Program Notes
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Guest speaker: Glenn Irving
https://thankyouplantmedicine.com/Photo by Sharon McCutcheon
Date this lecture was recorded: January 13, 2020.
Today’s podcast features an interview with Glenn Irving who is a volunteer with the project known as#ThankYouPlantMedicine. As the project’s title tells you, this is a world-wide effort to spread the word about ways in which the plants have come to our aid. The first mission of this project is to encourage 100,000 people to tell their psychedelic plant stories in public. You may be amused at the social media platform where Lorenzo plans to post his psychedelic story on February 20th.
Thank You Plant Medicine
Envision Festival
Feb 17-24, 2020 | Costa Rica
Drug Control: National Policies
Dr. A.C. Germann, Professor Emeritus
Department of Criminal Justice
California State University, Long Beach
If the ears of all the people in the nation who had ingested illicit substances in the past six months were to turn bright green for one whole week, the nation would be amazed, confused, astounded, and quickly taught something very important as they identified friends, relatives, neighbors, doctors, lawyers, accountants, priests, nuns, ministers, rabbis, soldiers, policemen, firemen, military personnel, businessmen, teachers, students, politicians, respected policy makers, administrators, supervisors, and workers from a variety of private and government institutions everywhere.
Psychedelic Storytelling
Veterans for Entheogenic Therapy
Salon2 011 – “Psychedelic Therapy for Veterans”
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Transcript
00:00:00 ►
Greetings from cyberdelic space.
00:00:20 ►
This is Lorenzo and I’m your host here in the psychedelic salon.
00:00:24 ►
And today I’m going to play a recording from the live salon that was held just two days ago.
00:00:29 ►
And our guest then was Glenn Gertler, who is a volunteer with the project known as
00:00:34 ►
Hashtag Thank You Plant Medicine.
00:00:37 ►
As the project’s title tells you, this is an effort, well, it’s a worldwide effort, I should add.
00:00:43 ►
And it’s an effort to spread the
00:00:45 ►
word about ways in which the plants have come to our aid. And the first mission of this project
00:00:50 ►
is to encourage 100,000 people to tell their psychedelic plant stories in public on February
00:00:57 ►
20th, 2020. So without any further ado, here’s a recording of our conversation.
00:01:03 ►
Without any further ado, here’s a recording of our conversation.
00:01:10 ►
Rather than begin with how this got started and all like that, we’ll jump up to that.
00:01:16 ►
I’m excited about this February 20th announcement. And so let’s start with what all is being projected to happen on the February 20th of 2020, just a few weeks from now, actually.
00:01:27 ►
Absolutely. So essentially, February 20th, 2020 is the 10-year anniversary of the Envision Festival,
00:01:37 ►
which is a week-long festival based in Costa Rica, not unsimilar to Burning Man that we have here in
00:01:43 ►
the States. And essentially, the Thank You Plant Medicine campaign, the global grassroots movement that
00:01:50 ►
I’m working on here, along with almost 500 other volunteers across 50 plus countries
00:01:57 ►
are piecing together over 100,000 stories regarding inspirational and transformational experiences
00:02:07 ►
that folks have had with the use of either plant medicine or psychedelic medicine.
00:02:12 ►
And the idea is that by accumulating all of this gratitude,
00:02:16 ►
we are pushing stigma in a positive direction.
00:02:19 ►
So that way, the efficacy of these different medicines can be used.
00:02:24 ►
And in the same token, you know,
00:02:26 ►
we’re not trying to shortchange some of the shortcomings that come along with
00:02:30 ►
them as well. It’s really about creating this community,
00:02:34 ►
getting a better feel for how these things can work and how these things can
00:02:38 ►
help people in the future.
00:02:39 ►
And the idea is by piecing together these stories,
00:02:42 ►
we’re putting together strong anecdotal evidence that people who are not familiar can relate to.
00:02:49 ►
And even beyond the coming out day, we’ll then have this massive community of support where we can then continue to push these medicines into the future.
00:03:05 ►
the thing that really struck my heart when I first heard what you all are putting together is a conversation I had a little over 20 years ago with a man named Dr. Germain. And it was at
00:03:14 ►
Terrence McKenna’s last conference before he died in Hawaii, the one he had over in his island near his home. And this guy, he and his wife, I was introduced to them.
00:03:30 ►
And he was the man who actually founded the School of Criminal Law
00:03:35 ►
at Long Beach State University.
00:03:37 ►
So he and his wife were introduced to me with all the background and all.
00:03:42 ►
And two nights before, they’d been on a NASA trip.
00:03:47 ►
And they were like the oldest people there, really old.
00:03:52 ►
And I just discovered today when I checked it out that I’m now about four or five years older than he was at the time.
00:03:59 ►
But he seemed really old, you know.
00:04:01 ►
And he gave me this essay that he wrote.
00:04:04 ►
He seemed really old, you know, and he gave me this essay that he wrote.
00:04:10 ►
And I’ll add a link to it in the beginning of the program notes for the podcast.
00:04:16 ►
But he wrote an essay that I published and he asked me to, and I published it on a number of places, where he listed all of the occupations of people that he knew had taken psychedelics or some sort of an illegal substance in the
00:04:26 ►
previous six months.
00:04:28 ►
And he listed over 40 occupations, you know, nuns, priests, judges, lawyers, cops.
00:04:35 ►
And since then, you know, it’s been only an easing, a general, you know, seeping out here,
00:04:42 ►
there and everywhere.
00:04:43 ►
You know, when I started this podcast 15 years ago,
00:04:46 ►
I really even hesitated to use the word psychedelic because, you know,
00:04:51 ►
it becomes so toxic. And now, you know,
00:04:54 ►
it’s through a lot of reasons it’s come out,
00:04:56 ►
but in particular because of the plants,
00:04:59 ►
they are telling us to tell this story and what you all are starting to bring
00:05:04 ►
about now is, is Dr. Germain’s
00:05:06 ►
dream is that the way he wrote the essay, he said, if everybody who had taken an illicit substance
00:05:13 ►
in the last six months, if their ears turned green, and what your hashtag is, is, hey,
00:05:19 ►
look at all these green ears, you know, so’s exactly the point. We’ll rewind a little bit.
00:05:25 ►
No, I didn’t mean to kind of take your thunder away there,
00:05:28 ►
but to let you know that this has been a dream of a lot of us old people for a long time.
00:05:33 ►
And so how did this come about?
00:05:36 ►
You know, it’s come about seemingly quickly, you know, in a year or so.
00:05:40 ►
Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:41 ►
So it was about last July when two of our founders, just a couple of buddies
00:05:46 ►
living in Costa Rica, who had, you know, not unlike all these other people that we’re talking about,
00:05:53 ►
these transformational healing types of experiences in sacred plant medicine ceremonies.
00:05:59 ►
And they decided, you know what, you know, we’re going to tell our story, more people to have
00:06:04 ►
access to these safe spaces,
00:06:06 ►
and we’re just going to see how many people we can accumulate.
00:06:10 ►
The 100,000 goal was a pipe dream when it first started out,
00:06:16 ►
but at this point it seems like even a low goalpost.
00:06:19 ►
Now we have some of our European-based partners telling us
00:06:23 ►
we can get over a million stories.
00:06:25 ►
Then we now have the makings for a whole political movement, which, to be clear, Thank You Plant Medicine is an apolitical movement.
00:06:34 ►
We are a gratitude campaign.
00:06:37 ►
We are the centerpiece for a lot of different actors within this community to come together.
00:06:44 ►
And actually a good example of that is we’ve started conducting these mastermind calls once a week
00:06:50 ►
where we have various representatives from media outlets, political movements, research facilities
00:06:58 ►
that come together and try and gain a wider perspective on what the future looks like for these medicines,
00:07:09 ►
how we can actually shift stigma, and how we can have these conversations with people who don’t understand.
