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668 - Nature Loves Courage

Apr 12, 2021, 57 min read

Program Notes

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Date this lecture was recorded: April 5, 2021
Guest speaker:
Jacques Oliver and Matt Pallamary

https://www.amazon.com/Nature-Loves-Courage-Jacques-Olivier/dp/1638487677/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Today’s podcast features a recording from last Monday evening’s Live Salon. Our guests were Jacques Oliver and Matt Pallamary who joined us to talk about Jacques’ recent autobiography, Nature Loves Courage. Since the three of us are long-time friends who have shared quite a few experiences together, the conversation sometimes turned to us telling a few of our old “war stories.”

Two of Jacques’ stories really stand out. As it turned out, Jacques was the last person for whom Terence McKenna ever held a DMT pipe. And then there is the story of how Jacques wound up spending a rainy night all alone in Terence’s house in Hawaii just after he helped pack the library for shipment to the states. The only things that were left in the room where he spent the night was a backpack that had some DMT in it and an urn on the mantle the contained Terence McKenna’s ashes. The story gets quite interesting from there.

Nature Loves Courageby Jacques Oliver

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Transcript

00:00:00 ►

Greetings from Cyberdelic Space.

00:00:20 ►

This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.

00:00:24 ►

And today’s podcast features a recording from last Monday evening’s live salon,

00:00:29 ►

where our guests were Jacques Olivier and Matt Palomary,

00:00:33 ►

both of whom joined us to talk about Jacques’ recent autobiography,

00:00:37 ►

which is titled Nature Loves Courage.

00:00:41 ►

Now, since the three of us are longtime friends who have shared quite a few experiences together,

00:00:46 ►

well, the conversations sometimes turn to us telling a few of our old war stories.

00:00:52 ►

And two of Jacques’ stories really stand out.

00:00:56 ►

As it turned out, Jacques was the last person that Terrence McKenna ever held a DMT pipe for.

00:01:07 ►

ever held a DMT pipe for. And then there’s a story about how Jacques wound up spending a rainy night all alone in Terrence’s house in Hawaii just after he helped pack the library

00:01:12 ►

for shipment to the States. And the only things that were left in the room where he spent the

00:01:17 ►

night was his backpack that fortunately had a little DMT in it, and an urn on the mantle that contained Terrence McKenna’s ashes.

00:01:27 ►

Well, the story gets quite interesting from there.

00:01:31 ►

So now let’s join the live salon and hear a few of those stories about Terrence McKenna.

00:01:37 ►

Thank you.

00:01:37 ►

Hey, Jacques, I saw you in Bruce’s live salon where Dennis was there,

00:01:44 ►

and we were having a Terrence tribute

00:01:46 ►

in fact I’m going to podcast

00:01:48 ►

this talk we’re having

00:01:50 ►

here tonight first and then after that

00:01:52 ►

I’m going to repodcast Bruce’s

00:01:53 ►

tribute to Terrence

00:01:55 ►

tremendous

00:01:56 ►

I don’t know if you all were aware of that but Saturday

00:01:59 ►

was the 21st anniversary of

00:02:02 ►

Terrence’s death

00:02:03 ►

so there were a lot of events.

00:02:06 ►

And Bruce did a live salon with his levity zone.

00:02:08 ►

And a bunch of us were there.

00:02:10 ►

And Jacques was there, too.

00:02:13 ►

Yeah.

00:02:13 ►

Yeah.

00:02:14 ►

I was there.

00:02:16 ►

Mateo was up there on Orcas Island visiting me for the last month.

00:02:22 ►

And he took the scraps and ideas that I had for a book that I

00:02:29 ►

started writing on Orcas Island when I got here in 2018 and he put it together and created it,

00:02:38 ►

you know, we both created the book and it’s done. So I had my near-death experience of my heart attack playing at Imagine.

00:02:47 ►

And I was like, people were like,

00:02:48 ►

well, there must be a reason.

00:02:49 ►

It wasn’t your time to go.

00:02:50 ►

And it’s like, well, I guess not

00:02:52 ►

because I’m not finished with my book.

00:02:54 ►

So now my book is done.

00:02:57 ►

And there it is.

00:02:58 ►

Nature loves courage.

00:03:00 ►

It’s about my life.

00:03:01 ►

That’s a quote of Terrence.

00:03:01 ►

That’s one of Terrence’s quotes, isn’t it?

00:03:04 ►

It’s actually a quote from Plato. and Terrence used it a lot.

00:03:09 ►

Yeah, it’s a Platonic thing.

00:03:12 ►

Yeah, let’s just rewind a bit because so much has happened.

00:03:18 ►

And, of course, Charles has been up to Orchis, too.

00:03:20 ►

He was there for the Convergence Festival just before the festival that you almost tapped out at.

00:03:27 ►

But let’s rewind a bit and kind of bring everybody up to speed.

00:03:32 ►

First of all, I want everybody to know that of all the thousand hours plus of podcasting from the Psychedelic Salon,

00:03:41 ►

the only voice besides mine that has been in every single podcast is Jacques.

00:03:48 ►

Jacques’ group, Chateau Hallyuik, provided the music.

00:03:52 ►

Jacques wrote and sang El Alien, which is our theme song.

00:03:58 ►

And you can play that to literally millions of people,

00:04:02 ►

and they will recognize it right away.

00:04:05 ►

Oh, man.

00:04:06 ►

That’s so amazing.

00:04:08 ►

Thank you so much for that.

00:04:09 ►

Oh, no, hey, thank you.

00:04:11 ►

And Jacques has given it to me free.

00:04:15 ►

All I’ve really done is I’ve provided a URL for him, his band.

00:04:19 ►

But his band also played, and Mattel, I’m pretty sure you were there

00:04:23 ►

at the Wave at Ken’s place for Terrence McKenna.

00:04:27 ►

Oh, yeah.

00:04:28 ►

Two CT7s.

00:04:30 ►

Yeah, and see, it was a combination of an Irish wake and a rave.

00:04:36 ►

And so they called it a wave, and the live performance there was Chateau Hyuk,

00:04:41 ►

and that’s where I got to hear Jacques play live for the first time.

00:04:46 ►

So I don’t know, I’ll tell you what, since Matteo and Jacques have spent a month together putting

00:04:51 ►

this book together, I’m going to kind of turn it over to them, and I would suggest that at any

00:04:58 ►

point that you have questions about what they’re saying and all, we jump in with questions, because

00:05:03 ►

this is just sort of an informal gathering and all, But I have a few stories I want to get to eventually, but I’ll let you guys kind

00:05:11 ►

of tell us how you put the book together and how you find all these scraps, Mateo, and what do you

00:05:18 ►

do after that? Well, so I’ll start out and anybody please jump in. Some of you guys know I’ve been teaching writing for 36 years. And actually, Lorenzo’s wonderful spirit of the internet. I did an edit on that way back. And we got you, what was it, the first independent e-book award, didn’t you, Lorenzo? Yeah, yeah, at the book festival at University of Virginia. Yeah, yeah, so I’ve been teaching for, like I say,

00:05:54 ►

about 36 years. Actually, take that back. I’m teaching over 30. I’ve been writing close to 40,

00:06:00 ►

and what I tell my students is puke on the page, so I told Paloka, I said, look, I’m coming up

00:06:07 ►

and I’m not screwing around.

