ►

because I don’t want to leave everybody behind.

01:08:16 ►

But, yeah, that’s what the mushrooms, I think, did.

01:08:19 ►

They just kind of put things on a different level of speed and time so that we can move further.

01:08:27 ►

Well, I think that’s a really good segue into the medicinal mushrooms because, I mean, the

01:08:33 ►

mushroom is extraordinary.

01:08:35 ►

I mean, so it offers us this visionary piece, and then we have these medicinal mushrooms

01:08:48 ►

medicinal mushrooms that, you know, will have anti-cancer properties,

01:08:51 ►

work on the immune system.

01:08:54 ►

I mean, give us the 411 on that.

01:08:55 ►

Okay.

01:09:03 ►

Well, even without the psychedelic part of mushrooms,

01:09:06 ►

I just had so much fun learning about them.

01:09:13 ►

I learned that they were here well before any plants or trees.

01:09:15 ►

They’re older than the plants and trees.

01:09:32 ►

As a matter of fact, they made life possible for them because they can actually crunch through rock. So, you know, what they call 6X when the world, like I said, life as we know it kind of ended and everything was destroyed that was larger than a mouse.

01:09:39 ►

It was covered with rocks and sand and no sun was allowed through all the big dust debris that the meteor kicked up when it hit the earth.

01:09:52 ►

It was mushrooms that did not need sunlight.

01:09:56 ►

They actually could use nuclear energy to grow.

01:10:00 ►

And because they grew and crunched through rock, they created soil.

01:10:04 ►

And from that soil, we got the trees.

01:10:07 ►

And so it’s just amazing to me that they have the abilities of just they can do anything.

01:10:16 ►

And I tell my students, I said, name a problem.

01:10:19 ►

I bet you mushrooms can solve it.

01:10:21 ►

You know, whatever you can think of.

01:10:24 ►

We can, you know, there’s you can think of we can you know

01:10:25 ►

there’s a way that mushrooms have the answer and and they breathe like we do they breathe oxygen

01:10:31 ►

and and out with carbon dioxide like we do so we have a lot of the same um enemies so their immune

01:10:40 ►

system can actually help boost our immune system because we fight some of the same things,

01:10:45 ►

some of the same bacteria and viruses that they will fight.

01:10:49 ►

We can use them in our own bodies.

01:10:52 ►

So cancer, tumors, people are even able to use it to help balance their brains.

01:11:02 ►

Someone came to me the other day.

01:11:04 ►

They said their doctor said that they were bipolar and they should eat more mushrooms.

01:11:10 ►

Things that help regulate our system, our blood pressure.

01:11:17 ►

What else?

01:11:22 ►

People with diabetes can help control that with mushrooms. Inflammation. And the list goes

01:11:29 ►

on and on. And the mushrooms go on and on. We have shiitakes and chaga, which is one of my you know, lion’s mane, you know, cordyceps.

01:11:47 ►

These mushrooms are just amazing at the things that they can do.

01:11:53 ►

And also their stories, their little stories that they have,

01:11:57 ►

these little dramas that go on underneath the surface that we don’t know about.

01:12:02 ►

underneath the surface that we don’t know about.

01:12:11 ►

I remember hearing from Paul Stamets how he fell upon the mycelium. He came across a mycelium for cordyceps and came across a sporeless mycelium

01:12:17 ►

that he decided to propagate because he had an insect problem in Seattle.

01:12:23 ►

Lots of rain, and he had one of these roofs that didn’t slope but kind of held the water,

01:12:29 ►

and so the rotting wood was perfect for carpenter ants and things like that.

01:12:34 ►

So instead of using chemicals to fumigate his home,

01:12:43 ►

he actually experimented with the cordyceps mycelium.

01:12:48 ►

Now, if you know about cordyceps,

01:12:50 ►

they’re a fungi that likes to eat social insects

01:12:56 ►

like carpenter ants and termites and things like that.

01:12:59 ►

And because these social insects have come across them for millennia,

01:13:06 ►

they know how to detect it. So if there’s a worker ant that accidentally fell into some spores, he would, of course, try to clean himself off before he comes back to the queen.

01:13:18 ►

But the guards at the door are going to be able to detect the spores.