00:07:18 ►
And that, as well as one of the biggest points of contention that I’ve placed,
00:07:22 ►
is that this isn’t just a movement for the people
00:07:25 ►
who wish to take part in these various medicines and these various therapies. It’s similar to
00:07:31 ►
vegetarianism or smoking in that it is a choice to not eat meat or to not smoke a cigarette.
00:07:39 ►
And it’s my goal to fight for your right to have a choice to take part in plant medicines or not.
00:07:45 ►
You know, this is, of course, you know, in the grand scheme of things, a cutting edge movement in terms of mental health.
00:07:54 ►
But it’s also a huge deal in terms of body autonomy and individual freedom.
00:08:05 ►
well what what your your idea is for for this whole movement as i see it really is uh right in line with what i’ve always been trying to do here in the salon
00:08:10 ►
is to make it okay around the water cooler at work or at a church picnic to talk about psychedelics
00:08:16 ►
and uh you know so many veterans i’m you know i’m i’m still a licensed attorney in texas i’m a
00:08:23 ►
vietnam veteran i i used to be a republican I used to be a Catholic. Those two are gone.
00:08:30 ►
But, you know, I’m an ex-military, I’m an ex-lawyer, I’m an ex-Catholic, but I’m also still sympathetic with a lot of those mindsets because a lot of my friends are still
00:08:45 ►
there and i know what i was like when i was there and it was the plant medicines that have really
00:08:51 ►
taken me back to who i was as a child as a young man and the dreams and hopes and how i felt about
00:08:57 ►
the planet and other people and that’s what it does and like you just said it’s it’s not for
00:09:02 ►
everybody but it should be allowable for everybody
00:09:05 ►
to at least discuss it and be free to to talk about it and have no stigma attached to it yeah
00:09:12 ►
the major problem is really when we when we circle back to you know what’s now known as the second
00:09:17 ►
wave of psychedelics you know the first wave of psychedelics would be indigenous use second wave
00:09:23 ►
of psychedelics is you know the uh the 60s counterculture movement,
00:09:27 ►
even before that, starting in the 50s
00:09:28 ►
with some of the research that was going on.
00:09:32 ►
You know, MK Ultra, Alice Huxley,
00:09:34 ►
that whole brand there.
00:09:35 ►
But there’s still very much that toxic identification,
00:09:42 ►
you know, as you said, with the word psychedelic.
00:09:44 ►
We break that word down and, you said, with the word psychedelic.
00:09:50 ►
We break that word down and psyche, mind, delics, Greek delos, manifesting,
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and we’re talking about simply mind manifesting experiences.
00:09:59 ►
That doesn’t even necessarily refer to these different plants or chemicals.
00:10:03 ►
It can be any sort of experience that raises consciousness. So we you know, we really need to take a second look
00:10:05 ►
at how we treat that word, how we understand these various non-toxic, non-addictive substances that
00:10:13 ►
are having, you know, unbelievable impact. You know, if we look at even, you know, to branch
00:10:19 ►
away from plant medicine for a second, MDMA and the PTSD veteran community. You know, we’re having veterans that are showing absolutely remarkable indicators
00:10:28 ►
of improvement in terms of their PTSD 12 months after a session.
00:10:33 ►
You know, that’s unheard of compared to, you know, a cognitive behavioral therapist
00:10:37 ►
who’s going to have you come in, you know, every day for 12 weeks
00:10:41 ►
and hope that you can integrate.
00:10:42 ►
Now, that’s not to say that CBT isn’t important.
00:10:45 ►
The two have a place in conjunction together.
00:10:48 ►
But the thing is that, as you’re saying, we need to be able to talk about these things.
00:10:53 ►
We need these substances to be scheduled properly so we can do more research,
00:10:57 ►
better understand the shortcomings, understand the varying dosages.
00:11:01 ►
Now that microdosing is showing how effective that can be in
00:11:06 ►
terms of integrating into our day-to-day life and you know the fact of the matter is we’re still in
00:11:10 ►
the hangover from nixon’s war on drugs and it just doesn’t make any sense yeah you you of course you
00:11:16 ►
know as you really know you’re preaching to the choir here oh i know but uh uh we we uh uh have So we have a really very varied audience, but a large number of our people are your age.
00:11:31 ►
You know, they’re 35 and under.
00:11:33 ►
And we also have a lot of young people who are sort of out on the edge, you know, that if they’re not in a big city,
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if they’re not on the coast or in one of the major cities,
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particularly people out in the farmlands and stuff.
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I went to high school in a town that had 10,000 people in it.
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It doesn’t have quite that many today.
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So the kids in those places are really out there and lonely.
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And so we’re talking to them as well because they don’t have a place to go.
00:12:01 ►
One of the things that I want to bring up is maybe not an issue anymore. And,
00:12:09 ►
you know, I’m, I’m, I can say, okay, boomer, because I’m not a boomer. I’m older than the
00:12:16 ►
boomers. You know, Franklin Roosevelt wasn’t halfway through his second term.
00:12:19 ►
That’s the greatest okay, boomer comeback I’ve heard so far.
00:12:23 ►
And I say it quite often quite frankly i agree
00:12:27 ►
with it but you know if you if you have patience and give them time they’ll finally evolve out of
00:12:32 ►
that to where i finally made it you know i guess we’ll be talking through that you know i sometime
00:12:37 ►
they’ll be saying okay zeer yeah exactly now i’ve i’ve totally, being an old guy, lost my train of thought.
00:12:46 ►
Oh, here’s what I was thinking.
00:12:48 ►
You know, it was very, like you said, it’s still almost toxic in some places to say the word psychedelic and all.
00:12:56 ►
And I don’t know if I’m being overly cautious, but I would like people to at least think through the fact that anything you put up on the internet is there forever.
00:13:07 ►
And, you know, if you’re young and you’re still looking at, you know, not having much of a choice,
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but getting somehow involved in the corporate market, you know,
00:13:16 ►
you have to be really careful about these things because they can come back and bite you.
00:13:20 ►
So don’t try to just show off and be brave, you know.
00:13:37 ►
Now, you know, I’m pretty well out there as being in favor of psychedelics, but I have figured out what I’m going to do on February 20th because I’m still licensed to practice law in Texas.
00:13:48 ►
I’m not an active participant, but by law, I have to have my picture on the State Bar of Texas website,
00:13:53 ►
and I do, but I think I might be the only one without a coat and tie because I’ve got a picture of myself, a headshot from Burning Man wearing my straw hat and like that, but on the 20th of
00:13:59 ►
February, where everybody has a little blurb about what they’re doing.
00:14:08 ►
I’m going to put my coming out of the psychedelic closet blurb on the Texas State Bar Association website.
00:14:12 ►
I love it.
00:14:12 ►
I love it.
00:14:13 ►
You know, there’s not a whole lot left for me to do.
00:14:17 ►
Very Hancock-esque of you.
00:14:20 ►
What kind of things are you hearing that people do,
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like Twitter and Facebook, stuff like that?
00:14:26 ►
In terms of the stories that are coming out?
00:14:29 ►
Yeah.
00:14:30 ►
So the range is just absolutely phenomenal.
00:14:33 ►
If you don’t mind, I kind of want to take a walk back here and draw on something that you mentioned,
00:14:39 ►
that the risk factors are certainly there.
00:14:43 ►
You know, the word psychedelic is toxic. And one of the,
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one of the things that we’re working on as an organizational leadership team
00:14:52 ►
is we’re developing a couple of different reference guides that help people
00:14:58 ►
a navigate the legal implications of some of the things that they’re saying
00:15:02 ►
as well as how to go about having this
00:15:05 ►
conversation, you know, with friends and family and people who are close to you. You know, I
00:15:11 ►
personally have a pediatric neurologist and a Parkinson’s researcher, you know, as one sibling,
00:15:20 ►
and I have a human rights lawyer as the other one. So you can imagine, you know, we’re sitting
00:15:24 ►
there for a holiday dinner having this conversation and I’m, you know, getting
00:15:28 ►
questions fired at me from all directions. And the key there that I just want to make a point to say
00:15:34 ►
is that nobody can take away the experiences that you’ve had and what those experiences have meant
00:15:41 ►
to you. The science, of course, at this point is trending forward,
00:15:46 ►
but up for debate and the legal implications are certainly there as well.