00:06:10 ►

So get ready for a size nine and a half up your ass

00:06:13 ►

and you know, rock bands have their requirements

00:06:16 ►

like, you know, no red M&Ms and shit.

00:06:20 ►

So I said to him, you have to fly me up there.

00:06:23 ►

You have to feed me.

00:06:24 ►

You have to supply me with cannabis, coffee, half and half, and cinnamon.

00:06:29 ►

And we’re going to tear it up.

00:06:32 ►

And I went up, and he kept his word.

00:06:36 ►

And so I took his first draft.

00:06:39 ►

I can’t remember.

00:06:41 ►

I might have spent three or four days doing a serious red line edit.

00:06:44 ►

And then I handed it back to him and I said, you go boy.

00:06:47 ►

And to his credit, he went for it.

00:06:49 ►

And then we printed it out again.

00:06:51 ►

And I did the same thing again, took about half as long.

00:06:55 ►

But he was a real trooper and he was having some health issues and he showed

00:06:58 ►

up and he really took care of business.

00:07:00 ►

Now I probably helped people publish two,

00:07:04 ►

three dozen books. I’ve lost track at this point

00:07:06 ►

and he’s don’t let this go to your head there homie but he’s like the best person I ever worked

00:07:13 ►

with I said this is what you should do he said okay and he did it very easy let me let me just

00:07:19 ►

jump in here yeah I’ve got I think eight books or so published now. But before that, I was a tech writer.

00:07:26 ►

I wrote tech pubs for both IBM and Verizon.

00:07:30 ►

And I wrote dozens and dozens of them.

00:07:32 ►

The worst thing about being a writer, a professional writer, is dealing with an editor.

00:07:38 ►

And especially an editor that wants no red M&Ms.

00:07:42 ►

I’ll tell you what, my hat’s off to you, Jacques.

00:07:45 ►

Dealing with Mateo is not easy.

00:07:48 ►

Well, you know, I found him to be very helpful.

00:07:52 ►

I mean, everything he suggested was right on.

00:07:55 ►

It just made it much easier to read.

00:07:58 ►

It’s a fast, entertaining read.

00:08:01 ►

He told me there’s some sadness, there’s some loss, because it’s basically a memoir of most of my life.

00:08:10 ►

So like all of us, I’ve experienced some extreme loss.

00:08:14 ►

And I realized, I kind of put it together that I was leading up to a heart attack because my was from dying from a broken heart from losing three

00:08:27 ►

really close people in the space of five years. I was just like, wow. So Matteo told me when you

00:08:33 ►

read it, you know, some people might get stuck in there, but it’s got the great, greatest happy

00:08:38 ►

ending, the best happy ending of any Hollywood story, because it leads up to me doing exactly what I love to do on Orcas Island,

00:08:47 ►

which is a magical place, and dying at the end of a musical set that was well-received,

00:08:56 ►

literally, you know, no heartbeat, no pulse for 10, 15 minutes,

00:09:02 ►

and being saved by the people in my, in my, in my audience in the near

00:09:06 ►

vicinity. Everybody just took action and the community worked together and they all prayed

00:09:11 ►

for me. And here I am, you know, it’s, it’s miraculous. So I live with, I live, I’m in this

00:09:20 ►

extended period of like extended life kind of thing like after Terrence had his grand mal

00:09:27 ►

it was a period of a year where he was like feeling you know he was really coming into his

00:09:32 ►

heart and it was just all about love and you know he was not even concerned about anything else

00:09:38 ►

and uh I think that happens with near-death experiences. They’re spiritual experiences, just like psychedelics are spiritual experiences.

00:09:49 ►

And in the book, I weave all this together because I’ve got many experiences that I shared with Mateo,

00:09:57 ►

sitting with five MEO people, which is probably the closest you get to the post-life state or the pre-born state or death state, you know, in my experience.

00:10:09 ►

Let me jump in a minute here to give a little bit more background that people, you know, that first of all,

00:10:17 ►

this is sort of your reincarnation right now because you actually did die.

00:10:21 ►

because you actually did die.

00:10:27 ►

But of your life before this reincarnation,

00:10:29 ►

there’s a few people here who are old enough who remember the old Reader’s Digest

00:10:31 ►

had a section called

00:10:32 ►

My Most Unforgettable Character.

00:10:35 ►

And of my three most unforgettable characters, Jacques,

00:10:39 ►

you are certainly one.

00:10:41 ►

Oh, man.

00:10:42 ►

Some of the story,

00:10:44 ►

you know, I’ve had some experiences with Jacques as well, but some

00:10:48 ►

of the stories about him that I’ve heard from people who were there are pretty awesome.

00:10:54 ►

So it’s not like just another guy who smoked a little dope and wrote a book.

00:11:00 ►

Jacques has lived on the edge ever since I’ve known him, for sure.

00:11:04 ►

So with that little preface,

00:11:06 ►

I didn’t mean to jump in, but

00:11:07 ►

you might want to add to that, Mateo.

00:11:10 ►

Yeah, Mateo,

00:11:11 ►

take it away. Yeah, so you’re

00:11:13 ►

the boss. So,

00:11:15 ►

interestingly, with all the tragedy that

00:11:17 ►

Palocas had in his

00:11:19 ►

life, I was having similar tragedies

00:11:22 ►

like so much in sync.

00:11:24 ►

And

00:11:24 ►

we both had some really dark, dark, dark moments together.

00:11:31 ►

You know, being homeless and death everywhere and all that kind of stuff.

00:11:35 ►

And when I asked him, because I always wondered, I said,

00:11:39 ►

is 5-MeO really a dress rehearsal for death?

00:11:42 ►

And he said, yes.

00:11:43 ►

And I said, yeah, I knew it.

00:11:44 ►

I knew it the whole time.

00:11:45 ►

So that was a really great validation.

00:11:48 ►

And as fate would have it,

00:11:49 ►

he is in the middle of my memoir,

00:11:51 ►

Spirit Matters.

00:11:52 ►

And then he put me in the opening of his,

00:11:55 ►

all about the same experience.

00:11:57 ►

And we’ve told it from our two different perspectives,

00:11:59 ►

which is filled in the blank.

00:12:02 ►

So we’ve had a really interesting,

00:12:04 ►

close and very bizarre connection.

00:12:07 ►

I’m going to let you pick this up in just a second.

00:12:09 ►

But I’ll add that in my novel,

00:12:12 ►

the Genesis Generation,

00:12:14 ►

Paloka also has a cameo there

00:12:16 ►

where he’s playing guitar

00:12:17 ►

at the Magic Funk Palace in San Francisco.

00:12:20 ►

So he is in your memoir and my novel.

00:12:25 ►

So we’ve got him, we’ve got him memorialized there.

00:12:28 ►

Yeah. He’s like a cockroach. He’s not going to go away.

00:12:30 ►

He already tried to croak once and didn’t make it.

00:12:33 ►

So the other little piece and I’m going to let him pick up on this,

00:12:36 ►

but I was writing this while he was going through his experience.

00:12:42 ►

I hope you guys can see that or not. And I didn’t tell him.