01:13:22 ►

And when they do, they take that worker ant as far

01:13:25 ►

away from the queen as possible and where they decapitate it and then also decapitate themselves

01:13:31 ►

and are replaced by two new guards for the queen well when paul sammis came up with the sporeless

01:13:40 ►

mycelium they actually took that mycelium back to their home where the whole colony

01:13:49 ►

now is engulfed by this mushroom that will take over their brains first and then take

01:13:57 ►

over their bodies and have a mushroom pop out of their head.

01:14:02 ►

And once that mushroom drops spores

01:14:05 ►

in your home, you’re not going to

01:14:08 ►

have any type of termites

01:14:10 ►

or carpenter ants ever come

01:14:12 ►

near your home again because

01:14:13 ►

they’re so advanced

01:14:16 ►

that they’re going to avoid it.

01:14:18 ►

Okay, wait, wait. A quick question.

01:14:19 ►

It’s a sporeless mushroom, though.

01:14:22 ►

It’s a sporeless mycelium.

01:14:24 ►

Mycelium is the mother of mushrooms. So it’s a sporeless mushroom, though. It’s a sporeless mycelium. Mycelium is the mother of mushrooms.

01:14:26 ►

So it’s a network.

01:14:28 ►

It’s fungal.

01:14:29 ►

It’s a fungal network that grows underneath the ground.

01:14:33 ►

Mushroom is actually the reproductive system of the mycelium.

01:14:38 ►

So the whole point of the mushroom is, of course, to spread spores so it can take over more area.

01:14:47 ►

But the mycelium that was sporeless that he propagated did not have the things that the insect normally detects.

01:15:00 ►

Okay. If it was in nature, like I said, those spores would

01:15:05 ►

take over, it would go through the exoskeleton,

01:15:08 ►

take over its brain, and create

01:15:10 ►

this zombie of an

01:15:12 ►

insect that crawls to the tallest

01:15:14 ►

tree and out to the furthest

01:15:16 ►

limb, where it would clamp on

01:15:18 ►

and have a mushroom

01:15:19 ►

pop out of its head. And then

01:15:22 ►

in the forest, you have, you know,

01:15:23 ►

that’s an adaptive advantage, because now the mushroom is up at the top of the tallest head. And then in the forest, you have, you know, that’s an adaptive advantage

01:15:25 ►

because now the mushroom is up at the top of the college tree.

01:15:29 ►

And so it can propagate better.

01:15:32 ►

So it’s a drama that goes on back and forth.

01:15:36 ►

And, of course, you have ants that are mycologists,

01:15:38 ►

and they actually cultivate their own mushrooms that are good for their immune system.

01:15:44 ►

Paul Sammons was also able to tap into that with the honeybees.

01:15:48 ►

And I assume you know about that.

01:15:51 ►

Yes.

01:15:51 ►

Yeah.

01:15:52 ►

Okay.

01:15:53 ►

Yeah, with the mycohoney.

01:15:55 ►

Because the bees were actually using that mycelium to build their own immune system.

01:16:00 ►

And he found that that’s why the mites were able to take over these colonies.

01:16:07 ►

It’s because the bees didn’t have a strong enough immune system to fight off different

01:16:12 ►

things like the mites and whatever else their challenges were.

01:16:15 ►

So, yeah, mushrooms were amazing to me.

01:16:20 ►

And the fact that I can actually grow them really, really spoke to me because just

01:16:27 ►

to see the mushrooms grow is, it’s an awesome, it’s very awesome.

01:16:33 ►

It’s magical because you can come out one day and all of a sudden they’re there when

01:16:40 ►

there was nothing there the day before, you know. And so it only takes a matter of weeks for them to grow.

01:16:47 ►

And they’re so friendly.

01:16:51 ►

Like, I just call them the Buddha on the food chain

01:16:55 ►

because they are just, like, no harm done.

01:16:58 ►

They, you know, they don’t attack.

01:17:01 ►

Most of the time they’re not parasitic.

01:17:04 ►

You know, most of the times they’re eating things that we are trying to get rid of anyway,

01:17:09 ►

the debris from the trees, the leaves, wood chips, logs, you know.

01:17:14 ►

How about radiation?

01:17:16 ►

Oh, and they’ve been said to be able to clean up radiation.

