Program Notes
Guest speakers: Annie Oak, Irina Alexander, and Bruce Damer
http://astore.amazon.com/matrixmasterscom/detail/1594774021“The Psychedelic Explorer’s Guide: Safe, Therapeutic, and Sacred Journeys”By James Fadiman
Today’s podcast features a panel discussion about some of the difficulties that can be encountered during a psychedelic experience. This panel discussion took place at the 2014 Palenque Norte Lectures at the Burning Man Festival and features Annie Oak, Irina Alexander and Bruce Damer. In addition to the featured speakers, several members of the audience also spoke about a few of their own difficult experiences with psychedelics and how they dealt with them. This would be a particularly good podcast to listen to before you attend a festival or other large event. And keep in mind, it isn’t just the inexperienced people who sometimes go off their rails. It can, and does, happen to highly experienced trippers as well. So be prepared!
“The Psychedelic Explorer’s Guide: Safe, Therapeutic, and Sacred Journeys”
By James Fadiman
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Transcript
00:00:00 ►
Greetings from cyberdelic space.
00:00:19 ►
This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.
00:00:23 ►
This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.
00:00:32 ►
And today our talk features a panel discussion that was held at the Palenque Norte Lectures at the 2014 Burning Man Festival.
00:00:39 ►
And it seems to me that right now, at the beginning of another summer of festivals and other big events,
00:00:49 ►
that maybe we should spend just a moment or two and take ourselves off autopilot and bring back to mind that if we’re planning on using psychoactive substances at one of these events,
00:00:53 ►
well, then we’d maybe better do a little upfront planning.
00:00:59 ►
Because your autopilot doesn’t always work correctly on a dusty playa at 2 in the morning when you can’t find your way back to camp.
00:01:02 ►
Does that sound like the voice of experience talking?
00:01:06 ►
Well, it should, because that actually happened to me my first year at Burning Man.
00:01:11 ►
Although I was 60 years old and already had a significant amount of experience with LSD,
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I made the rookie mistake of taking too big a dose one night. It’s really amazing how quickly
00:01:23 ►
things can go wrong for you in just a
00:01:26 ►
short period of time. But fortunately, my friends took care of me that night, and so I’m here to
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tell the tale. Now, this is my hard sell in trying to convince you to not only listen to what is said
00:01:38 ►
about safety today, but to play this talk for your campmates before you head to your events this
00:01:43 ►
summer, or this winter, depending on where you’re living right now.
00:01:48 ►
As you are about to hear the coordinator of the Planck and Orte lectures, Chris Pezza,
00:01:53 ►
say when he introduces our panel,
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it’s a fine line between good crazy and bad crazy.
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Let’s make it all good this year.
00:02:02 ►
Now here’s Pezza.
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Let’s make it all good this year.
00:02:03 ►
Now here’s Pez.
00:02:10 ►
For our next panel, we have a very interesting assemblage here.
00:02:13 ►
The panel is called Going Off the Psychedelic Rails,
00:02:18 ►
and it’s going to talk a little bit about that line between good crazy and bad crazy and when is too much too much or not.
00:02:23 ►
And for this panel today, we have Irina Alexander,
00:02:27 ►
who works with homeless youth in San Francisco.
00:02:30 ►
We have Annie Oak, a privacy activist
00:02:33 ►
and founder of the Full Circle Tea House
00:02:35 ►
and other cool stuff.
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And Dr. Bruce Dahmer will be joining us
00:02:40 ►
in just a few minutes.
00:02:41 ►
So with that, I’m happy to hand it off to Irina and Annie.
00:02:43 ►
Thank you. us in just a few minutes. So with that, I’m happy to hand it off to Irina and Annie.
00:02:56 ►
This is a very appropriate topic to think about during Burning Man. This morning while I was watching the sunrise, I was contemplating the existence of a man who was completely made out
00:03:02 ►
of white hair. And I was thinking about the line between sanity and insanity
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and realizing that it’s very thin.
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Especially here. And how important it is to have
00:03:15 ►
discussions like this. How important it is to talk about
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what does it mean to go off the psychedelic rails? I mean, we
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all know someone who has.
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Maybe we have ourselves.
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And hopefully we’ve gone, we’ve come back,
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and reintegrated that experience.
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So we’re going to talk a little bit about, at the burn,
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what it looks like to go off the psychedelic rails
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and how you can prevent that from happening.
00:03:42 ►
After the burn, what your community can do with each other
00:03:45 ►
to prevent one another from going off the rails.
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And when someone does go off the rails,
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what to do about it.
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Annie?
00:03:58 ►
Thanks, Irina.
00:04:00 ►
So here in this room,
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we all have a fair bit of experience just among ourselves.
00:04:07 ►
As Irina said, we’ve seen people get into some tricky situations out on the playa and then afterwards.
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And you all probably have some knowledge and some thoughts about this topic of your own.
00:04:23 ►
And so we’ll be asking you to contribute to this discussion as well.
00:04:29 ►
But we wanted to begin by giving perhaps some examples
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of some classic off-the-rails cases that we have seen close up.
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And some of these you’ll probably be familiar with.
00:05:11 ►
For example, combining certain substances can sometimes lead to exuberant ideas and actions that, in retrospect, seem unwise or unsafe. My favorite example is a certain participant who became very excited about the idea of taking a can of gasoline and adding it to the campfire inside of camp just to see what
00:05:17 ►
would happen because, you know, we all love flame effects.
00:05:21 ►
And that was perhaps an unwise thing to do, but seemed like a really great idea
00:05:28 ►
at the time. Some rash actions. We’ve all seen examples of rash action. We’ve also seen examples
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of people who come back from a psychedelic journey with an urgent message, an urgent message for many people around them that they must urgently share.
00:05:50 ►
My favorite example of this is a certain person who came back from a journey and decided that they needed to somehow stop the burning of the man and address the entire playa with their urgent message and tried to convince people to make this happen.
00:06:08 ►
And so it was a touch of urgency there as well.
00:06:13 ►
We often come back from these journeys
00:06:14 ►
with some very interesting information for ourselves,
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but sharing that in certain ways
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can be an example of going off the rails.
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We’ve also seen people kind of get stuck
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between the worlds a little bit, come back and say, well, I haven’t
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fully returned. I feel like I’m in a Bardo state where
00:06:36 ►
I’m no longer in the world of my journey, but I’m no
00:06:40 ►
longer really not yet in this world either fully.
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I feel like I’m in a transit zone at the airport,
00:06:47 ►
in the visionary airport out there.
00:06:50 ►
I’m in a transit lounge,
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and I haven’t really fully landed and come back.
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And then there’s the kind of garden variety.
00:07:01 ►
I forgot to drink water during my journey,
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and I’ve woken up really
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dehydrated and feeling a little less than myself, and I’m cranky, and I’m not really fully in my
00:07:13 ►
body, and I just really haven’t taken care of myself during my journey. It’s easy to do out
00:07:19 ►
here, to forget to drink water, eat, rest appropriately, you’re outraging around on the playa.