00:12:46 ►

And then right about when he died is when I was finishing up the draft.

00:12:50 ►

And then I released the book, and I released the book just literally like a month before COVID became well known.

00:12:56 ►

And so we had that really weird, weird synchronicity that we followed up on.

00:13:00 ►

I want to mention the name of your book because I’m going to put this in the podcast And they can’t see your shirt

00:13:06 ►

Oh okay yeah thanks dad

00:13:07 ►

So it’s death a love story

00:13:10 ►

And in a really brief nutshell

00:13:13 ►

It’s first person voice of death

00:13:15 ►

And death says hey I’m here for you

00:13:17 ►

Oh not in that way not right now

00:13:19 ►

At least they don’t think so

00:13:19 ►

But I’m here for you and my love for you is all consuming

00:13:22 ►

And unconditional

00:13:23 ►

And you and I have a date, whether you like it or not.

00:13:26 ►

And then it goes on from there and a lot of that.

00:13:30 ►

Paloka’s read it, but those synchronicities.

00:13:32 ►

So, Paloka, why don’t you pick it up from there, bro?

00:13:33 ►

Well, you know, the interesting thing is that death is an ominous thing,

00:13:42 ►

but I read a quote by Terrence McKenna recently on a meme,

00:13:48 ►

and it said, quote by Terrence, said, death has no sting, has no sting.

00:13:55 ►

So it’s really just the people that are left behind that are mourning and sad.

00:14:00 ►

When you go, you’re free.

00:14:04 ►

You’re just, you know, you’re not constrained to a body. You’re not constrained

00:14:08 ►

to anything.

00:14:11 ►

That’s the perspective that I’m living with all the time now.

00:14:19 ►

Your book

00:14:21 ►

coming out,

00:14:24 ►

it’s really fun to read, and it’s informative, and it’s really lighthearted.

00:14:36 ►

It takes away the – it’s not something that you want to avoid.

00:14:42 ►

Death is not something to avoid.

00:14:43 ►

It’s something to prepare for and celebrate.

00:14:46 ►

Yeah.

00:14:47 ►

Speaking of death having no sting,

00:14:49 ►

you want to tell a story, Lorenzo?

00:14:51 ►

Well, I was going to ask a story

00:14:53 ►

because in this live salon here,

00:14:56 ►

I’ve probably mentioned this a dozen times.

00:14:59 ►

We’ve been doing this since 2018,

00:15:01 ►

long before the pandemic.

00:15:03 ►

And I’ve mentioned, Jacques, several times the story that you told me about the night

00:15:10 ►

that you cleared out Terrence’s library, you got it all packed, and it was raining.

00:15:14 ►

They were supposed to come back and pick you up, and they didn’t show up, and you had an

00:15:20 ►

unusual night.

00:15:21 ►

I don’t know if you want to tell that story, but I love it.

00:15:24 ►

Yes, it does.

00:15:26 ►

That one’s actually in my book.

00:15:29 ►

And let me see if I can find it.

00:15:33 ►

There we go.

00:15:35 ►

Interstellar Tour Guide.

00:15:37 ►

I have a photo here of S. Terrence

00:15:42 ►

in the urn in his library.

00:15:46 ►

And yeah. of S. Terrence in the urn, in his library. And

00:15:46 ►

yeah.

00:15:49 ►

What happened was

00:15:50 ►

I’m not going to read this.

00:15:54 ►

Should I read it?

00:15:56 ►

I guess I can read it.

00:16:00 ►

Let’s do a little reading.

00:16:01 ►

This would be great to have the author

00:16:02 ►

do a short reading.

00:16:03 ►

You don’t have to read the whole thing. You can stop and embellish when you get to a stopping point. But it would be great to have a little reading. This would be great to have the author do a short reading. Yeah, you don’t have to read the whole thing.

00:16:05 ►

You can stop and embellish when you get to a stopping point.

00:16:07 ►

But it would be great to have a little reading.

00:16:09 ►

Okay.

00:16:11 ►

Interstellar Tour Guide.

00:16:13 ►

Sitting and providing medicine became my work for the next two years,

00:16:17 ►

for the next few years from 1999 to 2006 after Terrence’s departure.

00:16:23 ►

I also became a mushroom chauffeur traveling the west coast in my

00:16:27 ►

RV. In addition to playing and recording music, I provided and guided psychedelic experiences to

00:16:34 ►

people when requested, which is how I started off the 21st century. Terrence ascended the spirit on

00:16:41 ►

April 3rd, 2000, leaving a huge void in the world of psychedelia.

00:16:45 ►

In May of 2000, I returned to the Big Island to help pack the personal books of Terrence’s library in boxes with his brother Dennis.

00:16:54 ►

After sorting out the books that Dennis wanted, the remainder were sent to Esalen and Big Sur following Terrence’s wishes.

00:17:02 ►

Unfortunately, those books were lost in a fire where they were stored above a restaurant

00:17:06 ►

in Monterey, California.

00:17:08 ►

When we finished boxing the last of the books,

00:17:10 ►

Dennis left me alone with Terrence’s ashes on a bookshelf

00:17:14 ►

amid a small altar that consisted of an urn

00:17:17 ►

surrounded by a few items,

00:17:19 ►

one of which was a small green rubber frog.

00:17:22 ►

I saw this as a sign because my Hawaiian spirit name is Paloka

00:17:26 ►

Lele, or flying frog. I carried the 5-MeO frog medicine that day and decided it would be

00:17:32 ►

appropriate to have a smoke, final smoke with Terrence in the realm of the infinite. After

00:17:38 ►

placing a Nature Loves Courage CD on the altar underneath his ashes, I prepared a one-hitter of cannabis and 5-MeO-DMT.

00:17:47 ►

It started to rain, and as the torrent grew stronger, I lifted the bowl and inhaled deeply,

00:17:54 ►

slipping into the forever that is 5-MeO-DMT. A thunderous bolt of lightning struck,

00:18:00 ►

intensifying the experience of the launch into hyperdimensional travel.

00:18:07 ►

And I was in the ethers with Terrence in the afterlife.

00:18:12 ►

We were both at peace in the light of pure loving awareness beyond the tribulations of earthly three-dimensional existence

00:18:16 ►

where we enjoyed each other’s presence beyond words by simply feeling.

00:18:22 ►

It felt that he telepathically understood my gratitude

00:18:26 ►

for all he had brought to my life

00:18:27 ►

and all the inspiration and loving support

00:18:30 ►

that he exuded while on Earth.

00:18:32 ►

My role is to give people permission

00:18:35 ►

to explore on a deeper level

00:18:36 ►

was his conclusion about his own life’s path.

00:18:40 ►

It truly gave me permission to explore

00:18:42 ►

the depths of my consciousness

00:18:43 ►

for which I’m eternally grateful.

00:18:46 ►

A torn of rain on the roof symbolized the tears of sadness felt for the loss of his body, and it subsided as I reentered my body.

00:18:54 ►

He reassured me that death was nothing to fear, and make the most of my time here by loving without fear, condition, or restriction.

00:19:02 ►

without fear, condition, or restriction.