01:17:23 ►

The problem, of course, is, okay, you know, now you have radioactive mushrooms,

01:17:28 ►

so you still have to, you know, figure that part out.

01:17:34 ►

But the fact that they can clean up oil spills and radiation

01:17:38 ►

and that we can use them that way is phenomenal.

01:17:42 ►

use them that way is phenomenal.

01:17:52 ►

And I think that, you know, I think it’s awesome when my children actually get excited about mushrooms and the things that you do.

01:17:53 ►

I don’t know if you saw my daughter.

01:17:57 ►

She’s eight years old, and, you know, ever since she started school,

01:18:01 ►

she’s been asking me to please come in and tell my class about mushrooms.

01:18:05 ►

So as a kindergarten, first grade, I would bring mushrooms in and we’d go out and look at the mushrooms.

01:18:12 ►

And, you know, they just, it’s just so, it’s exciting to see children say that, you know, I want to be a mycologist when I grow up, you know.

01:18:22 ►

And I just think that is awesome, and I think

01:18:25 ►

that because it’s so brand new, that there’s so many ways that this can go.

01:18:34 ►

There’s so much potential in it, because it’s only really been in the last 20 years or so

01:18:39 ►

that we’ve been able to tap into how to grow these mushrooms, the codes to doing that.

01:18:47 ►

They’ve been big facilities growing the button, the large facilities growing button mushrooms,

01:18:54 ►

and then they decided to get a little bit more exotic and grow it bigger.

01:18:59 ►

So now we have bigger button mushrooms, which is not really exotic.

01:19:04 ►

It’s really just a larger button mushroom.

01:19:07 ►

And so for years, that’s all we had is those people doing that.

01:19:12 ►

But because of psilocybin fanaticus, he and the Internet coming together,

01:19:19 ►

more people started to tap into how to grow medicinal mushrooms or psychedelic mushrooms.

01:19:28 ►

And so more information got out on the Internet on how to cultivate mushrooms.

01:19:33 ►

So now the small farmer can actually go online or get books and actually grow these mushrooms,

01:19:41 ►

which, like I said, 20 years ago was really unheard of.

01:19:46 ►

So it’s a growing industry.

01:19:49 ►

More people are starting to learn the benefits of them.

01:19:52 ►

It’s really actually no setbacks.

01:19:54 ►

It’s all beneficial.

01:20:01 ►

They use resources that we need to do something with anyway, newspaper, coffee grinds, leaves.

01:20:05 ►

And we can grow nutrient-dense food,

01:20:13 ►

food that will actually, you know, help children that are in lack of nutrients, which I think is the reason why they don’t make good decisions in the first place.

01:20:18 ►

That’s right.

01:20:18 ►

Because of the lack of nutrients.

01:20:20 ►

It’s usually water and nutrients, you know, that we’re lacking.

01:20:25 ►

And so, yeah, I’m very excited now that more people are starting to grow them.

01:20:32 ►

And I also do workshops and lectures here and whoever, you know, whoever asks me to come out.

01:20:41 ►

I usually, you know, do lectures and workshops on how to grow your own mushrooms

01:20:46 ►

because I think it’s room for everyone, you know.

01:20:50 ►

So I encourage other people to grow mushrooms.

01:20:53 ►

There are markets, there are farmer markets here that, you know, they call and say,

01:20:58 ►

hey, people are asking for mushrooms and we heard you’re, you know, in town and can you grow?

01:21:03 ►

I mean, can you come to our market, you know?

01:21:07 ►

And I think that’s awesome that they’re actually asking me to come to their market

01:21:11 ►

when usually farmers are looking for markets, you know, and have to call and do you have space?

01:21:16 ►

And they say, well, we got enough tomatoes or we already have apples, you know.

01:21:21 ►

But I just pretty much have my own choice of markets here because it’s

01:21:26 ►

not enough mushroom farmers.

01:21:30 ►

So, yeah, that’s really exciting to me that people can take their little mushroom kits

01:21:36 ►

home and grow oyster mushrooms right in their kitchen and put it right in a pan, and you

01:21:43 ►

have something that actually has

01:21:45 ►

vitamin d which i’m so excited about because you can’t really grow those in vegetables you know

01:21:52 ►

you get it from sunshine and that’s pretty much our primary place for getting it naturally you

01:21:58 ►

know they put it in our milk and things but it’s usually not as absorbable. Oh, no. But the mushrooms can transform that sunlight to vitamin D just like we can.

