Program Notes
Guest speaker: Terence McKenna
Today’s talk by Terence McKenna takes us on an in-depth description of what he experiences on a DMT trip. While it is a story that we have heard before in various guises, Terence once again manages to tell his DMT stories in a way that makes it seem like you are hearing it for the first time, and with new detail if that can be imagined. Who else, for example, would describe a DMT trip as feeling like you are a baby in a maternity ward’s playpen. And this was new for me, at one point Terence says that when it comes to DMT, “I like to do it outside on a sunny hillside.” His description of a new delivery method that he was developing for smoked DMT sounds almost medieval. Followers of Terence will find his answer about his health quite revealing. And in regards to machine elves, et al, he says it’s all a lie, but a lie which points toward a truth that cannot be told. If you only intend to listen to Terence McKenna talk about DMT one time, then this is the talk for you.
Live Streaming of the Psymposia Conference
Previous Episode
443 - The Legendary Venice Salon
Next Episode
445 - Navigating the Ayahuasca Experience
Similar Episodes
- 538 - Are Psychedelics Spiritual_ - score: 0.88564
- 484 - This is the Mushroom’s Program - score: 0.88126
- 571 - Terence +2 - score: 0.88021
- 418 - Death By Astonishment - score: 0.87701
- 562 - What It’s Like To Be Loaded - score: 0.87675
- 216 - McKenna Under the Teaching Tree Part 2 - score: 0.86186
- 446 - Closing In On Concrescence - score: 0.85941
- 566 - A Tribe of Selves - score: 0.85938
- Podcast 700 – Plants That Talk - score: 0.85842
- 430 - The Danger is Madness - score: 0.85632
Transcript
00:00:00 ►
Greetings from cyberdelic space.
00:00:19 ►
This is Lorenzo and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.
00:00:26 ►
Lorenzo and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon. And for our fellow salonners who have been keeping up with the status of our fun drive that took place during the month of March,
00:00:30 ►
I’m pleased to let you know that, well, we’ve got another full year of podcasting coming your way.
00:00:36 ►
Collectively, 209 fellow salonners have donated enough to keep us going.
00:00:41 ►
Now, if you’ve been watching the little fun drive thermometer on our program
00:00:45 ►
notes blog, you’ve noticed that we didn’t quite make it all the way through next March, but
00:00:50 ►
we are safely paid up through the end of January, and well, I have a plan to make up the difference.
00:00:57 ►
Actually, the little shortfall is probably a blessing in disguise, because, well, it’s caused
00:01:03 ►
me to quit procrastinating
00:01:05 ►
and begin work on restructuring the back end of our delivery system.
00:01:09 ►
You see, when I began these podcasts 10 years ago, I had no idea that they’d still be going today.
00:01:16 ►
And as a result, the code that supports the salon, well, it’s a huge kludge, spaghetti code.
00:01:23 ►
And us geeks know that eventually that can become a problem.
00:01:26 ►
Now, the main thing that’s changed over these 10 years is that 8 years ago the iPhone was introduced,
00:01:32 ►
and that eventually resulted in the situation we have today, where more people stream these podcasts than download them.
00:01:39 ►
At first I didn’t pay any attention to this phenomena because, well, my service provider gives me unlimited bandwidth, as do almost all of them these days.
00:01:47 ►
But what’s in the fine print of these contracts is CPU time, and that’s directly affected by the number of concurrent connections to the server.
00:01:56 ►
Eventually, our number of simultaneous connections grew so large that we were forced into shifting to a dedicated server to handle the load.
00:02:04 ►
large that we were forced into shifting to a dedicated server to handle the load.
00:02:08 ►
And as some of our fellow slaughters know, our server still crashes a couple of times a month when the load peaks above what
00:02:12 ►
it can handle. And by the time I notice this and reboot the server,
00:02:16 ►
well, I suppose a lot of people have been inconvenienced. Well, it’s time
00:02:20 ►
to fix that, and so I’m now exploring cloud services, which, well,
00:02:24 ►
they seem to be a good solution for the ebb and flow of our traffic. So by this time next year, I hope to not only have a
00:02:30 ►
more efficient delivery system for you, at the same time, our expenses should come down to where we
00:02:36 ►
don’t need to raise so much money each year. Hopefully you won’t notice the change, and
00:02:40 ►
everything will continue on for you as it has been for these past 10 years. And if you have some personal experience with cloud providers, I’d love to hear from you
00:02:48 ►
as I’m more or less teaching myself about cloud tech as I go along.
00:02:53 ►
Fortunately, we’ve got a lot of time to work things out.
00:02:56 ►
And if you have some information about clouds you want to pass to me, you can reach me via
00:03:00 ►
Lorenzo at MatrixMasters.com or better yet, to avoid all the spam filters,
00:03:06 ►
just add a comment to the program notes for this podcast,
00:03:09 ►
which you can get to via psychedelicsalon.us.
00:03:13 ►
And to all of our donors,
00:03:15 ►
I want to give you a great big thank you from the bottom of my heart.
00:03:18 ►
Thanks to each and every one of you,
00:03:20 ►
the Psychedelic Salon will live for yet another year.
00:03:23 ►
And by the way, I’ve only
00:03:25 ►
heard from two of our Bitcoin donors via email. So if you are one of the nine Bitcoin donors that
00:03:31 ►
I haven’t heard from yet, well, if you send me your address, I’ll send you a personal thank you.
00:03:36 ►
Now, let’s get back to the June 1994 Terrence McKenna workshop that we’ve been listening to
00:03:42 ►
these past few weeks. If you think back to my
00:03:45 ►
previous podcast, you’ll remember that both Kathleen Wirt and myself commented about the
00:03:50 ►
somewhat high degree of risk associated with speaking about psychedelics in the previous
00:03:55 ►
decades. And as you listen to Terrence McKenna with me right now, try to keep in mind the fact
00:04:00 ►
that this talk was given in June of 1994. And believe me, many of the people who were in attendance at this workshop were actually taking a risk in attending
00:04:09 ►
and having their names associated with that of McKenna.
00:04:13 ►
At the time, there couldn’t have been more than five or six people in the world who were standing up in public
00:04:19 ►
and talking about what it’s like to have a few tokes of NNDMT.
00:04:23 ►
And please note that Terrence here is speaking about NNDMT, not 5-MEO-DMT.
00:04:29 ►
There’s a big difference, as you probably know already.
00:04:32 ►
But getting back to Terrence in the 1990s,
00:04:35 ►
believe me, I was searching for somebody like him
00:04:38 ►
when I was living out there on the east coast of the United States.
00:04:41 ►
But while I know that there must have been others doing the same thing,
00:04:45 ►
Terrence was the only one whose name made it all the way to the swamps of Florida back then.
00:04:50 ►
And what prompted me to bring that to your attention was the comment that you’ll hear
00:04:55 ►
again in about 30 minutes. I think I said this in reference to something else. I am self-initiated.
00:05:02 ►
I am self-initiated no lineage controls me
00:05:06 ►
nobody ever came knocking on my door
00:05:10 ►
and said you know
00:05:11 ►
you shouldn’t talk about this stuff
00:05:14 ►
nobody has ever done that to me
00:05:17 ►
so I have the weird feeling
00:05:20 ►
and I don’t believe it
00:05:21 ►
but I have the feeling
00:05:23 ►
that it’s like I discovered it
00:05:25 ►
because nobody tells me
00:05:28 ►
nobody comes over and says
00:05:29 ►
hey you’re on our territory
00:05:31 ►
or don’t talk about that
00:05:33 ►
didn’t you know that we Mandaians
00:05:35 ►
have been doing this for 10,000 years
00:05:37 ►
and I’ve been talking about it
00:05:41 ►
since 1982 in public
00:05:44 ►
and it’s still a and it’s still a secret.
00:05:47 ►
It’s still a secret. It’s the secret that can’t be told.
00:05:54 ►
And with that, let’s now rewind this talk back to the beginning
00:05:58 ►
and join Terrence and a few friends on a June day in 1994.
00:06:03 ►
And just for fun, try to recall what you were doing that month.
00:06:09 ►
Psilocin and DMT are not the same thing, and they don’t actually degrade into the same thing.
00:06:15 ►
So they are sort of like parallel pathways in the brain. DMT is by far the most dramatic
00:06:26 ►
of all of these hallucinogens.
00:06:30 ►
And in some ways,
00:06:31 ►
if we only had DMT,
00:06:34 ►
we could do just fine, thank you.
00:06:36 ►
I mean, it’s clumsy in some situations,
00:06:39 ►
but it definitely takes you
00:06:43 ►
from A to Z
00:06:44 ►
with all the stops in between.
00:06:49 ►
It’s also interesting in that it is so, how can I put it, socially transportable
00:06:58 ►
in that it only lasts 10 minutes.
00:07:02 ►
Well, so our critics can surely invest ten minutes.
00:07:09 ►
I mean, it’s not addictive, so what argument can there be against it?
00:07:15 ►
If you’re going to take up the cudgels of drug oppression and lead a lifelong crusade
00:07:26 ►
lead a lifelong crusade against the evils of hallucinogenesis,
00:07:31 ►
surely you will not sully yourself too dramatically if you just invest ten miserable minutes
00:07:36 ►
to try and understand the phenomenon from the inside.
00:07:40 ►
And of course, if we get that 10 minutes we have them because this i don’t believe
00:07:50 ►
that this side of the yawning grave there is a more dramatic experience that you can go through
00:07:59 ►
i mean maybe surviving the crash of a 747 or something. But these are high-risk activities.
00:08:07 ►
Smoking DMT is not a high-risk activity.
00:08:10 ►
You can do the whole thing in 15 minutes, start to finish.
00:08:15 ►
And yet what happens is it is more dramatic than a flying saucer invasion.
