217 - McKenna Under the Teaching Tree Part 3

Program Notes §

Guest speaker: Terence McKenna

[NOTE: All quotations are by Terence McKenna.]

“The UFO community is just fraught with the most crack-brained, peculiar, self-serving, unstable, mush-minded group of people you would ever hope to get together in one place. I mean it’s like a magnet for screwballs.” [Terence then went on, at great length, to describe his own encounter with a UFO … go figure  .]

“I’ve seen things that violated the laws of physics. I believe the laws of physics can be violated. I believe there may well be extraterrestrials somewhere in the universe.”

“My technique, which I recommend to you, is don’t believe anything. If you believe in something, you are automatically precluded from believing its opposite. Therefore you have given up a portion of your freedom, and freedom is the dearest thing we’ve got.”

“Probe the edges.”

“Psychedelics work. If you think that I’m bullshitting you, go home and take five grams of mushrooms in silent darkness and then we’ll talk. That’s the sine qua non. It’ll work, on demand. I’m not saying, ‘And wait forty years, or purify yourself, or get your aura stitched up, or any of the rest of it. It’ll work. It’ll blow your mind to shreds. It’s real.”

“What I’ve decided is that the [DMT] experience is an archetype. It’s the archetype of the circus.”

“I think where the dead and the living get together is in the dream time. Australian Aborigines have been trying to tell us this for as long as we would listen.”

“The dream state is more like the tryptamine geography than anything else.”

“Fairies respond to riddlery. This has to do with this thing about language. And the strange relationship of the Irish to intoxication, faries, and language suggests that here we might have a restrictive gene pool that has somehow indemnified itself in the direction of these peculiar concerns.”

“As long as we pursue the destruction of the Earth, and the elaboration of materialist ideology, and the suppression of psychedelic states, and the suppression of the feminine we are going to be alienated, feel abandoned, and operate in an ambiance of rampant pathology.”

“The apocalypse is no longer a rumor. It has arrived in many parts of the world.”

“Do what you think is right. Think about what you think is right, and once you’ve thought about it then do it!”

Previous Episode §

216 - McKenna Under the Teaching Tree Part 2

Next Episode §

218 - The Truth About Cannabis

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Transcript §

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Greetings from cyberdelic space.

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This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.

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And your additional hosts are Chris T. and Tara S.,

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both of whom made donations to help with the expenses here in the salon.

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And so a big thank you goes out to Chris and Tara.

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I really appreciate your help.

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Now, as for today’s talk,

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which is the completion of Terrence McKenna’s talk under the teaching tree at the Ojai Foundation,

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I’m still not sure who has sent it to me, but on my Facebook page, Jan Ervin posted a note that said,

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that’s one I released from the SWR archives many years ago.

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Now, I can’t claim to know what the SWR archives are, but if you were the ultimate

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source of this recording, Jan, well, hey, thank you very much. Also, there was a comment or an

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email from the Dusty Shaman about this McKenna talk, and he said, Lorenzo, isn’t this talk from 1992? See Part 1, 3550-3620, where Terrence claimed his first DMT trip was in 66.

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Now, again, I’m really not clear on how that reference sets the date at 1992,

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but I am willing to agree that the file I received, which was labeled 1985, could well be wrong.

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In fact, there’s another reference in the talk that we’re about to hear

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that also indicates to me that this talk was given sometime in the 1990s.

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But in any event, I think you’ll find the remainder of this workshop

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as interesting as it was in the beginning.

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Now, I’ve actually got a big smile on my face

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as I’m getting ready to play the rest of Terence McKenna’s

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Under the Teaching Tree talk,

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because I can’t wait to hear it again myself,

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particularly his theory that crop circles are being made by Japanese tourists

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and that people become schizophrenics

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because other people treat them differently

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because they have a strange smell.

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And, hey, I’m not exaggerating here.

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Just wait and you’ll hear for yourself.

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And what the funniest thing to me is, is that he sounds completely serious about both of them.

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The enigma that was the Bard McKenna.

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Bard McKenna. And here he is now in Ojai, California on a day in April 1985 or September 1992. Who knows? Anyhow, it was some time ago. So let’s join them now.

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Well, Danny and I last night were discussing this transcendental object.

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We were enumerating a list of things that it could possibly be.

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And as you say, the cast of reflection and so forth.

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How is it that, say, for example, the Ayahuasqueros,

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in Pablo Amaringo’s drawings, there’s a UFO motif in one of his drawings.

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What is that?

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You mean, do they see UFOs?

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What are they…

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What is it that they see?

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Because they specifically identify this motif as separate from the rest of the drawings

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in one of Shaman’s Drum magazines, I believe.

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Well, I’m giving the UFO a slightly different status

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than this stuff I’m dumping on.

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I think the UFO is real,

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or that there is a real phenomenon.

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The problem is, what is the phenomenon and it’s a why someone who sees a spinning disc

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in the sky assumes then an entire theology about friendly extraterrestrials coming to help us out

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why do they assume that what they’ve seen is a spinning disc in the sky, for crying out loud.

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Maybe what they saw was a spinning disc in the sky.

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There are two phenomenon here which are entangled inextricably

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and unfortunately for the intellectually honest.

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There’s the UFO.

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Who knows what that is?

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And then there’s the UFO community.

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And the UFO community

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is just fraught with the most crack-brained,

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peculiar, self-serving,

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unstable, mush-minded group of people

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you would ever hope to get together in one place.

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I mean, it’s like a magnet for screwballs.

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I mean, people who like to wear diamond tiaras

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and give themselves funny names.

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It has absolutely nothing to do with the tremendously fascinating

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and ambiguous phenomenon of strange things seen in the sky.

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I mean, I went through this.

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I’m not talking as an outsider.

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I’ve seen…

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I had a UFO encounter

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that was a deeper encounter

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than most of the people who run around pontificating about UFOs.

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And I will, at the risk of boring you yet again with this story, tell the story.

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I was in the Amazon.

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I was having all these revelations about time and one thing and another. And I noticed a place in the sky

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where there was a spectrogrammatic diffraction of some sort.

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It wasn’t a rainbow.

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It was a colored smudge in the sky.

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And I was lightly but continually intoxicated on mushrooms during this period.

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And it said, watch there.

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It was in the southwest.

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And I really didn’t need to be told, but it said, watch there.

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So I sat up one night, all night, on this rock by a lake, watching the southwest.

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rock by a lake watching the southwest and around 4 30 in the morning with essentially a perfectly clear sky except that off the amazon jungle local mist rises and so about a mile and a half away

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from me on the horizon was a line of what looked to me like a little fog bank

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and as light broke over this situation i could i noticed i couldn’t tell whether it had been doing

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this or it began doing it as things got lighter but i noticed that this fog bank was rolling in place,

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like a pencil rolled between your fingers, which I had never seen a fog do that.

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I thought, what a strange thing.

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And as I watched it stretched out across the horizon,

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it gently broke into four equal-sized pieces. So now I’m looking

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at four gray lenticular clouds spaced out along the horizon about a mile and a half

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away from me across this lake. So I’m watching, and I’m getting eager, and I’m getting eager and I’m getting excited.

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And as I watch these four lenticular clouds, two and two merge.

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Now I’m looking at two denser, grayer, dark gray, darker than storm clouds,

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these two things on the horizon.

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And as I watch the four became two, the two become one.

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And at that point, faintly, I could hear the whee, whee, whee sound of 1950s science fiction UFOs,

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a la The Day the Earth Stood Still,

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They Came from Outer Space,

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so forth and so on.

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And I see, my God,

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this thing is starting toward me.

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And the sound is getting louder.

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And at that point,

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there was like a complete conversion

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in an instant.

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And my whole body went cold, and I realized they’re coming for me.

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This is it, you know.

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Prepare to be beamed up, Scotty.

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And everybody was asleep in a hut about 70 feet up this mud embankment.

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I was down by the river and the lake.

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And I said, and it flashed in my mind, I have to get a witness.

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There must be a witness.

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And I looked over my shoulder at the mud bank.

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The thing was coming at me.

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I half stood up.

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My knees were so weak.

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I sat back down, and I just prepared to depart this planet, this dimension.

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And as it came, I could see it, and it was getting closer and closer.

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I could see rivets on the underside.

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I could see the running lights.

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And as it got closer and closer, I realized that what I was looking at was the end cap

00:10:15 ► §

of a 1932 Hoover vacuum cleaner. The very end cap that George Adamski had suspended on a piece of nylon thread in his garage and photographed with his Brownian stomatic to produce the famous UFO photograph of the UFO with the three balls on the underside and the ribbing going around, right? That photograph has been utterly debunked.

00:10:47 ► §

Computer analysis of it by modern techniques, it’s bullshit.

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And there it was, 40 feet in diameter, coming after me across the Amazon treetops.

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Well, then, and I just went bananas at that point, and then it passed over not more

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than 200 feet above my head, turning slowly. I could see the three balls. I could see the

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everything. I could see it. And I understood then that what it was was it was more shocking than a real UFO

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because it had its disconfirmation built into it.

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I was having an experience which you couldn’t tell anybody about.

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What would the editor of We Love UFOs magazine say if you told him that story?

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He’d say,

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get out of here.

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We don’t print stories like that.

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We’re interested in real you.

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Did it impart information to you

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of some sort? Because apparently

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you’ve been knighted the

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person to speak

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about mushrooms in such a way that

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you’re actually, and some

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people do say that Terrence McKinnon may be an alien being himself,

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and carnet.

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Well, only people who are in litigation would believe me.

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I think what it was telling me, it was a perfect Zen lesson.

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It was saying, don’t believe in UFOs.

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lesson. It was saying don’t believe in

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UFOs. They’re the end caps

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of 1932 Hoover

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vacuum cleaners, expand to 40

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feet in diameter and

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flying through your mind.