01:22:08 ►

And they can actually be charged with it if you dehydrate them in the sun.

01:22:15 ►

You can actually charge them up with even more vitamin D.

01:22:18 ►

I mean, they just amaze me in every way.

01:22:22 ►

Well, I have to tell you, I am so excited to come out to Cleveland and hang out with you

01:22:29 ►

and see your mushroom farm.

01:22:33 ►

Have fun, yeah.

01:22:34 ►

You’re going to see the mushroom farm.

01:22:37 ►

And it’s really coming along.

01:22:39 ►

We have a hoop house.

01:22:41 ►

I got a lot from a grant program in Cleveland called the Land Bank Program.

01:22:48 ►

It’s a city program.

01:22:50 ►

We also have a county program with larger pieces of land.

01:22:54 ►

But this is just an urban environment.

01:22:58 ►

I got a lot for like a dollar for that program.

01:23:01 ►

I applied for another program from the USDA and got a hoop house because I heard that you

01:23:08 ►

can grow mushrooms in them. And in 2013

01:23:11 ►

the hoop house went up and the mushroom farm came into

01:23:16 ►

existence. And we plan on having solar power,

01:23:20 ►

wind power. We want to have

01:23:24 ►

all types of mushrooms

01:23:25 ►

for people to learn how to grow

01:23:27 ►

and see how they’re

01:23:31 ►

cultivated,

01:23:32 ►

including Amanita

01:23:33 ►

muscaria for our

01:23:36 ►

pine tree,

01:23:37 ►

glow-in-the-dark mushrooms,

01:23:40 ►

garden giants,

01:23:43 ►

reishi,

01:23:44 ►

all kinds of medicinal mushrooms

01:23:47 ►

that we’re going to be growing indoors and outdoors with little or no money,

01:23:53 ►

you know, that we’re doing this thing.

01:23:55 ►

So I’m really excited about this mushroom farm.

01:23:57 ►

I think it’s going to really continue to grow.

01:24:01 ►

We also have a Cobb pizza oven that

01:24:06 ►

we did a workshop

01:24:07 ►

to get and

01:24:10 ►

we’re going to offer

01:24:12 ►

mushroom pizza to the community.

01:24:14 ►

How cool is that? Fast,

01:24:16 ►

healthy food in the community.

01:24:18 ►

Mushroom pizza. I think this

01:24:20 ►

thing is really going to catch on. What do you think?

01:24:22 ►

Oh, Kai, you know what I think?

01:24:24 ►

You are amazing.

01:24:26 ►

You are such an inspiration.

01:24:29 ►

Thank you.

01:24:29 ►

Your passion is infectious, and I’m so stoked.

01:24:36 ►

I’m just so happy to know you, and I can’t wait to meet you in person.

01:24:39 ►

And I think you have brought so much valuable information today to everyone who’s going to listen to you.

01:24:46 ►

And I hope that this goes out far and wide because your wisdom and your knowledge is just your treasure.

01:24:57 ►

I can’t thank you so much, Kai.

01:25:01 ►

Yeah, this has been fantastic.

01:25:01 ►

So much, Kai.

01:25:03 ►

Yeah, this has been fantastic.

01:25:10 ►

Okay, so do you have a website specifically for the mushroom farm that you can give to the listeners?

01:25:14 ►

Well, you told them initially the Cultured Mushrooms with a K.

01:25:16 ►

Yeah, for the Facebook.

01:25:26 ►

Yeah, that’s on Facebook, and that’s the grassroots type of effort there with the Cultured Mushrooms where I teach and we do workshops and things like that.

01:25:30 ►

And then we have Women in Entheogens.

01:25:33 ►

It’s a public page on Facebook as well.

01:25:38 ►

And when’s the conference again, so everyone knows?

01:25:41 ►

And the conference is September 18th through the 20th.

01:25:44 ►

And the conference is September 18th through the 20th.

