Program Notes
Guest speaker: Myron Stolaroff and Robert Forte
This is a recording from the spring of 2006, at Kathleen’s Salon in Venice Beach, California, where Robert Forte and Myron Stolaroff came to tell their stories about the recent festivities in Basil, Switzerland celebrating the 100th anniversary of the birth of Dr. Albert Hofmann, the discoverer of LSD. After telling a little about the Hofmann event, Myron read part of the talk that he gave in Basil. From there, the conversation ranged widely, eventually ending with an argument about the Kennedy assassination.
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Transcript
00:00:00 ►
Greetings from cyberdelic space.
00:00:20 ►
This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.
00:00:25 ►
space. This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon. And I’d like to begin today by thanking Debbie S. and Matthew R., both of whom made a donation to help with the expenses
00:00:31 ►
here in the salon. And I thank both of you very much for your kind support. Now, if you listen
00:00:39 ►
to my podcast before the one just previous, you heard me read a chapter from my novel,
00:00:43 ►
The Genesis Generation,
00:00:45 ►
in which I describe one of the wonderful Venice Beach salons that were organized and
00:00:50 ►
led for over eight years by the wonderful Kathleen. And in my fictional recreation of those events,
00:00:57 ►
I pointed out that these gatherings weren’t all feathers and pudding. At times, they could
00:01:01 ►
be quite contentious while still remaining civil. Well, guess what?
00:01:07 ►
I just came across an old recording that I made at one of these salons, and I’m going to play it
00:01:13 ►
for you now so that you can get just a little better understanding of how wide-ranging the
00:01:18 ►
discussions in that funky little house could become. What we’re about to listen to is a
00:01:23 ►
gathering that was held sometime
00:01:25 ►
after the large celebration in Basel, Switzerland to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the birth
00:01:31 ►
of Dr. Albert Hoffman, the discoverer of LSD and other equally interesting compounds.
00:01:38 ►
The two main speakers at this salon were Robert Forte and Myron Stolaroff, both of whom had given
00:01:44 ►
presentations at Dr. Hoffman’s celebration a few weeks before.
00:01:48 ►
Now, I don’t have the exact date of this salon,
00:01:50 ►
but it would most likely have been sometime in February or March of 2006.
00:01:56 ►
The main focus of the evening was to be a reading by Myron of the talk that he gave in Basel.
00:02:01 ►
But, as you will hear, it didn’t take long for the discussion to range far from Myron’s beautiful presentation,
00:02:08 ►
which I believe was one of Myron’s very last public appearances.
00:02:13 ►
And so now let’s relive that wonderful evening and listen for ourselves
00:02:18 ►
how a conversation can move from the celebration of the life of Dr. Albert Hoffman
00:02:23 ►
to theories about the Kennedy assassination, propaganda, and other mind control techniques.
00:02:30 ►
Welcome to the salon.
00:02:34 ►
So who else was in Switzerland with us? Gene?
00:02:39 ►
Is that all? You guys missed the event of the century, I would say.
00:02:44 ►
Is that all? You guys missed the event of the century, I would say.
00:02:53 ►
I should say, I never saw anything put on so effectively and so carefully as these people did.
00:02:54 ►
Louder.
00:02:55 ►
Can’t hear you.
00:03:00 ►
It was run like a Swiss watch. The organization was just superb, but
00:03:05 ►
the power of the event, too.
00:03:08 ►
What was being
00:03:09 ►
celebrated, and there in
00:03:11 ►
Basel, you know, such a rich
00:03:13 ►
history of alchemy
00:03:15 ►
and the birthplace
00:03:18 ►
of medicine,
00:03:19 ►
and walking through these narrow
00:03:22 ►
streets on the way to the
00:03:24 ►
first celebration where Albert
00:03:26 ►
Hoffman was honored by the
00:03:28 ►
high society of Switzerland,
00:03:30 ►
by a whole parade of
00:03:32 ►
leading philosophers,
00:03:34 ►
the presidents of Switzerland had a statement
00:03:36 ►
prepared for him. It was all in
00:03:38 ►
German, so I didn’t get the
00:03:41 ►
meaning of it. Did you understand
00:03:42 ►
the German? Not a word.
00:03:44 ►
So all the other senses were open to receiving the tremendous feeling of respect
00:03:49 ►
and honor that they had for their countrymen who was 100 years old
00:03:54 ►
and who had contributed what is one of the single most important discoveries
00:03:58 ►
in all science and religion, really.
00:04:01 ►
It has not yet dawned on society that that’s what this is.
00:04:06 ►
But you could get a sense of it there,
00:04:08 ►
that this was being recorded with that kind of power.
00:04:11 ►
That’s what I thought.
00:04:12 ►
And the wonderful part of it was,
00:04:15 ►
there were 72 presenters on the last three days,
00:04:21 ►
72 presenters,
00:04:23 ►
and these were really well-informed people who really
00:04:26 ►
understood these things. So I think it’s the first time that there’s been a real appeal
00:04:33 ►
for real understanding in this field, and I think a great deal will come from it.
00:04:40 ►
Yeah, you mentioned the presenters. I was thinking about the people that were there.
00:04:45 ►
There were about 2,500 people that were there,
00:04:49 ►
and a whole entire range of humanity.
00:04:52 ►
I mean, everything was represented at this conference,
00:04:55 ►
from the most horrific kind of treatment that people who use psychedelic drugs receive
00:05:01 ►
in the law in the United States, people in prison, indeed.
00:05:05 ►
The Inquisition is continuing unabated,
00:05:08 ►
and that was very much present at this conference.
00:05:10 ►
But at the other end of the human experience,
00:05:12 ►
the experience unified with these profound mysteries,
00:05:18 ►
that everybody shared it,
00:05:19 ►
from the most acid-crazed freaks that were there
00:05:22 ►
to some of the world’s most renowned scientists and philosophers.
00:05:27 ►
And it was remarkable.
00:05:29 ►
Thanks.
00:05:30 ►
I’d like to point out that here
00:05:32 ►
out of 2,500 people and 72
00:05:35 ►
presenters, Kathleen gets two of the
00:05:37 ►
presenters.
00:05:38 ►
I think we’re pretty honored.
00:05:40 ►
Yeah.
00:05:44 ►
It was really a great, great honor to be asked to speak there.
00:05:48 ►
But it was also, I was thinking as I was leaving,
00:05:51 ►
the day before I left, you know, I was here a month or so before,
00:05:55 ►
and I was asked to speak at the conference on Timothy Leary,
00:06:00 ►
who, of course, I knew very well and I did a book about.
00:06:03 ►
But Timothy is also one of the most divisive figures in the whole psychedelic movement.
00:06:08 ►
In one sense, he kind of spawned it and popularized it and made it happen,
00:06:13 ►
but he’s also one of the most despised by a certain cadre of professional researchers
00:06:19 ►
that also form a very major part of what these meetings are.
00:06:23 ►
So I tried to make sense of this in my book about Numerikov.
00:06:27 ►
I did.
00:06:28 ►
But the day before I was leaving to go to Switzerland,
00:06:32 ►
the New York Times came out with an article about Albert Hoffman turning 100 years old.
00:06:36 ►
And it was this very beautiful article about him.
00:06:40 ►
Except it ends with Albert Hoffman saying that what Timothy Leary did
00:06:47 ►
and the popularizing of LSD came down very hard on it,
00:06:51 ►
that this was a crime, it says in the article.
00:06:54 ►
And I think, oh, great.
00:06:55 ►
So I’m going to the conference to kind of, you know, celebrate LSD
00:07:00 ►
and all of its complexity and Timothy and for all of his brilliance and madness.
00:07:05 ►
And here’s this, you know, cry.
00:07:08 ►
And I thought, you know, and I got in my car and I’m driving up the coast
00:07:11 ►
and the first song that comes on the radio is Teenage Wasteland.