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So you have to question

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everything. Yeah, it’s saying

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you know, you can’t

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replace one stupid

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hypothesis, there aren’t

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UFOs, with another stupid hypothesis there aren’t UFOs with another stupid

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hypothesis we’re being visited by benevolent creatures from another world

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have to get a little more depth here if you want to be the alien ambassador

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Well, the crop circles, I’m now less sure about the crop circles.

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What I liked about them was that they appeared at a certain point in time, and then each year there were more of them.

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And I figured that we could take how many there are each

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year and draw a curve and reach a conclusion about how far away in the future the source

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of them was. Because if they are, it’s almost as though the UFO scene leaves no trace.

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I mean, the burn marks on the ground, but already you’re into dubiousness

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because who has ever seen these burn marks?

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Only the editors of these UFO magazines and their willing psychophants.

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I mean, you and I have not seen these burn marks.

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We’ve seen photographs of funny stuff on the ground,

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and we’re told that’s it.

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The crop circle leaves a trace that is enduring.

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But the problem there, the problem I have with the crop circles,

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and it’s odd how you never hear this discussed,

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is that nobody has ever seen one come into existence.

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We get before, and we get after.

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But how come we never get during?

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Do they appear instantly?

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If they appear instantly, that would be pretty convincing.

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Just glance, it’s not there.

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Glance, glance, it’s not there glance glance

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it’s there

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and figure

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yeah

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um

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there’s a

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I thought he was doing

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a lot of the research

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it’s Collins

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Andrews

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doing a lot of research

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on this

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and I’ve got a recording

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and this is basically

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how he described it

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they were

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waiting

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and setting up to in this area to try and record some of this going on. and all of a sudden they all stand up because there’s this incredibly strange,

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powerful sounding buzz of some kind

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that comes from far away,

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just comes zooming up and comes past them

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over this little rise in the next minute.

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Okay?

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And it takes them all of maybe, you know,

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45 seconds or a minute to get to the top of the rise

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and there on the other side of the rise

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is a proper-circuit

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that wasn’t there when he started setting up.

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So apparently, you know,

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and Richard Hovland talks about this too.

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Don’t get me started.

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Okay.

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Don’t get me started.

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Bad works of art on a scale of miles

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are not what we should expect

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from intelligent visitors

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from the stars.

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Here’s what I…

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Let me…

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Isn’t it a little weird?

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Let’s…

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I mean, first of all,

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let me say I’m open-minded

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about the crop circles.

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But let’s also not be silly.

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Isn’t it a little peculiar that this phenomenon appears within driving distance of the apartments of the people most likely to chronicle and proclaim it as a manifestation of telluric

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energy from another dimension? In other words, what if it had been happening in Turkmenistan?

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Then you would have something. But then how would John Michelle and Colin Andrews and all these

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people have been able to make a living off of it?

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There are a number

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of things that are really weird about

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the crop circles. First of all,

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we’re talking southern

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England here.

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The place is littered with

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RAF bases,

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nuclear weapons depots,

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intercontinental

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missile delivery systems, so forth and so on.

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And we’re asked to believe that the Ministry of Defense is utterly unconcerned about the fact that the airspace of Great Britain

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is being violated night after night after night by a mysterious agency that, if it can snap the stem of a wheat stalk,

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could throw the switch on an electrical device of some sort.

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The British establishment is utterly unconcerned by the crop circle.

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They’re not necessarily sent from above.

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Well, but wherever it’s coming from, if you had a nuclear weapons depot,

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I think you would be Johnny at the raffle to find out what’s going on.

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Didn’t you read, like, last year or the year before,

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like, these two guys came forward and said that they perpetrated a hoax?

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Right, and all that did was muddy the waters.

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Well, it did one good thing.

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It finished the it-can’t-be-done-by-human-beings position.

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We now know, you know, Rupert and all these people,

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Rupert, believe it or not, is the plant pathologist

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who serves on the board of the seriologist,

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which is the main publication that is booming this, they held

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a contest in July where you paid 50 pounds, you were assigned a five-acre plot, you had

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from 10 at night until 4 in the morning.

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There were, I think, 16 entries.

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Everybody was given the same design.

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And at dawn, judges helicoptered over the sites

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and then made the ground inspection.

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And three of the contestants produced crop circles

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that were indistinguishable from the real thing.

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Beautiful crop circles.

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And I’m getting this from believers.

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You know, this is what Rupert reluctantly informed me of.

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I think that, and you know, one theory is that it’s a particle beam weapon being tested from space,

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but tested 750 times in the last 18 months in the same small part of England?

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We’ll recover this back.

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I don’t know.

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We tried, I came up with two theories that do not require telluric intervention

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or friendly extraterrestrials.

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First theory.

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A whole lot of people, first of all, it’s killed the UFO industry in England.

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You can’t give away UFO sightings at this point.

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So all of these people, you know, it all is happening near Glastonbury

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and down where the old earthworks are.

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It’s occurring in an area where there is the largest concentration of people likely to hail it as a paranormal phenomenon on the surface of the earth.

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And they have done so.

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They have made outrageous statements,

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statements like no human being could do this,

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it’s impossible to explain this, so forth and so on.

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Well, now imagine that something like MI5,

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you know what that is, it’s the English CIA,

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looks at the rise of paganism in Britain,

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you know, earthworks, channeling, all of this stuff,

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and says, this threatens church and state.

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We need to create a disinformation situation.

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Let’s lure these people out onto a limb,

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way out onto a limb, way out onto a limb,

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and then let’s cut the limb off.

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So what you do is you create this pseudo-paranormal phenomenon.

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You get John Mitchell, Colin Andrews,

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all these people to proclaim its weirdness,

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and then you reveal that it’s easily duplicated.

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That’s one theory. In other words, the British establishment is undercutting paganism by

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luring these people into saying too much. But that’s not my favorite theory.

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That’s a good one, though. That’s your favorite.

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Oh, my favorite theory is much better.

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Because the question is, how do you make these things?

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When you actually go to the crop circles, what do you see?

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This is a Sherlock Holmes type deal.

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You know, Sherlock Holmes could handle the crop circles.

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He has his arm tied behind his back, I think.

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When you go to the crop circles, here it is.

00:22:26 ► §

The crop circle.

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Mysterious, unearthly, portending, who knows what.

00:22:33 ► §

And what else is there?

00:22:35 ► §

Well, the press, and the sightseers, and yourself,

00:22:43 ► §

and an extraordinary number of Japanese tourists.

00:22:49 ► §

Now,

00:22:50 ► §

Economics.

00:22:51 ► §

You’re getting close.

00:22:55 ► §

The Japanese press has followed the crop circle phenomenon

00:23:01 ► §

more avidly than any other press in the world outside of England.

00:23:05 ► §

Every new crop circle, it appears, photographs and discussion. It is huge in

00:23:12 ► §

Japan. Japan, they’re obsessed with this stuff. I think that what might be going

00:23:18 ► §

on, this is certainly a lot more likely than extraterrestrials or telluric forces.

00:23:26 ► §

Do you all know what MISI is?

00:23:28 ► §

It’s the Ministry of Trade and Industry.

00:23:31 ► §

It’s this enormous organization in Japan

00:23:35 ► §

which coordinates technological development and marketing.

00:23:39 ► §

It’s what we’re talking about when we say Japan incorporated.

00:23:44 ► §

I think that this is a midi research project,

00:23:49 ► §

and that these Japanese tourists,

00:23:52 ► §

which are ever-present at these sites,

00:23:55 ► §

some of them are drawn from a centuries-old tradition

00:24:00 ► §

of ninja stem snappers,

00:24:04 ► §

who, at a given signal,

00:24:07 ► §

are able to hurl away their nikons, rush into the corn,

00:24:12 ► §

and in a matter of a few minutes create these things,

00:24:16 ► §

then put their cameras back on and their sunglasses back on

00:24:20 ► §

and take up their deep cover as Japanese tourists.

00:24:25 ► §

Now, why would NITI do such a thing?

00:24:28 ► §

What’s in it for them?

00:24:31 ► §

It’s a semiotics project.

00:24:33 ► §

They are studying the impact of symbols on the Western mind.

00:24:40 ► §

The closest thing to these crop circles, if you look at a complete encyclopedia of them,

00:24:47 ► §

are the pottery marks made by master potters in medieval Japan on their ceramics.

00:24:55 ► §

Almost all of the crop circles, except the frivolous ones,

00:25:00 ► §

like, for instance, how about the fact that the symbol of the seriologist

00:25:06 ► §

magazine was done

00:25:08 ► §

in one of these things

00:25:09 ► §

yeah

00:25:11 ► §

these things it’s got humor

00:25:14 ► §

behind it

00:25:16 ► §

I mean it’s a

00:25:18 ► §

grand silliness of some sort

00:25:20 ► §

I’m willing to be proven wrong

00:25:22 ► §

I grappled with it

00:25:24 ► §

like everybody else for

00:25:25 ► §

six months, but the

00:25:27 ► §

density of flakiness

00:25:29 ► §

around it is incredible.

00:25:32 ► §

And the number of people whose private

00:25:33 ► §

agendas are being served

00:25:36 ► §

by this. I mean,

00:25:37 ► §

if it were happening north of Hudson

00:25:40 ► §

Bay, there’d be

00:25:41 ► §

no money in it. You have to be

00:25:43 ► §

able to drive there from central London

00:25:46 ► §

in order for it to work. Well, then people always say, well, but it’s happening all over

00:25:51 ► §

the world, my good man, haven’t you heard? Show me. Show me. It’s not happening all over

00:25:59 ► §

the world. Some clumsy attempts appeared in Kentucky, and there was something in Germany,

00:26:08 ► §

and so forth and so on.