00:15:52 ►
But at the end of the day, if your experience was one of healing and transformation,
00:15:57 ►
if you went in with an intention, you followed a protocol,
00:16:02 ►
there was safety and harm reduction techniques involved,
00:16:04 ►
and then you were
00:16:05 ►
able to integrate those lessons into your day-to-day life and see an improvement, you know,
00:16:11 ►
upon your activity and your performance, and nobody can take that away from you, and that’s
00:16:16 ►
the way that that conversation needs to be held, and I’m sorry, what was the second part, the other
00:16:20 ►
part of the question? You just pointed something that that people don’t necessarily have to go real public with things because you do know what you know you know exactly
00:16:29 ►
yeah and that can’t be taken away from anybody and and so i was just just pointing out that
00:16:35 ►
once something is up on the net it’s there for good so right are you doing any way to uh you know
00:16:41 ►
count it how are you finding out uh if you’re going to hit 100,000? Yeah, absolutely. So we actually
00:16:47 ►
very quickly developed a pretty full-scale
00:16:51 ►
web design and web development team. Again, all volunteer-based. Everybody’s been
00:16:56 ►
just over the moon about pitching in. I thought I was going to be
00:17:00 ►
donating an hour or two, and now I’m at least past 10 hours
00:17:04 ►
a week at this point
00:17:05 ►
i can’t get enough um but basically we have an algorithm set up that is going to pull hashtags
00:17:12 ►
off of the various social media sites so there’ll be a main counter that’s that’s likely going to
00:17:17 ►
be broadcasted on you know our website www.thankyouplantmedicine.com as well as our facebook
00:17:23 ►
and instagram pages and And, you know,
00:17:25 ►
if you guys haven’t checked that stuff out yet or followed and liked those pages, you know,
00:17:30 ►
please do. There’s a lot of good content community up there. But we’ll have a hashtag that’ll be
00:17:35 ►
counting just the overall sum of stories. And then we’re asking people to hashtag as well,
00:17:41 ►
an individual medicine that, you know, was meaningful to them. So, you know,
00:17:46 ►
in addition to just hashtag thank you plant medicine, you can say, you know, hashtag thank
00:17:51 ►
you ayahuasca, hashtag thank you LSD, you know, thank you ketamine. And then we’re going to be
00:17:58 ►
keeping track of individual hashtags as well and get a feel for, you know, what people are most
00:18:03 ►
comfortable talking about, you know, what people are most comfortable talking about,
00:18:05 ►
you know, what kinds of experiences have been associated with those stories.
00:18:09 ►
And then hopefully we’ll be able to work with some of our other partners who are in
00:18:13 ►
either the media or the research community to then use some of these stories, some of
00:18:18 ►
these experiences to, again, push the agenda forward in one way or another.
00:18:23 ►
Well, as you go forward with this
00:18:25 ►
i would really like to uh stay in touch with you and and others on your team we did a whole series
00:18:32 ►
of maybe uh 30 or 40 podcasts that uh one of our young uh uh fellow salonners lex pelger traveled
00:18:39 ►
around the country uh having a psychedelic story time and he collected uh we probably podcast maybe a
00:18:47 ►
hundred little stories all less than 15 minutes long uh that that from around the country and
00:18:52 ►
they were amazing how uh you know some of them were were trip stories were kind of boring quite
00:18:57 ►
frankly but but some of them were very transformative and and uh uh you know one guy in his 80s that
00:19:04 ►
had tripped with tim larry was talking about he’d never told his kids about it, you know, one guy in his 80s had a trip with Tim Larry was talking about,
00:19:07 ►
he’d never told his kids about it before, you know, stuff like this, you know. So what you’re
00:19:12 ►
doing is exactly what it’s equally important with all the, you know, medicinal research going on.
00:19:21 ►
And, you know, I’ve got a lot of connections with her. My wife was Dr. Groves’ initial research assistant on the psilocybin study. So, you know, I have a lot of connections into that community. But what you’re doing is maybe, in my opinion, actually more important because it gets the story down to the street, not just to people that, you know, are wondering or didn’t know anything about, but to the people
00:19:45 ►
who have done a psychedelic and are afraid to even mention it, or they need to know that they’re not
00:19:51 ►
alone. And that’s what. Absolutely. And absolutely. I spent a great number of years,
00:19:56 ►
not really sure of what the community looked like, you know, what the makeup was or what my
00:20:04 ►
experiences really meant and meant.
00:20:06 ►
And it wasn’t until I was able to find that common ground where I was able to
00:20:11 ►
really catalog, sorry, catalog, you know,
00:20:15 ►
the various things that I had gone through and really put my integration,
00:20:19 ►
you know, up to the highest level. And it’s interesting. Sorry, that’s my dog.
00:20:25 ►
It’s interesting. You know,
00:20:27 ►
anytime I go to one of these panels or one of these events,
00:20:30 ►
everybody gets very excited and they ask the question, what can I do?
00:20:36 ►
And it’s very tricky if you’re not a researcher or a therapist or a
00:20:41 ►
politician, you know, how do you get involved?
00:20:44 ►
And thank you Plant Medicine has been
00:20:46 ►
one of the few answers that have solved that problem. You know, you can go ahead and take
00:20:53 ►
part in the Facebook community, which now has just passed 6,000 people. And, you know, people
00:20:57 ►
are asking questions and you can pitch in and, you know, give some of your opinions or, you know,
00:21:02 ►
if you need a sense of community, you can get the same there as well.
00:21:05 ►
If you need information on any endogenic or psychedelic,
00:21:10 ►
you can go up to our website or one of our partners,
00:21:14 ►
thethirdwave.co, for example.
00:21:16 ►
They do microdosing coaching,
00:21:19 ►
but they have some of the greatest wealth of information on psychedelics. And the point is that it’s just,
00:21:27 ►
it’s so much more effective when we’re able to pool together this entire
00:21:32 ►
community and talk about these things.
00:21:35 ►
And that’s really been the issue over the last few decades.
00:21:38 ►
It’s been an issue of isolation.
00:21:41 ►
Well, you know,
00:21:42 ►
the pooling together the community is really interesting and important
00:21:46 ►
that, as I mentioned, Dr. Charlie Groves, a friend of mine, and last year when they were legalizing
00:21:54 ►
psilocybin in Denver, and that was all on the ballot and all, there was a lot of discussion,
00:22:00 ►
and Charlie was a little concerned that it would be a reversion back to the 60s counterculture and going crazy and it would hurt research again.
00:22:10 ►
But we talked about it here in Elias Salon with a bunch of us one night, a couple nights actually. from some of the old heads who have been around in the 60s, was that’s just not going to happen
00:22:25 ►
again because the younger people, people in your community, your age, well, first of all,
00:22:29 ►
you’ve got the internet, which means you’re in touch with one another. You just don’t meet at
00:22:33 ►
a festival and then maybe a year later meet at a conference or something that you’re in touch.
00:22:38 ►
And so information gets passed around quickly. And I think that the older generation has a lot more confidence
00:22:48 ►
in what’s going on today than we did in what we were doing ourselves, you know.
00:22:52 ►
Absolutely.
00:22:53 ►
It’s all good. It’s all good.
00:22:55 ►
Yeah, I mean, the dissemination of information and, you know, globalization from that aspect
00:23:00 ►
is definitely a huge player in it. And, you know, on top of that, too, we’ve gotten
00:23:05 ►
so much further in terms of neuroscience and neuroimaging to the fact that, you know, now it’s
00:23:10 ►
not just anecdotal support, you know, for some of these various techniques and molecules. Now we can,
00:23:17 ►
we understand, you know, how the brain lights up and reacts to, you know, some of the various
00:23:23 ►
substances.
00:23:29 ►
You know, we now know that they are non-toxic and non-addictive,
00:23:32 ►
and that’s not really something that was, you know, part of our tool belt.