00:07:15 ►
And I thought, oh, you know, who is that that people blame him for?
00:07:19 ►
And that’s one of his most, you know, one of the worst things he did.
00:07:24 ►
People just followed his charisma and tripped out.
00:07:27 ►
And a lot of the government’s reaction to oppressing psychedelic drugs
00:07:31 ►
makes a lot of sense, and a lot of it is because of Tim.
00:07:37 ►
But I thought I didn’t want to be bringing up all this kind of downer shit
00:07:40 ►
at this conference.
00:07:41 ►
I didn’t want to know what I was going to talk about.
00:07:44 ►
So my plane, this
00:07:45 ►
is kind of a funny story, my plane flew to Dallas first, and then it was going to go
00:07:50 ►
on to Zurich, and I thought, okay, so maybe I should talk about the 60s. You know, how
00:07:55 ►
they began, really, in Dallas with the assassination of John Kennedy, and the hoisting upon the
00:08:02 ►
American people of this Warren Commission, a completely contrived explanation of what happened on that day.
00:08:09 ►
And so all of a sudden there’s this social reality that’s false.
00:08:14 ►
And what many people really believe is true, that Kennedy was killed, is part of the military coup d’etat.
00:08:20 ►
And so a counterculture starts to form.
00:08:21 ►
I thought I would bring up this as I’m flying to Dallas, thinking about it.
00:08:26 ►
I get on the plane in Dallas, and I have to sit next to this kind of conservative Dallas businessman.
00:08:32 ►
And I think, oh, great, it’s going to be a long flight to Switzerland.
00:08:36 ►
He says to me, where are you going?
00:08:39 ►
I said, well, I’m going to Switzerland.
00:08:41 ►
A friend of mine is turning 100 years old.
00:08:43 ►
He kept asking me, he said, well, who’s your friend? I’m going to switch my name. A friend of mine is turning 100 years old.
00:08:48 ►
He kept asking me, he says, oh, who’s your friend?
00:08:51 ►
So I finally say, you know, his name is Albert Hoffman.
00:08:52 ►
He was a great chemist.
00:08:57 ►
I kind of looked at him and I said, he discovered LSD.
00:09:03 ►
And the guy looked at me and I said, well, I thought Timothy Leary discovered LSD.
00:09:06 ►
Oh, my gosh.
00:09:10 ►
And I said, well, I said, actually, no, it was Albert Hoffman.
00:09:11 ►
But I knew Timothy.
00:09:13 ►
I’m going to be giving a talk about Timothy Leary.
00:09:17 ►
And he said, well, he said, oh, that’s right. He said, Timothy Leary just figured out what to do with it.
00:09:30 ►
And I looked at him. And then that’s when he said, he says, so what are you going to say about it? And I said, well, I said, well, this is one thing. He said, and then he said,
00:09:38 ►
he said, whoa, he said, why don’t you just put LSD in the punch, and then you won’t have to say anything. Yeah.
00:09:47 ►
Yeah.
00:09:48 ►
Yeah.
00:09:56 ►
Did you take it with you?
00:09:57 ►
Huh?
00:09:58 ►
Did you take it with you?
00:09:59 ►
Yeah.
00:10:00 ►
No, it was great.
00:10:01 ►
So Dallas.
00:10:12 ►
So, yeah, it was just incredible. And it was, I thought, I don’t know, what, I have some footage.
00:10:13 ►
Why don’t we share this?
00:10:19 ►
I have a little piece of videotape that I shot the last day that’s unedited,
00:10:20 ►
but I can skip through part of it.
00:10:21 ►
But some of it’s very cool.
00:10:22 ►
Why don’t we take a minute and watch that?
00:10:24 ►
Okay, that was so nice to see. I want to take a minute and watch that. I don’t know what else to say.
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How do you turn this off? Let’s see.
00:10:27 ►
I guess we sit in the floor.
00:10:29 ►
Let’s turn the TV off.
00:10:31 ►
Turn the TV off.
00:10:34 ►
Albert Hoffman
00:10:35 ►
at 100 years old
00:10:37 ►
is as fit and vital
00:10:39 ►
in his mind as any of us
00:10:41 ►
in this room.
00:10:43 ►
He’s walking with a little camera. We’ll see him here in room. He’s walking with a little cane.
00:10:46 ►
We’ll see him here in a minute.
00:10:47 ►
He walks with a little cane.
00:10:49 ►
But he is… He’s got to make you feel like a kid, huh?
00:10:52 ►
I think it was really remarkable, though,
00:10:54 ►
because he started off the program,
00:10:57 ►
the three-day program,
00:11:00 ►
and he spoke strongly.
00:11:05 ►
He covered a lot of ground from his past,
00:11:10 ►
and he kept talking for a long time.
00:11:14 ►
We all thought, here’s this 100-year-old man.
00:11:18 ►
He’s tired, but he was right up there
00:11:21 ►
and very, very strong and powerful.
00:11:23 ►
We just had to really admire this man.
00:11:27 ►
The first thing he said to me, I hadn’t seen him in about ten years,
00:11:29 ►
and I went up to him and he goes,
00:11:31 ►
Oh, Robert, my friend.
00:11:32 ►
And he looks at me and goes,
00:11:33 ►
You look so much older.
00:11:41 ►
I said that article came out in the New York Times
00:11:44 ►
with Albert calling Lear a criminal.
00:11:48 ►
Actually, Albert didn’t call Lear a criminal.
00:11:51 ►
That was the New York Times writer putting that in.
00:11:54 ►
And when I brought that to Albert’s attention,
00:11:56 ►
he was very upset about it,
00:11:58 ►
and we wrote a letter, we signed it,
00:12:00 ►
and the New York Times actually did print this correction.
00:12:05 ►
It was a misstatement. It was used, which we thought was pretty cool.
00:12:10 ►
And in spite of this conference being such a wide array,
00:12:15 ►
there wasn’t any divisiveness, really, between the sort of counterculture use of LSD
00:12:21 ►
and the establishment’s attempts to do research with it.
00:12:27 ►
I don’t think anything like that came out at all.
00:12:30 ►
Yeah.
00:12:30 ►
Because the people who were presenting had profound understanding of LSD and its potential
00:12:40 ►
and how it could be properly used.
00:12:42 ►
And that was the atmosphere all the way through as far as I could tell.
00:12:52 ►
What about being up on stage during the last part there?
00:12:55 ►
I thought that was extremely awesome.
00:12:58 ►
Albert?
00:13:00 ►
He’s talking about actually the closing of the event.
00:13:06 ►
And I was in the large room, over 1,500 people.
00:13:14 ►
The presenters and Albert and others were up on the podiums, so to speak.
00:13:21 ►
I don’t know if podium is right because it’s spread out. So we were up there
00:13:26 ►
looking down at some 1,500 or more people watching, and it was a very, very moving thing,
00:13:36 ►
extremely moving.
00:13:38 ►
Oh yeah, I feel like we’re right this year. I was the last speaker at the symposium, and so I’ll present this to you as I did there.
00:13:54 ►
Consciousness is undoubtedly the most valuable attribute of all human possessions.
00:14:07 ►
possessions. From the beginning of human presence, consciousness has continued to rise in depth,
00:14:15 ►
comprehension, intelligence, skills, and creativity. Can you hear me all right?
00:14:17 ►
No, not very good.
00:14:28 ►
Looking at our world today, we cannot help but be enormously awed by the developments that have been made through the centuries.
00:14:35 ►
But for all of our growth in consciousness and incredible developments,
00:14:45 ►
humanity for the most part has a very long way to go to experience the higher levels of consciousness that await us.
00:14:52 ►
Looking at what has been accomplished over the centuries, we cannot help but be awed at the astounding progress that has been made.
00:14:56 ►
A short list includes many who live in luxury and beautiful homes. Plentiful food is available in a variety of forms.