00:08:23 ►
It takes you into a direct
00:08:26 ►
three-dimensional confrontation
00:08:28 ►
with an alien intelligence
00:08:32 ►
of some sort
00:08:34 ►
and it raises questions about
00:08:36 ►
the after-death state
00:08:42 ►
whether or not consciousness can exist without
00:08:46 ►
a body
00:08:46 ►
the nature of the alien
00:08:50 ►
the nature of
00:08:52 ►
our place in the cosmos
00:08:54 ►
it’s
00:08:57 ►
very
00:08:57 ►
very dramatic
00:08:59 ►
and I think it is
00:09:01 ►
you know we said
00:09:04 ►
yesterday the inner eye opens on the landscape of time.
00:09:08 ►
Well, when the inner eye is illuminated by the light of DMT,
00:09:13 ►
then essentially what you get is a fast forward of the rest of universal history
00:09:21 ►
squeezed down into about a minute and a half.
00:09:25 ►
Because even though the DMT trip takes seven minutes
00:09:30 ►
and takes five minutes to get over,
00:09:33 ►
the really important part has a duration on the order of 100 seconds or something.
00:09:43 ►
And the longest 100 seconds you will ever know
00:09:48 ►
because that’s how you get people to do it it’s how I was gotten to do it I only
00:09:54 ►
asked one question when they brought me DMT I said how long does it last and he
00:09:59 ►
said three to five minutes bring it on on, Sam. And, you know, never having recovered then from that
00:10:10 ►
decision.
00:10:12 ►
So you said they’re both aliens?
00:10:16 ►
No, I don’t know what they are. I mean, the thing that you see in DMT, I mean, what I’ve called the self-transforming elf machines, right, are,
00:10:31 ►
well, when you smoke DMT and you get a good hit, I mean, the leather-lunged hash aficionados among us
00:10:45 ►
really have a leg up in this department
00:10:47 ►
because they can simply take it and hold it
00:10:50 ►
because it is very harsh and peculiar
00:10:53 ►
and somewhat synthetic tasting.
00:10:56 ►
It’s a little like smoking a mothball.
00:11:00 ►
Sounds like fun, right?
00:11:04 ►
But what happens to me is
00:11:07 ►
I am propelled through a series
00:11:09 ►
of tunnels
00:11:11 ►
fluxing tubes
00:11:14 ►
like things that are
00:11:15 ►
very brightly colored
00:11:17 ►
and there’s a kind of a sense of tumbling
00:11:19 ►
that is an initial
00:11:21 ►
discontinuity
00:11:22 ►
once I get beyond this swirling mandolic form
00:11:28 ►
that seems very typical that people call the chrysanthemum,
00:11:32 ►
you sort of have to break through that.
00:11:34 ►
It’s definitely a threshold drug.
00:11:37 ►
You have to get over a certain threshold.
00:11:40 ►
But if you do, hang on, Hannah.
00:11:43 ►
And it comes on in about 15 to 30 seconds. And you’re propelled down this fluctuating colored tube. And your body feels strange, anesthetized, something. It’s very hard to put your finger on it and then I burst into a space where there is immediately a roar
00:12:08 ►
of welcome and I’m in this domed
00:12:15 ►
indirectly lit comfortable place with ceilings not much higher than this and the walls pushed a little bit further out
00:12:26 ►
and somehow there’s an
00:12:28 ►
intuition that is
00:12:29 ►
unmistakable that this
00:12:32 ►
is underground
00:12:32 ►
that we’re far underground
00:12:35 ►
why? I don’t know
00:12:37 ►
but you know that you’re underground
00:12:39 ►
and then the main thing
00:12:42 ►
that’s happening though is the entities
00:12:44 ►
the elf machines
00:12:47 ►
these jewel self-dribbling basketballs
00:12:51 ►
made out of light
00:12:52 ►
they look like foraminifera
00:12:56 ►
cast in opal or something
00:12:59 ►
that are completely moving and transforming
00:13:02 ►
and they come right up to you, right up to you. And then they jump into your chest and jump out again. And there is this crazy emotion running around. It’s like, I don’t know, did you ever see the film Hell’s a Poppin’? It was a 30s deal.
00:13:29 ►
Or the Marx Brothers cartoon, Marx Brothers routine, or a Max Sennett comedy. It’s sort of
00:13:36 ►
like a Bugs Bunny cartoon run backwards at high supersonic speed. There’s all this jumping around and playing. They’re playing. They’re like kittens
00:13:47 ►
or yes, sort of like kittens. And they’re saying, we love you. We love you, buddy boy.
00:13:55 ►
And we’re so glad to see you. And it’s horrifying. It’s horrifying because, you know,
00:14:07 ►
horrifying. It’s horrifying because, you know, less than a minute before you were with your scruffy friends in some room somewhere with the call due from your lawyer in 45 minutes and all
00:14:17 ►
this stuff. And then you did this drug and, and it came on so fast that it’s not like doing a drug. It’s more like, did the apartment house blow up?
00:14:27 ►
Has there been an earthquake?
00:14:29 ►
Are we dead?
00:14:30 ►
What has happened?
00:14:32 ►
And these things are saying, forget that.
00:14:36 ►
Don’t worry.
00:14:38 ►
Number one message, don’t worry.
00:14:41 ►
Number two message, somewhat surprising, do not give way to amazement.
00:14:47 ►
That’s what they say.
00:14:48 ►
They say, do not abandon yourself to wonder.
00:14:52 ►
Just pay attention.
00:14:54 ►
Because I’m like this.
00:14:57 ►
You know, and you breathe.
00:15:02 ►
And look around, and it doesn’t go away.
00:15:04 ►
It’s stable, you know. And you think, oh God. and look around, and it doesn’t go away.
00:15:06 ►
It’s stable, you know?
00:15:08 ►
And you think, oh, God.
00:15:14 ►
You take your pulse.
00:15:15 ►
Your pulse is all right. And you’re just like, Jesus criminy.
00:15:19 ►
I’ve done it this time.
00:15:21 ►
And meanwhile, these things are doing what they do and what they do is they make
00:15:30 ►
objects out of language they possess a language that you can see and they make things with it
00:15:40 ►
they’re singing they’re punning they’re punning is what they’re doing.
00:15:45 ►
They’re able to make things which are both words and
00:15:48 ►
objects simultaneously. And they’re
00:15:51 ►
producing these unbelievable puns
00:15:54 ►
and they’re showing them to you. And one of them
00:15:57 ►
will come scampering up, although they have no legs
00:16:01 ►
and they’re not, you know, but scamper is the vibe.
00:16:04 ►
They come scampering up and they say, look at this, look at this.
00:16:08 ►
And here’s another one.
00:16:09 ►
No, no, me, me.
00:16:11 ►
They’re elbowing each other out of the way.
00:16:12 ►
Look at this, look at this.
00:16:14 ►
And you, as you direct your attention into these things that they’re offering you,
00:16:20 ►
then you realize why they said, do not abandon yourself to wonder
00:16:25 ►
do not give way to astonishment
00:16:28 ►
because what they’re showing you is impossible
00:16:31 ►
it’s impossible
00:16:33 ►
and as you look you say matter can’t do that
00:16:38 ►
light can’t do that
00:16:39 ►
because these things are morphing, transforming
00:16:43 ►
these cross between Fabergé eggs and radiolaria
00:16:48 ►
and opalescent foraminifera
00:16:51 ►
and these complex mathematical geometric things
00:16:56 ►
saying, look at this, look at this.
00:16:58 ►
And then when they release these things,
00:17:01 ►
the things themselves are generating language,
00:17:07 ►
squealing and chirping and punning and humming and generating other objects. And this stuff is just accumulating. And they
00:17:14 ►
are very intent. And they say, do what we are doing. Do what we are doing pay attention and do it
00:17:25 ►
and at first
00:17:27 ►
and by at first
00:17:28 ►
I mean the first five years
00:17:30 ►
of smoking DMT
00:17:32 ►
every once in a while
00:17:34 ►
because it’s not something you do very often
00:17:36 ►
I couldn’t
00:17:37 ►
it was all going so fast
00:17:40 ►
I was just like in shock
00:17:42 ►
I was in fact too amazed to participate. And then high
00:17:48 ►
dose mushroom trips and practicing the glossolalia and this and that, I got to the place where
00:17:54 ►
when I go in there and all this is happening, I feel in the bottom of my stomach, in the solar plexus, like a lump or a light or something,
00:18:09 ►
and it begins to move up.
00:18:12 ►
And when it reaches my mouth, my mouth just snaps open,
00:18:16 ►
and I can do what they want me to do.
00:18:21 ►
And I can then join in the play
00:18:23 ►
and can make these objects. This is the glossolalia
00:18:29 ►
part of it. Glossolalia is not what it appears to the observer. It’s some kind of activity
00:18:36 ►
where you masturbate the visual cortex or something like that. And as long as you do it,
00:18:45 ►
and as long as the drug stays at high concentration in the synapse,
00:18:50 ►
you’re just ecstatic.
00:18:53 ►
And they’re ecstatic.
00:18:55 ►
They’re jumping up and down.
00:18:56 ►
Yes, yes, he’s got it by gad, that’s it.
00:19:01 ►
Pouring in all this encouragement and love and affection.
00:19:05 ►
And you’re now, you know, a minute, two and a half minutes deep into this thing.
00:19:14 ►
And at that point, it just sort of like a shudder goes through it,
00:19:19 ►
and it kind of pulls apart and falls down and moves back and melts and drifts away and evaporates and any
00:19:29 ►
number of other words used to describe dissipation and then you open your eyes and your friends are
00:19:39 ►
there granted they appear to be beryllium mantises of some sort, but nevertheless easily
00:19:48 ►
recognized as friends and neighbors, and though you are more loaded at that moment than you have
00:19:55 ►
ever been in your life, you feel perfectly confident to proclaim, I’m down. Because you are down.