00:26:09 ► §

But it’s really hair-raising to be among these people

00:26:16 ► §

and to see how uncommitted to finding out what it is they are

00:26:25 ► §

and how totally committed they are to preserving it from rational inspection.

00:26:31 ► §

They don’t want to talk about, you know,

00:26:34 ► §

any alternative other than whatever the pet theory of the week is about how it’s happening.

00:26:41 ► §

Now, I see it as part of the ingression into novelty.

00:26:46 ► §

Things are going to get weirder and weirder.

00:26:49 ► §

There’s no doubt about that.

00:26:51 ► §

But it doesn’t mean that there is a conscious extraterrestrial agency.

00:26:57 ► §

I mean, I find it pretty weird that there are 500 women

00:27:00 ► §

who think they have fetuses removed from their bodies by extraterrestrials.

00:27:07 ► §

That’s so weird

00:27:08 ► §

that suggesting

00:27:10 ► §

that it’s true seems

00:27:12 ► §

a little like overkill to me.

00:27:15 ► §

I mean, what is going

00:27:16 ► §

on that would make a woman

00:27:18 ► §

do that sort of thing?

00:27:21 ► §

There’s always

00:27:22 ► §

if you’re a careful

00:27:24 ► §

observer of one of these things there’s always, if you’re a careful observer

00:27:25 ► §

of one of these things,

00:27:27 ► §

there’s always, Jacques Vallée wrote about this,

00:27:29 ► §

a residuum of absurdity

00:27:31 ► §

that is suppressed by the witness

00:27:35 ► §

because the witness knows

00:27:37 ► §

that if they told the whole story,

00:27:40 ► §

their story is not credible.

00:27:43 ► §

This is called, you know,

00:27:44 ► §

the built- in absurdity

00:27:46 ► §

of these paranormal

00:27:48 ► §

things and when somebody tells you

00:27:50 ► §

a story about a UFO encounter

00:27:53 ► §

that does not have

00:27:54 ► §

this element of self contradicting

00:27:57 ► §

absurdity in it

00:27:58 ► §

they’re manipulating the evidence

00:28:01 ► §

to make it seem more

00:28:02 ► §

woo woo woo

00:28:04 ► §

I think

00:28:04 ► §

and I’m not the evidence to make it seem more woo-woo-woo, I think.

00:28:16 ► §

And I’m not a rationalist except, well, I’ve seen things that violated the laws of physics.

00:28:19 ► §

I believe the laws of physics can be violated.

00:28:24 ► §

I believe there may well be extraterrestrials somewhere in the universe.

00:28:30 ► §

Do you believe the Vonage manuscripts may have something to do with some type of alien intelligence?

00:28:34 ► §

No, I think the Vonage manuscript is a solved problem and that this guy Leo Levertov’s translation is correct.

00:28:39 ► §

What we found was, you know, it was a catheterite manual for the dying.

00:28:46 ► §

That’s much more exciting than trying to claim it as a book from another dimension,

00:28:52 ► §

because now we gain an insight into what catheterism was really about.

00:28:58 ► §

I think there is a residuum of the irrational and the paranormal, but these things like flying saucers

00:29:09 ► §

and Atlantis and the crop circles,

00:29:14 ► §

they’re like viruses upon the healthy body of language.

00:29:19 ► §

You know, there’s something wrong with language

00:29:22 ► §

and communication

00:29:23 ► §

because it’s never as you imagine it’s going to be.

00:29:29 ► §

And people are being sold a phenomenon that if they were to go,

00:29:35 ► §

they would discover that aspects of it were suppressed or misrepresented.

00:29:40 ► §

The people who are dealing with the cross circles are having a great time.

00:29:44 ► §

the people who are dealing with the cross circles are having a great time it’s the longest drinking party on record in that part of england i guess i should say this

00:29:51 ► §

i know it’s a bummer to have your favorite weird thing dumped on but my technique which i recommend recommend to you is don’t believe anything. If you believe in something, you are automatically

00:30:11 ► §

precluded from believing its opposite. Therefore, you have given up a portion of your freedom,

00:30:19 ► §

and freedom is the dearest thing we’ve got. You don’t have to believe anything.

00:30:26 ► §

You can just provisionally work your way through stuff.

00:30:30 ► §

And then probe the edges.

00:30:36 ► §

The edges will satisfy.

00:30:40 ► §

I think that the proper way to contact the other

00:30:45 ► §

is with hard-headed rationalism exercised under weird conditions.

00:30:52 ► §

I went to India, visited some of these yoga people and accomplished things.

00:31:01 ► §

I’m telling you, for my money, it was hokum.

00:31:04 ► §

saints, I’m telling you, for my money, it was hokum.

00:31:16 ► §

It was, there was an ulterior agenda, either having the wish to relieve you of your cash or to violate some body cavity.

00:31:19 ► §

That was the ulterior agenda.

00:31:23 ► §

When I went to the Amazon with the same attitude of skepticism

00:31:27 ► §

and talked to the shamans there,

00:31:31 ► §

they delivered the goods.

00:31:34 ► §

If somebody…

00:31:35 ► §

So you just investigate these things.

00:31:40 ► §

And the key question is, what can you show me?

00:31:44 ► §

If they’ve got it, they can show it.

00:31:48 ► §

There’s no mumbo-jumbo around the real thing.

00:31:52 ► §

But if they say, oh, well, you know,

00:31:55 ► §

the tape recordings miraculously erased themselves last night.

00:32:01 ► §

Or we’ll show you, but you have to sweep up around the ashram for a dozen years

00:32:07 ► §

to prove you’re worthy

00:32:08 ► §

or, you know, you are not worthy.

00:32:12 ► §

That’s the one where you head for the door.

00:32:15 ► §

You are not worthy.

00:32:17 ► §

The real thing is the real thing, for crying out loud.

00:32:23 ► §

It can be displayed. It doesn’t require this weird, fuzzy relationship

00:32:30 ► §

of worth and insight and so forth and so on. And that’s how I got to psychedelics. Psychedelics

00:32:40 ► §

work. If you think that I’m bullshitting you, go home and take five grams of mushrooms in silent

00:32:48 ► §

darkness and then we’ll talk. That’s the sine qua non. But it’ll work on demand. I’m not saying

00:32:59 ► §

and wait 40 years or purify yourself or get your aura stitched up or any of the rest of it, it’ll work.

00:33:08 ► §

It’ll blow your mind to shreds. It’s real. This other stuff is just, you know, all these gurus,

00:33:16 ► §

they need to find honest work. They need to join the rest of us in contemplating the mystery of

00:33:23 ► §

reality. They don’t know what they’re talking about.

00:33:26 ► §

If they knew what they were talking about,

00:33:27 ► §

they wouldn’t have to shuffle the deck

00:33:30 ► §

when you’re out of the room.

00:33:32 ► §

And that’s what’s going on.

00:33:35 ► §

Somebody must be outraged

00:33:37 ► §

and terribly disappointed.

00:33:39 ► §

Yeah.

00:33:39 ► §

Getting back to the DMT.

00:33:42 ► §

Yeah.

00:33:43 ► §

Yeah.

00:33:41 ► §

They’re getting back to the DMT.

00:33:41 ► §

Oh.

00:33:43 ► §

Yeah.

00:33:45 ► §

Well, no.

00:33:47 ► §

That’s not so bad.

00:33:52 ► §

Do you have the same experience each time you take it under similar conditions?

00:33:55 ► §

Do other people report the same things, the same teaching machines?

00:33:58 ► §

And how does it relate to near-death experience?

00:34:00 ► §

Okay.

00:34:02 ► §

In the order.

00:34:07 ► §

Yes, I do have the same experience each time I take it.

00:34:08 ► §

Did they say nice to see you again?

00:34:13 ► §

They say you’ve sent so many, but you come so rarely.

00:34:17 ► §

And then the more interesting question,

00:34:19 ► §

do other people see it?

00:34:20 ► §

Do you get a connection?

00:34:22 ► §

Yeah, do I get a connection?

00:34:25 ► §

Do other people see it?

00:34:30 ► §

What I’ve thought about this question a lot,

00:34:32 ► §

because it’s a question of communication.

00:34:35 ► §

If they saw it, could they tell me? If they told me in their language,

00:34:38 ► §

would I understand what they were telling me?

00:34:41 ► §

And what I’ve decided is that the experience is an archetype. It’s the archetype

00:34:49 ► §

of the circus. Why? Don’t ask me why. I don’t know why. But for instance, I’ve listened to many,

00:34:59 ► §

many people talk about their DMT experiences and inevitably this is the box into which it will fit.

00:35:08 ► §

I gave it to a woman once up in Washington,

00:35:12 ► §

an anthropologist.

00:35:14 ► §

It was a sub-threshold dose because she coughed.

00:35:17 ► §

I could tell she didn’t get it.

00:35:20 ► §

And when she came down, she said,

00:35:22 ► §

it was the saddest carnival I’ve ever been to.

00:35:28 ► §

She said there were no, the rides weren’t open.

00:35:33 ► §

The tents were shuttered and there were little gum papers blowing between the things, the stands.

00:35:42 ► §

The circus is an interesting archetype because it has a number of facets. First of all, you have the three central rings under the big top. That’s the dome. And in the central ring, there’s light and color and clouds. Remember that Maria Sabina called the mushrooms the little clowns.

00:36:07 ► §

And these clowns, the circus is for children.

00:36:12 ► §

And when you take DMT,

00:36:14 ► §

one of the things I didn’t mention in my description of it

00:36:17 ► §

is you have a peculiar impression of your own body geometry.

00:36:22 ► §

Your head seems to be very large in relationship to your torso.

00:36:27 ► §

You are, in fact, an infant in some sense. You become a child. This leads to thinking

00:36:37 ► §

about the 52nd fragment of Heraclisis, which says the Aeon is a child that play with colored balls.