00:23:34 ►
You know, when we’re going into the late 60s,
00:23:37 ►
we really thought that these things could be horrible for you.
00:23:40 ►
We didn’t understand the various dosages. We just didn’t have the science for it.
00:23:42 ►
But now we’re at the point where the science is there. You know,
00:23:47 ►
we, you know, second wave of psychedelics, we kind of had our fun.
00:23:50 ►
We threw our tantrum and we’re, you know,
00:23:53 ►
as we’re moving toward the third wave,
00:23:55 ►
there’s a whole lot more of an understanding and appreciation for intention,
00:24:00 ►
protocol and integration.
00:24:03 ►
As you’re pointing out, it’s a movement away from maybe LSD,
00:24:08 ►
even though microdosing is important, but it’s moving to the plants.
00:24:11 ►
The teaching is coming from the plants, particularly the mushrooms
00:24:15 ►
and ayahuasca and cannabis in particular, I think, for me,
00:24:20 ►
although there are a few I haven’t tried, a few molecules,
00:24:24 ►
but cannabis is still my
00:24:25 ►
my ally across the board faithful yeah and now I’m living someplace where it’s
00:24:32 ►
legal you know I I go to a website as long as I order something before 630 is
00:24:38 ►
delivered the next day you know now you know I I one day about 20 years ago
00:24:43 ►
dreamt of actually try to get a transfer on my job to Amsterdam so I could be closer to the source.
00:24:50 ►
I failed in all my attempts and look where I wound up.
00:24:54 ►
Yeah, exactly.
00:24:55 ►
I love it how people say that, you know, the dispensaries in California look like the Apple Store.
00:25:01 ►
The last time you were in an Apple Store, it’s nicer than the Apple Store.
00:25:04 ►
You sit down, there’s a lounge and a menu. You know, this isn’t, this isn’t, you know, your, your
00:25:09 ►
drug alley corner. This is a high end experience now. And that’s, that’s the precedent we’re hoping
00:25:15 ►
is set for, for psychedelics moving forward, that they can kind of follow the suit that the,
00:25:20 ►
the innovation of the cannabis industry is set for. You know, all these pitfalls have been outlined as well,
00:25:28 ►
and hoping that, you know, as psychedelics move into this bright new future,
00:25:32 ►
we’re able to take advantage of some of the things that the cannabis industry has learned.
00:25:36 ►
Right.
00:25:38 ►
So, you know, everything is moving so rapidly that it’s kind of hard to really grok the fact that there are huge cannabis
00:25:47 ►
companies and farms, you know, when, you know, it wasn’t that long ago, I was sneaking down to,
00:25:54 ►
you know, my son’s house and buying pot from his dealer, you know, so, you know, things have
00:26:01 ►
changed. Let me open it up for a minute here before we get to stories or something,
00:26:05 ►
see if anybody has questions.
00:26:07 ►
Anybody want to raise your hand?
00:26:10 ►
Oh, go ahead, Stanley.
00:26:12 ►
There you go.
00:26:15 ►
How’s it going?
00:26:16 ►
I’m really excited to hear about this.
00:26:20 ►
My psychedelic experience has at most involved in another individual with me.
00:26:25 ►
I’ve never been in a community.
00:26:28 ►
The salon itself is actually the most amount of exposure to any psychedelic community I’ve had.
00:26:34 ►
I’ve been around a lot of just regular folks.
00:26:38 ►
But what I find helps me the most is I talk about my experiences to anyone who has an open ear, or colleagues.
00:26:49 ►
And what I’ve noticed is just by being open and honest, just right up front with people,
00:26:55 ►
you find a lot of people who’ve actually had psychedelic experiences. And I think that’s one
00:26:59 ►
reason why it’s becoming more of a norm, a lot easier to accept is the fact that,
00:27:05 ►
reason why it’s becoming more of a norm a lot easier to accept is the fact that especially with mushrooms it seems like a lot of people have at least took in a small amount of mushrooms in
00:27:12 ►
their life um lsd i know quite a people few people have done that like maybe in the 90s
00:27:20 ►
in early 2000s but more like recently i’m finding the people i come across are like mushrooms or
00:27:28 ►
maybe here and there ayahuasca and uh like for me what i really feel is that yeah there’s a lot of
00:27:35 ►
plants that are illegal out there and it’s hard to come across things but if we know enough about
00:27:40 ►
botany like my ayahuasca experiences have all been pseudo ayahuasca because i just use
00:27:47 ►
combination plants that i have around me to block the amos and to deliver the dmt
00:27:56 ►
so um what with the internet and the research i’m finding that a lot of people are exploring
00:28:03 ►
psychedelics but aren’t necessarily part of a community of psychedelics
00:28:07 ►
I feel there’s probably a lot of internet researchers like where I’ve come across
00:28:11 ►
That’s like if it wasn’t for the internet. I probably
00:28:15 ►
Even though all the psychedelics I’ve ever had just kind of fell in my lap
00:28:19 ►
It’s weird like the universe is like oh you need this here you go yeah it wasn’t really for the internet
00:28:26 ►
i don’t know if i would have been open to those ideas just because like discovering terence mckenna
00:28:33 ►
and all these other individuals throughout history that have been doing this with the internet we can just hear and find and explore so many things
00:28:45 ►
and i think there’s a lot of a closet psychedelic heads a lot of people who absolutely have done it
00:28:53 ►
and not so in 2010 uh we knew the figure was up to 32 million americans who had had a psychedelic
00:29:00 ►
experience in talking to uh some of the executive members over at dance safe they do the drug
00:29:07 ►
testing for various festivals they have speculated that number is at least three times the size now
00:29:15 ►
so we’re talking close to 100 million americans you know who have had a psychedelic experience
00:29:21 ►
there and now the the issue there is that when you get into some of
00:29:28 ►
this self-research you know some people certainly have the capacity to do it but it’s not even so
00:29:34 ►
much the point you know when you’re in a community setting you’re more able to get the love and
00:29:40 ►
support that you need when the trauma arises as we we know, psychedelics are merely just a window to opening up, you know, your traumas.
00:29:49 ►
And what we’re really looking to do is making sure that when that experience occurs,
00:29:56 ►
the trauma is met with a place of love and healing versus a sense of chaos.
00:30:00 ►
Trauma comes up, it’s met with chaos, it can be compounded.
00:30:04 ►
You know, you can ensue PTSD from that experience.
00:30:07 ►
However, if you’re with a therapist, a shaman, a healer, you know, people who are knowledgeable, that trauma comes up and you’re able to be met with love and it can be healed and you can be transformed.
00:30:19 ►
You know, in ayahuasca circle, I’m sure you’ve seen everything from, you know, screaming and yelling and purging and shaking and, you know, all these various things.
00:30:28 ►
And that’s really just the language that ayahuasca speaks.
00:30:31 ►
It’s difficult to watch.
00:30:34 ►
It’s difficult to go through yourself.
00:30:35 ►
But, you know, there’s an understanding in front of you or a voice in your head that’s difficult to process.
00:30:50 ►
You know, your body will manifest a purge or a shake, but that’s okay because as soon as you can face it, then you can be in support with community and it can be healed and you can talk about it.
00:31:01 ►
And then you’re able to move on from there.
00:31:05 ►
be healed and you can talk about it and then you’re able to move on from there so i i would caution i would just caution that you know community is is ideal for these types of experiences
00:31:10 ►
i i would agree with that even though i don’t have experience really with community i’ve been around
00:31:17 ►
and an access access to community is the other issue which again is you know a major point for
00:31:24 ►
thank you plant medicine at least if we can’t be there in person you know due to certain legal Access to community is the other issue, which again is a major point for Thank You Plant Medicine.
00:31:25 ►
At least if we can’t be there in person due to certain legal implications,
00:31:30 ►
we can at least create this community online with certain guidelines and can be there.
00:31:34 ►
It’s important to summarize stuff.
00:31:36 ►
That’s great.