00:19:06 ►

After carefully placing a necklace I’d been wearing with my Mayan birthstone around the copper box holding Terrence’s ashes,

00:19:09 ►

I returned to the mainland the following week to begin a new life

00:19:13 ►

as a portal opener and medicine carrier with 5-MEO for the next six years.

00:19:21 ►

Bravo!

00:19:23 ►

Oh, I can read!

00:19:21 ►

Bravo Oh I can read

00:19:24 ►

Well

00:19:26 ►

Not only can you read

00:19:28 ►

You can write

00:19:28 ►

But you also can experience

00:19:30 ►

I mean

00:19:30 ►

What an awesome experience

00:19:32 ►

To spend the night alone

00:19:34 ►

In Terrence’s final home

00:19:36 ►

With his actress

00:19:37 ►

I mean that

00:19:37 ►

That is a final farewell

00:19:39 ►

If there ever was one

00:19:40 ►

That was 1999

00:19:42 ►

I ended up living

00:19:44 ►

In that same house from 2007 to 2012.

00:19:52 ►

That was actually in 2000, not 1999.

00:19:55 ►

Yeah, he died in 2000, a month after he died.

00:19:59 ►

And then you lived there for how long?

00:20:03 ►

Well, on and off from 1999 all the way to 2012,

00:20:08 ►

but really full on from 2008 to 2012.

00:20:12 ►

Because I was living in the same house, in that same library

00:20:17 ►

where all this experience happened.

00:20:21 ►

And I did a recording as well.

00:20:35 ►

This is going to sound crazy, but the woman that I was, my fiancee that I lived with at Terrence’s house, her birthday was 4-4, so yesterday.

00:20:40 ►

One day after Terrence’s departure day. day and she recorded i recorded her her voice in the light in that same library in 2010

00:20:48 ►

two months before she passed away so it’s on it’s on my song called source and we both co-wrote it

00:20:57 ►

and it just came to us we were living in that house for a few years. It was her final birthday. She knew she was sick. She had

00:21:05 ►

Hep C and liver

00:21:07 ►

cancer. It was like

00:21:09 ►

just a very harrowing time.

00:21:13 ►

And so

00:21:13 ►

yeah, that’s my favorite

00:21:15 ►

song that I think I’ve ever recorded.

00:21:18 ►

And be sure to send me links

00:21:19 ►

to all the places

00:21:21 ►

people can find your music and get a hold of you

00:21:24 ►

so I can put it with the program notes for this podcast.

00:21:26 ►

Okay.

00:21:27 ►

I emailed it to you.

00:21:30 ►

Yeah, it’s in your email.

00:21:31 ►

But Mateo emailed them to you.

00:21:35 ►

I forwarded it to him.

00:21:37 ►

Yeah, if you need them again, let me know.

00:21:38 ►

But I did send them to you.

00:21:38 ►

No, I never do email like when I get it,

00:21:42 ►

so I know I have some things waiting for me.

00:21:46 ►

I will blame you, bro. I never do email like when I get it. So I have some things waiting for me. Listen to to to change the tempo a little bit.

00:21:51 ►

I remember a time that you came down here and you were selling cannabis calendars after you’d been working up in the triangle.

00:22:00 ►

Do you want to talk about that at all?

00:22:03 ►

Yeah, that was 2007.

00:22:07 ►

the triangle do you want to talk about that at all yeah that was 2007 um uh that was a period of after i’d been sitting with 5meo and doing really intense psychedelic work for six seven years

00:22:13 ►

i i just said i i’m done i have to stop i i need to uh get in touch with the earth. And I got a job on a cannabis farm up in Mendocino.

00:22:26 ►

And and that’s all there was was cannabis.

00:22:28 ►

And my publishing background with.

00:22:37 ►

Well, I worked at DLA Weekly for 16 years, so I have some writing experience and publishing experience.

00:22:42 ►

16 years. So I have some writing experience

00:22:43 ►

and publishing experience.

00:22:45 ►

I think working with Mateo really

00:22:48 ►

brought all that experience back

00:22:50 ►

through and that’s why it was easy to work with

00:22:52 ►

because we kind of both knew

00:22:53 ►

what had to be done.

00:22:56 ►

We were just really focused.

00:22:58 ►

But yeah,

00:23:00 ►

I published a calendar.

00:23:02 ►

I had a

00:23:03 ►

midlife crisis. I was a, it was just my midlife crisis.

00:23:06 ►

I was 52 and she was 25.

00:23:10 ►

And we just vibed on our artistic level.

00:23:13 ►

So we were both on the same farm and we did a calendar.

00:23:17 ►

And she looks a lot like Betty Page, the 50s.

00:23:21 ►

Her facial features resemble Betty Page a lot.

00:23:25 ►

So we created this character called Dready Page.

00:23:29 ►

So we put her hair in dreads, and she was Dready Page.

00:23:33 ►

And interestingly enough, it was for 2008, and that’s the year the real Betty Page passed away.

00:23:39 ►

You have one close by you can show us that’s not X-rated?

00:23:43 ►

I do.

00:23:45 ►

I have one in my storage. I actually still

00:23:48 ►

have that, Jacques.

00:23:50 ►

For you old-timers here,

00:23:52 ►

she does

00:23:54 ►

have an amazing resemblance to Betty

00:23:56 ►

Page, if you’ve ever seen her. There she is.

00:23:58 ►

He’s got it.

00:24:02 ►

Yeah.

00:24:03 ►

She’s a real Betty Page in cannabis calendar, I’ll tell you. It’s a real Betty Page and Cannabis calendar

00:24:07 ►

I’ll tell you it’s a beautiful calendar

00:24:09 ►

so I was hoping

00:24:11 ►

he’d update it every year but you know

00:24:13 ►

so

00:24:13 ►

it would be my pleasure

00:24:15 ►

use my old calendar so

00:24:18 ►

Mateo maybe you can

00:24:20 ►

pick out a few stories from the book that you

00:24:23 ►

think might be

00:24:24 ►

enlightening,

00:24:26 ►

a little bit of giving a different look at different facets of Jacques’ life.

00:24:32 ►

Yeah.

00:24:33 ►

Hey, Poloka.

00:24:34 ►

Wait, here’s another.

00:24:36 ►

There’s a very PG picture from there.

00:24:41 ►

Yeah.

00:24:42 ►

These are really well done.

00:24:45 ►

I mean, it’s a high-quality picture.

00:24:46 ►

It’s a good calendar.

00:24:47 ►

So if you see one on the newsstand, be sure to pick it up.

00:24:52 ►

Yeah.

00:24:52 ►

Hey, Paloka, why don’t you tell us about your little beach adventure with the 5MEO DIPT to Foxy, right?

00:24:59 ►

Oh, man.

00:25:02 ►

Yeah.

00:25:04 ►

This was like 2002, so right after 9-11 and airports were a hassle.

00:25:10 ►

And, you know, I had to reach new levels of sophistication with smuggling neurotransmitters.

00:25:20 ►

And 5-MeO-DiPT is 5-methoxy-diisopropyl tryptamine.

00:25:25 ►

And it is a sensory enhancer.

00:25:28 ►

It’s related to psilocybin, but it doesn’t – there’s none of the psychological stuff that happens with psilocybin.