00:36:46 ► §

Nobody knows what this saying means, but it’s persisted for about 3,000 years,

00:36:52 ► §

so it must mean something.

00:36:55 ► §

But outside the three rings, there’s another aspect to the circus.

00:37:01 ► §

It is spun into Erosos because above the center ring and up near the top of the

00:37:08 ► §

dome is the beautiful woman with long blonde hair and the tiny skimpy spangled costume and

00:37:17 ► §

very complicated narrative type dream and the alarm rings,

00:37:29 ► §

and by the time your feet hit the floor and you stagger into the shower,

00:37:30 ► §

it’s gone.

00:37:33 ► §

It’s not partially gone.

00:37:34 ► §

It’s all gone.

00:37:38 ► §

And all you can say is, I was having this amazing dream.

00:37:40 ► §

I have no idea what it was. The DMT thing can leave you just that quickly. And also, and I think this has a bearing

00:37:48 ► §

on this, they have studied the production of DMT in normal metabolism, and it peaks in normal human

00:37:57 ► §

beings between 3 and 4 a.m. This is when the deep dreaming is going on. This is when the intense REM states are being experienced.

00:38:08 ► §

So I think that where the dead and the living get together is in the dream time.

00:38:15 ► §

Australian Aborigines have been trying to tell us this for as long as we would listen.

00:38:31 ► §

this for as long as we would listen. And also, a lot of people, it’s possible to repress it very, very quickly. I think, for instance, I’ve seen people, one way you can tell if

00:38:40 ► §

someone has really gotten a good DMT trip,

00:38:49 ► §

is they lay down, they become very still,

00:38:53 ► §

but if you look closely at their face with their eyes closed, you can see that their eyes are moving wildly underneath their closed eyelids.

00:39:00 ► §

This is because they’re in REM state,

00:39:02 ► §

and they are watching whatever it is they’re seeing.

00:39:08 ► §

They are looking at it.

00:39:10 ► §

I remember giving DMT to a person years and years ago,

00:39:16 ► §

a person who might have been a candidate for the description psychologically fragile,

00:39:27 ► §

description, psychologically fragile. And it was clear that she got it because she was a hash smoker and she took three or four enormous hits, laid down, her eyes were wildly rotating

00:39:35 ► §

around in her head. When she came out of it, said, what was it? Said, it was nothing. I

00:39:44 ► §

don’t remember anything. I don’t remember anything

00:39:46 ► §

at all. And furthermore, I don’t think I want to have anything more to do with it. And didn’t.

00:39:55 ► §

Well, I think that this is something that it only shows as much of it as you can stand.

00:40:04 ► §

It only shows as much of it as you can stand.

00:40:08 ► §

And some of us cannot stand much at all.

00:40:12 ► §

This occurs with psilocybin as well. I’ve had experiences with psilocybin where I’ve said to it after hours of hallucinations of one sort or another,

00:40:21 ► §

I finally say, you know, what I’m really interested in is your true essence.

00:40:28 ► §

Can you show me what you are for yourself rather than for me?

00:40:34 ► §

What are you for yourself?

00:40:36 ► §

Well, then it’s just like a cold wind blows through

00:40:40 ► §

and black velvet curtains begin to rise.

00:40:44 ► §

And after 30 seconds of this you just say uh that’s

00:40:50 ► §

enough of what you are for yourself because you can tell it’s headed in a direction you can’t

00:40:57 ► §

tolerate at all you can’t stand i have a friend who said of psilocybin, he said, my goal, every time I take it, is to stand more of what it really is.

00:41:10 ► §

And this is why it’s incredibly kind to beginners.

00:41:15 ► §

Beginners basically need have no fear if they will regulate the dose reasonably.

00:41:21 ► §

Because it wants to recruit you.

00:41:28 ► §

reasonably because it wants to recruit you and so it says you know here it is whatever you wanted aliens outer space elves erotic imagery here it is doesn’t this feel safe see we’re not so bad

00:41:37 ► §

we’re your friend we’re not like all the others come Come back soon. It’s after you gain familiarity with it where it says,

00:41:48 ► §

you know, there are aspects to me that we’ve never really talked about.

00:41:54 ► §

Hell yeah.

00:41:55 ► §

Like what?

00:41:55 ► §

Well, like this.

00:41:56 ► §

Oh, no.

00:42:01 ► §

Let’s go back to the Disney loop.

00:42:00 ► §

No, no.

00:42:03 ► §

Let’s go back to the Disney loop.

00:42:07 ► §

How close is the DMT that you smoke compared to the brain DMT that we all have running through?

00:42:12 ► §

Is there a difference, like NN dimethyltryptamine,

00:42:15 ► §

and what’s in our brain?

00:42:16 ► §

No, no, it’s the same thing.

00:42:17 ► §

Exactly the same.

00:42:18 ► §

It’s the same thing.

00:42:19 ► §

DMT occurs in two forms, the salt and the hydrochloride.

00:42:26 ► §

And both forms occur…

00:42:30 ► §

Well, no, I’m not sure that both forms occur in metabolism,

00:42:34 ► §

but the only difference is that one is water-soluble and the other is…

00:42:38 ► §

So basically, then again, we are holding, then.

00:42:41 ► §

I mean, if DMT is illegal, then what we have in our brain running through us is considered illegal.

00:42:47 ► §

Yeah, we are potentially bustable.

00:42:49 ► §

You know, in light of what I said, one of the most interesting frontiers that the New Age has brought forward

00:42:57 ► §

that I think bears more serious study than the channelings of Amenhotep’s barber and all that, is

00:43:07 ► §

lucid dreaming. Lucid dreaming, if it

00:43:11 ► §

I don’t know whether those people, I don’t know those people personally,

00:43:15 ► §

I don’t know what their motivation is, but if it’s true

00:43:19 ► §

that you can take control of the dream state, then this

00:43:23 ► §

would be something worth spending even a lot of time on.

00:43:28 ► §

Because the dream state is more like the tryptamine geography than anything else.

00:43:37 ► §

One of the most fascinating things about DMT that should certainly be mentioned,

00:43:42 ► §

as long as we’re exhausting myself on this subject

00:43:45 ► §

is once you’ve had DMT,

00:43:50 ► §

once you’ve smoked it and this experience has occurred,

00:43:54 ► §

you can have a dream years later

00:43:58 ► §

in which you’re with a bunch of people

00:44:01 ► §

and something’s going on

00:44:03 ► §

and you enter the atrium of the Hotel California

00:44:07 ► §

and you take a floor to the basement or something

00:44:10 ► §

and then you’re in a room with people

00:44:12 ► §

and someone whips out a little glass pipe

00:44:14 ► §

and you smoke it and it happens.

00:44:18 ► §

It doesn’t sort of happen.

00:44:21 ► §

It happens 100%.

00:44:24 ► §

That means that’s exciting data, because that means that we

00:44:32 ► §

have the wherewithal to trigger this experience in ourselves on the natch, at least while we’re asleep, and I presume that with sufficient patience and subtlety

00:44:48 ► §

and biofeedback equipment,

00:44:51 ► §

and I don’t know what you would take,

00:44:52 ► §

but if you spend a million dollars,

00:44:55 ► §

you could probably deliver it on time,

00:44:57 ► §

we can trigger this most intense of all hallucinogenic ecstasies,

00:45:04 ► §

most boundary-dissolving of all possible human experiences,

00:45:09 ► §

on the natch.

00:45:10 ► §

But we have to somehow find our way to the button.

00:45:14 ► §

And apparently, in normal waking consciousness,

00:45:18 ► §

it isn’t there.

00:45:19 ► §

I spend a lot of time,

00:45:21 ► §

I mean, I didn’t mean to be so flip about the UFOs.

00:45:24 ► §

I’ve spent years trying to think about the UFOs and studied all the theories.

00:45:30 ► §

One that I still may be part of the truth is maybe it is so that we generate and sequester DMT somewhere in our brain,

00:45:46 ► §

and under unusual situations,

00:45:51 ► §

this sequestered DMT can suddenly be dumped into the brain fluid,

00:45:58 ► §

or into the bloodstream,

00:46:01 ► §

and then you have a DMT experience

00:46:06 ► §

or some kind of quasi-DMT-like experience.

00:46:10 ► §

Because I read an interesting paper a few years ago.

00:46:14 ► §

I can’t remember the name of the guy who wrote it.

00:46:16 ► §

It was an anthropological paper.

00:46:18 ► §

It was called The Felt Presence in Unusual Environments.

00:46:24 ► §

And it talked about how it is apparently a basic trait of human beings

00:46:29 ► §

to when in the wilderness, especially unfamiliar wilderness,

00:46:36 ► §

people sense something there.

00:46:40 ► §

The felt presence in unusual environments. Well, it may be that…

00:46:47 ► §

Now, imagine if you’re in the wilderness

00:46:51 ► §

in a situation not entirely familiar to you

00:46:55 ► §

so that you’re edging up toward this felt presence thing

00:46:59 ► §

and suddenly DMT stored in your brain

00:47:03 ► §

is for some reason,

00:47:05 ► §

perhaps a pathological reason that it shouldn’t happen,

00:47:09 ► §

but it’s shunted into your brain.

00:47:12 ► §

Well, now suddenly you feel there’s something here,

00:47:16 ► §

there’s someone here, there’s someone with me.

00:47:18 ► §

The hair on the back of your neck stands up.

00:47:21 ► §

And then you see coming towards you a disturbance in your perceptual field.

00:47:29 ► §

Now, you’re supposed to be alone. There isn’t supposed to be a disturbance in your perceptual

00:47:36 ► §

input, but there is. You are alarmed. It may be dangerous. You must identify what this is.

