056 - The Other Side of 2012″

Program Notes

Guest speaker: Lorenzo

This is a talk that Lorenzo gave at an Oracle Gathering in Seattle at the end of October 2006. In it he discusses three possible approaches to the 2012 meme: Muddling along, waiting for a mystical/magical transformation, or taking charge of your own life and planning for a personal change even though no major external events occur.

Transcript

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Greetings from cyberdelic space. This is Lorenzo and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon. As you probably noticed, you’re only going to hear from me today.

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I’ve given all of our other guest speakers some time off, so to speak.

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Actually, I’m podcasting my talk from the Oracle Gathering a couple of weeks ago,

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mainly because I don’t have enough time to digitize and edit one of the other programs I have lined up.

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enough time to digitize and edit one of the other programs I have lined up.

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My wife and I just returned from a visit with Myron and Gene Stolaroff in their lovely home up in the high desert, just at the foot of the Sierra Nevada mountains, and I’ve got

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to leave again tomorrow morning, so in the short amount of time I have, this program

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is about all I can fit in.

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Before I play it, though, I should probably set the

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scene a little, because when you hear me say something about sending in the clowns and

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taking off my nose, well, unless you know what was going on at the time, you might think

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I was under the influence of something strange, which I wasn’t, by the way. The talk you are

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about to hear is the one I gave at the Oracle Gathering in Seattle at the end of October,

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just a couple of days before Halloween.

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But as I understand it, it wasn’t the proximity of Halloween that caused most of the people there to don costumes.

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Apparently, the people who attend these gatherings can quite often be found in wild and colorful costumes.

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these gatherings can quite often be found in wild and colorful costumes. So not to be left out,

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and with the help of Brian and Nicole, I joined in the fun. I don’t really know how to describe an oracle gathering because there are really spectacular events that include art, music,

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lectures, and some serious all-night dancing orchestrated by some of the finest DJs in the land.

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When I got home, I told my friends in Southern California that it was Burning Man in a box.

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Now, I hope I don’t make any of the Oracle people, or the Burning Man people for that matter, mad by saying this,

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because the two events are actually quite different.

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by saying this because the two events are actually quite different. What I’m trying to say is that I was every bit as energized after the Oracle Gathering as

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I was after a week at Burning Man. I guess you just have to attend both of

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those events someday yourself and see what I mean. The gathering was held in a

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large building that had the main dance floor upstairs and several smaller rooms

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in the basement and after a spectacular opening ceremony in the main dance floor upstairs and several smaller rooms in the basement.

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And after a spectacular opening ceremony in the main room, a surprisingly large crowd migrated to one of the basement rooms, all of which were highly decorated with all kinds

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of art and lighting.

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And there, Daniel Pinchbeck and I spoke for a little while.

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At the same time we were talking, the DJs had already begun

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their magic upstairs and also in one of the other smaller rooms. The joint was hopping,

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as they say, whoever they are. I have to admit that I was blown away by the fact that the

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room Daniel and I were speaking in was packed. The last time I spoke at an event somewhat

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similar, but not nearly as well produced as this,

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there were only a handful of people who cared about hearing someone speak when there was music to be heard.

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Maybe the good people of Seattle have a little more of an intellectual bent than those in San Francisco.

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Not really.

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Of course, the fact that this gathering wouldn’t end until 5 o’clock the next morning probably helped.

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It’s never wise to peak on the dance floor too early, you know.

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But I digress.

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So let’s just cut to the chase and listen to my good friend La as she introduced Lorenzo the Clown,

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whose topic that night was the other side of 2012.

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That night was the other side of 2012.

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Good morning, everyone.

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And welcome to the communiversity portion of this other side oracle tonight.

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I’d like to introduce Lorenzo Haggerty, who is an old friend of mine. I met him in 1999 in Palenque, Mexico

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at the famous Entheobotany seminars there.

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And Lorenzo has a book that came out in the year 2000

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called Spirit of the Internet.

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He is currently hosting the Psychedelic Salon podcast channel.

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And for the last four years at Burning Man,

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he has been the Palenque Norte lecture host as well.

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So tonight he’ll be talking about the other side of 2012.

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Welcome, Lorenzo Haggerty.

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Thank you, La.

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They said send in the clowns, and so here I am.

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But I’ve got to take my nose off to talk tonight.

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After that beautiful opening ceremony,

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I think that everybody here tonight is already on the other side of 2012.

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And so what we need to do is get our mindset where we can help other people.

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You know, a lot of people hear this 2012, 2012 thing and say,

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hey, what’s up with the 2012 business?

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You know, who really cares about an old Mayan calendar that’s running out?

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And I think that’s an excellent question, you know,

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that we don’t really know a whole lot about it other than they’ve got an end date

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that is a little bit in dispute, but around 2012.

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And, you know, when our calendar runs out, what do we do?

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Well, we just start it over again.

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And thanks to the Catholic missionaries from Spain, they burned all the Mayan libraries.

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So we really don’t know for sure what that’s about.

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But, you know, there’s a lot of other things up.

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I think 2012 is a really interesting target date, particularly since it’s so close.

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But what about what’s really going on?

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I mean, we all are here tonight because I think there’s more than just a great happening here.