00:31:37 ►
Because my exploration on my own, my first acid trip, I came across a vial.
00:31:48 ►
And there was a tab in there and I don’t know why I did,
00:31:50 ►
but I just opened it and took it.
00:31:57 ►
And an extremely life changing experience where part of it,
00:31:59 ►
I forgot, you know, who I was,
00:32:04 ►
what I was and just kind of absorbed into the ethers.
00:32:06 ►
And I,
00:32:11 ►
I have a strong mind and I feel like fortunate enough to have been able to work my way around to get it back.
00:32:13 ►
But I can clearly feel from those experiences because when I do psychedelics,
00:32:18 ►
I have a kind of pat with the universe.
00:32:21 ►
I say, when you want me to, and you’re ready for me bring it to me and it
00:32:28 ►
it comes when i really need it it just falls into my lap and it’s been healing in that aspect
00:32:35 ►
but i can i can see if we have no like intention if we just take something but not put part of ourself into it it’s kind of like
00:32:47 ►
terence says you have to give something to receive something we have to give a part of ourselves
00:32:52 ►
but if we’re not of that mind frame like i i see how so many people who i feel lucky like i had
00:33:00 ►
enough certain life circumstances i started meditating at a very young age getting
00:33:05 ►
to martial arts getting into meditation those things way way way way before psychedelic
00:33:12 ►
experiences I started cannabis at a young age and then I found salvia divinorum around age of 18
00:33:19 ►
and so I had like this kind of like slow progression into it. And I had other things that like opened my mind to it.
00:33:26 ►
But if I was just like a regular street kid,
00:33:28 ►
if I wasn’t just like growing up in the middle of nowhere,
00:33:32 ►
just interested in weird things.
00:33:34 ►
Stanley, let me interrupt you for a minute and ask you,
00:33:38 ►
while you were starting to experiment with these things,
00:33:41 ►
did you tell your family that you were doing this?
00:33:44 ►
Did you come out to anybody um well when i was young it was the 90s and then early 2000s so smoking
00:33:51 ►
cannabis back then um my mom did catch me and she said if she ever found out again she’d kill me
00:33:58 ►
but i had a couple incidences where i did get caught and I was very fortunate that I mean I got caught by
00:34:06 ►
cops and I got very fortunate that for some reason the conversation just panned
00:34:12 ►
its way out and I didn’t have any issue at all. We were in a community.
00:34:22 ►
Glenn let me ask you you said that you’re, uh,
00:34:26 ►
you have on your website, you have some guidelines about, uh,
00:34:29 ►
how you want to come out to your family or talk to your, uh,
00:34:34 ►
Thanksgiving developing that reference guide now. Yeah. How, uh, what,
00:34:38 ►
what are you thinking about along the lines?
00:34:41 ►
You’re actually going to publish a reference guide along those lines. Yes.
00:34:44 ►
Yes, absolutely. I mean, we want to make sure that everybody who’s taking part in the campaign
00:34:49 ►
is safe in doing so. So there are certainly, you know, from a broad spectrum and a legal standpoint,
00:34:57 ►
we are advising that folks do not talk about a specific place or point in time when this experience occurred.
00:35:09 ►
We want to be a little bit more vague there because there is a statute of limitations
00:35:12 ►
surrounding some of these events, particularly for folks who don’t have citizenship here in the
00:35:21 ►
states. Those statutes are even wider. So that’s extremely important.
00:35:26 ►
And in terms of telling the story again,
00:35:29 ►
we want to focus on the part that is you, you know, you,
00:35:33 ►
if you are not a neuroscientist,
00:35:35 ►
it’s not really so important for you to talk about the 5-HT2A receptors and
00:35:40 ►
neuroplasticity and the default mode network. You know,
00:35:43 ►
we want to hear more, you know, about how it helped you.
00:35:47 ►
Great point.
00:35:47 ►
Great point.
00:35:48 ►
And now, when do you think this guideline is going to be ready?
00:35:52 ►
Is it going to be ready before the 20th?
00:35:54 ►
Oh, absolutely.
00:35:55 ►
It should be ready in the next week or so.
00:35:58 ►
I’m just looking at the calendar now.
00:36:00 ►
So we are five and a half weeks out from the big coming out day in a figure on the 20th.
00:36:08 ►
So one month out from the coming out day, we should have both these reference guides available.
00:36:15 ►
Ideally, we’re going to look to have legal guidelines for various parts of the world, seeing as how, you know, we do have support across so many different countries with, you know,
00:36:26 ►
such varying legal issues.
00:36:30 ►
So that’s going to be the goal, but we’re really focusing, you know,
00:36:33 ►
from a broad spectrum and, you know,
00:36:35 ►
how we’re going to have people tell this story.
00:36:37 ►
Well, I’ll definitely keep the program notes for today,
00:36:41 ►
this podcast about our conversation updated when that comes out.
00:36:45 ►
And it’s really nice that you’re looking at the rest of the world too. You know, we always
00:36:49 ►
focus on the states, but this podcast over the years, we’ve reached well over a hundred countries.
00:36:56 ►
So we have a lot of foreign listeners and I’d like to circle back to the thing that no matter what happens,
00:37:06 ►
and most likely it will have nothing to do with your promotion of the 20th event,
00:37:13 ►
but somebody is going to get in trouble or have problems on their job
00:37:16 ►
or coming out or something.
00:37:17 ►
It’s going to be a free speech issue is what it really is.
00:37:20 ►
And somehow they’ll find your website.
00:37:23 ►
I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be great if you could,
00:37:26 ►
and I would help you promote this,
00:37:28 ►
if somebody maybe in our audience or in your circle of supporters
00:37:33 ►
could somehow have a focal point for referring people to lawyers.
00:37:40 ►
I know that I get those questions a lot.
00:37:43 ►
And I know a number of lawyers I send people to,
00:37:46 ►
I don’t practice law myself, of course, but I think you’re going to get a lot of questions
00:37:52 ►
from people years from now, even, you know, because they’ll find you on searches, no matter
00:37:57 ►
what’s going on. And it would be a great focal point, because there really isn’t any good place
00:38:03 ►
right now. A single focal point.
00:38:06 ►
You know, there’s places like Arrowwood for information, but a place that not just individuals
00:38:12 ►
can go, but lawyers that have no experience with the law.
00:38:18 ►
And like I say, most of this involved in this movement is really free speech.
00:38:21 ►
It has nothing to do with psychedelics when you come down to it.
00:38:31 ►
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you make some good points there and the idea is that if we are able to coach properly then then really those issues will be minimized where we are expecting you know this
00:38:38 ►
coming out to be very safe for anybody who wants to share their story you know we will be uh helping
00:38:44 ►
each individual you You know,
00:38:46 ►
there’s a volunteer leader within each region of the U.S. as well as some of these other countries.
00:38:51 ►
So it’s not going to be, you know, you need to blind write something and throw it out there.
00:38:56 ►
We will help you revise and we’ll help you work through the story. So I do want to make a point
00:39:01 ►
that it is a safe move to come out and tell your story.
00:39:05 ►
Sure, there will be an integration aspect of it in terms of what it will mean in terms of your identity, potentially at work, potentially with family and friends.
00:39:17 ►
And that’s why the coming out day is really more of a launching point moving forward.
00:39:21 ►
So we’re going to have legal recommendations available. We’re going
00:39:26 ►
to have therapeutic and integration specialists that people will be able to contact as well.
00:39:35 ►
We’re going to have safety and harm reduction techniques, as well as likely drug testing kits for purchase through our partners,
00:39:46 ►
soon-to-be partners at DanceSafe.
00:39:48 ►
So we really are using the coming out day as more of a launching point.
00:39:55 ►
It’s not the end of the campaign.
00:39:56 ►
It’s really the beginning.