00:47:45 ► §

While every one of us carries around inside us

00:47:48 ► §

a cultural inventory of what weird events might possibly be.

00:47:55 ► §

If you’re a medieval peasant farming the hills of Tuscany

00:47:59 ► §

and this happens,

00:48:02 ► §

you immediately conclude that it’s the virgin, or it’s an angel.

00:48:08 ► §

And lo and behold, as it comes closer, it clothes itself in heavenly raiment,

00:48:14 ► §

and it is the virgin.

00:48:16 ► §

And so you are encountering the virgin.

00:48:18 ► §

Well, now, what if you’re a Southern California steeped in the religious faiths of Malibu,

00:48:26 ► §

and this happens to you,

00:48:27 ► §

you will conclude,

00:48:30 ► §

my God, it’s a UFO.

00:48:32 ► §

I mean, haven’t you been with people who every airplane that flies over

00:48:36 ► §

they’re willing to proclaim is an extraterrestrial intervention?

00:48:41 ► §

It’s because this explanation lies very close to the surface. When we

00:48:46 ► §

don’t know what something is,

00:48:48 ► §

we want to know.

00:48:50 ► §

We want to English it.

00:48:52 ► §

We want to name it, and we

00:48:53 ► §

grasp the nearest thing at

00:48:55 ► §

hand. It’s very important

00:48:57 ► §

to avoid this reflex

00:49:00 ► §

in order to see what is it

00:49:01 ► §

really? What is it really?

00:49:04 ► §

Let it be what it is.

00:49:06 ► §

Yeah.

00:49:07 ► §

Four small points.

00:49:08 ► §

On that one,

00:49:09 ► §

I noticed I did a book in 73 on flatware.

00:49:13 ► §

And I interviewed perhaps 500 people.

00:49:15 ► §

And in a large number,

00:49:16 ► §

they would start with it.

00:49:18 ► §

It’s a traditional poetic term.

00:49:20 ► §

It’s called negative parallelism,

00:49:22 ► §

where you identify, negate, identify, negate.

00:49:25 ► §

It looked like a low-flying plane.

00:49:27 ► §

No, it was too low.

00:49:28 ► §

It looked like a semi with its out-of-order lights on.

00:49:31 ► §

And only as the third or fourth identification,

00:49:34 ► §

which is traditional to classic tropes of the 13th century,

00:49:38 ► §

would they identify it as a C-Ref.

00:49:40 ► §

Point one.

00:49:42 ► §

Another one, the strangest one one was an old lady in Texas

00:49:45 ► §

and I said

00:49:45 ► §

how did you know

00:49:46 ► §

it was a UFO

00:49:46 ► §

and she said

00:49:47 ► §

because it had

00:49:47 ► §

UFO printed

00:49:48 ► §

on the undercarriage

00:49:49 ► §

I like that

00:49:50 ► §

the next one

00:49:53 ► §

was a judge

00:49:54 ► §

I went down

00:49:54 ► §

to the

00:49:54 ► §

Hickson and

00:49:56 ► §

Parker

00:49:56 ► §

famous case

00:49:57 ► §

I’ve got to

00:49:58 ► §

see them again

00:49:58 ► §

because I want

00:49:59 ► §

to see how

00:49:59 ► §

they’ve done

00:50:00 ► §

very interesting

00:50:01 ► §

and the judge

00:50:02 ► §

and clerk of courts

00:50:03 ► §

and two other people

00:50:04 ► §

were riding home during that period,

00:50:06 ► §

and two of them in the car saw a UFO and the others couldn’t see it.

00:50:11 ► §

So let’s say one saw it because of an antique drop at some point.

00:50:15 ► §

Another was his clerk and decided he’d better see it.

00:50:17 ► §

And the other two were just strange.

00:50:21 ► §

Last point.

00:50:23 ► §

There’s a guy called Orfeo Angelucci

00:50:25 ► §

who was an early

00:50:27 ► §

contactee

00:50:28 ► §

who

00:50:29 ► §

gave me a useful handle

00:50:31 ► §

on kind of

00:50:32 ► §

talk about working the edges

00:50:34 ► §

he was out

00:50:35 ► §

and he met the captain of the ship

00:50:36 ► §

and the ship’s captain

00:50:37 ► §

said during the interview

00:50:38 ► §

would you go

00:50:39 ► §

and get me

00:50:40 ► §

a bottle of soda pop

00:50:41 ► §

and then they went on

00:50:43 ► §

with their event so I began looking for what I called soda pop. And then they went on with their event.

00:50:45 ► §

So I began looking for what I called soda pop factors,

00:50:48 ► §

where there was an element or more than one element

00:50:50 ► §

absolutely unrelated to the story

00:50:53 ► §

that was somehow a touch of human…

00:50:59 ► §

An intrusion.

00:51:01 ► §

Intrusion, yes.

00:51:01 ► §

A necessary intrusion.

00:51:03 ► §

Well, let me say one thing about it.

00:51:05 ► §

You don’t even have to be cynical to the point of believing in the Pascadula situation

00:51:12 ► §

that the second guy saw the UFO because he was the clerk.

00:51:17 ► §

These drug molecules have resonant rings.

00:51:24 ► §

They are aromatics. have resonant rings.

00:51:26 ► §

They are aromatics.

00:51:31 ► §

It may be that there’s a pheromone thing happening here and that a state of mind can be transferred

00:51:34 ► §

from one person to another through body odor.

00:51:39 ► §

This may be how the states of telepathy are achieved on psilocybin

00:51:46 ► §

because you do smell

00:51:48 ► §

funny and this

00:51:49 ► §

smell may be more than funny

00:51:52 ► §

it may be carrying

00:51:53 ► §

information

00:51:55 ► §

there’s a very interesting phenomenon

00:51:58 ► §

that is well documented

00:52:00 ► §

called allofrenia

00:52:01 ► §

do you all know what allofrenia is?

00:52:04 ► §

allofrenia is when a friend of yours gets put in the hospital for schizophrenia

00:52:10 ► §

and you, being a good Samaritan, decide to take them a box of candy

00:52:16 ► §

and during the visit to your friend you behave so bizarrely

00:52:21 ► §

that you don’t get to leave the hospital.

00:52:24 ► §

Allophronia. behave so bizarrely that you don’t get to leave the hospital.

00:52:25 ► §

Alephrenia.

00:52:30 ► §

Schizophrenic behavior on the part of non-schizophrenics in the presence of schizophrenics.

00:52:33 ► §

I’ve experienced this.

00:52:35 ► §

I had a friend, I visited him in the hospital,

00:52:39 ► §

and the way, here’s how it works, it’s really interesting.

00:52:42 ► §

I visited my friend in the hospital.

00:52:47 ► §

He was nutty as a fruitcake.

00:52:49 ► §

But he was my friend, and he was talking 90 to nothing,

00:52:54 ► §

so I wanted to communicate with him.

00:52:57 ► §

So instead of saying to every single statement he made,

00:53:02 ► §

I don’t understand you, you’re nuts,

00:53:05 ► §

that makes no sense whatsoever.

00:53:08 ► §

I began trying to agree with him,

00:53:14 ► §

trying to understand him,

00:53:17 ► §

and then it sort of got the momentum of a game going

00:53:21 ► §

where he would say, you know, I’m really Sirhan Sirhan,

00:53:26 ► §

and I would say, yes, but your teacup is on backwards.

00:53:31 ► §

And a doctor walking into this situation

00:53:34 ► §

would have a hard time telling who’s nuts and who’s not.

00:53:38 ► §

Well, was that because I decided to play along with him,

00:53:42 ► §

or why did I decide?

00:53:44 ► §

There was an ambiance that gave permission for erratic, irrational, peculiar behavior.

00:53:52 ► §

And I suppose if you were borderline schizophrenic in that situation,

00:53:56 ► §

that’s all it would take to push you over the edge.

00:54:00 ► §

Do you think, I know you’re probably thinking about that Wiener CCM stuff.

00:54:04 ► §

Yeah.

00:54:04 ► §

You told me about that yourself.

00:54:06 ► §

But I finally just recently read all those papers again.

00:54:11 ► §

And I think you’re really right that there is some sub,

00:54:16 ► §

it’s what he calls the olfactory subconscious,

00:54:19 ► §

that there is perception below what is olfactorily normally perceived. And this has found information transformation,

00:54:29 ► §

messages that are perceived and stuff.

00:54:31 ► §

Yeah, I think that there could be something to it.

00:54:33 ► §

Yeah, people who study human behavior have noted that

00:54:38 ► §

when a person enters a room full of people,

00:54:43 ► §

unconsciously, the first thing they do is

00:54:47 ► §

they take a deep breath what that’s doing is giving you a whole bunch of

00:54:53 ► §

information and you can tell you can say I walked into the room and the vibes

00:54:58 ► §

were terrible because Herbert had just slugged Alice three minutes before and everybody was freaking out about it,

00:55:06 ► §

or I just walked into the room

00:55:09 ► §

and I could tell something weird was happening,

00:55:12 ► §

but I couldn’t figure out what it was,

00:55:13 ► §

and what it was was Alice and Fred heard me coming,

00:55:16 ► §

so he took his hand out of her blouse as I opened the door.

00:55:20 ► §

This kind of thing.

00:55:21 ► §

In other words, information that is coming in

00:55:25 ► §

through the olfactory senses.

00:55:28 ► §

There are psychiatrists who diagnose schizophrenia

00:55:31 ► §

by what they call the sniff test.

00:55:35 ► §

You know, this is one of the most subtle and difficult

00:55:38 ► §

of all mental dysfunctions to diagnose.

00:55:41 ► §

And some people just lean over your anterior font now

00:55:45 ► §

and take a hit and say,

00:55:47 ► §

him to therapy, her to release, and him to medication

00:55:52 ► §

because they are confident enough that the smell will do it.