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And happening, I think, is what they call this in the 60s.

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And this is really a happening happening.

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But there’s a lot of other things that are happening, particularly with ancient cultures.

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My wife and I just attended a conference a couple weeks ago called the Conference on Procession and Ancient Knowledge.

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And all of the usual specifics were there.

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You know, John Major Jenkins and John Anthony West and Grant Hancock.

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And they had a lot of information about other esoteric things besides just the Mayan calendar.

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And there’s a lot of other traditions and all.

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A lot of them seem to point to this time.

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A lot of them don’t.

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The Yuga cycle.

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Some people think that we’re in the Iron Age or the Bronze Age.

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Some people think we’re moving into a Golden Age.

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And one of the things, actually, I got out of Daniel’s book, I believe,

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is that just because whatever age we’re in doesn’t mean we can’t have a golden age consciousness.

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And I think that’s really where all of us here tonight are about.

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I’m going to try to do a few, look at my notes here a bit because I’ve not talked about this before.

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But the CPAC conference, as they called it, had a lot of different traditions and knowledge talked about

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and trying to superimpose the Mayan 2012 with the Yuga cycle, with this and that.

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But the only thing everybody agreed on is that the official story isn’t right.

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We don’t really understand a lot of these ancient traditions,

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and we don’t understand for sure about what’s going to happen.

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We’ve also got the scientists that talk about a technological singularity.

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But all of us, you know, basically instead of saying what’s up with 2012,

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we should say, hey, you know, what’s up with this planet?

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You know, that things are different right now.

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minute, you know, that things are different right now. You know, one of the things I guess I picked up and came away with from the CPAC conference

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though is that if you’re going to really dig into some of this esoteric stuff, you really

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need a good BS detector.

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And you know, because there’s some of that going around.

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And another thing I walked away with is that we have to really be careful

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that we don’t believe in something just because we want to believe in it. And my wife and

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I have been on this path for quite a while, her a lot longer than me, and there are some

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things we really want to believe. For example, and Daniel’m sure, will maybe touch on this, at least in the Q&A,

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that Calamon has a new take on the Mayan calendar, which we really like and buy into.

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And we have to be careful, though, that we don’t just become a cult and start saying,

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oh, 2012, what are we going to do?

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Or can we do anything?

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Or do we have to do anything?

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And with all of that’s going on,

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I think that it’s important for this community to kind of get a sense of balance and to

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take these things under advisement and then to look at what’s going on with the planet. Because

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no matter how you slice it, things are a little different now than any time in recorded history,

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human history, simply because things are moving so fast.

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You know, our technology is getting way ahead of us.

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Unless you’re a dyed-in-the-wool Republican or a fascist,

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you really believe that the climate is changing.

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I mean, you don’t have to really look far to see that.

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And we’ve got, you know, things like global warming, that humans are overpopulating this

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planet. I said the humans, I guess I should say us humans, but sometimes I don’t feel like I’m

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one of them, the one of the big consumer society. You know, that I, one of the difficulties that

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we have faced, my wife and I, we’ve thought about, you know, we don’t like the way things are going in this country.

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So we’ve looked at, do we go here?

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Do we go there?

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Should we leave?

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And yet, when you think about it, the biggest problem I see on the planet is really what we’re sending poor young kids to die for, and it’s called the American way of life.

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You know, that the American way of life isn’t sustainable.

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A good way to look at the

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numbers is to picture yourself on a world cruise and there’s a hundred of us signed up and we’re

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going to take turns running the boiler and driving the ship and all those things. And there’s a

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hundred of us and we’ve got to share all the resources and we’re going to go around the planet

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for a year, cruising the oceans, seeing the sights. and yet we get halfway across the Pacific

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and we find out that four people are using 30% of our resources.

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And we say, you know, what are we going to do about this?

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Now, those four people aren’t worried because at the rate they’re using them,

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they can make the whole cruise,

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but the rest of us are going to be starved to death by that.

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And so that’s really the statistics.

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If you think about it,

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4% of the people are using 30% of the resources and doing a quarter at least of the pollution.

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And so if we’re going to change things, running away from here really doesn’t seem to be the answer.

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Doing something here to get us through this crisis might be a little bit better, more of the answer.

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a little bit better, more of the answer.

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You know, there’s a lot of stuff going on that it’s hard to watch the news

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and not get really negative about life.

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And you don’t have to take,

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you can just take, forget about climate change.

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Forget about the insane, mad people

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that are taking over the government

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and doing this murderous wars

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that they’re doing to get resources.

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And forget about things like that and look at the Amazon.

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The Amazon is disappearing because so many Americans like hamburgers.

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That’s one of the reasons.

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The economics is another.

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And, of course, here in Seattle, what a wonderful place to be because if there’s any energy

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that’s fighting the WTO,

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it came out here in Seattle.

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I mean, this is sort of the heartbeat of a lot of that movement.

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I’ve been very impressed in the last couple days here with the energy in this city.

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You know, if it wasn’t for a lot of other issues, you know,

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this would be a place I’d really look to move.

