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098 - Psychedelic Research in the 1960s (Part 2)

Jun 20, 2007, 59 min read

Program Notes

Guest speaker: Gary Fisher

(Minutes : Seconds into program)
04:20 Gary tells about his encounter with an extraterrestrial.

07:11 Stories of another encounter with otherworldly entities, this time in the desert.

09:40 The story about a man who always longed for a UFO experience.

11:36 Gary tells why he thinks extraterrestrials are visiting the Earth.

14:33 Gary tells the story of when Timothy Leary was driving him to their compound in Mexico, and Gary suddenly had an intuition that reflected back to both a psilocybin experience and a past life experience.

17:07 Gary Fisher: “In the esoteric world those are called ’sleeping karmas’, and you’ll run into a person who’s happy all the time, everything goes well for them. They don’t have any hysterics in their life, and they’re having sleeping karma. They just come in to relax.”

18:15 Gary tells the story of his Caribbean adventure with Tim Leary and company.

26:55 Beginning of a discussion about Alan Watts and the time he went to Mexico for a psychedelic mushroom session with Maria Sabina and ended up getting married to Mary Jane on the spur of the moment.

29:46 Gary Fisher: “At one dinner this very proper lady said, ‘Well Doctor Watts, what do you hope to gain from your next experience with LSD?’, and Alan said, ‘Another book!’ ”

35:29 We begin a brief discussion of Tim Leary… . Gary Fisher: “Well, he was a drunken Irishman with a silver tongue… . He wanted to be rich, and he wanted to be famous. Those were his two goals in life.”

44:26 Gary discusses several issues relating to the age at which it may be appropriate to begin using psychedelics.

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097 - Psychedelic Research in the 1960s (Part 1)

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099 - Controlling The Culture (Part 1)

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Transcript

00:00:00 ►

Greetings from Cyberdelic Space.

00:00:20 ►

This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.

00:00:24 ►

Cyberdelic Space. This is Lorenzo and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.

00:00:31 ►

Well today I’m going to play a continuation of the conversation I had with psychedelic pioneer Gary Fisher that I began in last week’s program. So I’ll dispense with the long introduction that

00:00:38 ►

I gave Gary last week and let you refer back to that program to hear a few highlights of his

00:00:43 ►

impressive career,

00:00:48 ►

and we’ll just get right to the rest of our conversation today.

00:00:51 ►

Now, in the first part of today’s conversation, you’re going to hear Gary tell about two encounters he’s had

00:00:54 ►

with what surely sounds to me like extraterrestrials.

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And what’s so striking to me about these two stories

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is the fact that it’s Gary Fisher, Ph.D.,

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who is a sober, highly

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intelligent scientist and one who I greatly admire. And it was only after I’d known Gary for several

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years that he first told me any of these stories, and they still stop me right in my tracks.

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If you think back to a few podcasts ago, you might remember that Terence McKenna was saying that

00:01:24 ►

whenever he was confronted

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with stories like this, the first thing he did was to take a close look at the person telling

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the story. And then, of course, he went on to tell his own story about a close encounter he had with

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an alien spaceship. But with Gary, my take on this whole area of inquiry has changed. I only know

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Gary, my take on this whole area of inquiry has changed.

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I only know very few rare individuals who even come close to Gary in terms of intelligence, experience, and just plain old common sense.

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So when he started talking about having an encounter with some form of intelligence that most likely is not of Earth origin,

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well, I pay very close attention.

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And in fact, his stories have done much to help me keep my mind open when it comes to things like this.

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To be honest, I’m not really sure what to think.

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I can say for sure that there was no hint of a prank in Gary’s eyes as he told about

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these encounters, so I believe him completely.

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But I’ve got the advantage of knowing and respecting Gary for a long time.

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So you’ll have to be your own judge of these things.

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But I do think it wise to keep your mind as open as you can when you encounter stories like this.

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But first we’ll pick up kind of in the middle of a story Gary was telling about himself.

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And it was a time when he had taken a very large dose of LSD,

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and he had one of those aha moments

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where he asked his sitter to write down a very important thought.

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Let’s listen.

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So finally I said to him, Bob, come here.

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And so he came over and said, what?

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I said, write this down.

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It’s extremely important.

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He went, oh, okay.

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He was sitting for you?

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Yeah, he was sitting for me.

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Because the sitters never took anything.

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And so I said, Gary, I said,

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never take any of this shit again as long as you live.

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That’s your note to yourself.

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That was a note to myself.

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And he started to laugh.

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And he laughed and he was rolling on the floor laughing.

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And I thought, what the fuck’s funny about that?

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And then I got it.

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So I started laughing and I laughed for forever, you know.

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It was like, don’t ever do this again.

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I think we’ve all probably been there. We’ve done it more than twice.

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Now she’s still living alone? Yeah.

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She’s still living alone? Yeah.

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And she’s 95?

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In that big old house.

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You used to live close to her, didn’t you?

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You knew Aldis.

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Oh, yeah.

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So you went to dinner and all that.

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Any good stories from that?

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No.

00:04:21 ►

What I did want to tell you was that when I,

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there’s a psychiatrist by the name of John Rosen,

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and his book is called Direct Analysis.