00:20:06 ►
Because compared to where you were
00:20:08 ►
20 seconds earlier,
00:20:10 ►
the fact that your friends look like
00:20:12 ►
polished mantids and all
00:20:14 ►
the rest of it is utterly
00:20:15 ►
mundane and trivial and gives
00:20:18 ►
you no problem at all. You just say,
00:20:20 ►
thank God I’m back
00:20:21 ►
in the real world. And then
00:20:24 ►
over the course of the next three minutes, it just goes away.
00:20:28 ►
Do your friends confer that they have the same experience?
00:20:33 ►
A lot of people have the experience.
00:20:35 ►
It is put through many filters, and people always ask this.
00:20:40 ►
And I think two things are critical here.
00:20:43 ►
Dose.
00:20:44 ►
And I’m a lifelong hash smoker,
00:20:48 ►
and I can take an enormous hit of hash and hold it.
00:20:52 ►
There isn’t a cilia left in my entire lung system.
00:20:58 ►
That’s important.
00:20:59 ►
And then the other thing is, I think it’s this veil thing.
00:21:03 ►
How much can you stand?
00:21:06 ►
Because people come back and they say things which are like along the spectrum to what I’m describing, but not quite there.
00:21:15 ►
Like people often say, there were elves, there were little people.
00:21:21 ►
Not self-dribbling jeweled basketballs, but simply little people.
00:21:25 ►
I’ve even had people say they had leather
00:21:28 ►
jerkins and little turned up curls on
00:21:31 ►
their footwear and stuff like that.
00:21:35 ►
Other people say, to me the archetype of
00:21:40 ►
DMT is the archetype of the circus.
00:21:44 ►
And when you take it, you’ll know what I mean.
00:21:47 ►
Because the circus is a very complex emotional construct. A circus is a great place to take
00:21:56 ►
children. They love circuses because of the clowns and the animals and the colored costumes and the moving light but
00:22:05 ►
the circus is many things
00:22:08 ►
I mean above all that
00:22:10 ►
and in the
00:22:12 ►
center ring up near the top
00:22:14 ►
of the tent is the lady in the
00:22:15 ►
tiny spangled costume
00:22:17 ►
who is hanging by her teeth
00:22:20 ►
and working without nets
00:22:21 ►
death and eros
00:22:23 ►
and I think you know it may reflect on my psychology,
00:22:27 ►
but I am positive that my first exposure to death and eros
00:22:33 ►
was such a woman.
00:22:35 ►
Because I can remember being so small
00:22:38 ►
that I was wrapped up in something
00:22:42 ►
and handed from hand to hand.
00:22:44 ►
And yet when I saw the lady
00:22:47 ►
in the spangled costume
00:22:49 ►
risking her life
00:22:52 ►
I simultaneously understood
00:22:54 ►
that she was risking her life
00:22:55 ►
and that she was some kind of great babe
00:22:59 ►
and you know I was under three
00:23:02 ►
at the time
00:23:03 ►
so Eros and death in the midst of hilarity and humor,
00:23:10 ►
which is a weird juxtaposition.
00:23:13 ►
And then the sideshows, the boy in the bottle,
00:23:20 ►
the Siamese twins, the goat-headed lady, you know,
00:23:35 ►
The Siamese twins, the goat-headed lady, you know, the bearded woman, all of this weird, kinky, strange, deviant stuff is just off the main exhibit.
00:23:41 ►
And the circus, what the circus represents is rupture of plane.
00:23:49 ►
It represents the alien. A circus coming to a small Midwestern town is an alien invasion. Children are told they can’t play out late at night. The carny people are in
00:23:56 ►
town. Farmers come from miles around. It’s a celebration, but it also is an experience of a social edge.
00:24:06 ►
The carny people, they drink, they may swap wives, who knows?
00:24:12 ►
They’re not like us over here at the Lutheran Church.
00:24:16 ►
And eventually, after a few days, they make their money, they spin their bottles,
00:24:21 ►
they play their game, and then they pack up and they leave
00:24:25 ►
and every child
00:24:27 ►
worth his or her salt
00:24:29 ►
wants to run away
00:24:31 ►
with the circus
00:24:32 ►
of course because the circus will take you
00:24:35 ►
to another world
00:24:37 ►
a world completely different from the
00:24:39 ►
humdrum Kansas
00:24:40 ►
that you’re living in somewhere
00:24:43 ►
if any of you are film fans, Federico Fellini had a wonderful affection for the circus and clearly saw it in this way. Not only the circus of Amarcord, but the circus of Roma, Satyricon, Casanova, I mean, over and over again, Fellini, he was doing this.
00:25:10 ►
He was an impresario.
00:25:12 ►
He was a master of magic and effect. right next door, literally one toke away, that when you lift the veil,
00:25:26 ►
then the screaming elf hordes come bounding in.
00:25:30 ►
And when I did it,
00:25:32 ►
I was a fan of Sartre and Camus and Jean Genet
00:25:40 ►
and situationalism,
00:25:44 ►
all this weird kind of European 20th century
00:25:49 ►
spun down, tired out stuff.
00:25:52 ►
I was not a believer in elves, let me put it that way.
00:25:57 ►
And it just instantly settled a whole bunch of questions
00:26:01 ►
that I had been looking for answers for in the psychedelics.
00:26:04 ►
But in the
00:26:05 ►
other psychedelics, it was like always running through my fingers. You know, it is the imagination,
00:26:12 ►
it’s mind, it’s me. With DMT, the conviction is unescapable that, my God, this is real.
00:26:21 ►
It’s more real than this world. This world is like a shimmering hallucination
00:26:27 ►
compared to the DMT world.
00:26:31 ►
And as to what it means, I’m not sure.
00:26:35 ►
I mean, I took pure DMT with me to the Amazon
00:26:38 ►
on one of the trips
00:26:40 ►
and got out with the Iowa Scaros
00:26:43 ►
and turned a couple of these guys on to this.
00:26:48 ►
And they were, number one, appalled,
00:26:52 ►
and number two, said,
00:26:54 ►
it’s ancestors.
00:26:56 ►
It’s ancestor spirits.
00:26:58 ►
I mean, didn’t we tell you
00:26:59 ►
that we do it all with the ancestors?
00:27:02 ►
Well, that is, strangely enough,
00:27:05 ►
the conservative analysis.
00:27:08 ►
Because look at what you’ve got.
00:27:10 ►
You’ve got some kind of intelligent entity,
00:27:13 ►
not made of matter, made of light,
00:27:16 ►
able to communicate with English-speaking human beings,
00:27:20 ►
sort of, meaning with this visual language.
00:27:23 ►
Well, so it’s either, if we put aside the figment of your imagination theory,
00:27:30 ►
which seems a little pallid at this point,
00:27:33 ►
then it’s either an extraterrestrial, a true extraterrestrial,
00:27:39 ►
and that’s possible.
00:27:41 ►
I mean, think about it for a moment.
00:27:42 ►
If you were an extraterrestrial of great sophistication and skill and technological power, and you wanted to contact and interact with human beings without alarming them or setting off a historical crisis on their planet, how would you do it?
00:28:07 ►
would you do it? I think you would hide yourself inside an intoxication. Because as we know,
00:28:12 ►
if you meet somebody and they tell you they were drinking heavily last night and they saw pink elephants, only a mad person calls the zoo to find out if any elephants have
00:28:20 ►
escaped. That’s ridiculous. No, we don’t take seriously reports of pink elephants because they
00:28:26 ►
are associated with intoxication. Well, if you wanted to disguise and hide yourself in the
00:28:34 ►
detritus of this world in a place humans would never ever take you seriously, then just slip in
00:28:41 ►
between the pink elephant and the something else in an intoxication.
00:28:46 ►
So that’s one possibility.
00:28:49 ►
True extraterrestrials with some kind of mentalist technology
00:28:54 ►
where what we think of as a drug is for them a communications network of some sort.
00:29:01 ►
Or it could be a parallel continuum of some sort, not exactly made of matter.
00:29:09 ►
But how weird that the way you get from this world to that world is by using a drug. But
00:29:15 ►
maybe that’s not so weird. Maybe the idea that you would climb in an H.G. Wells style machine and push a button is just absurdly 19th century and naive.
00:29:30 ►
But the more conservative position,
00:29:34 ►
since we’ve never discovered extraterrestrials
00:29:37 ►
or dwellers in parallel continuums,
00:29:40 ►
and since these things,
00:29:41 ►
they are alien and yet not alien.
00:29:44 ►
They are alien and yet not alien. They are alien and yet the alienness is pervaded with a real sense of familiarity.
00:29:53 ►
So I think that what they are is souls.
00:29:58 ►
And this is what the shamans in the Amazon said they were.
00:30:01 ►
They’re souls.
00:30:03 ►
And that what we’re seeing is an ecology
00:30:06 ►
of souls.
00:30:08 ►
And it took me the first 16 years of my life
00:30:12 ►
to fight my way free of the Roman Catholic
00:30:15 ►
Church. And I’m appalled
00:30:18 ►
that life’s intellectual adventure has
00:30:21 ►
brought me back to the point where we have to talk about
00:30:23 ►
souls. But hey, once you’ve
00:30:27 ►
been there, once you’ve been swarmed by a mess of them it’s like dying, sort of. And I, at one point, had an opportunity to turn on a Tibetan monk to these things, a Tibetan lama, not a Budweiser lama, not one of those people,
00:31:05 ►
a real llama.
00:31:08 ►
And he since died.
00:31:12 ►
He was ancient then.
00:31:13 ►
In fact, I was afraid it might kill him,
00:31:15 ►
but he said it didn’t matter.