00:55:56 ► §

There’s even one theory of schizophrenia

00:55:58 ► §

that holds that what schizophrenia is

00:56:02 ► §

is a dysfunctional pheromone system,

00:56:10 ► §

so that you, who are the schizophrenic, your real problem is that you smell funny, not stink.

00:56:20 ► §

People aren’t aware of that, but it’s that there’s something about you that causes people to treat you strangely.

00:56:30 ► §

And you reacting to being treated strangely by people get weirder.

00:56:36 ► §

And they reacting to you getting weirder treat you more and more strangely.

00:56:42 ► §

So what you have here is a feedback cycle

00:56:45 ► §

that ends with nets being dropped over you

00:56:48 ► §

and you taken away.

00:56:49 ► §

But the original cause was

00:56:52 ► §

that you were giving off a chemical

00:56:55 ► §

which made people treat you in a way

00:56:58 ► §

that caused you to react to them adversely

00:57:00 ► §

and that started the cycle going.

00:57:03 ► §

Or they say that you perceived olfactory

00:57:06 ► §

hallucinations. Not that

00:57:07 ► §

you just smelled weirdly, but that

00:57:09 ► §

you perceived. Oh, that you were

00:57:11 ► §

misinterpreting incoming olfactory

00:57:13 ► §

That’s right. There’s a whole section where you’re talking about

00:57:15 ► §

olfactory hallucinations.

00:57:18 ► §

The reason we’re talking so much

00:57:19 ► §

about this is because if you look at these

00:57:22 ► §

pheromone molecules

00:57:23 ► §

and lay them next to these

00:57:25 ► §

drug molecules, it’s all one family. These are all small, planar molecules. There’s even

00:57:32 ► §

one area where it comes together pretty spectacularly. That is, in the pineal gland of human beings,

00:57:40 ► §

there’s a great deal of, like, something like 12% of the brain’s energy is being channeled into the pineal gland.

00:57:51 ► §

Well, if you know anything about evolutionary theory, you know that you don’t waste energy in unnecessary functions or you become extinct.

00:58:02 ► §

So there’s a reason why 12% of the brain’s energy

00:58:05 ► §

is being channeled into the pineal gland,

00:58:08 ► §

though we don’t know what it is.

00:58:10 ► §

Well, then when you look at what’s going on in the pineal,

00:58:14 ► §

a neurocompound called adenoglomerotropane

00:58:19 ► §

is being transduced by light into melatonin.

00:58:24 ► §

Well, this compound, adenoglomerotropine,

00:58:27 ► §

in ordinary biochemical nomenclature,

00:58:30 ► §

is 6-methoxy-tetrahydroharmalan.

00:58:34 ► §

It’s a near relative of the compounds in the ayahuasca.

00:58:39 ► §

Well, so then a reasonable question is to ask,

00:58:41 ► §

well, then what’s happening to all this melatonin

00:58:44 ► §

that is being produced in the pineal?

00:58:46 ► §

Well, then if you tag it and follow its path through the metabolic system,

00:58:54 ► §

you discover that the stuff is making its way quite directly to the surface of the skin.

00:59:02 ► §

And then it’s volatilizing away. What’s happening here? A hallucinogenic

00:59:09 ► §

molecule is being turned into a and in the very center of the brain and this pheromone is then

00:59:17 ► §

hurrying on its way to the surface of the skin where it volatilizes off and affects the ambient social environment

00:59:26 ► §

in which you’re

00:59:27 ► §

living.

00:59:27 ► §

This begins to

00:59:28 ► §

look like a

00:59:30 ► §

system of

00:59:31 ► §

neurotransmitters

00:59:32 ► §

and

00:59:32 ► §

neuroregulators

00:59:34 ► §

that operate

00:59:34 ► §

not only within

00:59:35 ► §

the body but

00:59:36 ► §

on the surface

00:59:37 ► §

of the body

00:59:38 ► §

and in the

00:59:38 ► §

ambient social

00:59:39 ► §

environment.

00:59:41 ► §

Yeah.

00:59:42 ► §

I don’t know if

00:59:43 ► §

this relates to

00:59:43 ► §

I’m not a chemist

00:59:44 ► §

or anything like that. There was this stuff in the world called tryptophan. Right. I don’t know if this relates to, I’m not a chemist or anything like

00:59:45 ► §

that, there was

00:59:45 ► §

this stuff on

00:59:46 ► §

the market

00:59:46 ► §

called tryptophan,

00:59:47 ► §

I believe.

00:59:48 ► §

Right, it’s

00:59:48 ► §

an amino acid.

00:59:50 ► §

Amino acid,

00:59:50 ► §

and it was

00:59:51 ► §

taken off the

00:59:51 ► §

market not

00:59:52 ► §

too long

00:59:52 ► §

ago.

00:59:53 ► §

Yes.

00:59:54 ► §

And supposedly

00:59:56 ► §

it made you

00:59:56 ► §

dream, your

00:59:57 ► §

dreams more

00:59:58 ► §

clear or more

00:59:59 ► §

vivid, something

01:00:00 ► §

like that.

01:00:00 ► §

Well, it’s the

01:00:01 ► §

precursor for

01:00:02 ► §

DMT.

01:00:04 ► §

If you were

01:00:04 ► §

to make, if you wanted to make DMT in the laboratory,

01:00:09 ► §

tryptophan would be one of the pathways that you could start from.

01:00:14 ► §

The reason tryptophan was taken off the market,

01:00:17 ► §

there was a lot of confusion initially,

01:00:20 ► §

but it was a poisoned batch.

01:00:22 ► §

It turned out all of the world’s tryptophan

01:00:25 ► §

was coming from one enormous stainless steel vat near Nagoya,

01:00:30 ► §

and that it had been infected by a bacterium.

01:00:34 ► §

And so, you know, we’re stuck with the fact that tryptophan

01:00:38 ► §

will probably never again be available in health food stores.

01:00:43 ► §

But it wasn’t tryptophan that was the coke

01:00:45 ► §

i knew someone whose life was completely messed up from the tryptophan from the poisoned tryptophan

01:00:53 ► §

from the poison so by taking a tryptophan then it caused bmt to be more well no saying it that way

01:01:01 ► §

is saying too much we don’t know that all we can say is tryptophan is an amino acid.

01:01:08 ► §

It’s used in the biosynthesis of many different compounds, including DMT.

01:01:15 ► §

DMT peaks when dream states are peaking,

01:01:19 ► §

and tryptophan does seem to induce deeper dreaming.

01:01:26 ► §

It’s a rational case.

01:01:28 ► §

You know, we could sit here,

01:01:30 ► §

sometime we could have a weekend

01:01:32 ► §

entirely devoted to thinking

01:01:34 ► §

of simple experiments

01:01:38 ► §

that could be done in the laboratory

01:01:40 ► §

with and without human beings

01:01:42 ► §

if only these things weren’t illegal.

01:01:45 ► §

I mean, there is so much to be learned and so little work being done

01:01:52 ► §

because it’s not sanctioned.

01:01:55 ► §

I mean, my brother is a pharmaceutical chemist, pharmacologist, plant physiologists, and his professional life is very touch and go

01:02:09 ► §

because he’s known to be a hallucinogen man.

01:02:13 ► §

And they don’t hire you, they don’t publish you,

01:02:17 ► §

they don’t fund you, they don’t want to know.

01:02:19 ► §

You have to be a very dedicated person

01:02:22 ► §

to stick with hallucinogenic chemistry

01:02:25 ► §

when you could get over into something else and make a lot of money.

01:02:29 ► §

So you don’t see a conspiracy then with the triple-spam being taken off the market

01:02:32 ► §

because it made dreams being more vivid?

01:02:36 ► §

You see it as just a bad batch?

01:02:37 ► §

I mean, I made the connection without just thinking that.

01:02:40 ► §

I’m not a conspiracist, but it seemed to me awfully funny

01:02:42 ► §

that that was taken off of the thing made by one batch

01:02:45 ► §

and that batch got tampered with or whatever.

01:02:48 ► §

Well, there may have been some form of hanky-panky,

01:02:51 ► §

but in all fairness, you know,

01:02:53 ► §

there are many approaches to the synthesis of DMT.

01:02:57 ► §

Indole is probably what most chemists would probably prefer to start from indole.

01:03:07 ► §

And indole is an industrial precursor used in so many hundreds of ways

01:03:14 ► §

that you could never push indole off the market.

01:03:17 ► §

You’d have to reinvent half the pharmaceutical industry.

01:03:21 ► §

But where I’m going with that is,

01:03:23 ► §

I’m talking about just being able to get it

01:03:25 ► §

from the health food store.

01:03:26 ► §

Here it was tryptophan

01:03:27 ► §

and it made your dreams more vivid.

01:03:30 ► §

I don’t know if that’s what people are using it for

01:03:32 ► §

and I think it’s so,

01:03:33 ► §

but here it was.

01:03:34 ► §

So maybe they felt that

01:03:36 ► §

people were dreaming too much

01:03:38 ► §

or they were having too vivid dreams.

01:03:41 ► §

Hey, we can’t have this anymore.

01:03:43 ► §

We’ve got to sort of get it off the market.

01:03:45 ► §

I think probably

01:03:46 ► §

as long as you’re asleep,

01:03:47 ► §

they’re fine about it.

01:03:50 ► §

It’s when you wake up

01:03:51 ► §

that they get nervous.

01:03:54 ► §

As long as you keep

01:03:55 ► §

your eyes closed

01:03:56 ► §

or you’re glued

01:03:57 ► §

to the boob tube,

01:03:58 ► §

they’re quite happy

01:03:59 ► §

to minimalize you,

01:04:01 ► §

marginalize you,

01:04:02 ► §

and make you larval.