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And he used to get right in there with patients.

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Amazing man, fearless, totally fearless.

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Well, I went to see him work with a patient in Scottsdale one time.

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And so how I got to visit these other people,

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I don’t have the memory of how that connection happened.

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But these people were testing Edgar Cayce’s stuff.

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Do you know Edgar Cayce?

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Oh, sure, yeah.

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Okay.

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And because Charlie looked on the Internet and said that Edgar Cayce? Oh, sure, yeah. Okay. And because Charlie looked on the Internet

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and said that Edgar Cayce doesn’t have anything to say about aneurysms.

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And so I was very interested in them,

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and they lived in an old Spanish house.

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And so, you know, we were sort of chatting.

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There were a number of people there.

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And so there was one guy that I kept looking at.

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And there was something about him that just wasn’t right.

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And there was something amiss.

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So finally I went out on the patio

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because I could never talk to him alone.

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So I went out in the patio.

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This is at Laura’s house?

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No, at the husband and wife who are studying casing stuff in Scottsdale.

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And so I went out and he came out.

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And the first thing I said, which I didn’t realize I was going to say it,

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I said, you’re not from this planet, are you?

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And he said, well, how do you know?

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And I said, well, I can just tell.

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You’re not quite put together physically right.

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And he said, well, nobody ever picks it up.

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He says, you’re the first person who’s ever picked it up.

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And I said, you come from Southern.

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I’m getting chills up my spine now.

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And so I said, well, you come from some other planet.

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He said, yeah, we came on a mother ship

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and then you’re taken down

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and you’re given a, quote, physical body

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so that you can go amongst people

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who are studying interesting things.

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And that’s why he was finding out about Casey

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and all the work they were doing.

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So we talked for at least 40 minutes.

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And that was one of the first time,

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the only time I ever met a person

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that I immediately knew was not of this planet.

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You just had that sensation.

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And he confirmed it, interestingly.

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The other time when I was out in the desert

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and I had gotten telepathic communication

00:07:21 ►

to keep going on this trail towards 29 Palms, which I did.

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And then the car turned over on the side of the road automatically, so I parked there,

00:07:33 ►

got out, crossed over, and started walking.

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It was getting hot, and so I was uncomfortable. So I sat down under a tree

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and all of a sudden I got up

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and I got a message.

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We didn’t tell you to sit down.

00:07:51 ►

We told you to keep on going.

00:07:53 ►

So my legs just was going, you know,

00:07:55 ►

so I was going with it.

00:07:57 ►

And so I could see this thing coming out of the horizon

00:07:59 ►

and it was a light

00:08:02 ►

and it would come like this

00:08:04 ►

and then it would stop

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and then there were jets from Edwards Air Force Base that you would see that was coming out

00:08:14 ►

and this thing would just stay and hover in mid-air.

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Like a light bulb kind of thing?

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Yeah, just like a light and they would come close and then all of a sudden the thing would disappear

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and appear somewhere without going there.

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And so then the jets would start approaching them,

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and it would move again,

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and then I got the telepathic communication,

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well, we’re having interference with these jets today,

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so we can’t land for you today.

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So you had essentially a close encounter,

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and it was almost really close.

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Now, an experience like that,

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I totally decided long ago to keep my mind wide open to these things

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because I look at us as like fish

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that don’t know what water is

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or birds that don’t know what air is.

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We’ve discovered that

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we’re swimming in 90% of this universe

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is dark energy.

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We’re swimming in something

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and we don’t know what’s going on.

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So I’ve decided that

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I have to admit that I don’t know

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about these things. I’ve never had this kind of an encounter but I have to admit that I don’t know about these things.

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And I’ve never had this kind of an encounter,

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but I have talked to other people who have, and they seem very real.

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Of course, what activated that memory was you’re talking about UFOs and so forth.

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Sometimes very funny stories.

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This one guy always wanted to have an experience with a UFO.

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He lived out in the desert, out in the low desert.

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He was always very interested in that.

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Finally one night, the TV kept going off.

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And so we’d turn it on and it would go off.

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And then the lights would go on and off and so forth.

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So he thought, what on earth is going on?

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So he checked his electrical box and so forth and nothing happened.

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And all of a sudden, there was this light,

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intense light above his house.

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And so he went right over to the window

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and the spaceship was landing in his house. And so he went right over to the window and the spaceship was landing in his

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yard. And so he ran and got under the bed and said, God, I’ll never ask to see another

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spaceship as long as I live. If you’ll have it, just go away. My kids love that story

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because they laugh and giggle.

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Well, that sounds like me.

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I heard Terrence McKenna tell a story one time

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and he had gotten,

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by the time I got to go to his workshops,

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he’d been through the UFO thing

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where he’d been following them

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and then he decided that they’re all hoax

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and he was into this, well

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check the person that’s telling the story

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and he went into this whole thing, well there are people

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women in trailer parks who watch

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daytime TV

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and then he goes through this whole thing

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and he gets down to the end and he says, but you know

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the UFO that I saw parked

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in La Torera when we were down there

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he said, now that one was real.