00:15:08 ►
Transportation abounds from bicycles to automobiles to airplanes.
00:15:14 ►
Education as well as entertainment is widespread.
00:15:18 ►
On the other hand, there is great pain and suffering throughout the world.
00:15:24 ►
There are committed believers who feel that their God is the only one,
00:15:29 ►
which means that it’s perfectly all right to kill those who hold a different belief.
00:15:34 ►
Large numbers of humans live in poverty and have no means of financial support.
00:15:42 ►
Many suffer from diseases and starvation. Education is beyond the reach of huge numbers
00:15:49 ►
of people. Fortunately, there have been wise ones throughout the centuries who were moved
00:15:57 ►
to study life situations and find ways to overcome suffering. The Buddha is an outstanding example.
00:16:07 ►
Quoting from my Tibetan Buddhist teacher, Alan Wallace,
00:16:11 ►
author of the book, Downless Heart,
00:16:14 ►
the Buddha found from his own experiences
00:16:17 ►
that certain fundamental afflictions of the mind
00:16:21 ►
are the source of the distress we experience. The most fundamental of these afflictions of the mind are the source of the distress we experience.
00:16:27 ►
The most fundamental of these afflictions is delusions.
00:16:33 ►
And from this delusion, other questions of the mind occur.
00:16:38 ►
Selfish cravings, hostility, aggression, and a myriad of other derivative afflictions.
00:16:48 ►
The Buddha and the masters that followed after him found ways to train and develop the mind.
00:16:56 ►
Employing appropriate practices opened the door to the glorious potential of the spirit,
00:17:03 ►
revealing that love and compassion are the most appropriate answers.
00:17:09 ►
Over many centuries, Buddhists and other discoverers
00:17:13 ►
reached higher and higher levels of consciousness.
00:17:17 ►
While followers of these teachers grew and gained much reward,
00:17:23 ►
the number of followers are still a very low percentage
00:17:26 ►
of the total population of our planet.
00:17:31 ►
The discovery of who we are
00:17:33 ►
and what our potential can be
00:17:36 ►
was given an enormous boost
00:17:38 ►
when Dr. Albert Hoffman came forward with LSD.
00:17:43 ►
Within a few years, persons all over the world began to discover enormous openings of consciousness.
00:17:52 ►
Vast areas of discovery opened up repressed material.
00:17:58 ►
Vast areas of discovery opened up.
00:18:02 ►
Repressed material rose to the surface, in many cases revealing
00:18:07 ►
sources of discomfort that could now be released. Inappropriate behavior was recognized. Talking
00:18:18 ►
about what LSD has contributedropriate behavior was recognized.
00:18:26 ►
Mates, family members,
00:18:27 ►
and friends were seen
00:18:29 ►
in a greatly enhanced light.
00:18:32 ►
Heightened awareness
00:18:33 ►
opened the door to vast
00:18:35 ►
beauty and understanding.
00:18:38 ►
Most important of all,
00:18:40 ►
for open seekers
00:18:41 ►
came the realization
00:18:43 ►
that one is truly one with the universe, immersed in pure bliss.
00:18:51 ►
Unfortunately, there were many youngsters who managed to possess LSD and were anxious to explore without intelligent guidance.
00:19:10 ►
While naturally peaceful, contented, open-minded youngsters found riches from their experiences, more disturbed persons encountered deeply repressed material that was very painful and
00:19:17 ►
difficult to resolve.
00:19:20 ►
This often led to minds getting twisted and in some cases created unbearable pain.
00:19:28 ►
Sometimes such persons ended up in severe depressions and even in hospitals.
00:19:35 ►
Many physicians and their helpers did not have the knowledge to help such persons out of their dilemma.
00:19:42 ►
Parents were bewildered by the changes.
00:19:46 ►
In America, many uninformed physicians
00:19:50 ►
who were unfortunately in the majority
00:19:52 ►
in the punitive Federal Drug Enforcement Authority
00:19:56 ►
were happy to bitterly oppose such substances,
00:20:01 ►
resulting in the United States government
00:20:03 ►
making all such substances illegal.
00:20:07 ►
No research with psychedelic substances has been authorized by our Food and Drug Administration,
00:20:14 ►
but the possibility of research with LSD in the near future. Results are encouraging,
00:20:21 ►
and it is most likely only a matter of time before these valuable
00:20:26 ►
substances can be put into use.
00:20:32 ►
What is it like to enter the dimensions of higher consciousness?
00:20:37 ►
Dr. Holtman has presented a great deal of information from his own personal experiences
00:20:42 ►
in books he has written.
00:20:47 ►
of information from his own personal experiences in books he has written. In my own experience,
00:20:54 ►
I have been unusually blessed to have the privilege of entering dimensions never previously imagined. While I have not always been able to retain the full impact of these discoveries,
00:21:09 ►
discoveries. The impact of these openings has exposed such grandeur and fastness that the only acceptable response is incredible gratitude. Being human is still carrying burdens
00:21:17 ►
beyond my ability to resolve them. There still remains important work to be done. But just having experienced glimpses is enough to muster determination to press forward,
00:21:31 ►
for it is now clear that our real self,
00:21:35 ►
the true I that resides in the heart of each one of us,
00:21:40 ►
is present and available and is worth far more than anything one could possibly imagine.
00:21:49 ►
Entering this dimension is pure, indescribable bliss.
00:21:54 ►
We are one with the universe, including all other beings and creatures.
00:22:01 ►
And it is crystal clear that love is the only answer.
00:22:07 ►
It is really impossible to fully describe the remarkable essence of who we are.
00:22:13 ►
What I’m presenting here are simply words, and we all know how easy it is to present
00:22:19 ►
words in all kinds of ways. But in each of us is the remarkable core that is one with all. And hopefully,
00:22:30 ►
as these words are stated, something deep within yourself will recognize a new reality,
00:22:37 ►
a reality that is the most worthwhile thing that we can possibly realize. Hopefully just a taste of this can reveal what is possible
00:22:48 ►
and is ultimately real, the only reality that really matters.
00:22:55 ►
I do not mean that everyone can immediately enter into this stage. I’m simply saying that just knowing this is real and that its value surpasses anything
00:23:08 ►
else we could possibly imagine tells us that this is the most important endeavor that we
00:23:15 ►
can undertake.
00:23:16 ►
There are no doubt many who are not ready to accept such a conclusion.
00:23:24 ►
There are all kinds of people in the world,
00:23:26 ►
but many have already determined the objectives they prefer to pursue.
00:23:31 ►
Fine.
00:23:33 ►
Pursue your choices.
00:23:35 ►
But ultimately, you will reach the point where you recognize
00:23:40 ►
that there is no other endeavor that can be as precious as unfolding your true inner self,
00:23:47 ►
whether in this lifetime or future lifetimes.
00:23:53 ►
If the goal that I’ve just described is accurate and therefore desirable,
00:23:58 ►
how can it be obtained?
00:24:01 ►
There is no question that the appropriate use of LSD can open many important doors.
00:24:07 ►
And fortunately, many nations have outlawed LSD and similar substances.
00:24:13 ►
I’m ashamed to confess that the United States, supposedly the home of freedom,
00:24:20 ►
has been the major factor in outlawing these precious materials.
00:24:24 ►
has been the major factor in outlawing these precious materials.
00:24:29 ►
And hopefully, as current research produce favorable results,
00:24:34 ►
the day will come when appropriate applications will be permissible.
00:24:43 ►
In preparation for this time, let’s look at established procedures which can accomplish worthwhile goals.
00:24:45 ►
There are open, caring persons who naturally respond to the remarkable openness that are
00:24:53 ►
presented.
00:24:54 ►
There have been some who have been so enormously grateful for what they have learned in a single
00:25:01 ►
session that they are content to never imbibe again.
00:25:07 ►
Those who have more difficult times can be greatly helped by experience guides.