00:31:19 ►
But he said,
00:31:20 ►
after it was all over,
00:31:22 ►
he said those are the lesser lights. He said, you cannot
00:31:26 ►
go deeper into the bardo and return. He said, if you go deeper into the bardo than this,
00:31:33 ►
you will sever your connection to the body. And so, essentially what he was saying was
00:31:39 ►
it’s a near-death experience. But it’s a lot weirder than the near death experiences being popularized on
00:31:46 ►
daytime TV and in the New Age press, which are all about welcoming relatives, holding out their arms
00:31:55 ►
and beckoning. This is not welcoming relatives we’re talking about here. I think they are souls,
00:32:03 ►
but I don’t think it’s Aunt Minnie and Uncle Ned
00:32:06 ►
I don’t think it works quite like that
00:32:09 ►
one of the very weird
00:32:10 ►
things about the DMT
00:32:13 ►
place that I go
00:32:15 ►
and I’ve done it many
00:32:16 ►
many times in order to
00:32:18 ►
build up an image
00:32:20 ►
of what it is
00:32:22 ►
and the image that comes to me
00:32:24 ►
is that
00:32:26 ►
I’ve already mentioned this thing about how
00:32:30 ►
it always reveals itself through veils
00:32:32 ►
it never shows you what the real action is
00:32:35 ►
the vibe of this place
00:32:38 ►
that I go on DMT
00:32:40 ►
is it’s a playpen
00:32:44 ►
is what it is.
00:32:46 ►
And these self-transforming elf machines
00:32:49 ►
that we’re going into such an ontological swivet about
00:32:53 ►
are nothing more than toys, is what they are.
00:32:58 ►
They are designed to amaze and amuse me.
00:33:02 ►
Someone with a very deep insight into human psychology
00:33:06 ►
created these things,
00:33:08 ►
and they’re nothing more than the equivalent
00:33:10 ►
of taking plastic shapes strung on a string
00:33:14 ►
and hanging them over a bassinet
00:33:16 ►
so that an infant can begin to bat at them
00:33:20 ►
and coordinate eye, hand, distance,
00:33:26 ►
this sort of thing. The feeling is not only of a playpen, but of a maternity ward.
00:33:33 ►
That you’re being born.
00:33:36 ►
And you’re being born, and there’s a lot of, you know,
00:33:42 ►
what ayahuasqueros call little doctors,
00:33:46 ►
is what they call the things they see in Iowa there are a lot of little doctors in this weird underground
00:33:52 ►
space and they’re waiting for you and because you only stay two minutes it
00:34:00 ►
doesn’t get too out of hand because what can happen in two minutes
00:34:05 ►
you see, you look around
00:34:08 ►
they show you some toys
00:34:09 ►
they tell you you’re a fine fellow
00:34:12 ►
they tell you not to worry
00:34:13 ►
and the interview is over
00:34:15 ►
but what if there was no going back
00:34:20 ►
well then you’re just there
00:34:23 ►
you’re a little swaddling
00:34:25 ►
and you’re there
00:34:27 ►
and presumably beyond the confines of that room
00:34:31 ►
is a world as different from that room
00:34:35 ►
as this world is different from the
00:34:37 ►
general maternity ward at Kaiser Hospital
00:34:40 ►
and then you go with them
00:34:44 ►
into that place that’s what it feels like. And I don’t
00:34:50 ►
know what it means. What does it mean, Mr. Natural? I don’t know what it means. It don’t
00:34:58 ►
mean shit. That was Mr. Natural’s answer to the question, you recall. It seems as though it should be a secret.
00:35:10 ►
And in a sense it is a secret in that, you know,
00:35:14 ►
it isn’t the world’s largest religion is not DMT smoking.
00:35:20 ►
I think I said this in reference to something else.
00:35:24 ►
I am self-initiated.
00:35:28 ►
No lineage controls me.
00:35:32 ►
Nobody ever came knocking on my door and said,
00:35:35 ►
you know, you shouldn’t talk about this stuff.
00:35:40 ►
Nobody has ever done that to me.
00:35:42 ►
So I have the weird feeling, and I don’t believe it,
00:35:46 ►
but I have the feeling that it’s like I discovered it.
00:35:51 ►
Because nobody tells me, nobody comes over and says,
00:35:54 ►
hey, you’re on our territory, or don’t talk about that.
00:35:57 ►
Didn’t you know that we Mandaeans have been doing this for 10,000 years?
00:36:03 ►
And I’ve been talking about it
00:36:05 ►
since 1982 in public.
00:36:09 ►
And it’s still a secret.
00:36:12 ►
It’s still a secret.
00:36:14 ►
It’s the secret that can’t be told.
00:36:17 ►
And I’m fascinated by you people
00:36:19 ►
because it is your fate
00:36:24 ►
and I have no idea why, to come at least this far.
00:36:31 ►
I mean, maybe some of you have smoked DMT, but probably most of you haven’t.
00:36:37 ►
So it’s your fate to come this far this morning to hear this and you can forget it you can disbelieve it you can think that I am
00:36:53 ►
a screwball and disempower it that way but as far as I can tell and I have searched the attic of Western and Eastern civilization, been
00:37:06 ►
to a lot of weird places, as far as I can tell, this is it. This is the thing which
00:37:14 ►
we are raised to believe is impossible. They tell you there’s no doorway out except the grave. And then they tell you,
00:37:26 ►
it’s no doorway out.
00:37:32 ►
But even if the grave is not a doorway out, even if the grave means dissolution
00:37:35 ►
into non-entity for all eternity,
00:37:39 ►
DMT is the way out.
00:37:42 ►
And it exists.
00:37:44 ►
It’s common.
00:37:45 ►
It exists in many plants.
00:37:47 ►
If as a society we valued it,
00:37:50 ►
we could produce trainloads of the stuff.
00:37:53 ►
It’s just a trivial, ordinary chemical of some sort.
00:37:58 ►
But what it does to the human mind
00:38:00 ►
is this civilization can’t stand it.
00:38:04 ►
This civilization is based on a number of unquestioned premises
00:38:09 ►
which in the light of DMT are seen to be not only false, preposterous.
00:38:17 ►
And I don’t know where we go from here.
00:38:19 ►
I don’t know if societies can be built on DMT.
00:38:23 ►
Maybe only individual lives can be built on DMT. Maybe only individual lives can be built on DMT.
00:38:28 ►
Yeah.
00:38:29 ►
Well, actually, this is a funny thing.
00:38:32 ►
Why isn’t more of it made?
00:38:35 ►
There’s a lot of LSD around.
00:38:38 ►
LSD is hard as hell to make.
00:38:41 ►
You have to be good.
00:38:43 ►
You have to be very good.
00:38:49 ►
DMT is a second year organic chem,
00:38:58 ►
final exam kind of deal. It’s at that level of difficulty. And yet, wherever it is, it’s precious.
00:39:07 ►
It’s never met with in large amounts. And it doesn’t seem to behave like an ordinary substance.
00:39:14 ►
You would think something with this amount of hype behind it would make somebody rich.
00:39:19 ►
Somebody would say, well, by God, I’m going to make 500 kilos of that and spread it from Singapore to wherever and make a killing. It’s never like that. If you find
00:39:28 ►
somebody who has some, they have a tiny amount. And, I should make the final point, I suppose,
00:39:37 ►
this is not something completely alien. The chemical I’m now talking about the experience is plenty alien
00:39:46 ►
the chemical occurs in your own body
00:39:49 ►
it occurs in the human body
00:39:52 ►
in the human brain
00:39:53 ►
no one knows what it’s doing there
00:39:57 ►
but I think that dream
00:40:01 ►
because the DMT actually not only occurs in the human brain
00:40:07 ►
but it occurs in higher and higher concentrations
00:40:10 ►
as you ascend the primate phylogeny
00:40:13 ►
the phylate primogeny
00:40:16 ►
and I think dreaming
00:40:21 ►
that the chemistry of dreaming
00:40:23 ►
must be run on DMT, and for several reasons.
00:40:27 ►
The first one is, there is only one thing on earth that ends like a DMT trip, and that’s
00:40:35 ►
an interrupted dream. You know how you can be dreaming, and you’re in Paris, and you’ve
00:40:41 ►
finally gotten the car, and you’ve met the friend, and now you’re headed for the, and you’ve finally gotten the car, and you’ve met the friend,
00:40:45 ►
and now you’re headed for the…
00:40:47 ►
And it’s this kind of crazy stuff.
00:40:50 ►
And then the alarm clock rings,
00:40:53 ►
and literally before your feet hit the floor,
00:40:57 ►
it’s gone.
00:40:59 ►
You can almost feel it.
00:41:01 ►
It melts. It melts.
00:41:04 ►
Dreams melt in the same way that DMT melts away.
00:41:09 ►
And, very suggestive, the physiological concomitant to dreaming is what’s called rapid eye movement.
00:41:17 ►
This has been known since the 50s. Well, the highest concentration of DMT in human cerebrospinal fluid occurs between 3 and 4.30 a.m.
00:41:35 ►
This is when the deep dreaming is going on as correlated to REM movement of the eyes.
00:41:46 ►
Well, when you dose somebody on DMT,
00:41:51 ►
and it’s smoked, I guess I said that,
00:41:53 ►
when you dose somebody on DMT,
00:41:56 ►
they flop down and lie still,
00:41:59 ►
if they’re a good subject.
00:42:01 ►
Otherwise, they twitch and scream and try to run around.
00:42:04 ►
But you don’t put up with that.
00:42:06 ►
You just sit on them.
00:42:07 ►
But somebody who knows how to take their medicine
00:42:11 ►
will just shut up and lie down.
00:42:14 ►
Well, then you look very carefully at them.
00:42:16 ►
Their eyes are closed.