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So, you know,

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do you have any clue

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of what you think they’d be doing?

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I mean, why would extraterrestrials come down there?

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Well, I asked this guy that question.

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Of course, I said,

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well, why are extraterrestrials

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investigating the planet?

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He said, well, we’re trying to find people

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who have advanced brain development,

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who can sense different things.

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And he says, well, you’re one of them

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and you’re one of these new generation of people.

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And he said, we are looking for people like that to see if there’s enough people like that in any one particular place about where there are a number of these sightings and this whole group of people that were living down there.

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But that’s been years ago.

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I don’t remember the detail.

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I’ve heard about the South American.

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Good.

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That within the last few years,

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there’s rumors of some caves that have something.

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So those stories are still current.

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Now, I would assume they’d have to come in as infants

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and grow their bodies.

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They couldn’t come in fully developed.

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So they’d have to go through childhood and everything.

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No, they can come in and then they take on human form.

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Is that like a walk-in that they talk about?

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Or can they just materialize in human form?

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They can materialize in human form.

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That’s what this guy did.

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He just materialized.

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You know that ten years ago,

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I probably wouldn’t have had this discussion

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because I was much more of an engineer

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than in my head.

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But I think one of my big

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aha moments in my life

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about thinking about the beyond

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actually came

00:13:32 ►

a story that you told

00:13:35 ►

when we were riding up

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to Kathleen’s salon one time.

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And you told about

00:13:40 ►

when you flew to Mexico

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and Tim Leary picked you up

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and you’re driving down

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and you stopped.

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I’ll have you tell the story

00:13:50 ►

so that now I’ve prepped it

00:13:52 ►

so everybody’s going to want to hear it.

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But the reason that struck me so forcefully

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is that up until that moment,

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I had you pegged as a hard-nosed scientist,

00:14:01 ►

materialist, rationalist, reductionist.

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Because, I mean, you work in that field.

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You don’t let me get away with much bullshit.

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I mean, you humor me some.

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But that was such a disconnect for me,

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to hear somebody whose mind I respected to talk about reincarnation.

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And that’s when I started really tuning in to my own form.

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But the story, story I thought was spectacular

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and I’ve been longing

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for a lifetime like that one that you had

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on the beach there

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yeah going my body

00:14:34 ►

all started

00:14:36 ►

responding first

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in the jeep and I was in the back

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seat and all this tingling

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that was going on

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and my body was just like it was just like on fire

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so I yelled at him to stop and so he stopped because he had come in with the jeep to pick

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us up and so I jumped out of the jeep and started taking you know my clothes off and ran to the

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beach looked down at the beach and that was exact space that I had been two years before in a

00:15:05 ►

psilocybin session and I had been a fisherman there and I had the most

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idyllic life you can imagine it was just wonderful I fished I ate fruit I did

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nothing enjoyed the Sun I mean head was empty. You know, it was wonderful.

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And then during the session,

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this was with Soul Simon,

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during the session,

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then this energy came and started pulling me away.

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And I kept saying,

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no, no, no, I don’t want to leave.

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I want to stay here.

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I want to stay here forever.

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So it came a second time.

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And the third time,

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it just came and shook the shit out of me. So I said, I’m coming, I’m coming, so I went on. But that was all in Zewatanejo. And two years later, that was the place that I had

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been a fisherman.

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The same vision, the same images that we’d seen in Silsagun.

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Absolutely. Absolutely.

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Some sort of foreshadowing.

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In a movie, that would be foreshadowing, I guess.

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In a life, it is.

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Another thing,

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Mary C. and I have these conversations because I keep saying,

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you know, I really hope there is no

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afterlife. I’m just tired of being aware.

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I want to sleep for

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three or four

00:16:25 ►

uh billion years hundred billion years you know but uh i get tired of being aware and she just

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laughs and said well you can’t get out of it and uh you at one time i i uh you mentioned uh

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you said oh i can remember my incarnations back to a single celled organism i asked you what it

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was like and you said well boring but it doesn’t sound like the life on the beach was boring,

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even though it wasn’t a life of fun.

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Oh, I know. It was wonderful.

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It was just this wonderful, warm, sunny, gorgeous water.

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Eat fish and fruit.

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And basically don’t do anything.

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So is that what really we humans should be doing, just enjoying the…

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Well, those are called, you know,

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in the esoteric world,

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those are called sleeping karmas.

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And you’ll run into people.

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And it’s a person who’s happy all the time.

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Everything goes well for them.

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They don’t have any hysterics in their life.

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And they’re having sleeping karmas.

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They just come in,

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ah, relax.

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Wow.

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Maybe the next one we can do this together.

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I’m all for a little sleeping karma today.

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So, I know you don’t really like talking about your days with Tim Leary,

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so I won’t push you too hard on that.

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Yeah, we’re not probably going to talk about him.

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Well, he gets enough people to talk about him.

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But around that time, not about him,

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but of the events that took place,

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because you were moving around the world with that crew,

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and that was really the go-go psychedelic 60s and all.

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So of that whole milieu that you were in,

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because you went from academia and research to Zihuatanejo,

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and then you went somewhere in the Caribbean.