01:25:51 ►

Friday is going to be a free day where I’m inviting people to come,

01:25:54 ►

especially the ones who are on the fence,

01:26:01 ►

so they can get a gist of what they’re going to get when they buy into this conference and hear the information and the personalities

01:26:06 ►

and all this energy, this awesome energy that’s going to be part of the conference.

01:26:12 ►

So I really think they’re going to sign up for that conference on Friday

01:26:15 ►

when they hear the panel discussion and introduce and meet the speakers.

01:26:22 ►

And Saturday is going to be all day, speakers back-to-back.

01:26:27 ►

We’re going to have people who experience ayahuasca in the Amazon

01:26:31 ►

to people who experience iboga with the Bwiti people.

01:26:39 ►

And, of course, Arthur is like you, who have great information and stories to share.

01:26:47 ►

And Annie Oak, I’m excited to say, said that she’d be able to make it.

01:26:53 ►

Yay!

01:26:54 ►

Yay!

01:26:55 ►

She’s so awesome.

01:26:57 ►

I met her and just fell in love.

01:26:59 ►

I mean, she’s so open and just warm.

01:27:04 ►

Like you, Sh Shauna very warm

01:27:06 ►

and I just think entheogenic

01:27:08 ►

people are some of the

01:27:10 ►

best people that you can meet

01:27:12 ►

very sincere

01:27:13 ►

down to earth people very

01:27:16 ►

spiritual and I just

01:27:18 ►

you know I’m just

01:27:19 ►

on that side of things I’m a little

01:27:22 ►

selfish in

01:27:23 ►

why I did this conference.

01:27:26 ►

It’s because I just really want to be surrounded with such wonderful people, you know, that I keep finding in this community.

01:27:37 ►

So, yeah, the 18th through the 20th, and then Sunday is going to be at my farm. The Saturday will be at the Universalist Unitarian Society.

01:27:48 ►

And then Sunday the events will take place at the Buckeye Mushroom Farm.

01:27:54 ►

So that’s in a nutshell, yeah, the 18th through the 20th, the Women’s Entheogenic Conference.

01:28:03 ►

Fantastic.

01:28:04 ►

Well, Kai, thank you so much.

01:28:08 ►

Thank you so much.

01:28:09 ►

You’re quite welcome.

01:28:11 ►

This was a very fun talk, as I knew it would be.

01:28:16 ►

I talked about my favorite topic and with one of my favorite people,

01:28:21 ►

so I really want to thank you.

01:28:23 ►

I really want to thank you for being a part of this

01:28:26 ►

wonderful experience that I’m just so, I feel so blessed to have, and I just hope this continues.

01:28:38 ►

I would love to, you know, present with you again sometime, so hopefully we’ll see each other again because you know I think

01:28:46 ►

this is wonderful that

01:28:48 ►

some of these conferences are opening

01:28:50 ►

up to women

01:28:51 ►

and we’re starting to see

01:28:54 ►

different faces rather than the

01:28:56 ►

you know the same

01:28:57 ►

50 year old white male

01:28:59 ►

you know I’m just loving

01:29:02 ►

that we have more women who

01:29:04 ►

are very strong

01:29:06 ►

and speaking up for this movement.

01:29:13 ►

Yeah, and I will say some of those 50-plus white males are absolutely amazing.

01:29:18 ►

They are.

01:29:18 ►

They really are.

01:29:19 ►

They’re awesome.

01:29:20 ►

I mean, because I really, but the women and the women need their voices heard.

01:29:25 ►

Variety is the spice of life.

01:29:27 ►

That’s right.

01:29:28 ►

That’s right.

01:29:30 ►

Well, great.

01:29:31 ►

On that note, Kai, I’m going to say goodbye, and I can’t wait to see you in person.

01:29:38 ►

Yes.

01:29:38 ►

And, yeah, be well.

01:29:41 ►

Thank you for everything you do.

01:29:43 ►

Thank you.

01:29:44 ►

Thank you.

01:29:45 ►

You too. Have a good evening. do. Thank you. Thank you. You too.

01:29:46 ►

Have a good evening.

01:29:47 ►

Okay.

01:29:48 ►

Bye-bye.

01:29:48 ►

Bye.

01:29:51 ►

You’re listening to The Psychedelic Salon,

01:29:53 ►

where people are changing their lives one thought at a time.