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So we’ve seen people go off the rails simply with heat stroke and dehydration,
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especially as hot as it’s been.
00:07:32 ►
So that’s an example of that. Yes.
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And then just to add on, of course, there are the most tragic of cases
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where people completely go off the rails and take their lives,
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which I know some of us in our community have experienced.
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After the burn, we’ve known some people who have decided that that’s where they need to go,
00:07:50 ►
and that’s something that we really need to talk about as a community,
00:07:54 ►
how to support that transition, how to stop that from happening.
00:07:59 ►
So as Irena said, we’ll start with some things that you can do at the burn
00:08:04 ►
to reduce the chances of this happening to you.
00:08:09 ►
And one of the simple things that you can do at the beginning of your journey is to make sure that you’ve had rest and water and food and that you’re physically and mentally prepared for the journey that you’re about to embark on.
00:08:27 ►
This sounds like a simple common sense approach,
00:08:30 ►
but it’s easy to forget when we’re out raging around out there.
00:08:33 ►
It’s also a really good idea to get a good night’s sleep
00:08:36 ►
before and after your journey
00:08:39 ►
so that you’re able to let your body and your spirit rest.
00:08:44 ►
And that’s kind of hard to do, and we’re so
00:08:45 ►
densely scheduled with parties and talks and art cars and all sorts of things happening
00:08:50 ►
out here. We all want to go to the dance camps and look at the burns and rage until dawn,
00:08:56 ►
but consider getting some rest before and after, and eating well, and hydrating during
00:09:02 ►
your journey. Another thing that’s helpful is setting an intention.
00:09:07 ►
When you go out on that outbound journey, set an intention for that journey, something that you
00:09:12 ►
would like in your life to be enhanced or really developed in that journey space. It’s a touchstone
00:09:20 ►
for you to keep coming back to during your experience. What is your intention for this journey? Do you want to think about your relationship with your family, with your partner?
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Do you want to enhance your creativity? Do you want to plan a next stage of your life? What is
00:09:35 ►
your intention? And hold on to that intention. It’s a beacon out there in the dust. Another thing
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that’s useful to do is to gather your
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community around you before
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you go on that outbound journey. Whoever
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you’re out here with, your
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friends, your campmates,
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and just perhaps let one or
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two trusted people know that you’re going
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on that outbound journey and to
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just to say, you know, just
00:10:01 ►
it might be really great for you to, if
00:10:04 ►
you wouldn’t mind checking back in with me in 5 or 6 or 12 or 24 hours,
00:10:09 ►
just to, you know, just be my pal, be my buddy.
00:10:12 ►
It’s the buddy system, and that’s really helpful.
00:10:15 ►
Keep your community close.
00:10:18 ►
Also, and this is an old kernel of wisdom from the early psychedelic era,
00:10:24 ►
choose your set and setting carefully. an old kernel of wisdom from the early psychedelic era.
00:10:27 ►
Choose your set and setting carefully.
00:10:29 ►
It’s really great to do that dose that you want to do
00:10:32 ►
and then go out and rage around the playa
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and hang out on the art cars
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and be in a really noisy, loud zone.
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But be sensitive to where you feel like
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you’re getting overwhelmed by stimulation.
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And be sensitive to that. Be honest with yourself. If you really feel like you’re getting overwhelmed by stimulation. And be sensitive to that.
00:10:46 ►
Be honest with yourself.
00:10:47 ►
If you really feel like you need a break from the noise and the blinky lights and the crowds,
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have an exit plan.
00:10:54 ►
Have a place where you think that you can go to just to chill out in the course of your journey
00:11:00 ►
and take a break from all the stimulation around you
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and then perhaps go back
00:11:05 ►
out into all of that wonderfulness out there. But think about a quiet place where you can gather
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yourself, even mid-journey. Set and setting is really critical. If you find yourself in a camp
00:11:17 ►
or an environment that is not working for you during your journey, get out of that environment.
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Just leave. Don’t worry about politeness.
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It’s your journey.
00:11:27 ►
Be careful of the energy around you,
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the people around you, the noise around you,
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the light around you.
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Be mindful of that.
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And also know that, of course,
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you’ve got some resources out here.
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The Tea House is a space that was created
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for people to rest and integrate during their
00:11:46 ►
journeys. It’s staffed with beautiful people. If you would like to help us serve tea, we welcome
00:11:53 ►
that as well. We have a sign-up form. Being in service is a good way to integrate and be able
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to give back after your journey. It’s a delicious way to feel fully participational,
00:12:08 ►
and it’s also a good place to take a nap before, during, and after,
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and then come to integrate and talk to people over a nice cup of tea.
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Tea is grounding.
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That’s why we do it.
00:12:19 ►
A couple final thoughts,
00:12:21 ►
and then I’m going to pass the mic back over to Irina.
00:12:26 ►
It’s been a noted phenomenon that people out here who are taking medication
00:12:32 ►
for some sort of psychological issue often stop taking their meds on the playa.
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People feel like, well, this is Burning Man.
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Why do I need to take my medication
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consider not doing that
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consider taking your regular medication
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and keeping your baseline state with your medication
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while you’re out here
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many people that we’ve seen go off the rails
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do it not just because they’re having a difficult
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psychedelic experience or emotional experience,
00:13:06 ►
but because they’ve stopped taking their medication. And it’s very difficult to see
00:13:11 ►
where their baseline is. Also be aware of your personal and family history. If you are in a
00:13:17 ►
family that has a history of some sort of mental or emotional psychological challenges, factor that into your journey.
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You know, you are predisposed towards more challenges
00:13:28 ►
in that realm as a result of your own personal family history.
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This has been well established.
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And then finally, consider lower dosages.
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Know your dosages, weigh your dosages,
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know the dosage that you’re taking.
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Know the substance that you’re taking.
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Know the source of that substance.
00:13:51 ►
And consider taking a pause.
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If you are on a journey and you’re thinking about doing another journey
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before you leave the playa, think about that carefully.
00:14:02 ►
Maybe you just need to take a pause and integrate that journey
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before you go on to another outbound journey
00:14:10 ►
and I think this segues into our next discussion
00:14:14 ►
about integration
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a journey is not what happens to you immediately
00:14:19 ►
after you take that substance and then after you come down
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a journey is your planning before you do that the experience of taking that substance and then after you come down. A journey is your planning before you do that,
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the experience of taking that substance, and then the rather long integration phase after
00:14:34 ►
you take that substance. The whole thing is the journey. People tend to focus just on
00:14:39 ►
the moment when you’re altered, but in fact it’s the whole arc of the experience. So I think Irina has some
00:14:46 ►
things to say about that. Thank you, Annie. So I wanted to talk about one thing in particular,
00:14:53 ►
and it was this event that we organized in the Bay Area called the Reintegration Station.