00:25:35 ►

It’s a – and the active dose is like 12 to 20 milligrams.

00:25:42 ►

The active dose is like 12 to 20 milligrams.

00:25:50 ►

So I was traveling to Kauai, and I wanted to bring the DIPT with me,

00:25:55 ►

so I put it in a gel cap and hid it in a bottle of vitamins.

00:25:59 ►

Well, when I get to Kauai, one day I went to take my vitamins,

00:26:01 ►

and I didn’t check it. I didn’t make the mark.

00:26:03 ►

You know, the mark had worn off, and I accidentally took check it. I didn’t make the mark. You know, the mark had worn off.

00:26:15 ►

And I accidentally took 350 milligrams of 5-MeO-D-I-P-T, foxy methoxy.

00:26:17 ►

And it was like living.

00:26:20 ►

It was like being a rubber glove and being turned inside out.

00:26:22 ►

That’s exactly. I went into a coma for about probably 12 hours.

00:26:27 ►

And luckily I survived that.

00:26:29 ►

It took me a few weeks to come back and know my own name.

00:26:33 ►

And Sasha Shogun was really ecstatic to hear that because it means that the LDL,

00:26:39 ►

which means the level that it takes to kill somebody, is known.

00:26:44 ►

It was a high

00:26:46 ►

level you know it was over 350 yeah yeah i lived i survived and so he wanted me to write it up and

00:26:53 ►

he was going to publish it in a book that he was planning on um publishing about people’s trips

00:26:59 ►

you know when when that first first came, our little group was testing it and experimenting with it and handing it around and all.

00:27:08 ►

We had a contest to vote for the name, and Foxy Methoxy won.

00:27:14 ►

I had a much better name, but I can’t remember what it was now.

00:27:18 ►

So I guess it wasn’t that great after all.

00:27:23 ►

You know, you talk about learning ways to smuggle chemicals

00:27:27 ►

uh when we were going to palenque it’s either 2000 or 2001 and we’re going with a tail through lax

00:27:35 ►

and and we’d all gone through security it was it was john prince and mary c and i and a bunch of

00:27:42 ►

people and you know we were already pretty well stoned.

00:27:45 ►

But Mateo’s the last to go through.

00:27:48 ►

And they’re going through his stuff because he looks like a, you know,

00:27:51 ►

he looks like a drug dealer, quite frankly, when he’s going through.

00:27:54 ►

He’s gone his way to Palenque.

00:27:56 ►

He wanted to fit in, you know.

00:27:57 ►

And so all of a sudden they empty his camera case,

00:28:01 ►

and he’s got like 20 little film cases.

00:28:04 ►

You remember film cases so and they were

00:28:07 ►

filled with 5meo and the people are looking at it and everything and of course we’re standing just

00:28:14 ►

back on the other side of the little fence there and we’re we’re all freaking out Mateo’s just

00:28:19 ►

really cool you know and they you know talking among themselves and all and so they go away to get a supervisor

00:28:26 ►

Mateo just picks it all up walks away and that was it yeah you gotta be bold yeah it was interesting

00:28:35 ►

because I had it in a little violin I had this little coke spoon that was that laid out the

00:28:40 ►

perfect dose so they saw the white powder in the little Coke spoon. They said, what’s this?

00:28:45 ►

And I said, it’s incense.

00:28:46 ►

And they’re looking at me.

00:28:48 ►

Oh, I better go get my supervisor.

00:28:50 ►

So like Lorenzo said, as soon as they turn around, I said, fuck this.

00:28:53 ►

I’m out of here, man.

00:28:55 ►

Nice.

00:28:56 ►

That was a moment.

00:28:57 ►

That was a moment.

00:28:59 ►

All right.

00:28:59 ►

And that began our trip to Palenque that year.

00:29:02 ►

Yeah.

00:29:03 ►

Yeah.

00:29:04 ►

So getting back to Jacques and his book, I didn’t mean to cite.

00:29:08 ►

No, hey, stories.

00:29:11 ►

Yeah, man.

00:29:12 ►

So, Palenque, you want to talk about our adventure at Palenque there

00:29:16 ►

where you and I had those shroomies and you went off on your little thing?

00:29:20 ►

That’s another fun thing for you.

00:29:23 ►

Oh, boy.

00:29:26 ►

You don’t have to if I’m embarrassing you it’s okay

00:29:26 ►

the moral of this podcast

00:29:29 ►

is you can really do stupid things with drugs

00:29:32 ►

and still survive

00:29:33 ►

psychedelic drugs won’t kill you

00:29:35 ►

they’ll keep you

00:29:38 ►

sane actually

00:29:39 ►

and prepare you for the end

00:29:41 ►

but

00:29:43 ►

yeah in Palake,

00:29:48 ►

Mateo and I ran across a shaman who boiled the mushroom tea

00:29:55 ►

of the local psilocybin cubansis mushrooms by the Mayan ruins.

00:30:00 ►

And in the second week of when Terrence was leading the group through the Mayan ruins,

00:30:10 ►

Mateo and I drank, I don’t even know, I have no idea what the dose is.

00:30:15 ►

By far the most intense, potent dose of mushrooms I’d ever taken.

00:30:21 ►

And I just remember sitting in a tree tree and it was a little girl who

00:30:27 ►

came up trying to sell us things and all of a sudden everything just fell away it was it was

00:30:33 ►

just like oh my god uh and i was looking around surrounded by the mine ruins and so we wandered

00:30:41 ►

around the mine ruins and uh you know the texture and the moss and the different colors and the history and all the life and incredible, you know, life of the Mayans just soaked in that for a couple of hours.

00:30:59 ►

And then we came back together.

00:31:01 ►

Matea and I had been wandering on our own. We came back together and there were some German tourists who weren’t tripping at all.

00:31:08 ►

But we were just like tripping balls, crazy.

00:31:11 ►

Yeah.

00:31:12 ►

I mean, just like, oh, my God.

00:31:14 ►

And the German tourist was pointing over and he was like, that’s where they used to sacrifice people and throw people.

00:31:22 ►

And he just suggested death in my mind.

00:31:26 ►

And it was like I was off to the races.

00:31:28 ►

It’s like I started to believe that I was going to die that day.

00:31:32 ►

Certainly, somehow, it was going to happen.

00:31:35 ►

You know, I went rushing and saw Sasha Shulgin guiding people through my rooms.

00:31:42 ►

He had a shock of white hair.

00:31:42 ►

and guiding people through my rooms.

00:31:46 ►

He had a shock of white hair, and I just went and grabbed him by the back and started babbling in Spanish and French and any language I knew,

00:31:51 ►

just to help.

00:31:53 ►

And he was just laughing.

00:31:54 ►

He was so calm and so reassuring, just like psychedelic grandpa.

00:32:00 ►

Oh, yeah, you’re just tripping out of your fucking mind, you know?