00:42:18 ►
And you can see about 30 seconds into the experience,
00:42:23 ►
their eyes begin to dart wildly
00:42:26 ►
under their closed eyelids.
00:42:28 ►
They are in REM sleep,
00:42:30 ►
and I’m sure that if you could put electrodes on people,
00:42:33 ►
you would see that the DMT triggers a plunge into REM,
00:42:38 ►
and that’s where this takes place.
00:42:41 ►
Second piece of data which relates to this
00:42:44 ►
and is very, very interesting
00:42:47 ►
to me, and I wish I had more resources, more money, more connections, believe it or not,
00:42:57 ►
is this, that once you have smoked DMT and had the experience that I’m talking about,
00:43:06 ►
later, years later, you can have a dream
00:43:11 ►
where you’re with people somewhere and something’s going on
00:43:16 ►
and then lo and behold, somebody produces a small glass pipe in this dream,
00:43:23 ►
hands it to you, flashes a butane lighter, and it happens.
00:43:29 ►
It happens in the dream. And not a memory of it, not a pale reflection, but a 100% full-on
00:43:39 ►
70 milligram DMT trip in the dream. That means to me that we have the capacity for this all the time.
00:43:51 ►
And remember, this is the most powerful hallucinogen on this planet. And yet, apparently, our body
00:43:57 ►
chemistry is delicately enough balanced that this is not that far out of reach.
00:44:06 ►
And yet people never have DMT trips when awake.
00:44:11 ►
If it happened to one person in 50,000,
00:44:15 ►
it would be a phenomenon known to us since the birth of Greek medicine.
00:44:20 ►
But people don’t ever have that happen to them.
00:44:25 ►
So I think I talked to Rupert about this.
00:44:28 ►
His idea, which is possible certainly,
00:44:33 ►
he calls it a necrotogen.
00:44:40 ►
Yes, necrotogen.
00:44:42 ►
Meaning that it’s something which is released in the brain at death
00:44:48 ►
and never before under ordinary circumstances.
00:44:53 ►
And that for some reason, this is the chemical which lets you die.
00:44:58 ►
And it is true that at a certain point, the organism, as I understand it, sort of releases. It gives up and then
00:45:07 ►
death proceeds very quickly from that point. So perhaps this is what it is, but what is
00:45:14 ►
it for? That’s the question. I mean, why can’t we just die like dogs? Nobody wants to die.
00:45:20 ►
Why should there be this salutary release?
00:45:28 ►
You know, there is orgasm, or at least ejaculation,
00:45:30 ►
in some forms of death.
00:45:36 ►
That seems to imply that the body is in life in a state of tension and holding,
00:45:38 ►
and when death is really very close, if not inevitable,
00:45:44 ►
then the body goes through some kind of series
00:45:47 ►
of changes, and perhaps one of them is the release of DMT. I don’t say this proves an
00:45:57 ►
after-death world, because I know what proof means. And, you know, dying says nothing about death,
00:46:06 ►
and tripping says nothing about death.
00:46:09 ►
Or it can only give an indication.
00:46:12 ►
But it has caused me to think very, very seriously about shamanism,
00:46:17 ►
about their insistence that they work through ancestor magic,
00:46:22 ►
and about the question of death,
00:46:25 ►
just what is biology trying to do?
00:46:29 ►
And what is the nature of our form?
00:46:32 ►
You know, metabolism, we come into being
00:46:35 ►
with a morphogenetic program.
00:46:39 ►
And by eating first our mother’s milk
00:46:42 ►
and then pablum and then the stuff of the world
00:46:45 ►
we stabilize the form
00:46:48 ►
the flesh is replaced
00:46:51 ►
every few months or years but the form
00:46:54 ►
stays over a long period of time
00:46:57 ►
the form sort of withers and hunches
00:47:01 ►
and wrinkles but it’s recognizable
00:47:04 ►
70 years after birth the person is still recognizably
00:47:08 ►
the little girl or boy that they were at five years old in most cases.
00:47:13 ►
So then at death, the form fails and metabolism fails
00:47:21 ►
and you no longer are maintained far from equilibrium
00:47:25 ►
in what’s called the living state.
00:47:27 ►
Instead, you know, everything stops
00:47:31 ►
and the body becomes an object like a piece of furniture.
00:47:35 ►
It can be stacked like cordwood or dealt with in whatever way anybody wants to.
00:47:52 ►
way anybody wants to. But perhaps nature does not create this form in vain. And perhaps in the world of higher dimensions and what life is about is creating
00:48:09 ►
something called a vehicle an after-death vehicle a body of light a
00:48:15 ►
diamond body something which endures and that at death is released into some kind of super space
00:48:28 ►
where it has an entirely other kind of existence about which we can know and say nothing.
00:48:38 ►
When you look at our past, it seems to support this idea to some degree in that we all are here and
00:48:50 ►
yet we came out of the bodies of women and in a very mysterious process. I mean, it always
00:49:00 ►
seemed to me, people always said, you know, what sex is about is the union of egg and sperm, and that’s where people came from.
00:49:10 ►
Well, at age eight, I was not satisfied with that.
00:49:14 ►
I mean, they always wanted to talk about sex, but what I wanted to know was, but where do people really come from?
00:49:21 ►
I understand about how we get them downloaded into meat, but where are they?
00:49:28 ►
You know, where are they? I mean, where was I a thousand years ago? Where was I a million
00:49:33 ►
years ago? And you say, well, you didn’t exist. Well, then you came into existence 50% over
00:49:40 ►
here in your father’s sperm and 50% over here in your mother’s egg.
00:49:46 ►
Well, then did I exist?
00:49:48 ►
My mother had the egg which became me from the time she was born.
00:49:55 ►
And if my father was younger than my mother,
00:49:58 ►
so half of me apparently existed before the other half existed.
00:50:03 ►
You say, hmm, this sounds like messed up thinking of some sort.
00:50:08 ►
Isn’t it rather that a pattern
00:50:12 ►
is making a series of transits
00:50:16 ►
from one dimension to another?
00:50:19 ►
And, you know, dying is not like birth
00:50:22 ►
in the sense that in the womb you’re alone.
00:50:29 ►
Here we have our wonderful planet full of interesting people
00:50:34 ►
and we die away from our group.
00:50:37 ►
When you start down the birth canal,
00:50:41 ►
it’s not because you’re lonely,
00:50:43 ►
because the concept lonely could hardly arise in the
00:50:48 ►
womb, I think, because there is no other except the other of the complete surround, which
00:50:54 ►
you may or may not image as human. You may think of it as the world, not my, you know, an extension of myself.
00:51:10 ►
Because I’m not the smartest person in the world, for sure,
00:51:13 ►
but I’m also not the stupidest person in the world.
00:51:16 ►
And I’ve been more or less around the block, the major religions, the major schools of transformation,
00:51:22 ►
the major themes and variations on sexuality.
00:51:26 ►
I’m like a normal person.
00:51:29 ►
And I tell you,
00:51:31 ►
from where I’m standing,
00:51:32 ►
it looks to me like
00:51:33 ►
the biggest news there is.
00:51:36 ►
I do not understand
00:51:37 ►
why there aren’t
00:51:37 ►
four-inch headlines.
00:51:39 ►
Scientists announced
00:51:41 ►
discovery of hyperspace,
00:51:43 ►
nearby inhabited dimension confirmed by laboratories in England and Russia,
00:51:49 ►
or some crap like that.
00:51:51 ►
But it never happens.
00:51:53 ►
It seems to belong.
00:51:57 ►
It’s not part of our official culture.
00:52:00 ►
It’s not recognized. It’s not sanctioned.
00:52:02 ►
It’s not allowed.
00:52:03 ►
It’s not recognized, it’s not sanctioned, it’s not allowed.
00:52:10 ►
And, you know, I have somehow found a unique kind of niche,
00:52:14 ►
but most people who talk like this don’t get a chance to make a living. They’re put in back wards and heavily sedated
00:52:17 ►
and kept from contact with the rest of people because it’s madness.
00:52:24 ►
But it’s not dysfunction.
00:52:26 ►
It doesn’t,
00:52:26 ►
I know how to hold my fork,
00:52:28 ►
make a phone call,
00:52:29 ►
pay my bills.
00:52:31 ►
What kind of madness is it?
00:52:33 ►
It’s just a minority opinion.
00:52:35 ►
It’s not madness.
00:52:36 ►
But it’s a minority opinion
00:52:38 ►
because it’s a minority experience,
00:52:41 ►
for crying out loud.
00:52:42 ►
I mean, if everybody lived in Hawaii and you were an
00:52:45 ►
arctic explorer and you insisted
00:52:48 ►
that part of the planet was covered
00:52:49 ►
with ice five miles thick
00:52:51 ►
and the sun stayed up 24
00:52:53 ►
hours a day they would just
00:52:55 ►
put you away turns out it’s the
00:52:58 ►
fact of the matter so this
00:52:59 ►
is a polar region
00:53:01 ►
of human experience
00:53:04 ►
that very few people
00:53:05 ►
have mapped or been to
00:53:07 ►
and yet we don’t have a full picture
00:53:09 ►
I mean I would like to know
00:53:11 ►
what would Jean-Paul Sartre have said
00:53:13 ►
what would Nietzsche have said
00:53:15 ►
what would Wittgenstein
00:53:18 ►
have made of this
00:53:20 ►
I mean all these people
00:53:21 ►
based their lives and their
00:53:23 ►
professions on the datum of experience.
00:53:28 ►
Well, by God, here’s a datum of experience.
00:53:30 ►
Put this in your pipe and smoke it and we’ll talk datum of experience.
00:53:36 ►
Yeah.
00:53:36 ►
I was wondering, through the history of your taking DMT,
00:53:40 ►
do you sense a progression as a state as you’re maturing
00:53:45 ►
so you go further and further
00:53:46 ►
with each experience
00:53:47 ►
and how often can you take it?