00:14:59 ►
And basically what it was, was a group of friends came together and we said, you know,
00:15:04 ►
our community has a really
00:15:05 ►
obvious need. And it’s not a need for another Burning Man party. It’s not a need for another
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decompression event. It’s a need for a real chill, let’s just reintegrate and hang out together and
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put all these pieces back into place. So what we did was we focused on one rule that my dear friend Greg
00:15:25 ►
Manning came up with, which is really simple, but it really focused our entire planning of the event.
00:15:31 ►
And that one rule was work from surplus. So we only worked from the surplus energy that we had.
00:15:38 ►
We took a while to organize the event. It didn’t happen directly after the burn,
00:15:43 ►
but we worked with what our community had to offer. So we brought together all of the therapists, the body workers, the cuddle
00:15:50 ►
therapists, shout out to Travis, the artists, yoga teachers, workshop leaders, everyone who had a
00:16:00 ►
little bit of energy left to give. And we brought them together into a space that was offered to us for free.
00:16:06 ►
And we held our own reintegration station.
00:16:08 ►
And it was amazing.
00:16:09 ►
It was really, really great.
00:16:10 ►
It was the first time we tried it out.
00:16:12 ►
But I just wanted to give that a plug
00:16:14 ►
as to something that maybe your community
00:16:18 ►
wants to think about.
00:16:19 ►
It’s relatively easy to organize.
00:16:22 ►
And you can scale it to whatever degree
00:16:24 ►
you need to scale it to.
00:16:26 ►
I mean, you can make it a giant, huge 200-person event, or you can make it three people having dinner at your house.
00:16:33 ►
But whatever it needs to be, find the needs of your community and be there to support each other.
00:16:39 ►
As someone who works as an outreach counselor for homeless youth, I know that the biggest difference between my clients and frankly us is that a lot of times they don’t have any connection to community.
00:16:52 ►
I have certain clients that I work with who will say, you know, you’re the only person I’ve talked
00:16:56 ►
to this entire week. And that’s my role is connecting them to some sort of sense of community,
00:17:02 ►
some sort of sense of society. And we need to do that for each other.
00:17:06 ►
And if we do that for each other after the burn,
00:17:08 ►
especially after this crazy week with blinky things in our cars everywhere,
00:17:13 ►
then I think that will really prevent ourselves from going off the rails
00:17:17 ►
in a bad way.
00:17:24 ►
Another thing that we’ve discussed,
00:17:26 ►
we checked in with some of our elders this morning
00:17:29 ►
and community members on this topic.
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We have a community here, too.
00:17:34 ►
There’s a beautiful camp of people around this tent,
00:17:39 ►
the Palenque Norte tent and the Full Circle Tea House.
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And that community of people hold us and allow us to do the work that we do.
00:17:48 ►
So we took our own advice.
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We’re eating our own dog food here.
00:17:51 ►
We checked in with them.
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And they had a couple really good pieces of advice as wisdom keepers.
00:17:59 ►
And one of the favorite pieces of advice that we all agree with is that you should probably not make any
00:18:07 ►
big important decision in your life for two months after a journey. No important decision.
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If you’re rolling on MDMA, consider not getting married. The week after that experience,
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even if it was a really great experience,
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we’ve all had them,
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think about that really carefully.
00:18:33 ►
Don’t make big decisions.
00:18:35 ►
Sit on that decision.
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Remember that you’re still in an integration phase
00:18:40 ►
and that will take several months.
00:18:43 ►
You’re still on the journey.
00:18:47 ►
Do not decide to necessarily switch careers, move away from your home, sell all of your possessions and go follow a guru.
00:18:55 ►
Just really think about it. Think about it carefully. Give yourself the space and time
00:19:02 ►
to sit with that experience and integrate that knowledge
00:19:05 ►
before you make a big
00:19:07 ►
decision.
00:19:09 ►
And you’ll be better off
00:19:12 ►
for it.
00:19:13 ►
The other piece of advice that also
00:19:16 ►
goes along with that is
00:19:17 ►
many of us come back from
00:19:19 ►
journeys with really profound
00:19:21 ►
personal insights.
00:19:23 ►
Information that we think would be very useful to other people.
00:19:30 ►
We call this the guru daddy phenomenon.
00:19:35 ►
Resist the temptation to be a guru daddy.
00:19:39 ►
Yes, you may have some very useful pieces of information.
00:19:45 ►
Consider not sharing that information with others
00:19:48 ►
or resisting the desire to share that information with others
00:19:52 ►
until you have fully integrated that information for your own purposes.
00:19:58 ►
It will be very tempting to want to share all your insights with all your beloveds,
00:20:03 ►
but just allow it to ripen in your own mind.
00:20:07 ►
And, you know, there’s always that old adage
00:20:10 ►
about things that happen to you,
00:20:13 ►
once you start talking about them,
00:20:14 ►
they sometimes lose a little luster and sacredness.
00:20:18 ►
So just keep it close
00:20:20 ►
and allow that deep knowledge and understanding,
00:20:23 ►
those visions, to just be yours for a little while and ripen inside you
00:20:29 ►
before you’re willing and able and wanting to share them with others.
00:20:33 ►
It’s a good piece of advice from our elders,
00:20:36 ►
and we think that’s a good piece of advice to pass on here.
00:20:43 ►
So then we come down to what to do when someone does go off the rails we can put all of this harm
00:20:48 ►
reduction stuff into place but still one way or another someone ends up losing their shit
00:20:53 ►
and this is this is a tricky question because it really depends it’s a case-by-case thing right
00:21:03 ►
what does the community do if someone is in guru mode nonstop
00:21:07 ►
two months after the event, right?
00:21:11 ►
One of the things that I’ve been working on through Maps
00:21:15 ►
is answering AskMaps emails.
00:21:17 ►
So it’s AskMaps at Maps.org.
00:21:21 ►
It’s an email address that people email telling me about their crazy DMT experiences
00:21:27 ►
and how they have to suddenly work for MAPS starting tomorrow or else God will be angry at them.
00:21:36 ►
Or they email me saying, you know, I had this really difficult psychedelic experience
00:21:40 ►
and I need to find someone to reintegrate it with.
00:21:43 ►
Do you know anyone in my area who’s able to do
00:21:46 ►
that with me? And every once
00:21:48 ►
in a while I am able to link people up
00:21:50 ►
with others. It’s definitely still a
00:21:52 ►
work in progress. But
00:21:53 ►
if you are someone who’s
00:21:56 ►
willing to offer that kind of support
00:21:57 ►
or someone who’s seeking that kind
00:22:00 ►
of support, you know,
00:22:02 ►
shoot me an email.
00:22:03 ►
Askmaps at maps.org and we’ll see what we can do.
00:22:11 ►
But yeah, I think that this is a point where we can kind of open it up a little more for discussion
00:22:18 ►
about what to do when someone actually does go off the rails.