00:39:57 ►
And all these things that you’re talking about are going to be what comes
00:40:01 ►
in the next 12 months, the next two years, the next five the next five years so thank you plant medicine has a very bright future you know largely because of
00:40:10 ►
the effects that it’s had on all these different people and and something that that people can do
00:40:15 ►
who are not really in a position and i to to you know come out in in you know full support of plant
00:40:21 ►
medicine and i i get uh you know a lot of contact from people who are active duty military,
00:40:27 ►
who are in law enforcement right now.
00:40:29 ►
And, of course, I’ve done a couple of shows with PTSD, treatment of PTSD,
00:40:35 ►
not just with MDMA, which helped me, but taking people down to the jungle now in Ayahuasca.
00:40:43 ►
I’ll have another group on here shortly
00:40:46 ►
about that but a lot of that uh pro cards i’ll think of it yeah it’s it’s two different military
00:40:53 ►
groups and i can’t i can’t recall their name right now but uh i’ll email you and let you know
00:41:00 ►
yeah heroic arts is a partner of ours that’s why i I was asking. Okay, I’ll look it up and email you. But what I’m saying is that a lot of people have to be kind of quiet and can’t really publish their own stories.
00:41:14 ►
But my friend Myron Stolaroff, when he was alive, he had a rule with his own life that he never sat next to a stranger without bringing up psychedelics.
00:41:23 ►
his own life that he never sat next to a stranger without bringing up psychedelics.
00:41:27 ►
You know, he was old and retired. He could do that.
00:41:35 ►
But what I’ve learned is that with so much news about psychedelics coming out of Johns Hopkins and UCLA and places like that. And now with with your movement, when you hit 100000 stories, the people who know, publish their own story can talk to a friend
00:41:46 ►
at work or come to start a conversation.
00:41:50 ►
Yes, it’s a conversation starter.
00:41:52 ►
Can you believe on one day 100,000 people?
00:41:56 ►
I mean, that’s big news, even though you won’t see it in the mainstream, probably.
00:42:00 ►
It’ll be on Twitter.
00:42:01 ►
It’s big news.
00:42:03 ►
And so I want to do everything i can to help you
00:42:06 ►
guys and uh you know we’ve had a lot of stories come out here and uh anything that that you and
00:42:12 ►
your pr people can uh use these podcasts for we we do reach a lot of people over time and a lot of
00:42:19 ►
what we uh do is not uh our some of our people listen to us a month or two after I podcast it.
00:42:26 ►
So we’ll be able to – any long-term projects that you have going, I definitely want to help promote.
00:42:34 ►
So let’s go back and see if anybody else wants to get involved here.
00:42:38 ►
Raise your hand.
00:42:39 ►
Anybody?
00:42:40 ►
I have a question.
00:42:41 ►
Go ahead.
00:42:42 ►
Oh, Matthew, go ahead.
00:42:40 ►
I have a question.
00:42:42 ►
Go ahead.
00:42:43 ►
Oh, Matthew, go ahead.
00:42:49 ►
So you mentioned that you want to promote and expand the use of plant medicines,
00:42:52 ►
make them more socially acceptable and accessible.
00:42:57 ►
Typically among the psychedelic community, that’s just psychedelics.
00:43:03 ►
But do you have any thoughts on non-psychotropic plant medicines?
00:43:08 ►
Yes, and this is actually one of the points of conversation that we’ve had on our mastermind calls. The biggest part of the campaign here
00:43:12 ►
is really expressing gratitude for things that have already happened, for experiences
00:43:16 ►
that have already happened. We have chosen to
00:43:20 ►
focus specifically on
00:43:23 ►
psychoactive plant medicines as well as psychedelic medicines
00:43:27 ►
just because of how the stigma has stunted the growth and some of the research. We don’t have
00:43:37 ►
any sort of ill opinion, you know, or any sort of lack of interest rather in, you know, non-psychoactive
00:43:47 ►
plant medicines, you know, they are important and they do feed into, you know, so a lot of these
00:43:55 ►
different medicines, you know, for instance, psilocybin is currently microdosed with any of
00:44:02 ►
a number of other different mushrooms. You know, ayahuasca can have 50 plus different admixtures, you know, within its brew.
00:44:10 ►
So it’s not that we don’t appreciate and we don’t value the non-psychoactive plant medicines.
00:44:17 ►
We just at some point have to create a narrow scope for us to focus on.
00:44:23 ►
And this is just where we’ve decided to draw the line
00:44:25 ►
i hope you forgive us no yeah perfectly fine just uh curious but no it’s a very good point
00:44:35 ►
and one that’s worth repeating that that not only um not only the psychoactive plant medicines are
00:44:42 ►
important there are many others,
00:44:48 ►
lion’s mane, ashwagandha, you know, so on and so forth,
00:44:56 ►
that have shown great efficacy and great value, and they are worth talking about as well. And if anybody hasn’t seen Paul Stamets’ fantastic Fungi,
00:45:01 ►
that’s definitely a documentary that I recommend watching it’ll change your mind
00:45:07 ►
on you know mushrooms specifically and hopefully that’ll you know branch interest forward but
00:45:11 ►
you know you make a great point matthew yeah matthew i really appreciate you pointing that
00:45:15 ►
out because i had cut i just kind of put that out of my mind you know that i was so focused on on
00:45:21 ►
psychedelics is that uh most of the plant medicines aren’t psychedelic.
00:45:26 ►
You know, almost all of our medicines actually come from plants eventually or ultimately.
00:45:33 ►
So this is a much bigger project than I first even envisioned.
00:45:39 ►
And I hope that I can help you get that out, too out too that’s not just psychedelics and matthew thank
00:45:46 ►
you for pointing that out i i missed that one so it even invokes uh cbd hey hey alex it’s good to
00:45:56 ►
see you again how have you been uh i’m here good i’m not here but i’m here good and you’re you’re saying oh cbd you were saying right right
00:46:06 ►
and just because that’s become the new buzzword you know you have nail polish and you know pillows
00:46:12 ►
cbd and it’s just and we’re starting to see the flim flam and the scammy there’s very little cbd
00:46:19 ►
but they call it cbd anyway but it’s becoming part of a larger discussion of psychoactive,
00:46:26 ►
psychotropic, plant
00:46:28 ►
medicine. With the legalization
00:46:30 ►
happening of cannabis
00:46:32 ►
recreationally, quote-unquote,
00:46:34 ►
medicinally, quote-unquote, it’s all
00:46:36 ►
health-based. If you’re
00:46:38 ►
feeling good, your mind is
00:46:40 ►
less stressed. Less stress means
00:46:41 ►
you don’t have as much cortisol. Your body
00:46:44 ►
is doing better.
00:46:47 ►
Bringing it back around, it seems like there’s more and more opportunity to have discussions that
00:46:55 ►
tie into plant medicines. A lot of stigma with cannabis and cannabis culture. It went from being
00:47:03 ►
the big, big joke to the butt of the joke to okay
00:47:06 ►
it’s funny because everyone does it to it’s now replacing you know mommy’s wine time it’s mommy
00:47:11 ►
needs a joint time and that’s becoming a thing um do you see you know this initial movement trying
00:47:20 ►
to get a hundred thousand people to share their stories, sort of maybe bend diagramming,
00:47:27 ►
intersecting with this sort of more awareness, more acceptance with things that are psychoactive,
00:47:34 ►
marijuana being one. And the conversations do start touching on things like mushrooms and
00:47:40 ►
people using mushrooms or, and it’s not looked at, they said the M word.
00:47:45 ►
It seems like, oh, okay. Psychedelic is not that big a deal.
00:47:49 ►
Comedians joke about their DMT use or talk about the benefit of it.
00:47:53 ►
Mike Tyson, even, you know, talking about the benefit of his DMT use.
00:47:56 ►
See those things dovetailing with, you know, this movement.