00:25:15 ►
This is an area I’m very familiar with,
00:25:18 ►
as it took me a number of years to clear up much of the garbage I was carrying.
00:25:24 ►
But the greater one is suffering,
00:25:26 ►
the more profound is the relief of getting free.
00:25:31 ►
Those who have the hardest time
00:25:33 ►
are those who have powerfully repressed material
00:25:37 ►
which the famous psychiatrist Carl Jung named the shadow.
00:25:42 ►
Carl Jung is no doubt one of the bravest men who ever lived, intentionally
00:25:48 ►
plunging deep into the unconscious to search out and resolve his inner conflicts. Shadow
00:25:56 ►
material can be very painful. The greatest sources of pain come from mistreatment, particularly at a young age where comprehension has not yet developed.
00:26:11 ►
Fear, pain, neglect, accidents, forced restrictions are all sources of such discomfort that our psyche psychic varies these feelings deep into the unconscious.
00:26:28 ►
A good psychedelic experience can open us to these restricted levels and permit discharging these uncomfortable feelings.
00:26:38 ►
In addition, there can be feelings of joy as we contact our true inter-center.
00:26:44 ►
can be feelings of joy as we contact our true inter-center. There can also be an enormous release of energy and well-being, as it takes a lot of energy
00:26:51 ►
to hold down miserable unconscious feelings.
00:26:56 ►
My own experience is that as you clear up repressed material, which provides great relief,
00:27:08 ►
material, but provides great relief, you then encounter deeper, more difficult layers. It can get so hurtful that many desire to go no further.
00:27:13 ►
On the other hand, complete freedom is won only by penetrating completely to the root
00:27:19 ►
of the discomfort.
00:27:20 ►
Fortunately, there are three powerful aids that can help gain resolution. The first is,
00:27:28 ►
as you sink deeper and deeper into your own inner self, you are encountering your true
00:27:36 ►
being. The joy this provides makes it easier to confront the painful material.
00:27:52 ►
Another help is suggested by Leo Zeff,
00:27:56 ►
one of the world’s outstanding psychedelic therapists,
00:27:59 ►
interviewed in my book, The Secret Chief Revealed.
00:28:03 ►
Leo tells us that if we can stop resisting and let go to the flow, the discomfort lessens,
00:28:09 ►
making it easier to reach complete release.
00:28:14 ►
This can end up with profound peace and joy.
00:28:20 ►
Third helpers achieved by accomplished meditators who learn to withdraw into their true center
00:28:27 ►
and from this viewpoint look out into the spaces where the painful material is present.
00:28:34 ►
In the comfort of the inner self, they can observe the uncomfortable material as being on the outside
00:28:41 ►
and consequently is not deeply felt.
00:28:44 ►
as being on the outside and consequently is not deeply felt.
00:28:52 ►
From this viewpoint, it is possible to identify the pain and find ways to resolve it.
00:29:05 ►
Each encounter with LSD or other similar useful substances, as created by Alexander Sheldon should be carefully reviewed.
00:29:09 ►
It is extremely important that valuable discoveries which have been revealed
00:29:13 ►
are immediately put into effect.
00:29:18 ►
Those who have available access to LSD, for example,
00:29:22 ►
often neglect taking this step. As if one falls
00:29:27 ►
back, it is easy to repeat the experience. I personally fell into this trap myself. As
00:29:34 ►
I failed to put indicated action into practice, I could feel myself regressing, and would
00:29:42 ►
consequently imbibe again. After a while, I felt this constant
00:29:47 ►
going up and down, very trying. It then became crystal clear that I was not using these valuable
00:29:55 ►
substances properly. It is essential to put into action what one has learned. Otherwise,
00:30:03 ►
our inner self can get discouraged
00:30:05 ►
and depression can follow.
00:30:12 ►
An excellent way to ensure
00:30:14 ►
that we take full advantage
00:30:15 ►
of what we learn
00:30:17 ►
is to develop a good meditation
00:30:20 ►
practice.
00:30:23 ►
Many people find it difficult to follow this approach as they are busy persons
00:30:29 ►
working for a living and in the beginning nothing the warning seems to happen or develop here is
00:30:36 ►
where intention comes to the picture the dedicated intention one sticks to the practice until results begin to occur.
00:30:48 ►
Having access to LSD at appropriate times can provide openings that considerably enhance this progress of mastering meditation.
00:31:05 ►
I think it is enormously worthwhile to find a good meditation teacher who is skilled enough to teach essential techniques
00:31:08 ►
and properly monitor your progress.
00:31:12 ►
Such a teacher will no doubt recommend important textbooks
00:31:17 ►
that will support you on your journey.
00:31:21 ►
Excellent advice can come from the books by the Dalai Lama,
00:31:27 ►
by Thak Nhat Hanh, Nima Chodron, Eckhart Tolle, and my own teacher, Alan Wallace. It is often difficult to get
00:31:37 ►
started with meditation, but once you begin to make contact with your deep self, you begin to feel more peaceful and
00:31:46 ►
that something worthwhile is happening.
00:31:50 ►
Staying with it, one begins to find deeper relaxation, then more mental stability, and
00:31:58 ►
finally clarity.
00:32:01 ►
As you increase your ability to hold your mind still, the door to the unconscious becomes
00:32:07 ►
more open and repressed material can surface, providing one full release.
00:32:14 ►
You then generate more energy, as it takes energy to hold down these repressions.
00:32:21 ►
If you earnestly pursue such a practice, you will find yourself developing calmness, which
00:32:28 ►
can progress to peace, then euphoria, and in due time, even ecstasy.
00:32:36 ►
All of this can, at appropriate times, enhance psychedelic explorations, which can further
00:32:44 ►
deepen your meditation practice.
00:32:49 ►
The more we progress, the more we learn to open up and resolve inappropriate material.
00:32:56 ►
In general, most of us don’t care for pain.
00:33:01 ►
But I’ve learned that pain is an excellent teacher.
00:33:05 ►
I’ll admit that this requires real intention.
00:33:10 ►
But one learns that the relief, freedom, and greater awareness makes one grateful for mustering the will which will bring such great relief. So I consider it very worthwhile to learn to sit with one’s pain
00:33:28 ►
and stay with it until the source rises to consciousness,
00:33:33 ►
which is a great revelation.
00:33:36 ►
Then it can be dealt with.
00:33:38 ►
This technique is well described in Chapter 6
00:33:42 ►
in Eckhart Tolle’s book, The Power of Now.
00:33:50 ►
One morning a couple of years ago, I was sitting on a sofa,
00:33:54 ►
letting my mind rest in its natural state,
00:33:57 ►
when I became aware of a great discomfort on my abdomen.
00:34:02 ►
In the past, I would have tried to draw away from this feeling,
00:34:06 ►
but now I needed to put my attention directly on it and hold my full attention there. All
00:34:13 ►
of a sudden, the sequence of events began to flow through me. The result was a much
00:34:19 ►
greater understanding of how things work. As the discomfort rose,
00:34:26 ►
I became agitated
00:34:27 ►
and began to look for the source of the misery.
00:34:31 ►
Then it struck me right between the eyes.
00:34:35 ►
My very clever ego
00:34:37 ►
began searching and searching
00:34:39 ►
to find the cause of the difficulty.
00:34:43 ►
But as soon as I did this, it became crystal clear.
00:34:47 ►
The ego was deliberately searching to find the cause of the discomfort. It
00:34:53 ►
seemed imperative to find someone or something on which to place the blame. Then with enormous impact, I realized that this creates further separation, which
00:35:10 ►
produces even more pain. Think about that very, very carefully, because that’s very
00:35:16 ►
true. That’s what happens to us. We want to look and find somebody’s house to place the blame, and you’ll never get free that way.
00:35:27 ►
And with an enormous impact, I realized that this created further separation, which produced even more pain.