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We went, first of all, to Antigua.

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Ralph and the other people had already gone to Dominica

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because this guy

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told them to come to Dominica

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because he was doing LSD research.

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The government was very glad

00:18:43 ►

to have them do the research

00:18:45 ►

because they were going to use it in their prisons

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and in their schools and so forth and so on.

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And so they went to Dominica.

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And I was getting ready, you know, packing up to go.

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And so what happened, they got in Dominica

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and the Dominican government arrested them all

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because this guy had said,

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people from the United States who have lots of money

00:19:13 ►

are coming to help overthrow the government.

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And so that’s what they’re here for,

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is to overthrow the government.

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And of course the guys from Newton said, what? We, is to overthrow the government. And of course, the guys from Newton said, what?

00:19:26 ►

We’re going to overthrow the government?

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And this guy who was making the contact was crazy as a whale.

00:19:32 ►

He wanted to overthrow the government.

00:19:35 ►

So that was the end of that.

00:19:36 ►

So they were pushed out of Dominica right away.

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And they went across, and the first island was Antigua.

00:19:44 ►

And so getting to Antigua was a nightmare. The plane kept

00:19:49 ►

breaking down. We had to go to New York and then we lost part of the luggage in New York going from

00:19:57 ►

one terminal through the other. And we had three kids, two kids in diapers.

00:20:08 ►

And so then we finally got to Puerto Rico and then we had to change planes again.

00:20:11 ►

The plane we were getting on blew up

00:20:13 ►

as we were going out to it.

00:20:15 ►

The thing got on fire.

00:20:17 ►

While you were walking out to it?

00:20:19 ►

That’s about the time I turn around

00:20:20 ►

and go home by boat.

00:20:23 ►

Time to go home.

00:20:24 ►

So it was weird.

00:20:26 ►

So we had a terrible time getting out of Puerto Rico

00:20:29 ►

and finally ended up in Antigua.

00:20:32 ►

So we arrived there and we were just exhausted

00:20:35 ►

because we’d been flying for hours and hours and hours.

00:20:39 ►

And so we got in there and I said,

00:20:41 ►

well, I’m with the group, with Timothy Leary,

00:20:46 ►

and if you can call them, they’ll come and get us. And he said, oh no, they’re being deported. They’re

00:20:55 ►

being deported. He says, yes, and you can’t come in the country. You have to, you know,

00:21:01 ►

take the next flight out. Well, we had no money you know no tickets no money nothing

00:21:06 ►

and here we were in Antigua and so finally we just kept sitting there and sitting there and

00:21:13 ►

sitting there and so finally they called the attorney who was representing uh Larry’s group

00:21:21 ►

in Antigua and they came and did something,

00:21:25 ►

give them money, I suppose,

00:21:27 ►

and then we got our papers to get deported from there.

00:21:31 ►

But we got out of the airport and got to the hotel.

00:21:35 ►

But, yeah, that was the whole story about Antigua.

00:21:39 ►

So you really didn’t spend any time doing research?

00:21:41 ►

Well, no, we didn’t really do anything except nothing.

00:21:47 ►

And because the police would come out every day,

00:21:50 ►

what’s interesting about the police,

00:21:52 ►

like the guys would go somewhere during the day.

00:21:55 ►

I forget where we would go,

00:21:57 ►

but the women would be just left there.

00:21:59 ►

And one of the women was pregnant.

00:22:01 ►

She was about eight months pregnant.

00:22:03 ►

And so they would come.

00:22:04 ►

And so the

00:22:06 ►

police chief finally said to them, well, they would keep giving us edicts. So you have to

00:22:12 ►

be off the island by sundown tomorrow. Sundown would come and we’d still be there. So the

00:22:18 ►

police would come out again. And so finally we were gone. the men were gone, and so one of the pregnant gals said,

00:22:27 ►

well, will you take us to the market because we need to get some food.

00:22:33 ►

So they got in the jeep and went to the market.

00:22:35 ►

They took them to all these markets to get food.

00:22:39 ►

And so they went to the chief of police and said,

00:22:43 ►

these are the nicest people.

00:22:45 ►

They always welcome us in.

00:22:47 ►

They always make us tea and feed us.

00:22:51 ►

And they’re wonderful people.

00:22:53 ►

And so if you want them in jail,

00:22:54 ►

because the jail was full of crazy people.

00:22:58 ►

I mean, the jail was like a barbaric place.

00:23:02 ►

And it’s all the mentally ill that were there.

00:23:04 ►

He says, if you want them in jail,

00:23:06 ►

you go get them.

00:23:08 ►

And then you take them to jail.

00:23:10 ►

Because we’re not.

00:23:11 ►

All will resign if you instruct us to do it.

00:23:17 ►

That’s what I would call goodwill ambassadors.

00:23:21 ►

So somebody rounded up the money

00:23:23 ►

to get you all up to Millbrook from there, I guess.

00:23:26 ►

Or did you come back to California?

00:23:28 ►

No, from there we went to Guadalupe.

00:23:32 ►

And so we were going to settle there.

00:23:36 ►

And that never happened.