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And so I think that there’s energy, there’s movement,

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and yet we look at it and we say, well,

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it’s just me, just little old me. What can I do? And so here is step one, I think, and I’m going to read a quote. This was written by a man living in Paris in 1934. This is when the Nazis were just

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really coming into power. World War II is looming. And you can remember all the difficulty.

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Everything that happened in World War II was a really big mess.

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And I think we’re in a similar kind of vibe right now, but then we have all the global problems.

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The world economic situation is very dismal.

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The U.S. credit, you know, the trade balance is essentially our credit card.

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Our credit card is maxed out out and the possibility of peak oil.

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It doesn’t mean we’re going to run out of oil, but we’re going to run out of cheap oil.

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And we’re just in a rut here where we’ve got a tiger by the tail and can’t let go.

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And so I look back, and in 1934, this guy had a very interesting take on it,

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and it’s what I call step one for moving forward.

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And here’s what

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he said. It may be that we are doomed, that there is no hope for us, any of us. But if that is so,

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then let us set up a last agonizing, blood-curling howl, a screech of defiance, a war hoop,

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away with lamentation, away with eulogies and dirges, away with biographies and histories and libraries and museums.

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Let the dead eat the dead.

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Let us living ones dance about the rim of the crater.

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A last expiring dance, but a dance.

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And that’s what we’re going to do tonight.

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So you’ve taken step one, I believe.

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I think the energy that comes from the dance community worldwide is,

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and some people talk about the tribe or the psychedelic community or the dance community worldwide is, and some people talk about the tribe

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or the psychedelic community or the dance community.

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I don’t really, I’m getting away from the tribe feeling

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simply because I think a tribe is pretty homogeneous.

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And you can take a look around the room

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and there’s not a lot of homogeneity here.

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There’s a lot of creativity, a lot of individuality.

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And instead of a tribe, it’s really more of a vibe.

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And that’s what we’re picking up on.

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I think that’s why we’re here.

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But come Monday morning, how do you take this vibe back to your cubicle?

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That’s the big trick.

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What do you do next?

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And I see three different ways to approach the situation.

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And I picked 2012 simply because it’s the meme that’s going around

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right now. And it’s really, I think, a good meme simply because it’s forcing us to focus on a

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pretty near-term date. And if we don’t have, you know, most of us, I won’t put that on you,

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I am one of the world’s best procrastinators. And I wait to the last minute. And I think right now this is like the last minute if we don’t start doing some things.

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So the three different approaches I see to moving through the current situation we’re in,

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one is what I think most people are doing, and that is the muddle along approach.

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You know, we’re just going to muddle along.

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And quite frankly, I think that’s the best

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bet it’s the odds on bet you know since uh the last time there was a big uh major change that

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wasn’t a muddle along change was about 65 million years ago when the dinosaurs were wiped out in the

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comet or meteorite or whatever hit the planet to change things and so muddling along is not a bad strategy, I guess, if you go with the odds. But

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something I think is different this time, and we can maybe muddle along and get through this,

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if everything doesn’t start crashing at once. If we don’t run out of cheap oil,

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if the economic system doesn’t collapse, if this doesn’t happen, if the Gulf Stream doesn’t

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reverse, if the ice caps stop melting.

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But if they all happen at the same time and we have a cascading effect, well, the muddle along approach just doesn’t seem to me to be too practical right now.

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And the other approach is the total opposite end of the spectrum.

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And that’s where we’re looking for a magical, mystical transformation.

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And that’s, quite frankly, very appealing.

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And it’s very appealing to me, and I don’t think it’s really unrealistic.

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And the reason I don’t think it’s unrealistic is,

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I guess it’s because I’ve spent so much time in entheospace,

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or whatever you want to call it, tripping, okay,

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that after you’ve done a few of these substances for a few times and spent some time with the elves,

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you know that this isn’t all coming out of our imagination.

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Those self-transforming machine elves that Terrence talked about are here.

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You know, they’re a photon away, and they’re watching us right now,

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and I’m sure they are laughing their butts off at us

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because we are a pretty ridiculous group of species here right now.

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But that is a possibility, particularly with the psychedelic mindset that a lot of people have,

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and I’m not talking about just people who use substances,

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that meditation, fasting there’s a lot of ways that that people

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transport themselves into other dimensionalities and and have a feeling for you know something can

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happen a transformation can happen and i is from what i’ve read one of the the best bets for uh

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what the mayans believed would happen at the end of this processional cycle,

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when their calendar, the long count stops, is not an apocalyptic change,

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but a quantum change in human consciousness.

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And I really do believe that that is possible.

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I think that there can be enough people that reach a state of saying, enough.

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Let’s take a look at our system. We’re not

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living sustainably hardly anywhere on this planet. There’s individual people who are getting closer

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and closer in doing it. But as a civilization of humans, we’re very unsustainable. And so I think

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that while it’s possible that there’s going to be a big transformation

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when the sun rises and eclipses the galactic center,

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perhaps something like that will happen.

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But I’m more of a person that wants to take charge of my own life a little bit.

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And I’m really hoping that on 2012,

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a lot of you who believe

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in the magical, mystical transformation only

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will come up and say,

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I told you so.

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And I’m really hoping everybody,

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and my wife is one of those,

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and I hope she says,

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yeah, I told you so.

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You were just worried

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and hear everything transform.