01:04:05 ► §

Yeah.

01:04:06 ► §

I was thinking about this thing with the elves and so forth,

01:04:12 ► §

and I was also thinking about it in relationship to, you know,

01:04:16 ► §

let’s say you smoke DMT, you have the experience,

01:04:19 ► §

you can put the term elves on them or speculate that

01:04:22 ► §

what we have in various mythologies or thought

01:04:28 ► §

systems, elves, refers to that.

01:04:31 ► §

I was wondering what you think about other types of deities that people may encounter

01:04:38 ► §

in some sort of visionary experience, either with hallucinogens or not.

01:04:42 ► §

I mean, what do you make of that?

01:04:43 ► §

Do you have more of an archetypal interpretation, or do you think that they exist in some hyperdimensional

01:04:49 ► §

reality in some form? I’m just curious what you make of that.

01:04:55 ► §

I guess I have an archetypal interpretation. I recall from some book of Robert Anton Wilson’s, where he suggests,

01:05:05 ► §

he says you should pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary every day

01:05:13 ► §

and make offerings to her

01:05:16 ► §

and put up her picture until she appears.

01:05:21 ► §

Then switch to Shiva and do it till Shiva appears

01:05:25 ► §

then Mickey Mouse

01:05:27 ► §

and just keep doing this until you satisfy yourself

01:05:31 ► §

that none of these things are more real than any other

01:05:35 ► §

and that whatever their ontological status

01:05:38 ► §

they’re all equal in ontological status

01:05:42 ► §

apparently the human brain is far more malleable

01:05:48 ► §

than we can conceive of or imagine.

01:05:51 ► §

We become imprisoned within a language and an ideology,

01:05:56 ► §

and it literally becomes our reality.

01:06:00 ► §

And yet it isn’t our reality.

01:06:04 ► §

It’s just something provisional i’ve not had that experience

01:06:09 ► §

i prayed for years as a kid but perhaps the agam bite of inwit was already present in me and making

01:06:17 ► §

it impossible for me to succeed but in the case of the the elves there elves, there’s sort of a cultural archetype of the elves,

01:06:26 ► §

but at the same time you seem to be saying that there is a deeper reality that this is based on.

01:06:34 ► §

Well, and the DMT elves are a lot weirder than the Disney elves.

01:06:39 ► §

The Disney elves are really sanitized.

01:06:42 ► §

These things are pretty frightening in a way.

01:06:44 ► §

I mean, they are if you let yourself be frightened

01:06:47 ► §

because they’re, you can’t, they want,

01:06:51 ► §

well, how can I put it?

01:06:53 ► §

They play too rough.

01:06:56 ► §

They are not, they’re not mean,

01:07:01 ► §

but they’re not careful either.

01:07:03 ► §

It’s like hanging out with a gang, you know? As long as

01:07:08 ► §

you’re their friend, you really feel, aren’t I cool? Look who I’m hanging out with. But then you

01:07:14 ► §

realize if you said the wrong word or made the wrong move, everybody would turn and look at you

01:07:21 ► §

and just… I recently wrote the introduction for a new edition of evans vance

01:07:27 ► §

book the fairy faith in celtic countries and if you’re interested in elves this is the book to

01:07:34 ► §

read you all know who evans vance was he was the great tibetologist who but as a student at Cambridge in 1913, before he went to Tibet, he did his doctoral thesis.

01:07:48 ► §

In 1913, this was.

01:07:50 ► §

And he went around to Brittany and Wales and Ireland to the old, old people.

01:07:58 ► §

I don’t think he talked to anybody under 80.

01:08:01 ► §

And he said, tell me stories about fairies.

01:08:05 ► §

And he collected the most amazing stories about fairies and fairy encounters.

01:08:13 ► §

And I learned from rereading that book that, you know, the Christian notion of purgatory,

01:08:21 ► §

which is a place where you go that is neither heaven or hell, where you

01:08:25 ► §

do time for minor infractions and then you get moved on to heaven. This idea was created,

01:08:33 ► §

I always assumed that it was dreamed up by some bishops of Rome, some synod or something. It was dreamed up by St. Patrick to convert the pagan Irish, to convince them

01:08:48 ► §

that fairyland was part of the Christian man. And he was so successful in converting the

01:08:56 ► §

pagan Irish that when letters went back to Rome describing how he did it, purgatory became a general doctrine of the church,

01:09:06 ► §

and then it was used very successfully to convert the pagan Slavs.

01:09:11 ► §

So purgatory is fairyland dressed up in Christian terminology.

01:09:17 ► §

And what is the idea of fairyland?

01:09:21 ► §

It’s the idea that the dead live all around us, linger among us as disincarnate

01:09:30 ► §

souls, and the fairies that Evans Vance was describing were very ambiguous morally. I

01:09:42 ► §

mean, sometimes they would only sour the milk.

01:09:45 ► §

But, you know, their favorite concern

01:09:48 ► §

of fairies is

01:09:49 ► §

UFO

01:09:51 ► §

freaks pay attention

01:09:54 ► §

stealing babies.

01:09:56 ► §

That’s what fairies like

01:09:57 ► §

to do. I don’t know about surgically

01:10:00 ► §

ripping off fetuses. That

01:10:01 ► §

seems to be a modern touch.

01:10:04 ► §

But in Ireland, people in the countryside

01:10:06 ► §

do not leave babies, small babies,

01:10:09 ► §

unattended in their cribs for fear of fairy theft.

01:10:13 ► §

And the fairies substitute.

01:10:16 ► §

They don’t just leave an empty crib.

01:10:18 ► §

They leave a withered, strange little creature

01:10:22 ► §

that is supposed to fool the human beings

01:10:26 ► §

and whenever there is a child

01:10:28 ► §

born who is

01:10:31 ► §

wasting and

01:10:32 ► §

old looking and undersized

01:10:35 ► §

there’s always the

01:10:36 ► §

assumption that there was a healthy

01:10:38 ► §

baby there but now there’s been a

01:10:40 ► §

fairy switch

01:10:42 ► §

fairies

01:10:44 ► §

respond to riddlery.

01:10:46 ► §

This has to do with this thing about language

01:10:49 ► §

and the strange relationship of the Irish

01:10:52 ► §

to intoxication, fairies, and language

01:10:55 ► §

suggests that here we might have a restricted gene pool

01:10:59 ► §

that has somehow indemnified itself

01:11:02 ► §

in the direction of these peculiar concerns,

01:11:07 ► §

present company accepted.

01:11:09 ► §

What was the name of that book again?

01:11:11 ► §

The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries by Evans Vance.

01:11:17 ► §

…at least a couple of final points, which is, you know, what is this all good for?

01:11:24 ► §

I think what it’s good for,

01:11:26 ► §

I think the mystery that we’re making our way toward,

01:11:30 ► §

much more of which will be revealed later

01:11:34 ► §

as we live into the next 20 years,

01:11:38 ► §

is that we have lost connection to a very important part of reality,

01:11:48 ► §

which I call the Gaian mind,

01:11:52 ► §

but which I think is more popularly understood as the goddess,

01:11:58 ► §

goddess consciousness.

01:12:00 ► §

But the goddess is not as envisioned by, at Ephesus, you know, a woman studded with breasts.

01:12:10 ► §

The goddess is the living earth.

01:12:14 ► §

It is not to be anthropomorphosed into some kind of human or quasi-human form.

01:12:23 ► §

And when we were taking mushrooms on the plains of Africa

01:12:27 ► §

before the invention of agriculture as nomads,

01:12:32 ► §

we were rocked in the cradle of the goddess.

01:12:40 ► §

And the differences between men and women,

01:12:44 ► §

between parents and children,

01:12:47 ► §

between those who had much, if anybody had much, and those who had little,

01:12:52 ► §

and between human beings and the animal and vegetable kingdom were minimal

01:12:57 ► §

because everything operated in the light of this reference experience, boundary dissolution and a sense of the intelligence

01:13:12 ► §

of the earth. Now we are so alienated from the intelligence of the earth that when we

01:13:19 ► §

encounter it, we assume it came from halfway across the galaxy to rescue us. It isn’t from across

01:13:30 ► §

interstellar space. It’s something that is partially in ourselves and partially in the

01:13:38 ► §

world around us. And if we could but clear the prejudices of materialism from our approach to the world,

01:13:49 ► §

most especially from our language,

01:13:51 ► §

which by its subject-object bias,

01:13:54 ► §

by its linear syntax,

01:13:57 ► §

and by God knows what else that’s built into it,

01:14:01 ► §

hopelessly precludes us from contacting this reality,

01:14:07 ► §

if we could clear all that away,

01:14:10 ► §

we would discover a dimension of immense support and affection

01:14:16 ► §

for human beings and for our enterprises.

01:14:21 ► §

But as long as we pursue the destruction of the earth and the elaboration

01:14:26 ► §

of materialist ideology and the suppression of psychedelic states and the suppression of the

01:14:34 ► §

feminine, we are going to be alienated, feel abandoned, and operate in an ambiance of rampant pathology.

01:14:46 ► §

So to my mind, the hallucinogens are a call to return to the archaic style,

01:14:56 ► §

to recapture the tools, techniques, languages, and attitudes

01:15:02 ► §

that existed and flourished on this planet, you know, before A.D. 10,000.

01:15:10 ► §

And we must do this.

01:15:13 ► §

If we don’t do this, then we are setting ourselves up for a very unhappy future.

01:15:22 ► §

We are living in a very unhappy future. We are living in a very unhappy world.

01:15:26 ► §

Maybe your world is not unhappy,

01:15:29 ► §

but, you know, tell that in Bosnia.

01:15:32 ► §

Tell it in Somalia.