00:23:39 ►

And it’s a French island.

00:23:43 ►

And very different than Antigua, which is English.

00:23:47 ►

But, you know, we had wonderful experiences.

00:23:50 ►

We would get picked up by some black people, get to know us,

00:23:54 ►

and they’d take us to only where black people were doing with these steel drum bands.

00:24:01 ►

Oh, my God, it was just incredible, beautiful.

00:24:05 ►

Were you guys doing any LSD then?

00:24:07 ►

Or was it just…

00:24:08 ►

Well, we had a lot of…

00:24:10 ►

One of the things I know that happened

00:24:13 ►

is that we dug holes in the sand

00:24:16 ►

and then buried a lot of it.

00:24:18 ►

And then the high tide came in

00:24:21 ►

and we didn’t know where it was.

00:24:24 ►

So we lost all that.

00:24:27 ►

So there may be some sand those vials floating down in the ocean.

00:24:31 ►

And then on one flight that we were on,

00:24:34 ►

we had all the stuff inside, children’s toys, stuff there.

00:24:40 ►

And we were watching the escalator go up with the bags and that

00:24:49 ►

one teetered at the top and then fell all the way down so it all smashed I was

00:24:56 ►

going to Hawaii to work and so people from LA we got all our money together to

00:25:02 ►

buy LSC so we’d have a stash of it forever.

00:25:06 ►

And the guy from L.A. went to Vancouver. I remember that. He sort of walked across the

00:25:13 ►

border. Then he took a flight to Frankfurt, Germany. Then somebody else went from Frankfurt,

00:25:19 ►

Germany to Switzerland and they got the LSD and they were in the vials. And so this took months and months and months to happen.

00:25:30 ►

So by the time I got back to L.A., of course, I was in Hawaii,

00:25:34 ►

so they said, well, just send it.

00:25:36 ►

Well, they put it in all this, I don’t know, it was a fluffy kind of substance

00:25:42 ►

that they put it in, these little vials.

00:25:45 ►

I didn’t know.

00:25:46 ►

I thought the LSD was all at the bottom of the box.

00:25:50 ►

So I went into this bathroom, and I still remember the bathroom in this old abandoned hotel in Hilo.

00:25:55 ►

I mean, a hospital that we used as our headquarters.

00:25:59 ►

And I was dumping all of this foaming stuff in the toilet and flushing the toilet.

00:26:04 ►

I flushed all theaming stuff in the toilet and flushing the toilet.

00:26:07 ►

I flushed all the LSD in the toilet.

00:26:09 ►

I laughed so hard I was sore.

00:26:12 ►

After all that

00:26:13 ►

money and traveling

00:26:15 ►

and I dumped it all down the toilet.

00:26:18 ►

You know, there is a sign

00:26:20 ►

that that extraterrestrial

00:26:22 ►

knew that he had the right guy with you

00:26:23 ►

because only an advanced soul could laugh at something.

00:26:27 ►

Oh, God, that was so hilarious.

00:26:33 ►

You know, I found in my life that eventually all of my great tragedies

00:26:38 ►

become really funny stories.

00:26:40 ►

And the more I can shorten the time between the tragedy and the story,

00:26:45 ►

the happier my life is.

00:26:46 ►

You really got to the chase on that.

00:26:52 ►

Did you ever cross paths with Alan Watts?

00:26:54 ►

Oh, yes.

00:26:57 ►

He’s somebody that really fascinates me.

00:27:00 ►

Did you know him at all?

00:27:01 ►

Of course not.

00:27:02 ►

I only found out about Alan Watts maybe 20 years ago

00:27:06 ►

when I bought a set of his tapes from his son.

00:27:08 ►

But I’m a latecomer to this whole thing.

00:27:11 ►

I’m an Irish Catholic Republican lawyer engineer

00:27:14 ►

that was 42 years old before his first psychedelic experience.

00:27:19 ►

You were done with all this when I started.

00:27:21 ►

I never had the pleasure of meeting him, but I’ve enjoyed his tapes.

00:27:27 ►

But Alan was funny, funny as can be.

00:27:30 ►

He was a real comedian.

00:27:32 ►

He was a pixie.

00:27:34 ►

He was just a pixie.

00:27:38 ►

And he and Mary Jane,

00:27:39 ►

the woman that he lived with for years and years,

00:27:42 ►

had gone to Maria Sabina

00:27:44 ►

and had taken the mushrooms.

00:27:47 ►

And so Alan said to Mary Jane, because they hadn’t been married, they’d lived together for years,

00:27:53 ►

that this would be a perfect time to get married.

00:27:57 ►

And so they went to the marriage ceremony with Maria Sabina. When they came back to the United States, Mary Jane was just totally cold to Alan

00:28:11 ►

and totally turned off to everything and finally said to Alan, we’re going to have to get a divorce

00:28:17 ►

because we’re totally different people and we have nothing in common and this is not never going to work and so i want a divorce and so he said

00:28:26 ►

well we can’t get a divorce in this country he said we would have to go back to mexico

00:28:34 ►

because that’s the only place where our marriage is valid is our marriage isn’t valid in california

00:28:42 ►

and she said are you sure and he he said, yeah, I’m sure.