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Everybody gets it.

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You know, if overnight,

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everybody had a message from Gaia that you get, say, with an ayahuasca journey, overnight we could transform the planet.

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We could start tidying up and cleaning up.

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And by the way, if you happen to believe in reincarnation, you are your own ancestor.

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And so why not tidy up now and then come back for a nice clean visit sometime. So, you know, there’s,

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I think, a lot of reasons to take another approach because if we’re not careful as a

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community, as a tribe, as a dance community, a psychedelic community, a tribe, or whatever

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we want to call ourselves, if we’re not careful, we’re going to become what I call the hail bop comet people,

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the ones that kill themselves to go join the comet and stuff.

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We don’t want to.

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I don’t want to.

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I don’t want to be branded that.

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And I’m being very careful to not let my thinking get that way because, you know what,

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I want to think that way.

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I want to believe that.

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And I do hope for that.

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And there’s a lot to be said about the law of attraction. And if enough of us are thinking that way and attract that vibe,

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but I think we have to do more than think to attract it. I think we have to, you know,

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put legs on that thinking and start doing some things. So if you’re just going to believe in a

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magical, mystical transformation, well, what difference does it make what you do right now?

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And my personal belief is it’s going to make a lot of difference what all of us do in the next

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few years, whether it’s between now and 2012 or between now and 2050 or between now and the end

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of this century. We are, at least in this century, there’s going to be a major, major transformation, I believe. But I’m not counting on that kind of a major transformation.

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Although I’m not a gambling person, but if I was, I’d bet that within 10 years,

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what we call the United States of America, not very united really,

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but I don’t think it’s going to be around in its present form.

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I think it’s changing. I think the whole global economic system is changing and I think

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it’s going to happen in less than ten years but if it doesn’t if we’re

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muddling along well what’s the middle road the the Buddhist middle road

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approach between the head in the sand muddle along and the mystical magical

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transformation well when when la asked me to

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give her a little paragraph about what i was going to talk about tonight i very casually dashed off

00:21:33 ►

a quick email i said well we’ll talk about plan b if you don’t have plan b you’re part of somebody

00:21:38 ►

else’s plan i’ll talk about my plan b and then we sat down my wife and I started talking, you know what? Our plan B went away not

00:21:46 ►

long ago. And I’ll explain that. So I don’t really have a cool plan B right now, but we have a vision

00:21:55 ►

of the future. And our vision has only two points to it right now. and that is by 2012, and we’re using that deadline personally, we want to be off the grid and able to detach from the system if the system

00:22:11 ►

crashes, goes away, or gets really radically changed.

00:22:15 ►

So we want to be in a position physically for ourselves and our friends and family that

00:22:20 ►

we could do that.

00:22:21 ►

Now, our original plan B, we started with a group a couple

00:22:27 ►

years ago and we got quite a long way down the line of planning a little

00:22:30 ►

intentional community and we researched how we could grow, do our own biofuel

00:22:36 ►

and grow organic vegetables and we were coming together and it was looking

00:22:40 ►

really good and then we made, one of us made the classic mistake that everybody

00:22:44 ►

advises against and they went out and bought some land. And then we made, one of us made the classic mistake that everybody advises against,

00:22:49 ►

and they went out and bought some land. And if you don’t have your plan in place, we found,

00:22:54 ►

before you buy the land, all of a sudden it becomes that person’s project. And so our whole little group just disintegrated and dissolved. And so we had to start over again. Now, which we’re

00:23:01 ►

doing. And so tonight, really, what I’m going to do is I’m going to tell you sort of my reasoning

00:23:08 ►

why I think we all need a plan B,

00:23:11 ►

and I think we need to be thinking about it pretty quickly

00:23:14 ►

and start implementing it in our own lives as best we can.

00:23:18 ►

And one of the reasons I think that the system is going to transform,

00:23:24 ►

and if you’re attached to the system, the global economic system and the U.S. system,

00:23:30 ►

which we all are, by the way, and it’s very difficult to detach,

00:23:34 ►

and nobody can do it alone.

00:23:36 ►

I think the 60s hippie thing of, oh, let’s all run away and have a commune and like that,

00:23:42 ►

it just didn’t work out.

00:23:44 ►

It’s not feasible.

00:23:45 ►

In a situation like I’m in, I have very few resources.

00:23:49 ►

I have family I don’t want to leave.

00:23:50 ►

And so it’s what you do with where you’re at, what you’ve got.

00:23:54 ►

And that’s sort of the thing we’re looking at.

00:23:56 ►

But I’ll tell you what I think the system’s going away is because I think underlying everything that’s going on,

00:24:11 ►

Because I think underlying everything that’s going on, there’s a much bigger pattern taking place that isn’t going to be seen until maybe 500 years from now looking back.

00:24:17 ►

And I’ve taken a lot of grief for this stand, and people think it’s divisive.

00:24:18 ►

Some people do.

00:24:23 ►

But think of this as a metaphor if you don’t want to think of it as fact. In my belief system, my world,

00:24:26 ►

this is a fact because I’ve been living with it for a long time. But it may be just nothing more

00:24:31 ►

than a metaphor. But I think that our species, the human species, is bifurcating into two new

00:24:38 ►

species. We’ve gone through Homo erectus, Homo sapiens, Neanderthal. And, you know, we’re technically, they call us Homo sapiens sapien

00:24:47 ►

because we’re different from the original sapiens because we use tools, et cetera.