00:48:02 ►
Yeah. I mean, it’s just like you’re saying, you know, having,
00:48:05 ►
having the ability to have the conversation is everything. You know, the fact that it’s been so
00:48:11 ►
hush hush has really stunted the research is stunted, not just the pros of using these
00:48:18 ►
medicines, but also the shortcomings, you know, to speak on microdosing for a second, there are some suspicions that
00:48:26 ►
extended use of microdosing can be associated with a heart condition. And that’s, you know,
00:48:33 ►
that’s a piece of information that I want to make sure that the global community is aware of. So
00:48:39 ►
it’s not just that we’re preaching psychedelics and plant medicine as some sort of miracle cure. That’s not
00:48:46 ►
the point. The point is education. The point is the ability to have the conversation. The point
00:48:52 ►
is the ability to make your own choice based on accurate information. That’s what the campaign is
00:48:57 ►
about. And the thank you part is so important because, you know, those of us who have experienced particularly ayahuasca and mushrooms, you know, the thank you is an integral part of who we are now.
00:49:12 ►
But it also shows more of a reverence for this.
00:49:16 ►
You can call it recreational, but I’ll tell you what, I don’t feel like I’m recreating when I do ayahuasca.
00:49:23 ►
Yeah, I’m working.
00:49:24 ►
I’m working in short.
00:49:26 ►
So, you know, the thank you, I think, really also emphasizes the fact that, hey, thanks for the answer.
00:49:34 ►
Thanks for what you’re giving us.
00:49:36 ►
It’s not just the physical healing.
00:49:39 ►
And I know that cannabis provides a lot of pain relief for me.
00:49:42 ►
But among probably the number one thing is it cures my depression.
00:49:47 ►
And that is really important.
00:49:49 ►
I know you’re not supposed to talk about that because it makes you feel good,
00:49:52 ►
but I don’t really care about those things anymore.
00:49:55 ►
The truth is when I’m not depressed, I feel a lot better.
00:49:58 ►
I’m more productive, and cannabis helps.
00:50:00 ►
So that’s just really the simple answer for me.
00:50:03 ►
The fact of the matter is that
00:50:05 ►
all of these different substances are tools. You know, they’re all tools that we deserve to have
00:50:11 ►
in our tool belt and should be able to use properly when the proper need arises. None of
00:50:18 ►
these things, cannabis included, you know, should be overused or should be misled to say that it’s
00:50:23 ►
a cure-all. You know, when we get to understand them better, when they’re out in the public
00:50:28 ►
and we’re able to shine a light on them and talk about them
00:50:30 ►
and not be subject to the adulteration of drugs that happens
00:50:35 ►
when these things are gathered in dark corners with dangerous people,
00:50:39 ►
then we’re able to zero in on using each one of these things in their proper manner,
00:50:46 ►
using them with a protocol, using them with a proper dose.
00:50:50 ►
You know, if you even look back to 2010 and, you know, James Fadiman’s The Psychedelic Experience,
00:50:56 ►
you know, talking about, you know, mothers just smoking joints and bringing that conversation, you know,
00:51:01 ►
out into the public and off the butt of the joke there.
00:51:05 ►
conversation you know out into the public and off the butt of the joke there and in 2010 you know we’re seeing mothers who are um microdosing lsd in order to be more present with their kids during
00:51:12 ►
play time or you know folks microdosing lsd before they go into work to have a more productive
00:51:19 ►
energized and divergent thinking pattern you know as, as opposed to, you know,
00:51:25 ►
what we commonly use now, Adderall, which is just like basically keeping yourself
00:51:29 ►
in this one narrow tunnel with the opposite, with convergent thinking patterns
00:51:34 ►
and focusing basically on busy tasks and road tasks.
00:51:38 ►
So there are all of these applications that we just haven’t been able to talk about.
00:51:43 ►
We haven’t been able to put research
00:51:45 ►
behind and we’re finally getting to that point where now we can actually get the stuff in the
00:51:49 ►
open and figure out what it can and cannot do. And, you know, that’s so important because
00:51:55 ►
essentially this is what we’re doing, not just your project, but all of us for the last decade
00:52:02 ►
or two is a huge experiment that’s not really well funded or guided or anything.
00:52:08 ►
But, you know, if you go to Arrowwood and Earth and Fire Arrowwood are friends of mine.
00:52:12 ►
And for every report up there, there’s probably five or 10 that in the same line that didn’t get posted because they actually check these out.
00:52:21 ►
And these are our substantial stories.
00:52:24 ►
And the reason I say Arrowwood is so important is when people ask me, Oh,
00:52:28 ►
should I try such and such? I said, well,
00:52:29 ►
go to Arrowhead and read all of the horrible,
00:52:32 ►
awful trip reports from that particular substance.
00:52:35 ►
And if you can handle that, well then do it.
00:52:37 ►
Otherwise move on to something else. Anybody can do the good ones.
00:52:41 ►
Don’t read the good trip reports. And, and so, you, you know, we have to have a lot of talk among ourselves.
00:52:48 ►
You know, I’ve learned mainly from people I’ve met and experiences I’ve had and group experience I’ve had and then Arrowhead and these kind of conversations.
00:52:58 ►
And the more thousands of these conversations we have in the in the years ahead,
00:53:05 ►
conversations we have in the years ahead, you know, we’re going to be bumping into researchers and people who are just coming out of college and, oh, give them an idea for a project none of us
00:53:10 ►
have thought of yet. So the more conversation we get going, the better off we’re going to be. And
00:53:16 ►
like we’ve all said, and you in particular, Glenn, this isn’t for everybody. You know,
00:53:20 ►
it’s really a small percentage of people who are ever going to pursue this avenue, but we should all be allowed to talk about it and be encouraged to follow our dream or our bliss or whatever if it’s without being put down on, you know.
00:53:38 ►
Absolutely. And you make a couple good points there as well.
00:53:40 ►
You talk about heroin and reading some of the bad trip reports.
00:53:45 ►
You know, that’s that’s very valuable information that that we need to know and in terms of you know telling
00:53:53 ►
your coming out story it doesn’t need to be sugar-coated it doesn’t need to be unicorns and
00:53:58 ►
lollipops and rainbows because that’s not how the psychedelic experience actually works the
00:54:03 ►
psychedelic experience and part of why it’s not labeled as a recreational experience
00:54:08 ►
is because it’s hard.
00:54:10 ►
It’s very difficult at times.
00:54:11 ►
It’s very taxing.
00:54:13 ►
You’re going to face the things that you’re most afraid of
00:54:16 ►
or that you’re most unwilling to confront.
00:54:19 ►
And that’s hard and that’s difficult.
00:54:22 ►
But the point is that hard and difficult are not necessarily bad or
00:54:27 ►
dangerous when you have a psychedelic experience you’re not just looking at the symptom you’re
00:54:32 ►
digging all the way down to the core of the experience the root of where it hurts the root
00:54:36 ►
of where the pain is and you’re reaching in you’re excavating it you’re pulling it out and then
00:54:41 ►
you’re figuring out what to do with this void that’s now inside you.
00:54:47 ►
And that’s, again, why community is so important.
00:54:53 ►
So that way, at that point, you can fill that hole with things that are good, and you can heal.
00:54:59 ►
I like to compare the psychedelic experience to taking a thimble to a waterfall.
00:55:07 ►
You get all of this information, this entire waterfall, and then you’re only allowed to take home this one small little thimble.
00:55:10 ►
And if you don’t go in with an intention,
00:55:12 ►
you’re not entirely sure what you want to fill this thimble with.
00:55:14 ►
And then as you’re walking away, you know,
00:55:18 ►
the thimble is dripping water and it’s all you can do to integrate that in.
00:55:22 ►
And then it’s just, it’s why protocol and community are so important.
00:55:26 ►
You know, the psychedelic experience can mean so many things.
00:55:32 ►
But if it’s met with the proper care, it really can be, you know, a religious experience,
00:55:36 ►
a spiritual experience, a life-changing transformational experience.
00:55:39 ►
But sometimes it’s not.
00:55:40 ►
Sometimes it sucks.
00:55:42 ►
And we want to hear that story too.