00:22:24 ►
Because it’s a tough one.
00:22:25 ►
It’s a tough one.
00:22:26 ►
There are definitely a lot of different modalities
00:22:27 ►
that you can try to refer people to.
00:22:29 ►
There’s not just talk therapy.
00:22:31 ►
There’s body work.
00:22:32 ►
There’s cuddle therapy.
00:22:33 ►
There’s dancing.
00:22:34 ►
There’s shamanic work.
00:22:37 ►
But it’s really hard to see someone go through that in your community
00:22:40 ►
and not know how to support them.
00:22:44 ►
Chris, do you want to tell people who may not know what
00:22:46 ►
maps is maps is the multidisciplinary association for psychedelic studies and it’s a the top
00:22:55 ►
research organization for psychedelics right now they’re doing a lot of research
00:22:59 ►
on ptsd and mdma really breakthrough. And they run the Zendo,
00:23:06 ►
which is a really great space for integration
00:23:08 ►
and one-on-one support that’s over at 230 and E
00:23:13 ►
on the other side of the city, our sister space.
00:23:19 ►
And it’s staffed by a really great group of people,
00:23:22 ►
and we highly, highly recommend you go visit them
00:23:25 ►
if you feel like you need their services.
00:23:27 ►
Really skilled and compassionate people.
00:23:30 ►
One easy piece of advice for folks
00:23:35 ►
who may feel like they’re going off the psychedelic rails
00:23:38 ►
when they return from Burning Man or know those who are,
00:23:41 ►
check in with people.
00:23:43 ►
If you see somebody in your camp who you think might be in a vulnerable and tricky place, check in with people. If you see somebody in your camp who you think
00:23:45 ►
might be in a vulnerable and tricky place, check in with them when you all get back home.
00:23:51 ►
Just ping them. Just say, hi, that was really fun. How are you? Do you want to go out and get some
00:23:58 ►
tea or go have lunch or take a bike ride in the park, whatever you do, just let them know that you’re there for them so that they don’t feel alone, so that if they’re ready to talk about what happened
00:24:10 ►
to them, they have somebody there. It’s difficult to leave Burning Man and go back into the default
00:24:16 ►
world and try to explain this to people who may not understand what Burning Man is like.
00:24:22 ►
So your community, your campers, your friends that you’re out here with,
00:24:26 ►
you’re a really important resource.
00:24:28 ►
So check in with people who you think need a check-in
00:24:30 ►
and just be there for them
00:24:34 ►
and bond with your common experience.
00:24:37 ►
I think that’s really helpful.
00:24:39 ►
Make a buddy system before you go to the burn.
00:24:42 ►
Say, okay, you, me, we’re checking in after the burn. I think
00:24:46 ►
that’s a really helpful way to go about it. Have we seen Bruce Dahmer? Bruce was giving another
00:24:52 ►
talk at another location. He’s a very busy speaker. And so we’re hoping that he’ll be able to join us
00:24:58 ►
for the end of this talk. And once he arrives, if he does, we’ll hand him the mic and he’ll be able to give his two cents as well
00:25:06 ►
so we’d like to
00:25:10 ►
open up the
00:25:11 ►
floor for suggestions
00:25:14 ►
what we’re going to ask
00:25:15 ►
is that you not relay
00:25:18 ►
your own experience but that
00:25:20 ►
you give a very succinct
00:25:22 ►
piece of advice
00:25:23 ►
that others may find helpful.
00:25:28 ►
And we’d like to see if anyone has a piece of advice
00:25:32 ►
they’d like to share.
00:25:34 ►
Just one thing that I’d like to recommend to everyone.
00:25:37 ►
This is a digital voice recorder.
00:25:39 ►
They’re not that expensive.
00:25:41 ►
You can get them now cheap, a low-quality one.
00:25:44 ►
This is great if you’re
00:25:46 ►
in some kind of altered state and you’re having these amazing insights that you may not remember
00:25:51 ►
when you come back down. This is the greatest thing. You can talk into this for six hours,
00:25:56 ►
for eight hours, and then come down two weeks later, you listen to the whole thing. It can
00:26:02 ►
be amazing. Some of it’s gib gibberish sometimes but it’s this amazing wisdom
00:26:06 ►
you can find on here
00:26:07 ►
that you’re like wow
00:26:08 ►
I didn’t remember that at all
00:26:09 ►
but now that I hear it
00:26:10 ►
it all comes right back
00:26:12 ►
so
00:26:12 ►
journaling also a good idea
00:26:19 ►
I’ve noticed that with
00:26:23 ►
myself and maybe other people that sometimes going off the rails
00:26:27 ►
involves this sort of um dogmatic belief in a new truth so you find something and then you are so
00:26:33 ►
sure that your experience is true and nothing else about it is true and i find that sort of
00:26:40 ►
absolute commitment to some radical new truth can be sometimes really harmful.
00:26:46 ►
And I always like to check in with myself and just say, is this 100% definitely true?
00:26:52 ►
And ask myself that to see if there’s a little wiggle room in there.
00:26:58 ►
And sometimes that can sort of loosen up these sort of maybe obsessive thoughts or compulsions
00:27:04 ►
that might come from a very profound experience
00:27:06 ►
that has convinced you of something very radical
00:27:09 ►
that may or may not be helpful for you.
00:27:13 ►
That’s a great piece of advice.
00:27:15 ►
Thank you.
00:27:17 ►
Hello.
00:27:19 ►
I’m from Austin a lot of the time.
00:27:21 ►
And the advice I have is we’ve been establishing a community
00:27:26 ►
there for several years. And one of the most beneficial things we’ve done now and have
00:27:30 ►
become part of the regular expectation is to have potluck dinners as soon as we can
00:27:36 ►
after these events and festivals and ceremonies. And just getting together without a lot of
00:27:42 ►
psychedelic noise and just being with each other and watching slides of whatever it was.
00:27:48 ►
It’s amazing how evocative it is.
00:27:50 ►
But just sitting around and sharing meals on a regular basis now
00:27:53 ►
has formed another type of sociality among us,
00:27:57 ►
and it’s been incredibly valuable.
00:27:59 ►
So take care of the community, invite each other over,
00:28:03 ►
take the responsibility of hosting a dinner,
00:28:06 ►
and it’ll launch other new beginnings to the group.
00:28:11 ►
It’s a different thing when you run off and trip together for a weekend.