00:28:46 ►

Never heard a word.

00:28:48 ►

She never brought it up again.

00:28:51 ►

But just this image, you know, of being married.

00:28:54 ►

She couldn’t deal with it.

00:28:55 ►

But they lived on the houseboat then.

00:28:58 ►

Did you ever get up to the houseboat to see Aunt Fred?

00:29:02 ►

No, I don’t remember.

00:29:04 ►

I remember one houseboat named Sausalita.

00:29:07 ►

Well, that’s where his houseboat was, Sausalita.

00:29:10 ►

Where I met him most of the time was at Denison’s house in Hollywood,

00:29:16 ►

the house that overlooked the lake.

00:29:19 ►

And Henry and, what’s her name, Ruthie Dennison.

00:29:25 ►

Ruthie Dennison now has her,

00:29:27 ►

she has an ashram out in the desert.

00:29:30 ►

And I don’t know if Henry died or not,

00:29:32 ►

but Alan was just funny.

00:29:35 ►

I mean, he was so funny.

00:29:37 ►

That’s the first time I really heard that about him.

00:29:39 ►

You know, you hear all his serious talks,

00:29:41 ►

but you don’t hear the pixie.

00:29:43 ►

Oh, yeah, he was a pixie.

00:29:45 ►

And at one dinner, this very proper lady said,

00:29:48 ►

well, Dr. Watts, what do you hope to gain from your next experience with LSD?

00:29:53 ►

And Alan said, another book.

00:29:59 ►

No, just like that.

00:30:01 ►

Of course, she was so shocked.

00:30:10 ►

Oh, he was funny. Did he ever meet all this Huxley too? I mean, because I know that you and the Huxleys live near each other. So I saw them frequently.

00:30:15 ►

Did Alan Watts and all this Huxley ever get together? You know? I don’t know. I have to

00:30:19 ►

ask. Not with you there. No, I don’t remember Alan being there. I’m sure he must have been.

00:30:27 ►

Because everybody ended up at the Huxleys.

00:30:30 ►

How did you meet the Huxleys?

00:30:33 ►

I think it was because it was through my mentor, Nick Chalas.

00:30:41 ►

And I think that his entree was from two husband and wife that were alcoholics and had taken LSD in Canada for alcoholism and had completely dried out and became forerunners of sponsoring LSD. So that’s my guess. But I know it was early because I’ve known Laura for forever.

00:31:13 ►

I’ll always remember Aldous was so dry. He had this very English dry sense of humor.

00:31:19 ►

And so Aldous said to me, no, Laura said to me, well, Gary, what do you do when you’re not busy being a psychologist?

00:31:27 ►

And Aldous said, probably enjoys himself.

00:31:33 ►

Yeah, he was very, very tall and couldn’t see at all.

00:31:39 ►

I heard that. He had real thick glasses.

00:31:42 ►

Oh, yeah, very thick glasses, yeah.

00:31:44 ►

There’s some wonders.

00:31:45 ►

I’ve got some great pictures of him around somewhere.

00:31:49 ►

I don’t know where they are.

00:31:50 ►

Someday I’d like to see those.

00:31:51 ►

Yeah.

00:31:52 ►

And you’ve been to Laura’s house.

00:31:54 ►

Yeah.

00:31:54 ►

And you know there’s pictures of Aldous everywhere.

00:31:57 ►

Right, right, yeah.

00:31:58 ►

Yeah, that’s really an amazing house.

00:32:01 ►

Isn’t it?

00:32:01 ►

You can just feel all kinds of spirits in that building.

00:32:05 ►

Yeah. And Laura’s best friend was Ginny Pfeiffer. Ginny’s house burned down when

00:32:14 ►

Laura and Aldous’s house burned down in that Hollywood fire. Ginny bought this other house that Laura still lives in.

00:32:26 ►

And then shortly after that,

00:32:27 ►

all of us got cancer.

00:32:29 ►

So they,

00:32:31 ►

because they were going to rebuild.

00:32:34 ►

And they never rebuilt.

00:32:36 ►

Didn’t he lose a manuscript in that house?

00:32:37 ►

Oh, he lost all his papers. He lost everything,

00:32:38 ►

but one that had been unpublished.

00:32:40 ►

Oh, yes.

00:32:41 ►

Lots and lots and lots of things.

00:32:43 ►

I don’t know how you recover

00:32:44 ►

from something like that.

00:32:46 ►

Did he get depressed after that?

00:32:48 ►

No.

00:32:49 ►

Did he come through?

00:32:51 ►

No, he never got depressed.

00:32:55 ►

No, he had a tremendously clear awareness.

00:33:04 ►

And very British.

00:33:06 ►

Proper British gentleman.

00:33:09 ►

But he was introduced to…

00:33:12 ►

He used psilocybin, I think.

00:33:15 ►

Mescaline.

00:33:15 ►

Mescaline, that’s right.

00:33:17 ►

Through Humphrey Osmond, is that how it was?

00:33:20 ►

And then I heard that Al Hubbard

00:33:22 ►

brought LSD into his life too.