00:32:08 ►

oh yeah you’re just tripping out of your fucking mind you know and i was trying to give him i had some 5meo with me i was like trying to give it to sasha because i knew i was going to die

00:32:13 ►

and so i wanted him to give it to terrence back at the hotel it’s complete nonsense but

00:32:21 ►

to make a long story short i didn’t physically physically die. I finally went to sleep that night. Next day, sitting by the flowing brook, by the water, all the lyrics to the Chautauqua Yook, the Nature Loves Courage CD that plays, that Lorenzo plays

00:32:45 ►

and the whole CD just came

00:32:48 ►

pouring through. I just wrote

00:32:50 ►

it down word for word. I didn’t

00:32:52 ►

think about it and it was just

00:32:54 ►

an amazing

00:32:55 ►

artistic

00:32:57 ►

kick in the ass.

00:33:00 ►

You know, because Terrence

00:33:02 ►

was always like

00:33:03 ►

stressing the idea that all artists had to put the pedal to the metal now.

00:33:09 ►

You know, we had to get the word out that there are answers.

00:33:15 ►

With intelligent research and good intentions, you can live in paradise all the time.

00:33:27 ►

Shock, after all these years,

00:33:29 ►

this is the first time I’ve learned the story of where that CD and all this

00:33:33 ►

music came from.

00:33:35 ►

And so it has so much more meaning to me that it’s a theme song for the salon.

00:33:40 ►

You know, that’s awesome.

00:33:41 ►

I love that story.

00:33:42 ►

Yeah.

00:33:43 ►

Yeah.

00:33:43 ►

And any real art just gets inspired, whether you know about’s that’s awesome i love that story yeah yeah and any real art is just gets inspired

00:33:47 ►

whether you know about it or not you know but as you produce it it just it’s something that

00:33:52 ►

like even this book it’s like something that just had to spill out i’m so had i had to get it done

00:33:59 ►

i started writing it a year before my heart attack when i first moved to orchids like as a way to

00:34:04 ►

just archive my life.

00:34:06 ►

You know, I got to leave these stories behind for somebody.

00:34:09 ►

You know, I can only tell them to a certain amount of people at the time.

00:34:14 ►

The culminating story in this thing, I’ll just give you a hint,

00:34:17 ►

is smoking DMT with Terrence McKenna in Hawaii three months before he died,

00:34:25 ►

when he knew he was going to die.

00:34:26 ►

I was the last person he held the pipe for.

00:34:29 ►

And that, I’ll suggest, I could read it on the book,

00:34:35 ►

but it would probably be better for just people to read it themselves.

00:34:39 ►

It was over the top, and I was the 13th person in a group of 13

00:34:44 ►

to sit in front of him smoking his DMT.

00:34:48 ►

And it answered the question definitively that I had had for a couple of years,

00:34:54 ►

what’s the difference between 5-MeO DMT and NN DMT?

00:34:59 ►

What is the experiential difference?

00:35:03 ►

Because I encountered 5-MeO DMT with Matt first, so I didn’t know.

00:35:11 ►

And, boy, he showed me.

00:35:13 ►

I got to see.

00:35:14 ►

I got the full-blown Terrence McKenna DMT shining elves.

00:35:24 ►

Oh, man. Shining Elves Oh man

00:35:25 ►

I should probably read it

00:35:29 ►

Because it’s like

00:35:30 ►

Trying to explain

00:35:32 ►

How over the top it was

00:35:34 ►

It’s only like a paragraph isn’t it

00:35:38 ►

Yeah yeah I guess I could do that

00:35:41 ►

I could find that

00:35:43 ►

While you’re Looking for that Mate, I should point out something here.

00:35:48 ►

The moral of this story seems to be it’s a good thing he didn’t finish that book

00:35:52 ►

before he had that heart attack on stage because wanting to finish the book is what brought him back.

00:35:58 ►

That’s why he came back.

00:35:59 ►

So my procrastination on putting off finishing this book I’m working on right now,

00:36:06 ►

maybe it’s saving my life.

00:36:08 ►

Yeah.

00:36:09 ►

Well,

00:36:09 ►

you know,

00:36:09 ►

I had actually reached a point in the,

00:36:11 ►

in the book where I was kind of stuck because I was describing the grief that

00:36:15 ►

I’m losing people.

00:36:17 ►

And I was like kind of stuck.

00:36:18 ►

And where,

00:36:19 ►

where do I end this book?

00:36:20 ►

You know,

00:36:20 ►

I ended right now.

00:36:22 ►

And,

00:36:23 ►

uh,

00:36:23 ►

and then I had the heart attack.

00:36:25 ►

Well, and it was like, there’s the end of. And then I had the heart attack.

00:36:28 ►

And it was like, there’s the end of the book.

00:36:29 ►

There’s the whole story.

00:36:31 ►

It wraps up and makes total sense.

00:36:34 ►

You had to come back and write it.

00:36:35 ►

Otherwise, you wouldn’t, you know.

00:36:37 ►

I had to come back and finish it.

00:36:38 ►

And here it is.

00:36:41 ►

He’s resurrected, and he died for our sins.

00:36:44 ►

I did, and it’s a day after Easter.

00:36:46 ►

So it’s a day after Easter. So here it’s a perfect,

00:36:47 ►

perfect timing.

00:36:51 ►

Like everything in life is perfect timing to die.

00:36:53 ►

After,

00:36:58 ►

after playing a concert to have a heart attack on stage and have people there to,

00:37:00 ►

to actually revive you with,

00:37:03 ►

with equipment necessary to revive you is just such an impossible

00:37:06 ►

odds of something like that happening and and so it’s about the it’s about timing somehow i

00:37:13 ►

chose that time to check out and it’s because i was doing exactly what i love to do i followed

00:37:19 ►

my heart i’m playing music at a small, beautiful family, psychedelic festival.

00:37:25 ►

It’s like, it’s going to be a hard one to beat.

00:37:29 ►

Let’s also compliment the festival organizer, Darren Long,

00:37:33 ►

and all of the people at the festival that worked on his staff, all volunteers,

00:37:37 ►

because they’re the ones that really had everything there.

00:37:40 ►

He knew how to plan for things like this, and obviously he did it well.

00:37:46 ►

Well, yeah, he was, I tell you you when they took me away in the helicopter he was he was biting his nails for a couple of

00:37:52 ►

days to find out if i was going to survive and when it when it turns out that i did survive he

00:37:57 ►

was like overjoyed you know and it’s like yeah it’s got a happy ending. For what it’s worth, we were all overjoyed.

00:38:07 ►

You?

00:38:10 ►

Yeah, me too.

00:38:12 ►

I’m pretty happy about it.

00:38:15 ►

I really, I highly recommend it.

00:38:18 ►

I mean, and if you can’t, do 5-MUODMT.

00:38:19 ►

It’s the next closest thing.

00:38:24 ►

Here’s that chapter.

00:38:29 ►

Answers be held on the third day of grandmother works terence arrived in a weakened state with christy all chemical arts two weeks before had leptin

00:38:34 ►

fatigue we met in the living room for orientation and terence addressed our group of 13 by laying

00:38:40 ►

the ground rules for the experience there are no rules except that the first person to

00:38:47 ►

speak is the one smoking. All others will hold space in silence during the smoker’s journey.

00:38:54 ►

At the same time, he administered two people at a time with each person facing each other on either

00:38:58 ►

side of him. As the first two took their positions, he prepared the pipes for more.

00:39:10 ►

I advise you to very lightly kiss the pipe as drawing too hard is not effective.