00:24:53 ►

But what a lot of people don’t realize is, and I didn’t until I started researching it,

00:24:58 ►

is the sapiens, or I like to call Homo sapiens, I call them sapes.

00:25:04 ►

Sentient apes is really what we are,

00:25:06 ►

sentient apes with the nuclear weapons.

00:25:09 ►

But the Homo sapiens and the Neanderthals actually lived side by side, cave by cave.

00:25:18 ►

They thought for at least 5,000 years.

00:25:20 ►

Now they know it’s over 10,000 years.

00:25:21 ►

They found Neanderthal cave art that goes back only 25,000 years.

00:25:28 ►

And so these two species actually lived side by side for a long time.

00:25:34 ►

And when we think today about species, I do, I think immediately, well, DNA.

00:25:41 ►

But, you know, there a speciation differentiation long

00:25:46 ►

before DNA was discovered and so species the way they one of the real key

00:25:52 ►

components is what do they interbreed for example there were some some elk or

00:25:58 ►

antelope I can’t remember what they were that were separated by an earthquake you

00:26:02 ►

know millennium ago or more you know maybe two or three millennium ago.

00:26:06 ►

And genetically, their DNA is 100% the same.

00:26:10 ►

They’re exactly the same DNA-wise, but they have totally different diets,

00:26:15 ►

which they were forced to assume because of their separation.

00:26:19 ►

And when you put them together, they don’t interbreed.

00:26:21 ►

They are two different species, even though their DNA is the

00:26:25 ►

same. And what first started me thinking about this is six or seven years ago, I was at a rave

00:26:30 ►

that was held up in the San Bernardino Mountains. And we were sitting around, the chill space was

00:26:36 ►

actually a fire outside. And we’re sitting around and people have been talking about food, health

00:26:43 ►

food and organic food and vegan versus vegetarian.

00:26:47 ►

And it was pretty obvious that there were no fast food eaters in the crowd.

00:26:53 ►

They had different diets from what the mass of people in this country do.

00:26:58 ►

And they also, these two young guys are sitting just close to me.

00:27:03 ►

One of them brought up a famous pop star.

00:27:06 ►

I think it was Britney Spears.

00:27:08 ►

And this kid says, you know, I wouldn’t screw her with your dick.

00:27:12 ►

And I thought, wow, this kid’s a different species.

00:27:15 ►

You know, he wouldn’t interbreed.

00:27:18 ►

And, you know, if you give this a little thought, think of some of the sapes you know,

00:27:24 ►

because I don’t think there’s any sapes in here.

00:27:26 ►

I see the river of humanity as flowing and having two channels right now, two streams.

00:27:35 ►

And the one stream is a stream that’s been flowing since we started walking upright

00:27:41 ►

and having emotions is the stream I call the universal human.

00:27:47 ►

And the other stream had been the sapiens in another channel of Neanderthal,

00:27:52 ►

and that stream went into a swamp and died out.

00:27:55 ►

And so now we’ve got the universals and the saps.

00:28:01 ►

Now, the reason I call them universals is I’ve had the great privilege in the last 22 months

00:28:08 ►

of watching an infant grow into a little girl walking around. And, you know, when children are

00:28:15 ►

born, they’re sort of like stem cells. They can become anything. And, you know, they lay in their crib and they have this really mystical experience.

00:28:27 ►

There’s a lot of reason for people to say that until a child gets a year or so old,

00:28:36 ►

they’re really in a psychedelic state.

00:28:38 ►

And I don’t have time to go into some of the explanation behind that,

00:28:42 ►

but they’re really in this state.

00:28:43 ►

And if you’ve ever been in one of these states and experienced this,

00:28:47 ►

that’s where they’re laying in the crib doing that.

00:28:51 ►

And they have this color and this nice breeze.

00:28:57 ►

And, ooh, what an experience.

00:28:59 ►

And then their parents come and say, that was a bird, a peacock.

00:29:04 ►

And a little piece of mosaic goes over this experience

00:29:09 ►

and language comes in and culture comes in

00:29:12 ►

and family comes in and nation comes in

00:29:14 ►

and religion comes in.

00:29:15 ►

And we cocoon ourselves into this cocoon of a worldview

00:29:20 ►

that no longer are we universal humans

00:29:24 ►

because now we’re defending our country and our religion.

00:29:28 ►

But we could have become anything.

00:29:30 ►

If we were adopted by people in Iran right now,

00:29:35 ►

we may be Muslims.

00:29:36 ►

We may be thinking totally different,

00:29:38 ►

even though we started with the same genetic makeup.

00:29:41 ►

And so I think we all come into this world as universal humans.

00:29:44 ►

And to become back to universal, we have to into this world as universal humans and to become back

00:29:46 ►

to universal, we have to crack this shell,

00:29:48 ►

this chrysalis, and

00:29:49 ►

spread our wings again.

00:29:52 ►

Now between these two channels

00:29:54 ►

in this stream of humanity

00:29:55 ►

is where I see the dance community.