00:33:27 ►

I don’t know about that.

00:33:29 ►

Myron would know.

00:33:30 ►

I think that’s what Myron told me.

00:33:31 ►

I’ll have to go back and check.

00:33:34 ►

But at dinner parties and all, Huxley, was he just quiet or did he flip forth?

00:33:41 ►

Well, he was very interesting because lots of people came to visit and Aldous was

00:33:48 ►

extremely inquisitive about everybody. So he would get the person talking about themselves

00:33:54 ►

and Aldous would ask more questions and more questions until the evening was over and everybody

00:34:00 ►

left. And then the people that left would think, well, he didn’t say anything about himself.

00:34:07 ►

He never talked.

00:34:08 ►

We did all the talking, but that was his genius.

00:34:11 ►

He got everybody to talk.

00:34:13 ►

And have you read the book Island?

00:34:16 ►

Oh, actually three or four times, yeah.

00:34:19 ►

And actually that’s the one that I’ve heard Laura on many occasions tell people

00:34:24 ►

that that’s the one he considered his most important book.

00:34:28 ►

Yeah, I’ve read most of his books, but Island is…

00:34:31 ►

And, you know, Island doesn’t have a happy ending either.

00:34:33 ►

You know, there’s a gunfire in the distance.

00:34:36 ►

But, yeah, that was a very important book I heard.

00:34:39 ►

You know, I’ve got two groups of friends relative to Leary that met Leary.

00:34:47 ►

The ones that knew Leary when he was Tim Leary,

00:34:51 ►

and then those that knew him at the end of his life.

00:34:53 ►

And the people that knew him in the last five to ten years

00:34:58 ►

that were hanging around his Hollywood apartment or home there

00:35:01 ►

are devotees.

00:35:04 ►

Everybody that knew him

00:35:06 ►

before he moved to Hollywood

00:35:07 ►

really doesn’t want to talk about him too much

00:35:10 ►

and would like to move on.

00:35:13 ►

I won’t

00:35:14 ►

tell you what’s in this paper

00:35:16 ►

that Myron wrote, but when you

00:35:18 ►

read the comparison that he does

00:35:20 ►

of Leary, you’ll laugh out loud.

00:35:22 ►

I guarantee.

00:35:24 ►

I don’t want to ruin it for you but uh

00:35:28 ►

you know i think it was maybe three or four years ago we were having a phone conversation and i said

00:35:33 ►

something to you because i know how you feel about it and i said well you know being the devil’s

00:35:38 ►

advocate here you and i wouldn’t be having this conversation if it wasn’t for tim leary

00:35:42 ►

and without missing a beat you just just said, oh yes we would.

00:35:45 ►

And that shut me up.

00:35:48 ►

But I think

00:35:50 ►

that the people that knew him in the last

00:35:52 ►

four or five years, he

00:35:53 ►

either mellowed or something,

00:35:56 ►

but they had

00:35:58 ►

a decidedly different impression

00:35:59 ►

than the people that knew him when he was younger.

00:36:02 ►

So, you know,

00:36:03 ►

he lived several lives.

00:36:06 ►

Yeah, and of course, he, you know, at the very end,

00:36:12 ►

I drove Laura over to that farewell for him when he was dying.

00:36:19 ►

And because I don’t remember why, but anyway, that’s why I went.

00:36:24 ►

Because I certainly didn’t want to see him.

00:36:26 ►

And I really didn’t see him.

00:36:27 ►

I just said hello.

00:36:29 ►

But didn’t talk to him.

00:36:30 ►

But his son, oh, God.

00:36:33 ►

I couldn’t remember.

00:36:35 ►

Because his daughter was Susie, and of course she committed suicide in prison.

00:36:41 ►

And that was the first time that he had seen Tim in years and years and years

00:36:45 ►

he totally

00:36:45 ►

you know

00:36:47 ►

was so angry at him

00:36:48 ►

because he was a terrible father

00:36:51 ►

just a terrible father

00:36:54 ►

well he was a drunken Irishman

00:36:57 ►

with a silver tongue

00:36:58 ►

he wasn’t a very good husband either

00:37:00 ►

oh

00:37:00 ►

how many wives did he have?

00:37:04 ►

four? several several yeah but yeah either. How many wives did he have? Four?

00:37:05 ►

Several.

00:37:06 ►

Several?

00:37:06 ►

Yeah.

00:37:07 ►

But,

00:37:08 ►

yeah,

00:37:10 ►

it’s,

00:37:11 ►

you know,

00:37:12 ►

I have to admit

00:37:12 ►

that I am,

00:37:14 ►

I can argue

00:37:15 ►

both sides of the street

00:37:16 ►

about whether

00:37:17 ►

he did a good thing

00:37:18 ►

or a bad thing,

00:37:18 ►

you know,

00:37:18 ►

but all of the people

00:37:20 ►

involved in research

00:37:21 ►

at the time,

00:37:21 ►

you know,

00:37:21 ►

he did a pretty bad thing

00:37:23 ►

for them.

00:37:24 ►

And if you

00:37:26 ►

have a child who is schizophrenic or has autism right now, he did a horrible thing because

00:37:31 ►

otherwise that research would still have been completed.