00:28:15 ►
But then if you have like five or six dinners over the course of a year,
00:28:19 ►
you really get to know people,
00:28:21 ►
and you get to know what’s going on in their minds
00:28:23 ►
and what things they’ve obsessed over and what things they’ve opened to and it’s been very helpful for us so
00:28:28 ►
anyone have stories of someone who has gone off the rails
00:28:37 ►
and who their community has successfully brought back? Hey, so I went off the rails and my community brought me back. I was at a company
00:28:52 ►
camp out back in the 1980s for a Silicon Valley company. We all went down to Big Sur, you know,
00:28:59 ►
and hung out in the creek and drank beer and cooked hot dogs. And that evening, I took a bunch
00:29:07 ►
of white powder that came in a vial that a friend had given me, and he told me it was
00:29:12 ►
about two doses. But it was more like about ten, and I split it with somebody. And I had, you know, I didn’t, couldn’t really perceive my physical surroundings anymore,
00:29:30 ►
but I was kind of an energy being out among the galaxies and interacting with other energy beings.
00:29:39 ►
Apparently, based on later evidence, I was rolling around in the ground,
00:29:44 ►
you know, shouting at the top of my lungs
00:29:47 ►
and throwing up on myself
00:29:48 ►
so my friends kind of
00:29:51 ►
they got concerned about me
00:29:53 ►
and they slugged me to slow me down a little
00:29:56 ►
which I do vaguely remember
00:29:59 ►
and then they put me in the back of their car
00:30:02 ►
and took me to the hospital in Monterey
00:30:04 ►
and the folks in Monterey.
00:30:07 ►
And the folks in Monterey found the vial in my pocket and said, it’s okay, he’ll sleep it off, take him home.
00:30:12 ►
So I next came back to consciousness in my bed in Palo Alto.
00:30:18 ►
And I had driven a motorcycle to Big Sur.
00:30:21 ►
So now I’m waking up in my bed there.
00:30:23 ►
It’s taking me an hour to get up the gumption
00:30:25 ►
to get out of bed and go to the bathroom.
00:30:28 ►
I’m really that fuzzy.
00:30:30 ►
And I’m wondering now, okay,
00:30:32 ►
did I ride the motorcycle back and not remember it?
00:30:37 ►
My hair was, like, covered in little tiny sticks.
00:30:42 ►
It took three days to get them all out of my hair.
00:30:44 ►
I had all these little scratches all over my body
00:30:46 ►
from rolling around in the wilderness.
00:30:49 ►
And I ended up okay.
00:30:54 ►
But I went kind of sheepishly into work on Monday morning,
00:30:59 ►
afraid people were really going to come down on me
00:31:02 ►
for going off the rails at the company picnic.
00:31:08 ►
It wasn’t the official company picnic.
00:31:11 ►
It was just like 40 people from the company.
00:31:15 ►
And instead, actually, they were so loving and so welcoming.
00:31:19 ►
They said, we were so worried about you.
00:31:21 ►
We’re so happy to see you here reporting chipper for work on Monday morning.
00:31:26 ►
You know, they were so kind.
00:31:28 ►
They took care of me.
00:31:29 ►
And so, you know, the lesson for me is,
00:31:32 ►
you know, if you’re going to make the mistakes,
00:31:35 ►
you know, not knowing the source of your drugs,
00:31:37 ►
not knowing the dosage,
00:31:38 ►
not even knowing exactly what drug it might be, perhaps,
00:31:42 ►
and you go off the rails,
00:31:43 ►
do it in an environment where you’re
00:31:45 ►
surrounded by friends.
00:31:54 ►
Wow. Good stories, people. Keep them coming.
00:31:59 ►
Try not to get caught up in any sense of shame. You know? Like this is, very few people
00:32:06 ►
get through a life of
00:32:07 ►
journeying with psychedelics without
00:32:10 ►
going off the rails at least once.
00:32:13 ►
So
00:32:13 ►
if it happens to you,
00:32:16 ►
know that you have a lot of company
00:32:18 ►
out there.
00:32:19 ►
And be kind to yourself.
00:32:22 ►
Don’t be too hard on yourself.
00:32:24 ►
Ask for help. Don’t be ashamed hard on yourself. Ask for help.
00:32:27 ►
Don’t be ashamed to reach out to your community.
00:32:34 ►
And give yourself some love for having the courage to go on that outbound journey.
00:32:41 ►
And also maybe if you feel like your community has the capacity to do it,
00:32:45 ►
think about doing intentional sits where one person is going off the rails on purpose and two people are sitting with them and really holding down the space. That can
00:32:50 ►
really transform a lot of shit, let me tell you. So I was just thinking about how certain people
00:33:01 ►
can work with certain substances and then other substances don’t agree with them.
00:33:08 ►
And my advice is just don’t force
00:33:10 ►
or continue to keep forcing usage
00:33:13 ►
of something that isn’t agreeing with you
00:33:15 ►
because it doesn’t work out great.
00:33:19 ►
And I think you just need to realize
00:33:20 ►
that maybe you’re not friends with that substance
00:33:23 ►
and move on.
00:33:29 ►
I have a question, if I may.
00:33:33 ►
So we’re talking a lot about communities, but there are people that are loners in their trips.
00:33:40 ►
They don’t like to be in the community.
00:33:42 ►
trips, you know, they don’t like to be in the community, the community
00:33:43 ►
scares them away and actually
00:33:45 ►
makes the experience
00:33:48 ►
hard.
00:33:50 ►
So what would be the
00:33:52 ►
tools that can be used
00:33:53 ►
when you’re alone, you know, and you
00:33:55 ►
want to be alone, you don’t want to
00:33:58 ►
be in the setting of people
00:33:59 ►
for various reasons.
00:34:03 ►
After
00:34:03 ►
or?
00:34:05 ►
After doing the process in particular,
00:34:08 ►
because then you’re the most vulnerable probably.
00:34:11 ►
Yeah, and after, yes, you know, the aftercare.
00:34:14 ►
When you’re alone, you’re not connected to anybody
00:34:16 ►
and basically you don’t want to be connected as well.
00:34:21 ►
I’m going to think about that one while I walk over here.
00:34:33 ►
I mean, self-care in itself just isn’t talked about enough I just uh two birthday parties ago I had everyone walk in and write on a little star something nice that they were going to do for
00:34:38 ►
themselves that day as a present to me you know and, and something as simple as that, as simple as just like
00:34:45 ►
doing something and making it, making it an event for yourself, making it a celebration of yourself.
00:34:53 ►
Really, if you’re alone, then it’s just tapping into that self-love and self-care.
00:34:58 ►
And if you don’t have community support, you’re going to have to get really, really good at just going back
00:35:05 ►
inward, turning back in, working on meditation practices during the actual trip, breathing
00:35:15 ►
exercises, grounding meditations, yoga, massage work.
00:35:21 ►
yoga massage work
00:35:23 ►
I myself like to go to the wilderness
00:35:27 ►
I find that the land is very healing and grounding
00:35:30 ►
if you don’t want to be among people
00:35:32 ►
go be among the other species
00:35:34 ►
and ask them to help
00:35:38 ►
put you back together
00:35:41 ►
and spend some time out in the forest
00:35:44 ►
sleeping under the stars
00:35:47 ►
and grounding on the earth.