00:29:58 ►

And I think that the

00:30:00 ►

dance community is the magnet

00:30:02 ►

where we bring

00:30:04 ►

people from the safe stream

00:30:07 ►

and move them through this membrane into the universal stream where they started.

00:30:14 ►

And, you know, in chaos theory, they call moving from one basin of attraction to another,

00:30:20 ►

it’s called, the new basin is called a strange attractor.

00:30:23 ►

And just take a look around the room. This isn called a strange attractor. And just take a look around

00:30:25 ►

the room. This isn’t a strange attractor. I think there’s a lot of strange attractors here. I think

00:30:30 ►

that I really truly believe that the dance community worldwide, which is, I believe, probably

00:30:37 ►

one of the longest running what they call youth movements in history, although the youths are

00:30:42 ►

getting pretty old, a lot of them now. I think this is the energy.

00:30:47 ►

This is the vibration.

00:30:48 ►

And that’s why I like to come to these events, because I get recharged.

00:30:52 ►

I get a lot of hope.

00:30:54 ►

And I think that if we can just attract more people and bring more people to this, like

00:31:01 ►

tonight is like the most beautiful example, because there are people here of all ages.

00:31:06 ►

There’s little children.

00:31:07 ►

There’s older people.

00:31:08 ►

I’m a grandfather.

00:31:09 ►

I’m living on Social Security.

00:31:11 ►

My God.

00:31:11 ►

And when the system goes, I’m going to be out of luck.

00:31:14 ►

But I’ve got a lot of capital.

00:31:16 ►

It’s called social capital.

00:31:18 ►

And that’s what we all have as friends, the social capital.

00:31:21 ►

So if I think that really 500 years from now, let’s say there’s no mystical,

00:31:28 ►

magical transformation. I still think that 500 years from now, historians or whatever they call

00:31:35 ►

themselves then are going to look back. First of all, we’re going to look as foolish as people

00:31:38 ►

500 years ago looked. But if you look back 500 years from today, you see the year 1500. And you look at a generation

00:31:47 ►

or even 10 years on either side of that and see what was going on in history. It was one of the

00:31:51 ►

most profound changes in human history. Simply, it went from the flat world view to the solar,

00:31:59 ►

we’re going around the sun, the universe expanded. We’ve not acquired yet a quantum view of the world,

00:32:06 ►

and we’re living really in a quantum universe.

00:32:09 ►

And in Daniel’s new book, he talks about having acquired a shamanic worldview,

00:32:14 ►

and I agree with him.

00:32:15 ►

I think another word for the shamanic worldview might be a quantum worldview.

00:32:20 ►

I think there’s the shamanic enterprises and quantum physics are coming together. So 500

00:32:26 ►

years from now, what I’m predicting is that the historians will look back at this time and say

00:32:34 ►

those people who were alive right then, they were our Genesis generation. And I think that’s who we

00:32:41 ►

are right now. We’re the Genesis generation for really the future of the planet,

00:32:46 ►

of the species

00:32:47 ►

because I think the sapes are heading down

00:32:50 ►

to where their stream is going to bifurcate

00:32:53 ►

and go into a swamp of unsustainable living

00:32:57 ►

and I think that’s where they’re heading.

00:32:59 ►

So what’s the plan B?

00:33:01 ►

Well, I don’t know what the plan B is.

00:33:04 ►

Where do you locate?

00:33:06 ►

What do you do?

00:33:07 ►

I think it’s what you do with where you are, what you’ve got.

00:33:10 ►

And I think that, especially up in this area, I’ve talked to so many people who are getting into organic food, organic gardening, alternative fuels, putting solar cells in their houses,

00:33:22 ►

that little steps like that, you do what you can.

00:33:26 ►

Because by taking a step like that, by changing the way you’re living,

00:33:30 ►

by getting a more fuel-efficient vehicle,

00:33:33 ►

by figuring out your schedule so you can get by on one vehicle,

00:33:36 ►

and all of the little things that are going to be difficult and irritable in your life

00:33:40 ►

can change your life and then inspire maybe your neighbors, your friends,

00:33:45 ►

your relatives to do the same thing.

00:33:47 ►

I think you make a difference to your own life.

00:33:50 ►

I make a difference to my life.

00:33:52 ►

Our neighbors, our families start copying some of the things they see.

00:33:55 ►

We’re getting happier.

00:33:56 ►

We’re living more productively.

00:33:58 ►

I think that we can become a basin of attraction and bring a lot more people into a sustainable community

00:34:07 ►

because that’s where we have to go.

00:34:10 ►

I don’t know where we are in time

00:34:12 ►

and if we have any time,

00:34:14 ►

maybe what we ought to do

00:34:16 ►

is we’ll move into Daniel

00:34:17 ►

and at time at the end

00:34:18 ►

we’ll open up for questions

00:34:20 ►

and statements and like that.

00:34:22 ►

Okay, so I’ve got a little time?

00:34:24 ►

So right now, I’ve got a little time

00:34:28 ►

before I bring Daniel up.

00:34:30 ►

Does anybody have a statement, a question,

00:34:33 ►

something they’d like to move this discussion on

00:34:36 ►

a little further?