00:39:13 ►

After the first hit, I’ll wait a minute and ask you if you want another.

00:39:18 ►

If you can hear me and get up, I suggest you hit it again.

00:39:22 ►

I will repeat this process until you’ve broken through and can no longer do it.

00:39:26 ►

The goal is not to get stuck half-baked as it were.

00:39:32 ►

He handed the pipe to the first traveler and fired the bowl filled with his personal NMDMT stash,

00:39:38 ►

a clear rock the size of a golf ball that he shaved with a razor blade into the pipe.

00:39:42 ►

After smoking, each person laid back waiting for the flash to hit.

00:39:45 ►

A minute later, Terrence asked if they want another. Most did, and some took a third before the medicine took effect. A couple of

00:39:52 ►

hours later, after six pairs had smoked and reached various levels of DMT consciousness,

00:39:59 ►

Terrence asked, did I miss anyone? I slowly raised my hand.

00:40:05 ►

Me.

00:40:07 ►

This made me number 13.

00:40:13 ►

My heart attack was on Friday the 13th on a full moon, by the way.

00:40:15 ►

13 is my lucky number.

00:40:22 ►

This made me number 13, the final person left to experience this miracle in his presence.

00:40:24 ►

Come up and let’s do this.

00:40:32 ►

The surreal nature of the situation hit me as I sat before him. I was about to smoke Terrence McKenna’s NMDMT with him in a Frank Lloyd Wright house in Hawaii after two days of drinking Terrence’s

00:40:40 ►

ayahuasca brew. My entire psychedelic life had brought me to this moment, and I decided to

00:40:46 ►

make the most of it by going for it with as much courage and gusto as possible. Carpe diem. Terrence

00:40:53 ►

handed me the pipe, a six-inch glass tube with a round glass bubble at the business head.

00:40:58 ►

He shaved about half a gram from his crystal clear golf ball of DMT and deposited some in the pipe before handing it to me.

00:41:08 ►

He applied a blue torch from a beautiful hand lighter

00:41:10 ►

to the bowl and in a signature voice said,

00:41:15 ►

now kiss the pipe.

00:41:18 ►

I emptied my lungs with a long exhale

00:41:21 ►

and very lightly kissed the pipe,

00:41:22 ►

filling my lungs with sacred smoke.

00:41:24 ►

After holding the hit for five seconds, I exhaled and prepared the next hit.

00:41:28 ►

I kissed it again and with lungs at full capacity held it.

00:41:33 ►

We repeated this once more and at this point I laid back holding the third hit.

00:41:39 ►

I was in a circus starting to enjoy fantastic colorful hallucinations

00:41:44 ►

when in the far distance I heard in his charming starting to enjoy fantastic, colorful hallucinations,

00:41:49 ►

when in the far distance I heard in his charming, hypnotic nasal drawl,

00:41:52 ►

do you want another hit?

00:41:56 ►

It took me everything I had to sit up,

00:42:00 ►

and I felt the pipe being held in my lips and heard the torch of the flame.

00:42:04 ►

As I inhaled, I opened my eyes to see Terrence’s head and face and watched it explode into tiny fractal versions or replicas perfectly identical and spaced apart as if I had the vision of a bee.

00:42:14 ►

Those tiny Terrence heads morphed slowly into shiny silver reflective perfectly aligned spheres that filled my entire field of vision. The mirrored balls emitted shafts of rainbow light in all directions

00:42:28 ►

and rotated toward me,

00:42:31 ►

bathing me in the light of a ruthlessly pure machine elf love.

00:42:35 ►

I was the clown and the circus, and the joke was on me.

00:42:40 ►

I stayed stunned in this encounter with alien love for a while

00:42:43 ►

and eventually came back into my body.

00:42:45 ►

I looked around and realized that I now sat in a different part of the room, about 10 feet from where Terrence sat.

00:42:52 ►

The look on people’s faces ranged from shock and started on smiling and amused because I had been loud and agitated.

00:43:00 ►

Feeling like I might have said too much already, I stayed silent, hoping to get my bearings in my body.

00:43:07 ►

After an extended period of awkward silence, Terrence broke his own rule.

00:43:13 ►

Now that’s how I smoke DMT.

00:43:18 ►

Tension released, a roaring laugh coming from everyone, including Terrence, who clearly enjoyed himself.

00:43:24 ►

This event permanently altered me in ways that I’m still processing to this day.

00:43:29 ►

My question for Terrence was finally answered,

00:43:31 ►

and now I can say I know the difference between NMD&T and 5MEOD&T experience.

00:43:37 ►

What a way to end the 20th century and begin the 21st.

00:43:41 ►

And then I have a Hawaiian kahuna.

00:43:40 ►

21st.

00:43:43 ►

And then I have a Hawaiian Kahuna. Be aware, be free,

00:43:46 ►

be focused, be

00:43:47 ►

here, be loved,

00:43:50 ►

be strong, and be healed.

00:43:55 ►

That’s a great story.

00:43:58 ►

That’s why I had to write

00:43:59 ►

it down. I was like, oh my god,

00:44:01 ►

it’s so clear.

00:44:02 ►

I mean,

00:44:05 ►

that’s exactly what happened.

00:44:10 ►

I’ve heard some other stories

00:44:11 ►

from that two

00:44:14 ►

week experience. I got

00:44:15 ►

invited, but I could not take the

00:44:18 ►

time off and afford to do it.

00:44:19 ►

I’ve always been sorry about that, but

00:44:21 ►

on the other hand, I’m not sure I was up to that

00:44:23 ►

because I’ve seen Jacques under some of his experiences, and he is an active user.

00:44:31 ►

Let me just say, he doesn’t necessarily put the eye shades on and sit still.

00:44:38 ►

I try not to hold back.

00:44:41 ►

So are there other questions here?

00:44:43 ►

It says, Matteo and I have kind of dominated this.

00:44:46 ►

Anybody here some other questions you have?

00:44:50 ►

Yeah, we’re open.

00:44:52 ►

Go ahead.

00:44:57 ►

Hey, Charles, thanks for your contributions there, bro.

00:45:00 ►

And he did do a great reading.

00:45:02 ►

I love the Terrence accent.

00:45:04 ►

I hadn’t heard you do that before, dude.

00:45:06 ►

That was good.

00:45:07 ►

I’ll try to work on that impression and ham it up a bit.

00:45:12 ►

Yeah.

00:45:14 ►

So I really want to make this about you, Paloka,

00:45:19 ►

but I do have one quick story I want to tell.

00:45:22 ►

It’s not about me.

00:45:24 ►

No, all right.

00:45:25 ►

I’ll take the spotlight off you for just a brief second.

00:45:28 ►

Yeah.

00:45:30 ►

So when the alchemical arts was going on,

00:45:32 ►

I couldn’t afford to go because my novel,

00:45:35 ►

my historical novel, Land Without Evil, was coming out.

00:45:38 ►

And the day the books came from the printer,

00:45:40 ►

I called up Paloka and I said,

00:45:41 ►

hey, man, are you going to,

00:45:44 ►

what time are you going to bed? He said, I’m not, I’m staying up all night. I’m leaving in the morning.