00:35:50 ►
The other thing I would recommend
00:35:52 ►
in the far other end of the continuum
00:35:55 ►
is get online.
00:35:57 ►
If you feel more comfortable
00:35:59 ►
not asking for assistance
00:36:02 ►
in a face-to-face way, you can always get online and reach out and ask for assistance in a face-to-face way.
00:36:05 ►
You can always get online and reach out
00:36:08 ►
and ask for assistance on online forums.
00:36:12 ►
We all love Arrowhead.
00:36:13 ►
We want to give a shout-out to Earth and Fire Arrowhead
00:36:16 ►
for putting together trip reports.
00:36:22 ►
They’re here on the playa.
00:36:24 ►
They spoke in the tea house with other people
00:36:27 ►
in a discussion forum a few days ago.
00:36:31 ►
But you can go on to arrowwood.org
00:36:35 ►
and really post your own experiences
00:36:39 ►
and reach out to others,
00:36:40 ►
and there are other online venues you can do that as well.
00:36:46 ►
I just wanted to add a little tidbit about harm reduction to the topic of doing that sort of
00:36:52 ►
exploration on your own. I think at a certain point to be responsible for your own well-being
00:36:58 ►
and the well-being of others, you need to draw the line on how far you want to go out if you’re
00:37:02 ►
not willing to have support because it’s one thing to have a mild experience on your own because you’re not comfortable with the community.
00:37:09 ►
But to really go into a very deep journey with no support can be incredibly dangerous,
00:37:15 ►
physically dangerous for yourself or for others.
00:37:17 ►
And I would just highly recommend that if someone’s interested in, you know,
00:37:21 ►
purposefully getting to the point where they might go off the rails,
00:37:25 ►
to really not do that alone because it can be incredibly dangerous.
00:37:33 ►
And I just wanted to add that as a little tidbit about harm reduction.
00:37:38 ►
Just adding on to that, how important would you say it is to have a trip that are during a trip
00:37:43 ►
for somebody who is relatively inexperienced
00:37:46 ►
versus somebody who’s, say,
00:37:48 ►
more experienced? I know
00:37:49 ►
there’s a lot of variables in place, but how
00:37:51 ►
important is having a trip sitter
00:37:53 ►
in place during a psychedelic
00:37:56 ►
journey?
00:38:00 ►
I think it’s very important. It depends
00:38:02 ►
what you mean by sitter.
00:38:04 ►
Some people, especially if they’re inexperienced,
00:38:08 ►
certainly want people around them who are their friends,
00:38:11 ►
who know them, know their history, can support them.
00:38:16 ►
If it’s an intentional journey, as Irina was talking about,
00:38:20 ►
and it’s just that person journeying
00:38:22 ►
and the sitter is not journeying but with them.
00:38:26 ►
Also a very good model for very deep intentional work
00:38:29 ►
because if your sitter is at baseline,
00:38:32 ►
your sitter can be the grounding energy for you,
00:38:35 ►
especially if you’re unexperienced.
00:38:37 ►
So it’s a good way for people just beginning
00:38:40 ►
those kinds of journeys to start out.
00:38:43 ►
I think it’s a really good point.
00:38:46 ►
And remember that the people around you on your journey,
00:38:50 ►
if they’re journeying as well,
00:38:52 ►
are also in the middle of their process also.
00:38:56 ►
I also wanted to add, remember the impact of your journey
00:38:59 ►
and the outcome of your journey on other people in your life,
00:39:03 ►
on your friends, on your family.
00:39:07 ►
You know, there’s a lot of judgment in some communities,
00:39:12 ►
negative feelings about the substances that we’re talking about.
00:39:16 ►
And so there’s a potential for people to judge you for going on these journeys.
00:39:22 ►
They will be concerned about you.
00:39:24 ►
They may be fearful for you. They may be fearful for you.
00:39:26 ►
They may think that what you’re doing is dangerous. So you have to factor that in and know that
00:39:31 ►
they’re coming from a place of concern and love and that if you come back and you are off the
00:39:38 ►
rails, they’re going to act out of their concern in ways that may be challenging because they’re worried about you.
00:39:46 ►
So think carefully about your impact after your journey on those around you who might not be
00:39:53 ►
as informed about these substances as other people in your lives. That’s why it’s important
00:39:59 ►
to have a community who knows about these kinds of journeys and can support you.
00:40:04 ►
who knows about these kinds of journeys and can support you.
00:40:09 ►
Just really quick, one more note on that.
00:40:14 ►
I find that a journey with a sitter is a completely different experience.
00:40:17 ►
It lets you go so many layers deeper.
00:40:19 ►
It’s not that it’s better, it’s just different.
00:40:21 ►
If that’s the intention that you’re going for,
00:40:23 ►
is doing some really intense inner deep work,
00:40:26 ►
then knowing that someone will literally hold your hand and walk you to the bathroom is really helpful because then that
00:40:30 ►
part of your brain can just let go and you can go into it so um yeah i’d say it’s different but
00:40:37 ►
definitely having some sort of safe container for it is necessary no matter what. And another addition to the online resources is BlueLight.
00:40:47 ►
BlueLight.ru.
00:40:49 ►
It’s a really, really great community for just discussing anything drug-related.
00:40:54 ►
And mixing substances.
00:40:56 ►
And then Justin.
00:40:59 ►
BlueLight.ru.
00:41:01 ►
It’s a really good resource.
00:41:04 ►
Mixing substances. Tricky. Rule of thumb. dot r u it’s a really good resource mixing substances
00:41:05 ►
tricky
00:41:06 ►
rule of thumb mixing anything
00:41:10 ►
with alcohol not
00:41:12 ►
advised
00:41:12 ►
there’s a reason we run a tea house
00:41:15 ►
and not an alcohol bar
00:41:17 ►
there are a lot of bars out here
00:41:19 ►
you think
00:41:22 ►
very very very carefully
00:41:23 ►
before you mix any psychedelic substance
00:41:27 ►
or even non-psychedelic substance in alcohol.
00:41:30 ►
The potential for a bad outcome is much, much higher.
00:41:35 ►
And really, if you’re going to drink the night before you have a journey,
00:41:38 ►
be fully down from that alcohol and fully fueled up with good food, with good food, water, and rest, it has a
00:41:47 ►
residual effect on you. I myself do very little drinking out here on the playa, an occasional
00:41:52 ►
glass of champagne, but, you know, very little because I can’t rehydrate fast enough and I just
00:42:00 ►
find it debilitating. But mixing anything with alcohol, not a good idea.
00:42:07 ►
Also, in general, mixing substances such as psilocybin and LSD together,
00:42:18 ►
generally not advised.
00:42:20 ►
What a waste of good substances.
00:42:22 ►
Why not do it one at a time and really, if you wish,
00:42:26 ►
explore each substance separately?