00:34:37 ►

Yeah.

00:34:39 ►

Oh, okay.

00:34:41 ►

Oh, get questions on the mic.

00:34:43 ►

Does anybody have a question

00:34:44 ►

that they’re not embarrassed about to ask?

00:34:49 ►

Come on up if I can give you the mic so that the people that are recording it can get it.

00:34:54 ►

I’d really appreciate it.

00:34:56 ►

Sure.

00:34:57 ►

And a statement’s fine, too.

00:34:59 ►

I’m just curious to think what you would think about cooperation in our community.

00:35:06 ►

Well, you know, that’s really the key, isn’t it?

00:35:10 ►

You know, cooperation versus competition.

00:35:12 ►

And, you know, we can talk a lot about was competition necessary to get us to this place?

00:35:19 ►

You know, is it necessary to have competition to get the Internet built, to build fuel-efficient cars or whatever?

00:35:30 ►

You can argue about that all you want, but I think we’ve reached a point in time where competition really has to go.

00:35:37 ►

It’s time for cooperation.

00:35:38 ►

You know, that we’ve been competing for resources.

00:35:41 ►

And, you know, let’s really be honest as Americans here.

00:35:45 ►

We’re out attacking the world trying to get their resources. And, you know, let’s really be honest as Americans here. We’re out attacking the world trying to get their resources.

00:35:49 ►

And what’s happened now is we’ve gotten all the easy resources,

00:35:53 ►

the ones that we’ve taken, so we’re going after the indigenous people

00:35:56 ►

and trying to get their resources.

00:35:58 ►

The Hopi Nation is in dire problems because we’re taking all their water

00:36:02 ►

to slurry coal so that we can build more

00:36:06 ►

power plants and you know their their whole nation is in dire straits because we’re going after them

00:36:13 ►

now there is another thing that uh is going on and since we have a minute i’ll just bring it up

00:36:18 ►

uh some of my friends are involved in research with artificial intelligence,

00:36:27 ►

which I think is an oxymoron myself. But they’re talking about computer-generated intelligence or human-augmented intelligence.

00:36:33 ►

But here’s a little factoid that’s kind of interesting.

00:36:37 ►

If you see things coming at us,

00:36:39 ►

several of the people who are studying what’s going on with power consumption

00:36:47 ►

have determined that by the end of this decade, we’re talking four years,

00:36:52 ►

that one half of all the electricity generated on this planet

00:36:56 ►

will be used to power computers that are connected to the Internet.

00:37:01 ►

Now, if you think about this for a minute,

00:37:03 ►

of all the electricity we humans are generating, half is going to machines, to computing machines that have all kinds of interesting potentials. And I’m not a believer that an AI is going to wake this at the Ph.D. level have predicted that if one does,

00:37:25 ►

you know where it’s going to land?

00:37:27 ►

Google, the biggest, largest computer complex in the world now, bigger than the government.

00:37:31 ►

So that’s encouraging because if the AI wakes up, I’d rather have it wake up in Google than in the NSA.

00:37:37 ►

So I think there is some positive things there.

00:37:40 ►

But getting back to your question, does anybody think that competition is better

00:37:46 ►

than cooperation at this stage of the game? I think this rugged individualism that we’ve

00:37:51 ►

been brought up with in this country is great and it’s brought us a long way, but rugged

00:37:57 ►

cooperation is where we need to go. None of us can live on our own, even the survivalists

00:38:03 ►

come into town to buy stuff from time to time.

00:38:05 ►

So that’s my take on it anyhow.

00:38:08 ►

Any other questions or comments?

00:38:11 ►

Brave people right now?

00:38:13 ►

Okay.

00:38:13 ►

Well, let’s kind of – okay.

00:38:15 ►

Yeah, come on.

00:38:19 ►

I just wanted to speak to a crowd that had similar interests as me because for a long time I felt alone in these thought patterns that we have.

00:38:35 ►

And I didn’t talk about it to other people.

00:38:39 ►

So it was really something I was hiding from myself.

00:38:44 ►

really something I was hiding from myself.

00:38:48 ►

And recently, I started talking about it and come to find out that everyone that I’ve been hanging out with for years and years,

00:38:55 ►

they all had the same, like, thought patterns.

00:38:58 ►

They all had, like, the same energy,

00:39:01 ►

and they, like, really started talking to me about it.

00:39:04 ►

Made a lot of connections, and I just want to encourage

00:39:08 ►

not to be afraid to just talk

00:39:12 ►

about what you believe in, and if you’re an artist,

00:39:16 ►

or if you’re a music producer, or whatever

00:39:20 ►

you do, kind of try to work your message,

00:39:24 ►

your personal message, into what you do.

00:39:28 ►

And that’s really all I had to say.

00:39:30 ►

I think that’s brilliant and a great suggestion.

00:39:33 ►

Terrific.

00:39:34 ►

And like you said, it takes a lot of courage the first time or two.

00:39:38 ►

I used to promote this saying, let’s have a bring your parents to a rave night.

00:39:43 ►

And so I don’t, right now I’m saying bring your grandparents to a rave night.

00:39:49 ►

Because, and you know, it’s not that far-fetched an idea

00:39:54 ►

because if you think about what parents want for their children,

00:39:58 ►

they only want the best.