00:45:48 ►

And so I said, I’m on my way. And I drove online. I drove up to LA from San Diego and I

00:45:53 ►

gave him the absolute very first copy of the printing of Land Without Evil with a care package

00:45:59 ►

for Terrence. And he brought it to him and hand delivered it. And then I turned around and drove all the way home

00:46:05 ►

and slammed coffee and went to work all day the next day.

00:46:08 ►

But it may very well have been the last book

00:46:11 ►

that Terrence read,

00:46:12 ►

which ultimately led to Lorenzo,

00:46:15 ►

you and I meeting with Mary C.

00:46:18 ►

You want to pick up that thread?

00:46:20 ►

Well, I’ll add to your story about Terrence

00:46:23 ►

in that last Saturday when Bruce was telling the story about, you know, posthumous glory.

00:46:30 ►

That’s where the action is when Terrence said that.

00:46:33 ►

After that panel, Terrence sat on a chair, which he hated this.

00:46:38 ►

It was very awkward for him.

00:46:40 ►

We all wanted to send him loving energy.

00:46:42 ►

So we made him sit on this chair in the middle of this room after Constance Denby had done her concert.

00:46:49 ►

And we all laid on the floor with our heads pointing toward Terrence.

00:46:53 ►

And Bruce was actually laying on the floor right there next to Terrence.

00:46:57 ►

And he commented on the fact that your book was, Terrence was holding it during this whole time. So, you know, that book was very obvious during the

00:47:08 ►

session there, the all chemical arts thing. At the time, I didn’t know Mateo. And so I guess

00:47:16 ►

a few weeks later, I’m at this undisclosed location to do ayahuasca. And, you know, I got

00:47:24 ►

there early and I set up my stuff, and

00:47:26 ►

this guy came in next to me, and he was just kind of irritating, you know, he’s making noise, and

00:47:32 ►

he’s kind of robust and all, and he gets his stuff out, and all of a sudden, he opens his bag,

00:47:38 ►

and some books pile out, and there’s that book that Terrence was carrying. And it was Mateo, it was his book. And

00:47:45 ►

we’ve been fast friends ever since. We’ve had our few knockdown drag outs, but we’ve made it through,

00:47:51 ►

you know, we get bloodied like Irish people do, and then we shake hands and move ahead. So we’ve

00:47:57 ►

been close friends since that. And it all had to do with that connection with Terrence, because if

00:48:02 ►

I hadn’t seen that book in Terrence’s hand,

00:48:08 ►

I probably would have stayed irritated at you for that whole session. I don’t know.

00:48:11 ►

You blew it. You should have. You had your chance, dude.

00:48:16 ►

And as we all know, my obnoxiousness and my better qualities, right?

00:48:26 ►

So, you know, too, I don’t know if anybody knows, but we just lost Constance there about a week ago Constance Demby

00:48:27 ►

yeah I don’t know if too many people are

00:48:30 ►

familiar with her she was a really wonderful

00:48:33 ►

musician

00:48:34 ►

and she

00:48:35 ►

played at Terrence’s All Chemical Arts

00:48:38 ►

and her instrument that she

00:48:40 ►

created I forgot what it’s called

00:48:42 ►

Space Beast

00:48:44 ►

yes and she had to have it

00:48:48 ►

shipped by it had to go by ship to hawaii it was so big and bulky i mean she spent a lot of money

00:48:54 ►

to do that and uh so she wanted to play that final concert uh for terrence to hear so uh uh and then

00:49:00 ►

she you know she’s played a lot of other things. She played at the event that Bruce and I did in 2012 at Sierra Madre when we did the Terrence Memorial thing then, too.

00:49:11 ►

So she’s been a part of the community for a long time.

00:49:15 ►

And sorry to see her go, but it’s been a year of that, I guess.

00:49:19 ►

Yeah.

00:49:20 ►

Somebody, one of you guys can correct me, but somebody put up here on the chat the difference between NN and 5-MeO.

00:49:27 ►

And I think, I think what they used to say that, was it NM was the power and 5-MeO was the glory?

00:49:34 ►

Is that what they used to say?

00:49:35 ►

I think I’ve heard that before.

00:49:37 ►

Power and the glory.

00:49:39 ►

Yeah.

00:49:40 ►

So, two quite different effects.

00:49:43 ►

I actually tried it for a period of time to smoke them both at the

00:49:45 ►

same time but the melting points were different i never was successful and that’s also a very

00:49:51 ►

stupid idea if you want to know the truth he’s full of them he’s full of them now one after the

00:49:59 ►

other i would think would be kind of interesting you you know, but that, and for people who have never used either one of them that NNDMT,

00:50:07 ►

they call it the power and it is just overwhelming.

00:50:11 ►

It’s the most powerful psychedelic experience there is possibly.

00:50:16 ►

I don’t know. I haven’t had all of them, but the, the five MEO,

00:50:20 ►

the glory is instead of this powerful psychedelic experience,

00:50:27 ►

the glory is instead of this powerful psychedelic experience you just dissolve into countless trillions of little bits of dust in the cosmos and you’re just diffused throughout the cosmos

00:50:34 ►

and it’s the glory of it all it’s the really just totally different experiences and each one is

00:50:41 ►

something to the worth having i’m sure. I suspect everybody probably has.

00:50:46 ►

If not, you should.

00:50:48 ►

NN is very visually stimulating.

00:50:53 ►

There’s real strong visual cortex activity.

00:51:01 ►

So 5-MeO just seems to be less that and more vibratory, I guess you could say,

00:51:08 ►

or even sound-based. They just sort of act on different centers of the brain.

00:51:14 ►

And like I said, 5-MeO is like sort of like power down. It’s this whole gamma state that your your brain will enter if if if you’re it feels like it’s dying that’s

00:51:28 ►

when the frogs met it’s you know synthesized by the frogs to stun the prey and it’s not the prey

00:51:35 ►

that people that are the people the animals that are preying on the animals that are preying on

00:51:40 ►

them to just stun them and thinking they’re dead,

00:51:46 ►

but without killing them.

00:51:48 ►

So it’s a very powerful near-death experience.

00:51:53 ►

Whereas NN, you can literally just stay in your body and see overlays

00:51:57 ►

and see these beings.

00:52:01 ►

Nature loves courage.

00:52:04 ►

All right, thank you. On Amazon, there’s an e-book and a tree book

00:52:07 ►

the e-book has color pictures and links and all that kind of fun stuff and i think it’s a quick

00:52:13 ►

read it’s it’s it’s a fun read there’s pretty action-packed and it’s got a great happy ending

00:52:18 ►

so there you go all right awesome yeah reviews really, really help if anybody’s so inclined.

00:52:27 ►

Well, I think what’s really amazing is that Tao and Jacques spent a month together,

00:52:33 ►

and neither one of them is in prison right now.

00:52:36 ►

So I think that is an amazing story in and of itself.

00:52:40 ►

And with that, everybody, I’m going to call it a night for now,

00:52:44 ►

and I hope to see you Thursday or next Monday.

00:52:46 ►

But until then, keep the old faith and stay high.

00:52:51 ►

And for now, this is Lorenzo signing off from Cyberdelic Space.

00:52:56 ►

Namaste, my friends.

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