00:35:36 ►
It became quite clear how much pain and suffering is being created around the world,
00:35:43 ►
particularly for those persons who feel their
00:35:45 ►
own God is the only true God, and it’s perfectly alright to kill those who support different
00:35:51 ►
religions.
00:35:53 ►
How is that for separation?
00:35:57 ►
Will there ever be any end to their agony, if they keep creating, more and more, the
00:36:04 ►
very cause of their own pain.
00:36:06 ►
For the truth is, we are all one.
00:36:11 ►
So when we separate ourselves, we break our connection.
00:36:16 ►
And breaking this connection results in pain, even if we are unwilling to acknowledge it.
00:36:28 ►
Recently, I was blessed to experience a further element to help open the doors of realization.
00:36:31 ►
My very good friend, Sasha Shulgin, in years past,
00:36:36 ►
observed me struggle through some of the uncomfortable situations
00:36:39 ►
I often found myself in.
00:36:42 ►
He would ask me,
00:36:43 ►
Are you above the line or below the line? Often I was too
00:36:48 ►
uncomfortable to reply to. I finally discovered that being above the line was a great deal more
00:36:55 ►
satisfying than being below the line. More important, I began to understand ways to stay there.
00:37:09 ►
ways to stay there. I spent quite a bit of time in meditation simply being still and observing.
00:37:17 ►
This has all been quite satisfying, but in some ways it seemed that there were things I was missing. Heavy feeling would return. The wonderful states of clarity would fade away.
00:37:27 ►
would return. The wonderful states of clarity would fade away. There seemed no way to maintain
00:37:36 ►
this above the line space. Then it came to me that I was not producing enough intention.
00:37:44 ►
It was important to focus more clearly, carefully avoiding grasping, but somehow applying purpose without strain.
00:37:48 ►
This is when the higher levels of consciousness begin to appear.
00:37:57 ►
Sitting on the deck of my house, looking up at the high mountains of this here Nevada,
00:38:03 ►
and looking above the mountaintops to the crystal clear blue of the sky, I was filled with the awe and beauty of that very alive heaven.
00:38:32 ►
It will expand and expand and expand, leading us to new heights, new realizations, new incredible bliss.
00:38:39 ►
It is patiently waiting, waiting for us to apply the necessary intention. Since 1965, I learned that psychedelic substances were the most powerful learning tools available
00:38:49 ►
to mankind. Complex, powerful, they’re easily misused and abused. Yet for the sincere seeker,
00:39:08 ►
Yet for the sincere seeker, armed with honesty, courage, and an unquenchable thirst for self-discovery,
00:39:18 ►
I know of no other beingness that can so readily provide self-understanding in the ultimate nature of reality,
00:39:26 ►
nor that can so readily reveal the sources of most of the difficulties of the human race and the most appropriate path to their resolution.
00:39:32 ►
Following are some of the points that I consider to be my most valuable learning experiences.
00:39:39 ►
There’s only seven left to go.
00:39:42 ►
One, many aspects of life expand as our consciousness expands. This includes
00:39:51 ►
improvement in communication and relationships, developing skills, sensory enhancement, free flow
00:40:00 ►
of thought, appreciation of nature, and growth in inner strength and well-being.
00:40:09 ►
- The source of life is utterly real.
00:40:15 ►
Those who have the strength and courage to explore this dimension
00:40:19 ►
will find an incomprehensible beauty almost beyond the strength of humans to behold.
00:40:31 ►
- The universe is created in inconceivable love,
00:40:36 ►
a vast, endless, timeless love that is in the heart of every living creature, that awaits within us, within each of us,
00:40:47 ►
to be discovered by those who earnestly seek it.
00:40:52 ►
We are truly all one when we are poor.
00:40:57 ►
Our brother’s welfare is our welfare.
00:41:02 ►
His or her pain is our pain. And there is no private salvation. The Buddhists
00:41:11 ►
are right. There is no way to advance spiritually without committing oneself to the happiness all living beings. Number five, intentionality is the bottom line. We act, create, accomplish,
00:41:33 ►
and love in accordance with the depth of our intention. Number six, the most glorious
00:41:43 ►
experience can fade away unless we take full responsibility for bringing it into realization in our lives.
00:41:53 ►
- Gratitude and appreciation are the stair steps to come.
00:42:17 ►
Do we want some questions?
00:42:17 ►
Anybody?
00:42:19 ►
Questions for the speakers?
00:42:23 ►
Are we done?
00:42:26 ►
We’re going to hear from Robert why don’t we do what we did last time
00:42:33 ►
and just fire away
00:42:35 ►
you know when I mentioned
00:42:38 ►
that thing about Dallas
00:42:39 ►
at the beginning
00:42:40 ►
Michael
00:42:41 ►
it reminded me of our conversation
00:42:43 ►
over here
00:42:44 ►
and maybe I made a
00:42:46 ►
presumption there about Dallas
00:42:48 ►
being
00:42:49 ►
kind of a dividing line between
00:42:52 ►
a counterculture and a culture
00:42:54 ►
that accepts a prevailing
00:42:57 ►
view of
00:42:58 ►
that event and certainly
00:42:59 ►
everything that
00:43:02 ►
followed. Mark, what do you think about that?
00:43:04 ►
I don’t get a chance to talk with you very much but that’s a topic everything that followed. Mark, what do you think about that?
00:43:06 ►
I don’t get a chance to talk with you very much.
00:43:09 ►
I think this is a topic that I was reflecting on.
00:43:11 ►
Why
00:43:11 ►
why it was so
00:43:15 ►
important
00:43:15 ►
to so many people
00:43:18 ►
to hold a particular
00:43:21 ►
theory about that event.
00:43:23 ►
And why none of the people I know who work directly for and with JFK believe any of that.
00:43:34 ►
Seems to me that what Myron was saying about people’s need to externalize their shadow
00:43:38 ►
had some resonance for thinking about that.
00:43:44 ►
So you think that is the externalization
00:43:46 ►
of the shadow among the
00:43:47 ►
conspiracy theorists who think that it was some?
00:43:53 ►
Right.
00:43:54 ►
Yeah.
00:43:55 ►
Because again, I don’t see the people who were
00:43:57 ►
most directly affected by it
00:43:59 ►
believing any of that.
00:44:02 ►
Yeah, which means it’s certainly true.
00:44:04 ►
I know. I know.’s just a certain issue.
00:44:08 ►
Anyway, I think
00:44:09 ►
that this is an issue that is both
00:44:12 ►
political and psychedelic having to
00:44:14 ►
do with
00:44:14 ►
how
00:44:17 ►
we construct and maintain
00:44:19 ►
our reality
00:44:20 ►
and a very important
00:44:23 ►
role that psychedelics have played in the world at this time.
00:44:29 ►
So you and I disagree about the Kennedy assassination.
00:44:34 ►
Can I just take a survey?
00:44:36 ►
How many people think that the Warren Commission is a fabrication?
00:44:44 ►
It was incompetent, at the very least. It’s a fabrication. It was incompetent, at the
00:44:46 ►
very least.
00:44:47 ►
That’s all. Can I see that again?
00:44:50 ►
Well,
00:44:51 ►
you said it right in the tweet.
00:44:53 ►
The fabrication that reports about 9-1-1
00:44:55 ►
are sort of the history of
00:44:57 ►
government.
00:44:59 ►
The continuous
00:45:00 ►
confusion about
00:45:05 ►
what’s going on
00:45:08 ►
in the country.
00:45:09 ►
The weapons of mass destruction
00:45:13 ►
is the same.
00:45:14 ►
Those things are all in the same category.
00:45:16 ►
I just want to try to say
00:45:17 ►
that there is more weapons of mass destruction.
00:45:20 ►
Yeah.