00:39:59 ►

They want good things.

00:40:00 ►

And they think that their way is the best because that’s what they’ve done.

00:40:03 ►

I went through this whole cycle.

00:40:05 ►

And if you bring them to a rave, to a gathering, or whatever you want to call it,

00:40:09 ►

and let them see the energy and let them feel the vibe,

00:40:13 ►

these people, some of them are in powerful positions in corporations and government,

00:40:18 ►

and they can start making some changes too.

00:40:21 ►

So I think that if you, let’s not, I think that’s great.

00:40:24 ►

You start talking to people, you

00:40:26 ►

include them, you bring them in, and

00:40:28 ►

don’t worry about what people think about you

00:40:30 ►

because I think you’ll find out, like you just said,

00:40:32 ►

most of the time, they’re thinking

00:40:34 ►

the same thing and they’re afraid to

00:40:35 ►

speak up. So, you know, take

00:40:38 ►

a chance. March in the parade.

00:40:42 ►

So, how about it?

00:40:43 ►

Are some of you going to take your parents and grandparents to a rave sometime soon?

00:40:48 ►

As much as it sounds like a joke, I’m really serious about this.

00:40:52 ►

I firmly believe that if next weekend everyone, and that means you too,

00:40:58 ►

everyone who goes to a rave or a gathering or a happening or whatever you want to call an all-night trance dance party,

00:41:04 ►

if everyone took someone to one of those events that was a generation or two older than them,

00:41:09 ►

well, I think this world would miraculously change overnight.

00:41:14 ►

I really believe that these events are that powerful.

00:41:17 ►

So what do you say? Let’s get some more of us old guys out there dancing.

00:41:20 ►

It certainly can’t hurt. I better qualify that. It can’t hurt the planet.

00:41:25 ►

It may cause a little joint pain

00:41:28 ►

in a few of us dusty old farts,

00:41:30 ►

but no pain, no gain, as they say.

00:41:33 ►

I want to thank John M.

00:41:35 ►

for the recording of this talk,

00:41:36 ►

which is a lot better than some of the cassette recordings

00:41:39 ►

I’ve been making and subjecting you to lately.

00:41:42 ►

Also, thanks to John M.,

00:41:44 ►

my next podcast will be of the talk that Daniel Pinchbeck gave right after mine.

00:41:49 ►

And in it, you’ll hear a slightly different take on the 2012 meme.

00:41:53 ►

If I had the time, I’d like to say more about the Oracle Gathering,

00:41:57 ►

but I still have a lot of things to do before leaving for the cruise,

00:42:01 ►

where Bruce Dahmer and I will be on a quest to search out some long-lost McKenna tapes.

00:42:07 ►

So I’m going to end this podcast a little differently this time.

00:42:11 ►

A few months ago, I was contacted by Snapper J and Gizzy D, better known in Ireland and the EU as Analog Mind Field.

00:42:20 ►

And they asked if it was okay to use a sample from one of these podcasts on a new CD they were recording.

00:42:26 ►

You can find them on the web at analogmindfield.com,

00:42:31 ►

and there you can read among other things that they are known for, and I quote,

00:42:36 ►

blending elements of trip-hop, reggae, drum and bass, and ambient.

00:42:41 ►

Well, after reading that, I was intrigued and listened to some of their music, liked it,

00:42:45 ►

and said, sure, go ahead. And yesterday, they sent me a copy of the track they used the sample on and

00:42:52 ►

gave me permission to include it in a podcast. The track is called Revolutionary Heartbeat.

00:42:58 ►

Cool title, I think. And John Rabbit Bundrick, who played keyboard for the Who, also performs in that track.

00:43:07 ►

Now that probably won’t mean much to some of you younger salonners out there,

00:43:11 ►

but since I’m a long-time Who fan myself, it adds a nice touch for me.

00:43:16 ►

So I’m going to sign off now, but immediately after I do, I’m going to play Revolutionary Heartbeat for you.

00:43:22 ►

I guess I should mention that this track is from Analog Mindfield’s new CD

00:43:27 ►

titled A Fine Adjustment of Time that will be released in February of 2007.

00:43:34 ►

And I think you’ll find that the Terrence McKenna soundbite they include here

00:43:38 ►

fits right in with today’s topic.

00:43:41 ►

Before I go, however, I do want to thank Darren, La, Michael, Mark, Isis, Osiris, Thank you. And a special thank you to Brian, Nicole, and Darren who put me up, carted me around,

00:44:05 ►

and saw to it that I was well-costumed and having fun during my entire stay in the Seattle area.

00:44:12 ►

The vibe up there is really great, and I appreciate you helping me tap into it.

00:44:16 ►

And in addition to Analog Mindfield, whose music you’re about to hear,

00:44:21 ►

my thanks also go out to Chateau Hayouk for the use of their music here each week

00:44:25 ►

in the Psychedelic Salon.

00:44:27 ►

For now, this is Lorenzo

00:44:29 ►

signing off from Cyberdelic Space.

00:44:32 ►

Be well, my friends. Thank you. I’m going to try to find a way to get one of these road risks. I’m going to try to find a way to get one of these road risks.