01:15:33 ► §

Tell it to the AIDS-infected masses of Africa.

01:15:38 ► §

The apocalypse is no longer a rumor.

01:15:42 ► §

It’s arrived in many parts of the world.

01:15:47 ► §

And we,

01:15:48 ► §

as the children,

01:15:50 ► §

the inheritors of the culture

01:15:52 ► §

which created this catastrophe,

01:15:55 ► §

and as the people

01:15:56 ► §

who are still above high,

01:15:58 ► §

still living on high ground,

01:16:01 ► §

as the waters of poverty,

01:16:03 ► §

epidemic disease,

01:16:07 ► §

and misery rise ever higher,

01:16:12 ► §

have a certain obligation to respond to this.

01:16:15 ► §

Moral decency demands it,

01:16:21 ► §

and we can no longer tolerate the evolution of consciousness,

01:16:25 ► §

the exploration of our relationships to each other, and the source of meaning itself to be regulated, stigmatized,

01:16:33 ► §

and degraded by the most frightened, the least educated,

01:16:39 ► §

the least balanced, and the least caring among us.

01:16:45 ► §

And this is what we’ve got at the present moment.

01:16:49 ► §

The male dominator mentality is in the process of running us

01:16:55 ► §

and all life on this planet into extinction.

01:16:59 ► §

I don’t have answers.

01:17:02 ► §

That must be clear by now.

01:17:04 ► §

I have questions and offered techniques. And there’s

01:17:09 ► §

nothing new about these techniques. They have been around for 100,000 years. And for 90,000 of those

01:17:18 ► §

100,000 years, they worked very well. And we existed in harmony with the rest of nature fully human fully able to

01:17:29 ► §

philosophize argue love riddle perform theater make masks so forth and so on but in the last

01:17:39 ► §

10 000 years we have fallen into a pathology and it’s because the umbilical connection to the mind in nature

01:17:47 ► §

has been severed, lost, pissed away, ignored, degraded, turned away from.

01:17:54 ► §

It is a psychedelic relationship to these plants.

01:17:59 ► §

Without that, you are not yourself.

01:18:03 ► §

Without that, you are half human. And this is how we behave.

01:18:08 ► §

We behave as though, you know, we have a soul, but it’s stapled in Yeats’ immensely compelling

01:18:17 ► §

phrase to the body of a dying animal. This needs to be corrected reconstructed addressed

01:18:25 ► §

otherwise we are going to go into the books

01:18:29 ► §

if there are books

01:18:31 ► §

and into the cosmic record

01:18:33 ► §

which there surely is a cosmic record

01:18:36 ► §

as jerks

01:18:37 ► §

lame

01:18:39 ► §

didn’t get it

01:18:41 ► §

couldn’t put it together

01:18:43 ► §

and this would be a terrible legacy

01:18:45 ► §

because we are not going into these crises

01:18:49 ► §

in a state of total anesthesia.

01:18:52 ► §

We have the answers.

01:18:55 ► §

We have the political machinery to do something about this.

01:18:59 ► §

We have the sense of crisis.

01:19:01 ► §

We have the goodwill and affection for each other.

01:19:04 ► §

But we are somehow

01:19:06 ► §

unable to put all this together in a configuration that would allow us to change our minds, admit

01:19:15 ► §

that history was a bad idea, that science betrayed us, that it’s a tale told by an idiot,

01:19:29 ► §

us, that it’s a tale told by an idiot, and to strike out in a new direction. We’re like the frog in the proverbial pot who never moves as the temperature climbs toward the boiling point.

01:19:37 ► §

Sooner or later, you have to just get up on your hind legs and say, enough already. Now, maybe this is beginning to happen and maybe it isn’t,

01:19:48 ► §

but it’s not for us to judge as spectators at a hockey game. It’s for us to get in and roll up

01:19:56 ► §

our sleeves and participate in. Do what you think is right. Think about what you think is right. Think about what you think is right and once you’ve thought about it

01:20:06 ► §

then do it.

01:20:07 ► §

And it doesn’t have to fit in with

01:20:09 ► §

my program or my

01:20:11 ► §

agenda. I have a deep

01:20:13 ► §

and abiding faith

01:20:15 ► §

that Mother Nature will

01:20:17 ► §

sort out the options and

01:20:19 ► §

from the offerings of all of

01:20:21 ► §

us, select those

01:20:23 ► §

that will be salvational and solitary for all the rest of us.

01:20:28 ► §

But if you don’t act, you didn’t participate.

01:20:32 ► §

I mean, this is not a roadshow, you know.

01:20:36 ► §

It’s your life, your planet, your world, and the tools to reclaim it are present at hand.

01:20:44 ► §

You’ve heard this now.

01:20:46 ► §

Now you have to ask yourself, what are you going to do about it?

01:20:51 ► §

That’s really all I have to say, and we’re finished here.

01:20:55 ► §

So thank you very much.

01:21:03 ► §

You’re listening to The Psychedelic Salon,

01:21:05 ► §

where people are changing their lives one thought at a time.

01:21:12 ► §

Well, what can anyone say after that rousing close?

01:21:16 ► §

As Terrence just said, if you don’t act, you didn’t participate.

01:21:21 ► §

I mean, this is not a road show, you know.

01:21:23 ► §

It’s your life, your planet, your world, and

01:21:25 ► §

the tools to reclaim it are present at hand. You’ve heard this now. Now you have to ask yourself,

01:21:31 ► §

what are you going to do about it? Well, those are really some words to think about, aren’t they?

01:21:38 ► §

And I’ll leave you to your own thoughts about those burning questions in a couple of minutes.

01:21:43 ► §

But first, I’ve got a few other comments that I’d like to add.

01:21:47 ► §

So, I’ll bet that when you heard that part where Terrence was talking about drugs and

01:21:53 ► §

mental states being passed through gases in the air, that, like me, you remembered some

01:21:58 ► §

of the times when either you or people you were around had what is commonly called a

01:22:03 ► §

contact high.

01:22:05 ► §

I’ve seen it happen many times myself.

01:22:07 ► §

In fact, it’s even happened to me.

01:22:08 ► §

So I know that the feeling is very much the same as taking a substance yourself.

01:22:14 ► §

And so maybe there’s a little more to the contact high here than meets the eye.

01:22:20 ► §

Maybe when we say there’s a good vibe in the air,

01:22:22 ► §

we’re actually sensing the off gases or pheromones of the whole group’s drug experience.

01:22:28 ► §

Now, there’s something that our scientists should be testing, and I’m sure there’d be no trouble getting volunteers for a study like that.

01:22:37 ► §

Now, without getting way off track here, what Terence said about nobody having ever seen a crop circle come into existence on his own was possibly true back when he said it, but today that’s no longer the case.

01:22:50 ► §

And if you want to follow up on that, or if you’re simply interested in the crop circle phenomena,

01:22:55 ► §

a good place to start your investigation might be on Neil Kramer’s website, The Cleaver,

01:23:00 ► §

which you can find at thecleaver.blogspot.com.

01:23:06 ► §

And it’s really too bad that Terrence isn’t still with us,

01:23:09 ► §

because I’m sure that he would be astounded by some of the new information

01:23:13 ► §

about crop circles that has come to light recently.

01:23:17 ► §

And I’m sure that I heard Neil tell about a case where a circle was observed

01:23:21 ► §

to come into existence without any humans nearby.

01:23:24 ► §

And I think there’s even a video of that event that so far has held up to scrutiny.

01:23:30 ► §

Interesting things, those crop circles.

01:23:33 ► §

But until I can walk in one myself, one that’s obviously not created by using any currently

01:23:39 ► §

known technology that bends the rapeseed stalks over without breaking them, well, once I’ve

01:23:44 ► §

been in a circle like that myself,

01:23:46 ► §

then I guess I’m going to have to come to some better conclusion

01:23:50 ► §

than my current one about where they come from.

01:23:53 ► §

You ready for my current thinking?

01:23:56 ► §

Well, I think that maybe they’re being made by adolescent entities in some higher dimension.

01:24:02 ► §

They’re just young semi-delinquent beings who are tagging the earth like gang members do in the inner city. Thank you. How does that compare to Terrence’s theory about ninja Japanese stem-snapping tourists being the circle makers?

01:24:28 ► §

I like mine better, but I’d rather see Terrence’s version take place, just because it would make a great YouTube video.

01:24:36 ► §

Well, there are a couple of other things I should probably cover, such as what’s up with the potential get-together in London with Bruce Dahmer next

01:24:45 ► §

summer.

01:24:46 ► §

And for sure, Bruce is going to be there.

01:24:48 ► §

I think there’s an event already getting solidified somehow, maybe two.

01:24:53 ► §

And I may be there myself.

01:24:55 ► §

And by next week, hopefully I’ll have a little bit more information to report on that front.

01:25:00 ► §

But right now, I’ve got to get back to resurfacing my matrixmasters.com website where I’m rolling my previous eight years of posting to over a dozen different blogs on that site.

01:25:12 ► §

I’m going to roll them all into a single WordPress blog that should make it a little easier to find things in the future.

01:25:33 ► §

This will do it for now, and I’ll close by reminding you that this and most of the podcasts from the Psychedelic Salon are freely available for you to use in your own audio projects under the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial Share Alike 3.0 license.

01:25:43 ► §

And if you have any questions about that, just click the Creative Commons link at the bottom of the Psychedelic Salon webpage, which you can find at psychedelicsalon.org. And if you are interested in the philosophy behind the psychedelic salon,

01:25:48 ► §

you can hear all about it in my novel, The Genesis Generation,

01:25:52 ► §

which is available as an audiobook that you can download at genesisgeneration.us.

01:25:58 ► §

And for now, this is Lorenzo signing off from cyberdelic space.

01:26:03 ► §

Be well, my friends.