00:45:22 ►
See, I think this has
00:45:23 ►
very much to do with what Leary’s whole ministry was
00:45:27 ►
and his whole turn on, tune in, drop out
00:45:29 ►
there was a perception among these guys
00:45:32 ►
that we’re working together
00:45:34 ►
that the social reality that is
00:45:38 ►
put forth, legitimized and maintained
00:45:42 ►
in a very conscious way
00:45:46 ►
through propaganda techniques and so on,
00:45:50 ►
taking over publishing and universities and so forth,
00:45:56 ►
that they realized that this was not sustainable.
00:46:01 ►
And so advocated a movement,
00:46:03 ►
a turn-on- a drop-out movement
00:46:05 ►
to create a whole new social
00:46:08 ►
reality. And that was their
00:46:10 ►
psychedelic ministry.
00:46:13 ►
That offended
00:46:14 ►
certain people at the time
00:46:16 ►
who were in there and thought that they could
00:46:17 ►
actually work within
00:46:20 ►
these structures of society.
00:46:23 ►
Houston Smith and all
00:46:24 ►
the socks lady but that the
00:46:25 ►
Frank and content but no they want to just bust out and try to do it and again
00:46:31 ►
the premise of it is that these there’s a real diabolical nature of the of the
00:46:37 ►
fabricators of the social reality history of massive failure the whole history of Cobra from Iran to Iraq
00:46:49 ►
Vietnam I mean they have a like a 98% failure record for what they appear to want
00:46:58 ►
so what that was true they didn’t have the intended effect Well, I guess communism is not a central America.
00:47:07 ►
What?
00:47:08 ►
Like Che Guevara and Lula da Silva and Hugo Chavez?
00:47:11 ►
Yeah.
00:47:12 ►
Cut them right out.
00:47:13 ►
Oh, um, the groups are mounting it just like everywhere else.
00:47:14 ►
I don’t know how to penetrate this problem as a social scientist or as a political scientist.
00:47:15 ►
I think it’s a good question.
00:47:16 ►
I think it’s a good question.
00:47:17 ►
I think it’s a good question.
00:47:18 ►
I think it’s a good question.
00:47:19 ►
I think it’s a good question.
00:47:20 ►
I think it’s a good question.
00:47:21 ►
I think it’s a good question.
00:47:22 ►
I think it’s a good question.
00:47:23 ►
I think it’s a good question.
00:47:24 ►
I think it’s a good question. I think it’s a good question. I think it’s a good question. I think it’s a good question. I think it’s a good question. I don’t know how to penetrate this problem as a social scientist or as a psychedelic activist,
00:47:31 ►
but it’s very much on my mind.
00:47:32 ►
You know, Congress, to get back to this disagreement we have about the event, say, in Dallas,
00:47:39 ►
which to me is such a crucial event, such a crucial event,
00:47:51 ►
me is that it’s such a crucial event, because immediately this new reality was created.
00:48:00 ►
And I believe, and Congress believes, after the 1978 or 79 Select Committee on Assassinations,
00:48:04 ►
that the Warren Commission was probably not right, that no problem was a conspiracy.
00:48:10 ►
Just that admission by the Congress, you know, that’s huge.
00:48:11 ►
That’s a huge thing.
00:48:23 ►
Well, it’s not a huge thing that is of any value in recapturing the country from the current ruling oligarchy.
00:48:27 ►
That’s what Michael Lerner said last night.
00:48:27 ►
Huh?
00:48:29 ►
That’s what Michael Lerner said last night.
00:48:31 ►
I don’t agree with that.
00:48:32 ►
What is Michael Lerner’s opinion?
00:48:35 ►
He agreed with Mark, but that’s Tom’s.
00:48:40 ►
I think the event itself is irrelevant.
00:48:43 ►
I mean, what head of state has changed anything as long as there’s been American heads of state? But the way it happened, I mean, for everybody who doesn’t, people
00:48:51 ►
here actually think Oswald, acting alone, shot Kennedy with a lucky shot. So somebody
00:48:58 ►
killed him. And anybody that could kill him in Dallas could have killed him in his sleep.
00:49:04 ►
You know, he could have been killed quietly and explained.
00:49:07 ►
The fact that it was done in broad daylight with pictures and witnesses,
00:49:11 ►
and then they said, no, what you saw didn’t happen.
00:49:16 ►
This happened because we investigated.
00:49:18 ►
That’s the same thing that happened on 9-11.
00:49:20 ►
That’s the social condition.
00:49:23 ►
They said, you will not believe your own eyes.
00:49:25 ►
So in your fantasy, what happened on 9-11?
00:49:28 ►
On 9-11, I think
00:49:29 ►
demolition charges
00:49:32 ►
inside the towers bloomed up.
00:49:33 ►
Right.
00:49:36 ►
I think we’re a long way
00:49:39 ►
from that.
00:49:41 ►
But you know what?
00:49:42 ►
Well, you know,
00:49:43 ►
all of that keeps you from resting.
00:49:45 ►
Let me just say a few more words.
00:49:48 ►
You know, we all have beliefs.
00:49:50 ►
We all have things that we invest in and care about.
00:49:55 ►
But what I’m talking about is that there is a level that’s absolutely pure and is absolutely real.
00:50:03 ►
And what we want to do is to find a way to reach that level.
00:50:08 ►
And that level is pure clarity.
00:50:11 ►
If you get deeply into it, it’s pure bliss.
00:50:14 ►
Now, all these other things that you’ve been talking after I finished talking,
00:50:19 ►
these are things that people talk about.
00:50:24 ►
They’re not really searching for the real depth of their own real self.
00:50:29 ►
And this is what I’m hoping and trying to make clear,
00:50:33 ►
that it’s in every one of us, at the core of our being.
00:50:39 ►
But most of us don’t know it’s there.
00:50:42 ►
We can’t feel it.
00:50:43 ►
We don’t know how it works because we’re busy talking.
00:50:46 ►
We’re busy doing this. How does
00:50:47 ►
this guy do it? Do we like him
00:50:50 ►
or don’t we? And all this crap
00:50:52 ►
goes on and you don’t
00:50:54 ►
get in and reach
00:50:56 ►
the core of your own being.
00:50:58 ►
And that’s the
00:51:00 ►
only thing that counts ultimately.
00:51:02 ►
Can I say something?
00:51:03 ►
This is why I brought this up.
00:51:05 ►
It seems to me that once
00:51:08 ►
one does activate that
00:51:10 ►
core of their being,
00:51:11 ►
there is a tremendous social
00:51:14 ►
responsibility. Oh, absolutely.
00:51:16 ►
And so to me, what I’m
00:51:18 ►
currently obsessed with is this thing
00:51:20 ►
that I’m bringing up that I think was
00:51:21 ►
quite dreary and barren
00:51:23 ►
popular movement
00:51:26 ►
with psychedelic drugs that there was
00:51:28 ►
a terrific sense that
00:51:30 ►
something was gravely wrong
00:51:32 ►
in the whole political
00:51:34 ►
structure and social
00:51:36 ►
structure in the 1960s
00:51:38 ►
coming out of the 1950s, growing
00:51:40 ►
fascism, authoritarianism, and stuff
00:51:42 ►
I talked about last time.
00:51:44 ►
And that I was just last time. And that
00:51:45 ►
and then I was just
00:51:47 ►
bringing it back to that, like the Kennedy assassination
00:51:49 ►
seems to be
00:51:50 ►
this is a
00:51:52 ►
to understand that
00:51:55 ►
and the effects that follow
00:51:57 ►
seems to be at the very core
00:51:59 ►
of political science these days.
00:52:01 ►
I’m not alone in this.
00:52:03 ►
I think another way to
00:52:06 ►
translate what Myron’s saying
00:52:08 ►
because
00:52:10 ►
we get into all
00:52:12 ►
these side issues. If we
00:52:14 ►
were living in Iraq right now,
00:52:16 ►
we’d be talking about the government there
00:52:17 ►
probably instead and all those things.