00:53:50 ►
How often can you take it?
00:53:52 ►
You can take it
00:53:54 ►
every 24 hours.
00:53:57 ►
People have an interesting
00:54:00 ►
relationship to it.
00:54:02 ►
A lot of,
00:54:03 ►
like when you give it
00:54:04 ►
to someone who’s never had it they’ve usually
00:54:06 ►
been furiously hyped so they’re quaking in their boots and if you can get over all that and actually
00:54:13 ►
get them to do a huge amount often they come down literally begging for more. And I tend to resist giving them more
00:54:25 ►
because I’ve noticed that there seems to be a slight reflex,
00:54:30 ►
a slight tolerance.
00:54:32 ►
The second flash, if you go into it immediately,
00:54:37 ►
is not as strong as the first.
00:54:40 ►
But that person who came out of it
00:54:42 ►
clawing and begging for it,
00:54:50 ►
24 hours later, if you offer it to them, they may hesitate.
00:54:52 ►
They may even take a pass.
00:54:58 ►
Because as I’ve always said, it’s the implications of it.
00:55:02 ►
And you don’t get the implications together in the first five minutes.
00:55:05 ►
You say, you know, my God, what was that?
00:55:08 ►
Well, and then you sit down under a tree somewhere by yourself and try to answer the question, what was that?
00:55:12 ►
And it makes your hair stand on end.
00:55:14 ►
You know, was I dead?
00:55:17 ►
Was I in the presence of extraterrestrial minds?
00:55:22 ►
Did that really go on?
00:55:24 ►
Was it really real?
00:55:27 ►
And so there’s a kind of a reluctance to do it.
00:55:30 ►
It’s like jumping off a cliff into cold water.
00:55:34 ►
You really have to screw your courage
00:55:36 ►
to the sticking point.
00:55:38 ►
And I don’t know why that is
00:55:39 ►
because every time I do it,
00:55:42 ►
I’m absolutely delighted
00:55:44 ►
and I have immense resistance to it. And every time I do it, I’m absolutely delighted.
00:55:48 ►
And I have immense resistance to it.
00:55:52 ►
And every time I do it, it’s just like, yes, I remember.
00:55:55 ►
And they scream in greeting.
00:55:57 ►
I mean, they just turn out by the dozens.
00:55:59 ►
Say, here he is.
00:56:01 ►
Tremendous.
00:56:02 ►
You send so many.
00:56:04 ►
You come so rarely. Well, let’s get on with the show!
00:56:07 ►
And then, you know, the Faberge eggs, the dance, the whole thing.
00:56:15 ►
It’s boundary dissolving is what it is,
00:56:18 ►
and we have a real aversion to that.
00:56:20 ►
When the boundary that’s dissolved is serious,
00:56:23 ►
we have a real aversion to it
00:56:25 ►
and the other thing about DMT
00:56:28 ►
that’s fascinating that I should
00:56:29 ►
have mentioned I suppose
00:56:31 ►
is that
00:56:32 ►
we
00:56:35 ►
associate these drug
00:56:37 ►
experiences with
00:56:39 ►
slight alterations
00:56:42 ►
of our judgment
00:56:43 ►
you know when you drink liquor,
00:56:47 ►
you become socially capable of taking risks
00:56:52 ►
that you wouldn’t ordinarily take.
00:56:54 ►
I’m speaking of guys now.
00:56:57 ►
In other words, the liquor slightly changes your judgment
00:57:02 ►
about what is proper and what you can get away with and so forth and so on.
00:57:06 ►
The strange thing about DMT is it doesn’t affect your mind.
00:57:12 ►
It does not affect your mind.
00:57:15 ►
So you come into that place neither happier nor sadder than where you left.
00:57:30 ►
You are not stimulated. You are not depressed. You are not anything different. You are exactly the same person that you were. And yet the world has
00:57:39 ►
disappeared. It’s been completely replaced. 100% swap out, and here you are in this elf nest.
00:57:48 ►
And if you were on ketamine and you were to wander into this elf nest, it would just be fine, because everything is fine on ketamine.
00:57:59 ►
The first thing you notice when you do ketamine is that you’ve stopped worrying about the fact that you just did ketamine. It impairs your judgment, in other words. Or maybe it doesn’t. Maybe it’s
00:58:12 ►
appropriate to not worry on ketamine. But I like to keep my wits about me. And on DMT, you keep all
00:58:20 ►
your wits about you. It isn’t about you. People say, well, I’m depressed.
00:58:25 ►
Should I do it? Or I just had a big fight
00:58:28 ►
with my girlfriend. Should I do it?
00:58:30 ►
What difference does it make?
00:58:32 ►
Who cares about
00:58:33 ►
you and your problems?
00:58:36 ►
It’s not like that.
00:58:38 ►
It’s what it is.
00:58:41 ►
And you can
00:58:41 ►
have it or not have it or whatever.
00:58:44 ►
It’s very, very convincingly another place.
00:58:49 ►
And that’s startling.
00:58:55 ►
I always close my eyes because I want to see inside.
00:59:00 ►
If you keep your eyes open it’s plenty peculiar
00:59:05 ►
I mean everything changes
00:59:08 ►
and if you take a big enough hit
00:59:11 ►
you can’t tell whether your eyes are open or closed
00:59:15 ►
that distinction seems trivial
00:59:18 ►
you’re just there
00:59:20 ►
eyes open or eyes closed
00:59:22 ►
but I like to do it on a sunny hillside
00:59:25 ►
outside
00:59:27 ►
it’s the only one of these things that I like to do in light
00:59:31 ►
it’ll work in darkness
00:59:34 ►
but light is spectacular
00:59:36 ►
just lie down on a sunny hillside
00:59:40 ►
calm down, breathe deeply
00:59:43 ►
if you’ve had to climb to get to where you are
00:59:46 ►
breathe that all away
00:59:49 ►
you want to be absolutely calm and still
00:59:52 ►
and I do it alone
00:59:54 ►
because I make strange noises and stuff
00:59:58 ►
and I don’t want to be interrupted
01:00:00 ►
critiqued, helped or any of that malarkey
01:00:04 ►
and then I just do it
01:00:07 ►
and there’s nothing like it on this planet
01:00:11 ►
and the puzzle of it is
01:00:14 ►
there’s nothing like it in human history
01:00:17 ►
no secret society
01:00:19 ►
no Gnostic cabal
01:00:22 ►
no group of Talmudists or Tantrics
01:00:26 ►
I think ever came near this
01:00:29 ►
there may be other mysteries in this world
01:00:33 ►
that I know nothing of
01:00:35 ►
that are in fact the private
01:00:37 ►
and closely guarded property
01:00:39 ►
of these lineages
01:00:40 ►
and all that
01:00:41 ►
who knows
01:00:42 ►
but this
01:00:43 ►
this was the hope diamond
01:00:46 ►
lying around unclaimed,
01:00:48 ►
just sitting on the surface.
01:00:51 ►
You said that there was rapid eye movement,
01:00:54 ►
which sounded like it was almost like a level of sleep,
01:00:59 ►
but it sounds like you’re describing
01:01:01 ►
what would be more like lucid dreaming.
01:01:03 ►
Like lucid dreaming, yesid dreaming yes so you did
01:01:05 ►
come away um conscious of what the experience was well you do sort of but like dreams it’s very hard
01:01:15 ►
to hang on to you have to do dmt a fair number of times to build up any notion of it. It’s very interesting. At minute, I mean somebody smokes it, right?
01:01:25 ►
At minute three, they can’t
01:01:27 ►
speak. At minute
01:01:30 ►
seven, they can’t
01:01:32 ►
stop speaking about how
01:01:34 ►
absolutely amazed, appalled
01:01:36 ►
and exalted they are.
01:01:38 ►
And at minute twelve,
01:01:40 ►
they can’t remember what they were talking about
01:01:42 ►
at minute seven.
01:01:44 ►
And you, finally, a half an hour after doing it,
01:01:50 ►
really the only impression most people have after the first time
01:01:54 ►
is they say, it was the weirdest thing which ever happened to me
01:01:59 ►
and I cannot remember anything about it.
01:02:04 ►
It’s like there’s a, I think, you know, physiologically
01:02:07 ►
speaking, there’s no transcription of short-term RNA into memory. It’s memory can’t hold it.
01:02:15 ►
And I think that’s because memory works through associative triangulation. You know, this car looks like that car, this city, Lisbon,
01:02:26 ►
reminds me of San Francisco or Rio.
01:02:29 ►
But if you have an experience
01:02:31 ►
that’s utterly outside category,
01:02:34 ►
you have no triangulation of it.
01:02:37 ►
You can’t say.
01:02:39 ►
And I am very aware, you know,
01:02:42 ►
when I tell the story
01:02:43 ►
of the self-transforming elf machines
01:02:45 ►
and the glossolalia and all that, that it’s a kind of a lie.
01:02:51 ►
It’s not true, but it points toward a truth that can’t be told.
01:03:02 ►
70 milligrams, and then what happens is you have to take several hits.
01:03:10 ►
Well, it depends on your sensitivity. This is another thing that needs to be studied
01:03:14 ►
by science. Some people seem practically on the brink of it. I mean, in other words, you
01:03:22 ►
put 70 milligrams in the pipe,
01:03:26 ►
you tell them that it’s probably going to take three enormous tokes.
01:03:29 ►
Will they get halfway through one shallow toke,
01:03:33 ►
fall down, speak in tongues,
01:03:37 ►
twitch, moan, flail?
01:03:40 ►
It seems inappropriate to suggest
01:03:42 ►
that they do three more tokes.