00:42:30 ►
The potential for bad outcomes in mixing substances
00:42:34 ►
that each have their own deep footprint
00:42:36 ►
can be really tricky and debilitating.
00:42:44 ►
And I would also just point out that the majority of the guests at the Zendo
00:42:48 ►
have mixed several substances.
00:42:51 ►
A lot of times don’t remember what substances they have mixed.
00:42:54 ►
But.
00:43:01 ►
When you said the three magic words, ask for help,
00:43:04 ►
that kind of lit a light bulb.
00:43:07 ►
My friends know if I’ve stopped dancing and I don’t ask for help, that’s probably when I need it the most.
00:43:15 ►
And I don’t know if that’s common to anyone else.
00:43:18 ►
But I’ve found that just asking for help can be a huge release.
00:43:22 ►
It’s sort of a surrender to what you’re going through.
00:43:25 ►
You’re like, okay, bring it on. I’m going to ask for help can be a huge release. It’s sort of a surrender to what you’re going through. You’re like, okay, bring it on.
00:43:27 ►
I’m going to ask for help.
00:43:28 ►
And that probably goes into thinking about who you’re journeying with
00:43:33 ►
and that if you honestly, before you start your journey,
00:43:38 ►
don’t feel like you’re with people that you can ask for help,
00:43:40 ►
you might rethink what you’re about to do
00:43:43 ►
because these things can get very interesting.
00:43:48 ►
And you want to be with kindred souls. And it doesn’t mean everybody’s always going to be on
00:43:52 ►
parallel paths. But you come back to that same, well, basically a love for each other. And you
00:43:57 ►
want to see to help each other through what you’re, whether it’s the only way out is through,
00:44:02 ►
or you’re a cancer and you like to walk around things.
00:44:06 ►
Yeah, just those three magic words, asking for help,
00:44:08 ►
I find very magical for me.
00:44:10 ►
And for the closing argument,
00:44:14 ►
Bruce Dahmer, everyone.
00:44:22 ►
What was the question?
00:44:26 ►
Boy, you know,
00:44:29 ►
don’t the very next day decide to paint your house green,
00:44:37 ►
change your gender, tell your boss off,
00:44:42 ►
anything like that. Give it give it time so about uh people who are taking
00:44:52 ►
prescription medication for mental illness so what’s known about interactions uh with like
00:45:00 ►
classical psychedelics like lsd and mushrooms or um the non-classical psychedelics, a lot of the designer drugs,
00:45:07 ►
and any potential interactions with antidepressants or anxiety drugs
00:45:14 ►
or other things that people might be taking normally
00:45:17 ►
that they might decide to stop taking
00:45:20 ►
because they’re thinking about taking psychedelics
00:45:22 ►
and concerned about the mixing aspect?
00:45:36 ►
So stopping taking mental health meds in itself is just a risky thing to do, SSRIs in particular.
00:45:46 ►
If you stop them before a psychedelic experience, then that can create serotonin depletion that can send you into a really bad place.
00:45:48 ►
It’s a really, really tricky thing.
00:45:54 ►
A lot of times people will stop taking their SSRIs, antidepressants, before the burn and end up in a really bad place after the burn.
00:45:57 ►
I’ve seen it happen plenty of times.
00:46:02 ►
Yeah, that’s hard because then a lot of times if they don’t
00:46:08 ►
and they try to kind of tag along with the team
00:46:11 ►
and also join the psychedelic adventure,
00:46:13 ►
it just doesn’t do anything for them
00:46:15 ►
because those receptors are all blocked.
00:46:17 ►
So it’s hard.
00:46:20 ►
And really, hopefully we’ll get to a point
00:46:22 ►
where we’ll be able to talk to our doctors about that.
00:46:24 ►
And I really encourage people to talk to doctors about it and be open and honest with your doctor
00:46:29 ►
about what’s going on if you can’t be completely open and honest say hey I’m you know gonna go
00:46:35 ►
hike a rigorous mountain and I’ve decided that while I’m hiking I’m going to stop taking my medication.
00:46:47 ►
What is your recommendation for that process?
00:46:50 ►
Make up a story, but let them know what’s going on and see if they have any advice.
00:46:53 ►
Yeah, that’s great advice.
00:46:55 ►
Find a doctor you can really talk to and be honest with.
00:46:59 ►
You know, there is such a thing as medical privacy,
00:47:01 ►
and you have the right to have a private conversation with a medical provider
00:47:07 ►
and be honest about the substances that you’re thinking of taking or want to take
00:47:12 ►
and their potential impact on other medications or medical conditions that you have.
00:47:20 ►
If you don’t have such a doctor, find one.
00:47:22 ►
And if you don’t have such a doctor, find one.
00:47:31 ►
It’s your right and kind of your duty to know what those implications are.
00:47:34 ►
And those doctors are out there.
00:47:35 ►
We know them. And we’re hoping that you can find them as well.
00:47:42 ►
And one thing I will say, MDMA is a particularly tricky substance,
00:47:49 ►
especially because it has an impact on the temperature regulation in your body. And
00:47:56 ►
especially out here where it’s been very hot, it can be a very tricky substance. It’s an amphetamine.
00:48:02 ►
It can be a very tricky substance.
00:48:03 ►
It’s an amphetamine.
00:48:08 ►
So it places that extra load on your system.
00:48:15 ►
If you have heart conditions or other medical conditions for which stimulants like amphetamines are not advised,
00:48:18 ►
think carefully about that substance in particular.
00:48:23 ►
Also consider not doing a journey in the heat of the day.
00:48:28 ►
It’s been so hot out there.
00:48:30 ►
It’s really hard to stay adequately hydrated.
00:48:33 ►
Nighttime, when it’s cooler, can be a better choice.
00:48:37 ►
Of course, there are lots of blinky lights
00:48:39 ►
and things that can be intense and stimulating,
00:48:42 ►
but consider going on your journeys
00:48:46 ►
when it’s not 103 degrees outside
00:48:49 ►
and you’re walking around out on the playa.
00:48:52 ►
It’s just an extra load on your entire body.
00:48:56 ►
Avoid hot tubs.
00:48:59 ►
Avoid hot tubs.
00:49:01 ►
If you’re on MDMA and it’s already messing
00:49:03 ►
with the temperature regulation in your body
00:49:06 ►
and maybe you’re not fully rehydrating as you should
00:49:09 ►
and you’re just rolling and having a great old time,
00:49:11 ►
think carefully about getting in that hot tub
00:49:14 ►
because it’s going to increase the temperature of your body, of course,
00:49:19 ►
and it might heat stroke you.
00:49:23 ►
Don’t get into a hot tub alone while you’re on a substance ever.
00:49:29 ►
And if you see a friend heading towards the hot tub alone
00:49:32 ►
and they’re on that substance, go with them.
00:49:35 ►
You might want to try to talk them out of it.
00:49:37 ►
But be careful.
00:49:39 ►
They’re alluring but potentially very dangerous.