00:52:20 ►
But there’s this saying
00:52:22 ►
that locals always survive
00:52:24 ►
empires. And rather than get spun into all
00:52:27 ►
of the drama of the empire myron’s suggesting getting really local personally local and then
00:52:33 ►
getting local with your family and getting local with yourself and letting this empire wash over
00:52:39 ►
because it’s going to wash through like the rest of you i i that’s i don’t i don’t mean to put
00:52:44 ►
words in your mouth but sort of detection the rest of humanity. I don’t mean to put words in your mouth, but sort of to attach it.
00:52:46 ►
The distraction of talking about these things
00:52:48 ►
is keeping us from looking inside ourselves
00:52:50 ►
and from our source in that.
00:52:52 ►
You know, we’re so busy blaming this and that
00:52:55 ►
instead of looking into ourselves
00:52:57 ►
and finding out our true self and our source and our power.
00:53:01 ►
This is, again, a conversation that came up in the 60s,
00:53:04 ►
you know, between the kind of
00:53:06 ►
flower power of people turning on
00:53:08 ►
versus…
00:53:09 ►
I flew with Angela Davis once
00:53:12 ►
from New York to Chicago, and she
00:53:13 ►
was so down on the
00:53:15 ►
psychedelics of the 60s
00:53:17 ►
for precisely that reason. What she
00:53:20 ►
felt that society needed
00:53:22 ►
was, you know, an astute political
00:53:24 ►
organization.
00:53:27 ►
And Tim and everybody was saying, no, just contemplate, you know, contemplate this.
00:53:31 ►
Pardon me.
00:53:32 ►
Well, I would say at least it’s, you know, concerned about something that’s important
00:53:36 ►
instead of wondering what kind of dog Paris Hilton’s carrying this week.
00:53:40 ►
You know.
00:53:41 ►
That’s important.
00:53:42 ►
That there, there seems to be, you know, the crazier things get, there seems to be more and more
00:53:48 ►
obsession with, you know, ever more trivial matters of, you know, just gossip.
00:53:53 ►
Yeah, I don’t think it has to be one or the other.
00:53:56 ►
I mean, what I hear is deep social change will occur when there’s deep individual change.
00:54:02 ►
Right.
00:54:03 ►
And, however…
00:54:04 ►
Absolutely not. and there’s deep individual change. Right. However, while seeking deep individual change,
00:54:08 ►
there’s no reason why we can’t focus on social change as well.
00:54:13 ►
You know, I don’t think it has to be.
00:54:14 ►
It’s a responsibility of that change.
00:54:16 ►
Exactly.
00:54:17 ►
So I don’t really think it’s one thing or the other.
00:54:21 ►
I think it’s both.
00:54:22 ►
And also something that people who have evolved
00:54:25 ►
in that work don’t impose on the people you know that it’s a personal decision
00:54:31 ►
but you’re saying you’re attributing to Leary a political motive that I’m not
00:54:40 ►
sure everybody in the world agrees with it seems to be saying that it was some sort of
00:54:46 ►
attempt to fight against the establishment in some way.
00:54:51 ►
Yeah, very explicitly so.
00:54:52 ►
How so? What way is this amazing?
00:54:56 ►
Well, it’s just, I mean, from his whole,
00:54:59 ►
and I answer the question,
00:55:00 ►
the psychodynamic issue from the very beginning
00:55:02 ►
is the battle of the father.
00:55:04 ►
That’s one way to answer the question.
00:55:05 ►
But then, once he became a graduate student,
00:55:09 ►
and thought of ways that he would apply his understanding of psychology
00:55:13 ►
to either clinical issues or to social problems,
00:55:17 ►
you know, he began, like his first body of research he did in psychotherapy
00:55:23 ►
was to show that psychotherapy worked as well if you took
00:55:29 ►
the psychotherapist out of it and just sort of let people interact among themselves and they
00:55:35 ►
and they kind of generalize this sort of finding he and Frank know who’s best friend my teacher
00:55:41 ►
and friend for a long time they thought of okay so we can generalize this kind of thing.
00:55:46 ►
What they see going on
00:55:48 ►
in the larger social body
00:55:50 ►
in politics was, again, this kind
00:55:52 ►
of authoritarian thing. Everybody’s in
00:55:54 ►
their roles and so
00:55:56 ►
forth. And this is why
00:55:58 ►
people in universities hate him.
00:56:00 ►
Hated him and still hate him.
00:56:02 ►
Because he challenged that whole very
00:56:04 ►
structure of the
00:56:05 ►
person who’s the authority. He’s the authority.
00:56:08 ►
He showed that it didn’t really work
00:56:09 ►
to his satisfaction.
00:56:11 ►
And wanted to change
00:56:14 ►
the whole dynamic,
00:56:16 ►
the whole structure of society.
00:56:18 ►
In education, in politics,
00:56:20 ►
in everything.
00:56:21 ►
And he thought that
00:56:23 ►
LSD,
00:56:25 ►
mushroom psychedelics, were this
00:56:27 ►
de-authoritizing
00:56:29 ►
agent, if you will, right?
00:56:32 ►
It depends on how you use it.
00:56:34 ►
Certainly does
00:56:35 ►
depend on how you use it.
00:56:37 ►
During your time in Boston, did you have
00:56:39 ►
an opportunity to talk to very many people
00:56:41 ►
about what motivated them to make
00:56:43 ►
that pilgrimage there?
00:56:45 ►
Why were people there?
00:56:46 ►
Was there any common themes, or was it just sort of individuals themselves?
00:56:51 ►
Yeah, that’s a good question.
00:56:53 ►
I think that there was this…
00:56:56 ►
I thought I was showing that in that last video with the people there.
00:57:00 ►
There was something…
00:57:01 ►
We’re all so awed by our experiences. There’s one thing in common
00:57:06 ►
about the psychedelic
00:57:08 ►
mystery, or all religious
00:57:09 ►
is the sense of awe.
00:57:12 ►
And even if someone was
00:57:13 ►
like a crazed acid
00:57:15 ►
freak or a scientist, they still
00:57:17 ►
had this kind of awe.
00:57:20 ►
Unknowing.
00:57:21 ►
Not unknowing, but awe.
00:57:24 ►
But no, I didn’t really ask
00:57:26 ►
people to explicitly do that.
00:57:29 ►
But it was like a big
00:57:29 ►
tribal gathering, wasn’t it?
00:57:31 ►
We all had something in common.
00:57:34 ►
We talked more about
00:57:35 ►
Albert and what he was
00:57:37 ►
saying, how he felt.
00:57:40 ►
He was so beautiful.
00:57:41 ►
He was so vigorous.
00:57:44 ►
So
00:57:44 ►
in that moment of receiving the adulation of all those people for this one moment.
00:57:56 ►
I expected to see a 100-year-old man.
00:57:59 ►
He got up and he said,
00:58:07 ►
Thank you, N he was so there, he was so present, he was so moving to me, I thought.
00:58:17 ►
I think it might pay to go back to what he has told us in many ways in many of his writings.
00:58:26 ►
But you know, when he was young, he was so close to nature.
00:58:30 ►
He was very, very open.
00:58:34 ►
He was a very unusual person compared to the rest of us.
00:58:38 ►
And this led to the work that he did as a chemist, and it finally opened the door to LSD.
00:58:49 ►
When he finally discovered LSD, he realized that this was reinforcing what he’d experienced as a youngster.
00:58:58 ►
He is a truly spiritual person, and I think that has made a profound contribution
00:59:07 ►
in his work and development and everything he’s accomplished.
00:59:13 ►
Did he make any political comments or have any advice to give from his 100 years experience?
00:59:41 ►
hundred years it’s um if you don’t mind I’m beginning a study of this thing I’d like to the bottom with you about this. I have a feeling there’s some material you haven’t
00:59:45 ►
looked at yet.
00:59:47 ►
Oh, I have my own theory about
00:59:49 ►
what happened in 1963.