01:03:45 ►
So, you know, and then, but for me,
01:03:54 ►
well, I can do it on one toke
01:03:56 ►
if it’s a real, tremendous, enormous hash toke.
01:04:00 ►
What I usually do is I take one small toke
01:04:03 ►
and it kind of anesthetizes my throat.
01:04:07 ►
And then on the second one, you go for broke.
01:04:11 ►
But it does require a certain amount of courage
01:04:14 ►
because when you take the first toke,
01:04:18 ►
you immediately feel it.
01:04:20 ►
You don’t feel the trip, but you feel
01:04:23 ►
that something astonishing is happening
01:04:26 ►
inside your body it’s a weird kind of it’s as though all the air has been
01:04:32 ►
pumped out of the room all edges jump forward with clarity that’s the visual
01:04:39 ►
acuity thing but more than that a kind of feeling of of I guess it’s
01:04:48 ►
anesthesia or something
01:04:49 ►
but your body feels
01:04:52 ►
very very different and
01:04:54 ►
you still must do
01:04:56 ►
one more enormous
01:04:58 ►
toke so what we tell people is
01:05:00 ►
even though you feel very weird
01:05:02 ►
don’t stop
01:05:03 ►
that’s not sufficient
01:05:05 ►
you have to get it on the money
01:05:06 ►
and we’re even developing
01:05:09 ►
a new technique for doing it
01:05:13 ►
that I’m very excited about
01:05:16 ►
which is we have what looks like a pipe
01:05:19 ►
coming into a glass vessel
01:05:22 ►
or I mean just a channel a cylinder coming into a glass vessel, or I mean just a channel, a cylinder,
01:05:27 ►
coming into a glass vessel.
01:05:29 ►
And out of the glass vessel comes another tube
01:05:33 ►
with a fork in it.
01:05:35 ►
And what you do is you vaporize the DMT.
01:05:42 ►
It fills the reaction chamber with white smoke.
01:05:46 ►
You put the forked ends into your nostril
01:05:49 ►
and you have a friend blow the white smoke
01:05:53 ►
and just force it into your sinus cavity.
01:05:58 ►
This is an adaptation of the Yanomamo method,
01:06:02 ►
but they use woody, it’s like
01:06:05 ►
sawdust.
01:06:07 ►
But this is
01:06:09 ►
profound.
01:06:11 ►
So those three hits you would find in the 70 milligrams.
01:06:14 ►
70 milligrams would produce
01:06:15 ►
three good.
01:06:16 ►
Yeah, what you do is you measure the 70 milligrams
01:06:19 ►
and you put it in the pipe
01:06:21 ►
and then you try to smoke the pipe
01:06:23 ►
until either you get it all in the pipe and then you try to smoke the pipe until either you get it all
01:06:26 ►
or the pipe falls from your hand.
01:06:30 ►
And what I do when I turn people on
01:06:33 ►
is I try to get them to do one or two tokes
01:06:36 ►
or three, whatever it takes,
01:06:38 ►
until they flop back and they present.
01:06:42 ►
You can tell whether they’re getting off or not.
01:06:45 ►
And then the minute they flop back I look at
01:06:48 ►
the second hand of my watch
01:06:49 ►
and I count 30 seconds
01:06:52 ►
and then I say
01:06:54 ►
in a very quiet voice
01:06:55 ►
do you want another
01:06:57 ►
hit and if
01:06:59 ►
they sit up
01:07:01 ►
unaided I’ll give it
01:07:03 ►
to them if they can’t sit up, then I figure no matter
01:07:08 ►
what they say, they’re out of bounds. And sometimes it takes it. There is a resistance
01:07:16 ►
there, but when you punch through, it’s pure high vacuum on the other side it just sucks you right in doing it
01:07:26 ►
well
01:07:28 ►
actually yeah
01:07:29 ►
I have
01:07:32 ►
tapes I’ve never published tapes
01:07:34 ►
of me actually loaded
01:07:35 ►
but I’ve
01:07:36 ►
because they’re low quality
01:07:39 ►
made on some little
01:07:41 ►
I used to
01:07:43 ►
I had a period where I would take very high doses
01:07:46 ►
of mushrooms, like eight dried grams, and then smoke DMT on top of it, and that all
01:07:51 ►
went on in a tent in the Hawaiian rainforest, and I had a little recorder with me, but it’s
01:07:59 ►
interesting. The glossolalia, as to what it sounds like, it sounds like this. E-D-G-Y-W-A-W-G-I-M-K-E-P-E-D-G-I-N-G-E-T
01:08:10 ►
E-F-W-A-H-A-X-I-K-E-P-E-D-G-U-J-V-I-W-A-H-A-G-A-M-A-E-C-T-E-T
01:08:16 ►
And somehow, that syntactically structured but meaningless kind of vocalization becomes the basis of an ecstasy
01:08:26 ►
of some sort for some reason.
01:08:30 ►
And of course what’s happening in the DMT thing
01:08:33 ►
is there is a three-dimensional accompaniment.
01:08:37 ►
You hear sounds,
01:08:39 ►
but the person making the sounds
01:08:41 ►
is seeing what they’re making.
01:08:43 ►
They’re not hearing.
01:08:44 ►
The sounds are incidental.
01:08:47 ►
They’re like the sounds from a buzzsaw
01:08:50 ►
when you make furniture.
01:08:52 ►
The important thing is the furniture you make.
01:08:56 ►
And you can, that’s why virtual reality
01:08:59 ►
interests me so much.
01:09:01 ►
Because my idea of a design program
01:09:04 ►
for virtual reality is
01:09:06 ►
go thou and simulate a DMT flash.
01:09:11 ►
That would have a commercial application.
01:09:16 ►
You could sell that.
01:09:17 ►
Industrial Light and Magic would be interested.
01:09:20 ►
And then we could give people DMT
01:09:23 ►
and then put them,
01:09:25 ►
and then after they came down,
01:09:27 ►
put them into the virtual reality simulator
01:09:29 ►
and say, critique, please.
01:09:34 ►
You know, is this what you saw?
01:09:35 ►
How is this different from what you saw?
01:09:38 ►
What changes would you make
01:09:40 ►
in this virtual reality environment
01:09:42 ►
to make it more DMT-like?
01:09:44 ►
And I think this is the way to build consensus.
01:09:48 ►
I’ve always said that the purpose of these technologies
01:09:51 ►
is to show each other the inside of our own heads.
01:09:56 ►
Dreams, but especially psychedelic drug states.
01:10:01 ►
And I think this is probably coming
01:10:05 ►
I think that we will have
01:10:08 ►
you know that in the
01:10:10 ►
future you may
01:10:12 ►
take you may have psychedelic
01:10:14 ►
experiences but they may not be
01:10:16 ►
your own we may
01:10:18 ►
develop the equivalent of
01:10:20 ►
media stars
01:10:21 ►
who do it so
01:10:24 ►
well that you will just
01:10:26 ►
buy their CD
01:10:28 ►
and do their trip
01:10:30 ►
remember in
01:10:32 ►
which book was it
01:10:34 ►
by Philip K. Dick
01:10:35 ►
or maybe it wasn’t
01:10:37 ►
I can’t remember
01:10:39 ►
but the science fiction story
01:10:41 ►
where this virginal
01:10:43 ►
16 year old girl
01:10:44 ►
with long blonde hair and perfect surfer body and so forth and so on,
01:10:50 ►
and she recorded and sold herself.
01:10:55 ►
That was the product because she was so vital and so young
01:11:00 ►
and so bouncy and together that everybody wanted to be this young woman.
01:11:06 ►
And so they sold sim vids
01:11:09 ►
and she was on the top ten for a few months
01:11:13 ►
and then somebody else slipped in there.
01:11:16 ►
And transmigration of Timothy Archer could have been.
01:11:23 ►
Anything more? Yes.
01:11:25 ►
How’s your health?
01:11:27 ►
How’s my health?
01:11:29 ►
Good, I think, unless some horrible thing
01:11:32 ►
is lurking in the background.
01:11:34 ►
I have low cholesterol.
01:11:40 ►
My health profile is pretty uninteresting, I think.
01:11:43 ►
Let me see, what’s the most interesting thing?
01:11:48 ►
The most chronic thing wrong with me is migraines,
01:11:52 ►
and I’ve sort of learned to manage them.
01:11:54 ►
I don’t take drugs for migraine.
01:11:56 ►
I physically manipulate to an acupressure point.
01:12:03 ►
Do you mean, do I think drugs have done anything to me?
01:12:08 ►
Well, not necessarily do I think that they’ve done,
01:12:10 ►
or do you think they’ve done anything to you,
01:12:12 ►
but in my experience, you know, sometimes I’m tired later or whatever,
01:12:16 ►
I feel there’s a drain, and so I wonder, since you seem to do a lot,
01:12:21 ►
do you do anything to maintain your health?
01:12:24 ►
Oh, I go to the gym three days a week. I smoke enormous amounts of cannabis. I mean, I just
01:12:34 ►
always have. No, I think I’m pretty healthy and fairly ordinary.
01:12:48 ►
It’s a somewhat sensitive question because at one point Dennis claimed
01:12:51 ►
that the only thing that would ever happen to me
01:12:53 ►
was that my hair would get white
01:12:55 ►
and I’m waiting for some other sign.
01:13:01 ►
I’m not sure.
01:13:04 ►
No, I don’t think
01:13:06 ►
if the core of your question is
01:13:09 ►
do these drugs pose a problem to health
01:13:11 ►
I don’t think so
01:13:13 ►
the only possible problem to health
01:13:18 ►
that any of these drugs might pose
01:13:20 ►
is I do wonder about the
01:13:23 ►
act of smoking cannabis but
01:13:27 ►
one can eat cannabis and meet all the objections
01:13:32 ►
to it and still be loaded to the gills so that’s
01:13:36 ►
a delivery problem not a problem inherent to
01:13:40 ►
the drug it isn’t the cannabis I’m worried about it’s the tars
01:13:43 ►
and there are no tars
01:13:45 ►
if you eat it.