00:55:45 ►
And, you know, sometimes you’ll stumble across that thimble about six or seven months later and there’s another little drop in there
00:55:50 ►
and you oh yes that’s the one i was waiting for so you know like it’s it’s it’s magical stuff
00:55:57 ►
uh we’re we’re getting to to a little end of our time here that does anybody else have any uh
00:56:03 ►
questions or anything uh sean do you have a is that your hand waving yeah go ahead can you hear me yeah gotcha i’m clear how’s
00:56:11 ►
it going sean good man um so kind of on topic uh any suggestions for a guy or a girl or anyone who wants to distribute mushrooms,
00:56:27 ►
but doesn’t want to become the guy running around the field or around his,
00:56:32 ►
his neighborhood with a bag of mushrooms,
00:56:36 ►
just kind of passing them out to people.
00:56:38 ►
You know what, Sean, there’s, there’s,
00:56:40 ►
there’s something that we can’t really talk about here.
00:56:44 ►
No, no. I saw it coming out in a different way. There’s something that we can’t really talk about here. No.
00:56:45 ►
No.
00:56:51 ►
I saw it coming out in a different way, the question.
00:56:53 ►
I’m not asking about distributing.
00:56:54 ►
It’s different. Like, I’ve always wanted to be a healer, and then I had a family,
00:56:59 ►
and I got distracted.
00:57:01 ►
And I’m coming back to it.
00:57:04 ►
and I’m coming back to it.
00:57:15 ►
And I should have been studying how to help people in a more fundamental way where I could come from somewhere.
00:57:17 ►
But I’m a construction worker.
00:57:18 ►
I don’t, you know, nobody’s going to want to listen to me.
00:57:21 ►
Well, that’s, you know, no, that’s really not true.
00:57:24 ►
It’s just the opposite is that you can really relate to a lot of people,
00:57:28 ►
but I would suggest that you more or less apprentice yourself to someone who’s
00:57:33 ►
already kind of in business of healing.
00:57:36 ►
And one place to do it is you go to some of the festivals and some of the
00:57:40 ►
Zendo projects and the, the people that are helping people on trips,
00:57:45 ►
they have a lot of training sessions.
00:57:47 ►
And what I’d suggest is you start getting involved in making a few
00:57:52 ►
connections that way.
00:57:53 ►
I know MAPS has some really good training sessions for people that help in
00:57:56 ►
their Zendo project.
00:57:58 ►
And most festivals have something like that.
00:58:01 ►
That’s where I would start and sort of become an apprentice because
00:58:05 ►
the fact that you’re in construction is a very positive thing because, you know, people
00:58:12 ►
that are, you know, my son works in construction and he’s not really into listening to people
00:58:18 ►
like me that are kind of more into books and stuff.
00:58:21 ►
So I think you could provide a very valuable service and,
00:58:25 ►
and I encourage you to keep following your, your, your instincts there.
00:58:30 ►
Thank you. That’s what I was looking for. I appreciate it.
00:58:33 ►
Glenn, do you have anything you want to add to that?
00:58:36 ►
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I would say the most important piece of healing and,
00:58:44 ►
and caring for others is taking care of yourself.
00:58:48 ►
Making sure your own mental health, your own vibrational frequency is sound before you go ahead and you extend that sentiment, that vibration to somebody else.
00:59:00 ►
So the most important thing that you can do in taking care of others is always taking care of yourself.
00:59:05 ►
So the most important thing that you can do in taking care of others is always taking care of yourself.
00:59:09 ►
I’m also a hospice volunteer, and that’s something that we talk about there, too.
00:59:13 ►
We can’t be there for other people unless we’re there for ourselves.
00:59:18 ►
So I’ll start with you, extend outwards, and I think you have a voice that needs to be heard.
00:59:24 ►
So if you’re interested, I definitely would love to have you come out on the 20th.
00:59:28 ►
Listen, everybody, I appreciate you all being here tonight.
00:59:33 ►
Glenn, I definitely want to follow up on this in the months and years ahead.
00:59:36 ►
I think that we can maybe help each other out a lot.
00:59:38 ►
I can help you specifically.
00:59:41 ►
What you’re doing is exactly what we’re trying to do here. I appreciate you taking the time to be here tonight and the time
00:59:45 ►
that you’re taking for this little volunteer project that you thought you were going to
00:59:50 ►
spin the one plate and not a whole bunch of spinners. You know what? It’s a hard thing to
00:59:57 ►
put down because the people who care about these kinds of things deeply care about them and see
01:00:02 ►
the type of impact they have. So I, I appreciate you having me on the show.
01:00:06 ►
I definitely would love to come back and, you know,
01:00:08 ►
whatever way that we can help each other is, you know, helping the community,
01:00:11 ►
helping spark the conversation. And as you’ve been saying,
01:00:15 ►
that’s all we’re here to do.
01:00:17 ►
Well, we’ll certainly do that. So thank you again. And everybody until next week,
01:00:21 ►
keep the old faith and stay high.
01:00:24 ►
Thank you. Thank you.
01:00:28 ►
Now, before I go, I would like to say just a little bit more about Dr. Germain, who I mentioned
01:00:34 ►
at the beginning of this conversation. And the essay that he gave me at the Hawaii conference
01:00:39 ►
in 1999 is titled Drug Control National Policies. and I posted it on my Matrix Masters website.
01:00:48 ►
Now, in 1957, Dr. Germain set up the Department of Police Science
01:00:53 ►
at California State University in Long Beach,
01:00:56 ►
and by the time I met him, he was already retired
01:00:59 ►
and had been honored as a professor emeritus.
01:01:02 ►
I posted a link to his essay in today’s program notes,
01:01:05 ►
which you can find at psychedelicsalon.com, and I’d like to read just one sentence from this essay.
01:01:11 ►
Quote, if the ears of all the people in the nation who had ingested illicit substances in the past
01:01:18 ►
six months were to turn bright green for one whole week, the nation would be amazed, confused, astounded,
01:01:27 ►
and quickly taught something very important,
01:01:29 ►
as they identified friends, relatives, neighbors, doctors, lawyers, accountants,
01:01:36 ►
priests, nuns, ministers, rabbis, soldiers, policemen, firemen,
01:01:42 ►
military personnel, businessmen, teachers, students, politicians, respected policymakers, administrators, supervisors, and workers from a variety of private and government institutions everywhere.
01:01:58 ►
End quote.
01:01:59 ►
And this is from a man who led one of the foremost criminal justice schools in the country.
01:02:05 ►
He was a man who knew what he was talking about.
01:02:08 ►
And I’m sure that this hashtag thank you plant medicine project is exactly what he had in mind when he wrote his essay.
01:02:15 ►
Even though there was nothing like today’s social media back then.
01:02:18 ►
In fact, there was no World Wide Web even.
01:02:22 ►
So it seems that our technology is finally catching up with some of our better ideas.
01:02:27 ►
And in next Monday’s Live Salon, we’ll be talking about some specific ideas that you may have about how to support this project.
01:02:34 ►
And a little heads up about our Live Salon on February 3rd that’s coming up.
01:02:38 ►
Like always, it will take place at 6.30 p.m. on that Monday evening.
01:02:43 ►
That Monday evening in Europe.
01:02:45 ►
You see, there’s going to be one major change in the announcement for that day’s salon.
01:02:50 ►
The time zone is going to be Greenwich.
01:02:52 ►
That’s London time.
01:02:53 ►
So our fellow salonners in Europe are going to be able to join us,
01:02:57 ►
along with Rob Harper, who happens to live in London,
01:03:00 ►
and we’ll be talking about his new film that’s titled
01:03:03 ►
Journeys to the Edge of
01:03:05 ►
Consciousness. The three primary psychedelic travelers whose journeys are featured in this
01:03:10 ►
movie are Aldous Huxley, Timothy Leary, and Alan Watts. And while I haven’t seen the entire film
01:03:16 ►
yet, the trailer blew me away, and I’m sure that you’re going to like it as well. And if all goes
01:03:22 ►
well, I’ll also be podcasting a recording from that
01:03:25 ►
evening’s conversation. But for now, this is Lorenzo signing off from Cyberdelic Space.
01:03:32 ►
Namaste, my friends. Thank you.