00:59:52 ►
Yeah.
00:59:53 ►
I’m virtually certain I know who did it.
00:59:56 ►
Do you mind sharing that?
00:59:58 ►
I was going to pull the trigger, didn’t I?
00:59:59 ►
I will pull the trigger. The interesting thing is
01:00:01 ►
not killing Kennedy, as you point out,
01:00:03 ►
Kennedy’s not hard to kill.
01:00:06 ►
The hard thing to do was to kill Oswald.
01:00:10 ►
The hard thing to do was to kill Oswald.
01:00:14 ►
And
01:00:14 ►
the interesting figure there is Ruby, not Oswald.
01:00:19 ►
Because that’s what you have to do
01:00:21 ►
after you kill a leader, you have to make sure
01:00:22 ►
you don’t get caught, which means you have to kill the trigger man.
01:00:26 ►
So who had the capacity
01:00:27 ►
to get somebody
01:00:29 ►
into that police station?
01:00:32 ►
Who had a strong motivation
01:00:34 ►
to kill Kennedy?
01:00:37 ►
And
01:00:37 ►
who staffed a Warren Commission report
01:00:39 ►
and therefore had an opportunity to run the cover-up?
01:00:42 ►
No.
01:00:42 ►
No.
01:00:44 ►
No.
01:00:46 ►
No.
01:00:47 ►
The staff of the Warren Commission was drawn from the FBI.
01:00:51 ►
And unlike the CIA,
01:00:53 ►
which was broken up substantially in 74, right?
01:00:57 ►
There were a lot of CIA guys
01:00:58 ►
who got driven out into the cold.
01:01:00 ►
Somebody would have talked.
01:01:01 ►
The Bureau was never denazified.
01:01:05 ►
So it seems to me
01:01:06 ►
Hoover had motive,
01:01:07 ►
means, and opportunity.
01:01:08 ►
We know things he did
01:01:09 ►
that were at least
01:01:10 ►
that obscene.
01:01:12 ►
It all makes perfect sense.
01:01:13 ►
And yeah,
01:01:14 ►
it would have been nice
01:01:15 ►
if that had come out.
01:01:16 ►
But in fact,
01:01:16 ►
as I say,
01:01:17 ►
we already know plenty
01:01:18 ►
about the Bureau
01:01:19 ►
to fuel hostility
01:01:20 ►
to it without
01:01:21 ►
pinning the Kennedy assassination.
01:01:23 ►
I mean, I’d love to do it.
01:01:24 ►
But like, you know, get over it. I’m worried about Paul Roe and George Bush, not
01:01:33 ►
J. Cooper. J. Cooper’s fucking dead.
01:01:35 ►
Right, right.
01:01:36 ►
And they’re thinking about changing the federal building’s name.
01:01:39 ►
The FBI, the Cooper building’s name, yeah.
01:01:41 ►
Yeah.
01:01:42 ►
Really?
01:01:42 ►
Yeah.
01:01:43 ►
Yeah.
01:01:45 ►
I’d rather you not… Yeah. I’d rather not
01:01:47 ►
change the name of the building.
01:01:51 ►
But history has discredited
01:01:53 ►
him to this point.
01:01:54 ►
And will continue to, I’m sure.
01:01:58 ►
So,
01:01:59 ►
any more questions?
01:02:03 ►
Yep.
01:02:04 ►
You all, stick around.
01:02:11 ►
You’re listening to The Psychedelic Salon,
01:02:13 ►
where people are changing their lives one thought at a time.
01:02:17 ►
Well, now you know what a typical salon was like at Kathleen’s in Venice Beach
01:02:22 ►
during the eight-plus years when she hosted
01:02:25 ►
a monthly potluck dinner for the Albert Hoffman Foundation. Until I previewed this tape the other
01:02:31 ►
day, I had completely forgotten about how it ended with the discussion of the Kennedy murder and the
01:02:37 ►
follow-up about the hit on Oswald. What I didn’t bring up that evening, though, is a phone call
01:02:43 ►
that I received an hour or so after Oswald was murdered by Jack Ruby.
01:02:47 ►
I was in my final year at the University of Notre Dame at the time, and on the other end of the phone was my mentor, Ray Bell, who was calling from his home in Texas.
01:02:57 ►
Now, I’ll make this short, but since one of the main reasons that I’m doing these podcasts is so that my grandchildren are going to be able to
01:03:05 ►
hear a few of my stories once they’re old enough. And of course, by then I’m either going to be
01:03:09 ►
dead and gone or can no longer remember them, both of which probably will most likely take
01:03:15 ►
place long before I’m ready. Anyway, getting back to my phone call from Texas, I already knew quite
01:03:21 ►
a bit about Jack Ruby because both Ray and his wife had worked for him
01:03:25 ►
just after World War II. They handled the photo concession at the clubs that Jack was managing at
01:03:31 ►
the time, and they knew him quite well and had told me quite a number of stories about the wild
01:03:36 ►
times they had in Dallas just after the war. But what Ray was calling to tell me on that November
01:03:42 ►
morning was that I should never, as in never, believe that Jack Ruby killed Oswald for any reason other than that his mob bosses had ordered him to.
01:03:53 ►
I could go on, but this really isn’t the place for it.
01:03:56 ►
However, if you’re interested in this story, one of the places to not miss is a series of YouTube video interviews with the woman who, at the time of the Kennedy
01:04:06 ►
murder, was Lyndon Johnson’s mistress. And two of the names that you’ll hear her mention as to
01:04:12 ►
having been at that infamous party in Dallas on the night before the assassination, well, two of
01:04:18 ►
the people who were in that room together were good old cross-dressing J. Edgar Hoover and none
01:04:23 ►
other than Jack Ruby.
01:04:30 ►
There’s obviously a lot more to the story, but that’s all I want to say about it.
01:04:34 ►
So you’re on your own now if you’re interested in these never-to-be-answered questions.
01:04:38 ►
Now getting back to the recording that we just listened to,
01:04:43 ►
I was interested in hearing once again Robert Forte’s comments about Dallas, Texas being a dividing line between the culture and the counterculture.
01:04:48 ►
And you know what he’s talking about if you’ve seen the documentary titled
01:04:52 ►
Confessions of an Ecstasy Advocate,
01:04:54 ►
in which I tell some of the stories about the time during which MDMA, or ecstasy,
01:04:59 ►
left the healing couches of the West Coast
01:05:02 ►
and first hit the streets in a big way in Dallas, Texas of all places.
01:05:06 ►
It was a strange time and a strange place.
01:05:10 ►
And I’ve posted a link to that documentary at the top of our Program Notes blog if you’re interested.
01:05:15 ►
And as you know, you can get there via www.psychedelicsalon.us.
01:05:22 ►
Now, for just a second here, I don’t want you to take me literally.
01:05:27 ►
Instead, just think of this as a fable. But isn’t it interesting that Dallas, the city in which many
01:05:33 ►
people think was the site of the loss of innocence for the baby boomers due to the assassination of
01:05:39 ►
Kennedy, well, this is the same city in which MDMA first reached the masses. I can just see the movie title now, How the Love Drug Healed Dallas.
01:05:49 ►
In a way, it’s almost as if the spirit of Dallas was trying to mend its karma for the Kennedy crime.
01:05:56 ►
In fact, I’m going to sign off for now and give that some more thought myself.
01:06:01 ►
Of all the places for MDMA to hit the streets, well, Dallas is probably the
01:06:05 ►
most unlikely. Yet, thanks to a chance encounter between Timothy Leary and a middle-aged salesman
01:06:12 ►
from Dallas, ecstasy left the safe confines of the West Coast therapists and landed on the dance
01:06:18 ►
floor at the Stark Club. For some of us, life would never again be the same. And for now, this is Lorenzo signing off from Cyberdelic Space.
01:06:28 ►
Be well, my friends.