01:13:48 ►
And
01:13:48 ►
in most places in the world
01:13:51 ►
where it has had a long
01:13:53 ►
history, it is eaten.
01:13:56 ►
Opium as well.
01:13:57 ►
You know, opium was not smoked
01:13:59 ►
in the Orient
01:14:00 ►
until tobacco was
01:14:03 ►
introduced.
01:14:09 ►
It was always, you took a little pea-sized piece of opium and dissolved it in wine or a cup of tea.
01:14:13 ►
And that’s the classic.
01:14:14 ►
And hashish was eaten in most cases
01:14:18 ►
up until the late 19th century.
01:14:21 ►
Again, the influence of tobacco
01:14:22 ►
brought on the tendency to smoke these things. I don’t
01:14:28 ►
think that, I mean, on this question of health, I don’t think people should be loaded all
01:14:32 ►
the time, other than cannabis or something like that. But I mean psychedelic voyages
01:14:39 ►
are trips away from home. They are trips away from home. And we go away from home
01:14:45 ►
if we’re able to afford it
01:14:49 ►
several times a year.
01:14:50 ►
That sounds about right.
01:14:52 ►
The other thing I’m no fan of,
01:14:55 ►
and I suppose I should say it
01:14:56 ►
and then let you go,
01:14:58 ►
is I do not believe,
01:15:01 ►
as a rule,
01:15:03 ►
I mean, I would break the rule
01:15:04 ►
in some cases, but as a rule I mean I would break the rule in some cases but as a rule
01:15:07 ►
I think it’s bad to combine
01:15:09 ►
drugs
01:15:10 ►
you know if very little
01:15:13 ►
is known about these drugs
01:15:15 ►
a thousand times less
01:15:17 ►
is known about what happens
01:15:19 ►
when you start combining things
01:15:21 ►
and you know I know people
01:15:23 ►
who are really druggy
01:15:24 ►
I mean I know people who are really druggy. I mean, I know people who say, well, we got together last night and we smoked a little dope and then dropped some MDMA and somebody had some 5-MeO DMT and after that we used the ketamine to kind of mellow it out. Well, if you were to tell me that these people died of coronary thrombosis
01:15:49 ►
or stroke or anything else,
01:15:52 ►
I wouldn’t be surprised.
01:15:54 ►
I mean, that’s nuts to pile one drug upon another like that.
01:15:59 ►
And then they say, oh, well, how was it?
01:16:02 ►
I say, it was far out, man.
01:16:05 ►
Whoa, my God, I would certainly hope so.
01:16:08 ►
We’re not likely to revisit that combination anytime soon,
01:16:12 ►
so I hope you took good notes.
01:16:15 ►
No, I think high doses of pure compounds,
01:16:19 ►
high doses, heroic doses,
01:16:22 ►
find out the LD50 for the drugs you’re interested in so that when
01:16:27 ►
you’re in there and your mind tells you, well, now you’re going to die, you can at least
01:16:34 ►
have a dialogue with it about how that’s impossible because you only took one two hundredth of
01:16:40 ►
the lethally effective dose. If you don’t know what the lethal dose is
01:16:45 ►
and your mind starts telling you you’re dying,
01:16:49 ►
you’re just its creature to play with.
01:16:53 ►
So it’s very important to inform yourself
01:16:57 ►
of the pharmacology, the botany,
01:17:02 ►
the ethnomedical dimensions of these things, the physiological presentation, the ethno-medical dimensions of these things,
01:17:05 ►
the physiological presentation of the state,
01:17:10 ►
the anecdotal accounts of what goes on,
01:17:14 ►
and then do it, and do it right.
01:17:19 ►
Do it on an empty stomach, in darkness if that’s indicated,
01:17:23 ►
and this whole thing about the guide. If you’re
01:17:27 ►
not familiar with these things, you need a sitter. But a sitter is not a guide. A sitter
01:17:33 ►
is to call 911. And guides, anybody who tells you they’re going to guide you, doesn’t know the territory. Nobody can guide anybody else.
01:17:46 ►
They’re just there to reassure.
01:17:49 ►
If I have a sitter,
01:17:52 ►
they’re at least one room away,
01:17:55 ►
and I have a little Tibetan gong or something,
01:17:58 ►
and they can pop their head in if I ring it.
01:18:01 ►
But I don’t like being around people when I’m stoned. And I really don’t
01:18:06 ►
like being around stoned people when I’m stoned.
01:18:09 ►
Is that good for pot as well?
01:18:10 ►
No, no. Pot is like cold water. But the reason I don’t like to be around people when I’m
01:18:18 ►
stoned and they’re stoned is because I worry about them. If I take five grams of mushrooms
01:18:26 ►
and somebody else takes five grams of mushrooms
01:18:28 ►
and we’re lying side by side in a darkened room,
01:18:32 ►
I’m worrying about them.
01:18:35 ►
I’m listening.
01:18:36 ►
Can I hear them breathing?
01:18:38 ►
Can I hear them breathing?
01:18:40 ►
Well, say I can’t.
01:18:41 ►
Well then, but maybe they are breathing.
01:18:44 ►
Well, but then if I bother them
01:18:46 ►
maybe something really profound
01:18:47 ►
is happening to them
01:18:48 ►
so then
01:18:49 ►
and my mind just turns into
01:18:51 ►
a nattering moron
01:18:53 ►
of some sort
01:18:54 ►
out of worry
01:18:55 ►
for the other person
01:18:57 ►
and some weird sense of responsibility
01:18:59 ►
usually because I’m the
01:19:01 ►
the advocate
01:19:03 ►
if not the provider
01:19:04 ►
so you know take all this with a grain of salt
01:19:09 ►
process it through your own filters
01:19:11 ►
proclivities, eccentricities and so forth and so on
01:19:15 ►
and let’s get together at 4
01:19:18 ►
thank you
01:19:19 ►
thank you
01:19:20 ►
you’re listening to the psychedelic salon Thank you. Thank you.
01:19:29 ►
You’re listening to The Psychedelic Salon,
01:19:32 ►
where people are changing their lives one thought at a time.
01:19:39 ►
Well, that wasn’t exactly a rousing ovation that we just heard for the bard.
01:19:42 ►
In fact, a good many of Terence’s workshops,
01:19:47 ►
particularly in the early years of his career, were sometimes sparsely attended.
01:19:57 ►
Yet, Terrence never let his audience down, and that’s a good lesson, I think, for any of our younger fellow salonners out there who are putting their toes in the speaking waters, so to speak.
01:20:03 ►
Years ago, I traveled around the country on a motivational speaking circuit.
01:20:08 ►
That’s right, I was a motivational speaker, and I flew hot air balloons for a hobby.
01:20:13 ►
Most people figured that I used my own hot air to lift the balloon, but that’s another story.
01:20:18 ►
What I was trying to say before I so rudely interrupted myself here is that if you are a new speaker or a conference organizer,
01:20:22 ►
there are going to be times when your audience is significantly
01:20:25 ►
smaller than you hoped for.
01:20:26 ►
And it’s at those times, most of all, that you need to focus on the fact that the people
01:20:31 ►
who did come are your most important fans.
01:20:34 ►
Give them more than they bargained for and you won’t regret it.
01:20:38 ►
And before I forget to mention this, we heard Terrence just now say that he began talking
01:20:43 ►
in public about psychedelics in 1982.
01:20:47 ►
Well, I’ve managed to come across three 1982 talks, and you can listen to those in podcasts 270, 317, and 318, if you’re so inclined.
01:20:58 ►
I probably don’t have to keep repeating this every time that Terrence gives a detailed description of one of his DMT trips,
01:21:05 ►
but for our newcomers here, I want you to know that I describe things somewhat differently.
01:21:11 ►
However, the biggest difference of some of my experiences when compared to what Terrence said,
01:21:16 ►
at least at the beginning of this talk, is that while he felt he was in a low-ceilinged room that was underground,
01:21:23 ►
I felt I was in a huge cavernous room whose ceiling caused me to think that I was in a large-ceilinged room that was underground, I felt I was in a huge cavernous room whose
01:21:26 ►
ceiling caused me to think that I was in a large cathedral of some kind, and that the
01:21:30 ►
high ceiling and roof were made of clear amber-colored crystal. But I guess that you really had to
01:21:36 ►
be there and see it for yourself.
01:21:39 ►
Now before I go, there is one announcement that may interest you, and that is the Symposia
01:21:43 ►
Psychedelic Conference that’s going to
01:21:46 ►
take place from April 17th
01:21:47 ►
through the 19th. Now this
01:21:49 ►
conference is going to take place in Amherst,
01:21:51 ►
Massachusetts. However
01:21:53 ►
if getting there would be kind of a stretch
01:21:55 ►
for you, you can also live stream
01:21:57 ►
the entire conference for only $20.
01:22:00 ►
And among the many
01:22:01 ►
speakers that you will hear at this conference are
01:22:04 ►
Earth and Fire Arrowwood and Nisei Debeno, all of whom have been featured here in the salon in the past.
01:22:10 ►
It looks like it’s going to be a really interesting conference, and I’m looking forward to listening to it online myself.
01:22:17 ►
The link is www.symposia.com, which is spelled really funny.
01:22:22 ►
It’s spelled P-S-Y-M-P-O-S-I-A, symposia.com.
01:22:28 ►
And I’ll post that with the program notes for today’s show,
01:22:31 ►
which you can get to via psychedelicsalon.us.
01:22:34 ►
And for now, this is Lorenzo signing off from the cyberdelic space.
01:22:39 ►
Be careful out there, my friends. Thank you.