00:49:43 ►
Thank you for mentioning that.
00:49:43 ►
They’re alluring, but potentially very dangerous.
00:49:44 ►
Thank you for mentioning that.
00:49:50 ►
If you talk to medical people at Harbin Hot Springs,
00:49:57 ►
the super hot pool has been the cause of several emergencies, you know, frequent, and they know what’s causing it,
00:50:02 ►
that super hot pool there at Harbin.
00:50:08 ►
For less experienced folks,
00:50:12 ►
the impact of sort of the emotional preparation before going on a journey,
00:50:18 ►
are there any sort of things to look out for concerning anxiety or depression
00:50:24 ►
that we should consider
00:50:26 ►
not taking a journey at that time?
00:50:30 ►
I think you just answered
00:50:32 ►
your own question.
00:50:34 ►
Set and setting.
00:50:35 ►
If you’re already feeling anxious
00:50:37 ►
or depressed
00:50:39 ►
or not in a centered place,
00:50:42 ►
maybe you shouldn’t go on that journey.
00:50:47 ►
The journey is just a reflection of what’s going on
00:50:50 ►
often inside your own head,
00:50:52 ►
and it may not be the thing that you need to return to yourself.
00:50:56 ►
You might need to address that anxiety and that depression
00:50:59 ►
in other ways before you decide to get altered
00:51:03 ►
and then use that journey later as a way to
00:51:06 ►
explore the feelings after you’ve been able to address them will put you at a greater risk for
00:51:14 ►
perhaps a negative outcome in your journey put yourself in a good place first or work towards that good place yeah i i think so too um unless that’s your
00:51:29 ►
day-to-day state of being and that’s something that you want to work through intentionally with
00:51:34 ►
that medicine then there’s been a lot of work done with with that kind of stuff so so yeah i
00:51:41 ►
think it’s all about the container and the space. And a really good book recommendation is
00:51:45 ►
The Psychedelic Explorer’s Guide by James Fadiman.
00:51:48 ►
It’s a good thorough book about how to set the space just right beforehand
00:51:53 ►
and how to really process the trip.
00:51:57 ►
A lot of the work that’s been done with, say, MDMA and PTSD therapy
00:52:02 ►
or MDMA or other substances,
00:52:07 ►
has been done in combination with talk therapy.
00:52:11 ►
So it’s really helpful to perhaps find a therapist that you can work with
00:52:16 ►
who you can work with in combination with the substance
00:52:22 ►
and have both approaches working for you
00:52:25 ►
to try to sort through the anxiety or depression
00:52:27 ►
that you’re working with.
00:52:30 ►
And even if the therapist isn’t willing to actually be there
00:52:33 ►
while you’re going through the experience,
00:52:35 ►
having a therapist who’s open to hearing about those kind of journeys
00:52:38 ►
after you’ve come back from them is really crucial.
00:52:40 ►
And that’s something personally that I ask my therapist about.
00:52:43 ►
But as I’m interviewing them to find a new therapist, I say, hey, what are you going to say to me if I come to you and start telling you about a really important LSD experience that I had last night?
00:52:53 ►
And my therapist is awesome.
00:52:56 ►
So with that, yeah, we’re wrapping it up.
00:53:00 ►
And really the grounding force community, check in with each other after the burn.
00:53:05 ►
Make sure that we’re all good.
00:53:07 ►
Watch each other’s backs.
00:53:09 ►
We got this.
00:53:18 ►
Thank you, guys.
00:53:21 ►
You’re listening to The Psychedelic Salon,
00:53:24 ►
where people are changing their lives one thought at a time.
00:53:28 ►
Did you notice how much good advice came from the audience during this talk?
00:53:32 ►
I think that you’re going to find that if you get a group of people together to discuss psychedelic safety,
00:53:38 ►
that you’re going to hear some new ideas, at least shaped in ways that you hadn’t thought of before,
00:53:46 ►
some new ideas, at least shaped in ways that you hadn’t thought of before, and that those ideas may give your group a, well, a little more resilience should a challenge ever arise during one of these
00:53:51 ►
events. And as Annie said, if you stay involved with the psychedelic community long enough,
00:53:57 ►
there is an almost certainty that, well, at one time or another, you, yes you, will have a flame out of some kind.
00:54:08 ►
It happens to the best of us, sometimes more than once.
00:54:12 ►
And that’s why it’s so important to become involved with others in our community.
00:54:18 ►
And this is coming from someone who has basically been a loner when it comes to tripping.
00:54:23 ►
But at festivals, for sure, there is most definitely safety in numbers. So find the others.
00:54:24 ►
for sure, there is most definitely safety in numbers, so find the others.
00:54:31 ►
And I have to admit to smiling to myself a little when an audience member brought up the issue of having a support group for yourself if you plan on doing a heroic dose, or as I believe he said,
00:54:38 ►
intentionally going off the rails. Anyhow, I don’t think anybody does that intentionally.
00:54:46 ►
anyhow I don’t think anybody does that intentionally but what made me smile is how gracious and courteous he was in recommending the support group as a safety issue which it
00:54:52 ►
most definitely is by the way however there are also people like me the less enlightened
00:54:59 ►
who sometimes get called upon to deal with someone who has gone badly off their rails.
00:55:08 ►
And it’s quite often a good friend who should have known better.
00:55:13 ►
And while the safety of the person and the rest of us was our first order,
00:55:19 ►
I am ashamed to admit that, well, I was royally pissed off a few times at having this jerk or that jerk ruin my trip.
00:55:22 ►
Of course, the reason that I didn’t display my anger was
00:55:25 ►
because my friends would be more than happy to remind me that they once had to help me out of
00:55:31 ►
a deep hole as well. What goes around comes around, I’ve been told. Anyway, save your heroic trips for
00:55:38 ►
times when they won’t ruin somebody else’s trip, should you slip off your rails a bit.
00:55:44 ►
And hey, let’s not forget the fact that out of the thousands of psychedelic experiences
00:55:49 ►
that take place every day, the number of bad trips is very, very small.
00:55:53 ►
Bad trips happen, and we should be prepared to deal with them, both our own and those
00:55:58 ►
of others.
00:55:59 ►
So be prepared, but let’s also focus on all of the good experiences that are being had
00:56:04 ►
each and every day by psychonauts all around the world.
00:56:08 ►
And speaking of good experiences, in just a few days, the Women’s Visionary Congress will take place in Petaluma, California.
00:56:17 ►
And I know that many of our fellow slaughters are going to be there.
00:56:20 ►
And, well, maybe you’re listening to this podcast on your way there right now.
00:56:25 ►
there and well maybe you’re listening to this podcast on your way there right now in which case I wish you a safe journey both to and from the Women’s Congress and on all of your psychedelic
00:56:31 ►
trips as well and for now this is Lorenzo signing off from Cyberdelic Space be careful out there my
00:56:38 ►
friends Thank you.