01:29:58 ►

Although I’m glad to learn that there are some good 50-year-old white males out there,

01:30:03 ►

I must admit that, well, I’m a little disappointed that us 70-plus-year-old white males out there. I must admit that, well, I’m a little disappointed

01:30:06 ►

that us 70-plus-year-old white males were not mentioned.

01:30:10 ►

And if you could see me right now,

01:30:12 ►

my smile would tell you that I’m joking.

01:30:14 ►

But in all seriousness, I really don’t know about you,

01:30:18 ►

but I think we should urge whomever is the next U.S. president

01:30:22 ►

to make Kai Wingo the new drug czar.

01:30:24 ►

As much as I hate that the new drug czar.

01:30:29 ►

As much as I hate that term, drug czar, well, we’ve got to start from where we are.

01:30:34 ►

And can you imagine how much things would change if we gave Kai that position and the power to bring her practical, on-the-ground experience

01:30:38 ►

about many of the various aspects of this so-called war on drugs

01:30:42 ►

to bear on solving this problem?

01:30:44 ►

Can you tell how enamored I

01:30:46 ►

am now with Kai? Wow, what an amazing person to have grown into the woman she is today.

01:30:53 ►

If ever there was someone to point to as a shiny example of what using psychedelic substances can

01:30:59 ►

do for someone, anyone, anywhere, it’s Kai Wingo. A lot of people, myself included, have attended Thank you. passed on to us and done something with it to the extent that Kai has. She is truly unique, one of a kind, and it seems to me that all of us should do whatever

01:31:30 ►

we can to help her first conference become a successful event, one that’s repeated from

01:31:35 ►

year to year.

01:31:37 ►

It already has the makings of a major conference, from what we just heard.

01:31:42 ►

So even if you don’t live nearby, I urge you to talk about it on social media

01:31:47 ►

and tell your friends about it.

01:31:49 ►

Later this week, I’m going to install an events calendar

01:31:52 ►

on our Programs Notes blog,

01:31:54 ►

which you know you can get to via psychedelicsalon.us.

01:31:58 ►

And on it, I’ll post all of the conferences

01:32:00 ►

that I know about right now.

01:32:02 ►

For example, in just a few days,

01:32:04 ►

there’s going to be a conference in London that Zybear told

01:32:07 ►

me about the other day.

01:32:09 ►

And if you are anywhere around London, you should maybe check out the extraordinary psychedelic

01:32:14 ►

conference, Breaking Convention.

01:32:16 ►

And you can find out more about it at all one word, breakingconvention.co.uk.

01:32:22 ►

And the dates, unfortunately, are right now, July 10th through 12th, 2015.

01:32:28 ►

And had I known earlier, I would have let you know about it.

01:32:31 ►

So, as you become aware of new conferences that aren’t yet posted, once I get the calendar live,

01:32:37 ►

it’d be really nice if you sent a message via the Connect form on the website,

01:32:41 ►

and I’ll add it to the events notices.

01:32:43 ►

And there’s one other thing that you can

01:32:45 ►

do for me. For reasons that I don’t understand, iTunes has dropped the salon from its directory.

01:32:52 ►

And over the years, that’s been the biggest source of new fellow salonners. You may even have found

01:32:57 ►

us that way yourself. But for the time being, the main way people are going to find the salon is if you tell them.

01:33:06 ►

So if we are to continue to keep finding more of the others, it’s, well, it’s now up to you, at least for a while.

01:33:13 ►

I’ll try to not get too geeky here, but this podcast was never intended to grow so large.

01:33:19 ►

As a result, it’s built on what us old-time programmers call spaghetti code.

01:33:24 ►

It’s built on what us old-time programmers call spaghetti code.

01:33:27 ►

And by the end of this year, that’s going to be fixed,

01:33:32 ►

and I’ll be able to submit a new, clean RSS feed to iTunes for their consideration.

01:33:36 ►

But until then, it’s up to you to let others know about us.

01:33:38 ►

And I thank you in advance.

01:33:44 ►

So, for now, this is Lorenzo, signing off from Cyberdelic Space.

01:34:17 ►

Be careful out there, my friends. Thank you.

⚗️ alembic

Explorer

458 - Practical Mushroom Activism

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Program Notes

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