00:37:33 ►

Well, it’s hard to know, isn’t it?

00:37:35 ►

Yeah, it’s hard to know.

00:37:37 ►

I mean, of course, he got all the young people involved, which is exactly wrong. You know,

00:37:44 ►

he said that he only wanted to be

00:37:45 ►

two things, he wanted to be rich

00:37:47 ►

we’re going to have to shut this door

00:37:48 ►

the last interview I did with you

00:37:52 ►

had a leaf blower in the background

00:37:53 ►

right

00:37:54 ►

yeah he wanted to be rich

00:37:57 ►

and he wanted to be famous

00:37:59 ►

and so

00:38:01 ►

those were his two goals in life

00:38:04 ►

really

00:38:04 ►

and it didn’t matter to him how And so those were his two goals in life. Really? Mm-hmm.

00:38:06 ►

And it didn’t matter to him how he became famous.

00:38:12 ►

I remember one time Alan Watts were in a group talking,

00:38:18 ►

and Tim was going to be doing this thing at Santa Monica Civic,

00:38:22 ►

and Tim kept wondering what he should have on the marquee.

00:38:26 ►

And Alan said, well, why don’t you just tell him like it is.

00:38:29 ►

Just say, Tim Leary, the second coming.

00:38:34 ►

But, you know, he really saw himself as the leader.

00:38:41 ►

And that he would…

00:38:43 ►

But, oh, he would double-cross anybody at any time for anything if it was in his best

00:38:49 ►

interest. He had no morals.

00:38:51 ►

And you wound up spending a lot of time with him, really?

00:38:54 ►

No, because you could never have a conversation with him. And I said that to somebody one

00:39:01 ►

time and they said, she never had a conversation with anybody.

00:39:06 ►

Never.

00:39:07 ►

He just talked.

00:39:10 ►

Well, he would talk,

00:39:12 ►

change the subject,

00:39:13 ►

drink gin,

00:39:16 ►

you know, get pretty high.

00:39:18 ►

But he never talked.

00:39:20 ►

He was very apersonal.

00:39:22 ►

Well, you know,

00:39:24 ►

maybe that’s what changed at the end, and he did all

00:39:26 ►

his talking in the last three or four years, and that’s why

00:39:27 ►

so many people are devoted to him today.

00:39:30 ►

Oh, I know there’s so many

00:39:31 ►

people.

00:39:33 ►

I’ve received some pretty hateful

00:39:35 ►

email because I made a comment

00:39:37 ►

here or there about him.

00:39:39 ►

Well, that’s nice.

00:39:41 ►

Well, yes, it’s nice to know he can engender

00:39:43 ►

emotion yet.

00:39:45 ►

I’ve decided to make a point of…

00:39:47 ►

Not make a point of it.

00:39:48 ►

I’m not including any leery stuff in all these podcasts.

00:39:52 ►

There’s so much leery stuff out there.

00:39:54 ►

You can go dig that out.

00:39:56 ►

I did see a video of his archives.

00:40:00 ►

It’s in two storage sheds.

00:40:02 ►

And three or four hundred boxes,

00:40:04 ►

well indexed and cataloged

00:40:06 ►

with every piece of paper that he’s ever touched

00:40:08 ►

his grade school report cards

00:40:10 ►

everything, his death mask

00:40:12 ►

which

00:40:14 ►

might have

00:40:15 ►

a few valuable pieces

00:40:18 ►

of paper in there

00:40:20 ►

one of being is Myron

00:40:22 ►

after he kicked him off the board

00:40:24 ►

of the Institute,

00:40:26 ►

said he never really

00:40:27 ►

had a good closure with it. So he came back

00:40:29 ►

and wrote a real long letter to him

00:40:31 ►

about what he was doing wrong.

00:40:33 ►

Myron did? Myron did, yeah.

00:40:35 ►

But Myron doesn’t have a copy of it anymore.

00:40:37 ►

So maybe he still exists in an archive,

00:40:39 ►

hopefully. I’d love to hear what Myron had to say.

00:40:42 ►

Well, Myron wouldn’t have said

00:40:44 ►

anything flattering, so the letter would have gotten burned

00:40:46 ►

oh now that’s

00:40:48 ►

now that will be an interesting thing

00:40:50 ►

someday an archivist should

00:40:52 ►

pull that out

00:40:54 ►

do your kids still have any memories of those days

00:40:56 ►

do they ever bring it up

00:40:57 ►

the only thing

00:41:00 ►

no the two youngest don’t

00:41:02 ►

they don’t remember

00:41:02 ►

but the middle one the little Buddha baby we called her.

00:41:10 ►

But I remember when we got back to Dana Point,

00:41:13 ►

and we had a three-bedroom, two-bath house

00:41:15 ►

and a den and so forth.

00:41:17 ►

It was a typical house in Dana Point,

00:41:21 ►

which was a tract house.

00:41:23 ►

And so Bess was so cute. She had these fat little hands. And so she woke me up in the Point, which was a tract house. And so Bess was so cute.

00:41:25 ►

She had these fat little hands.

00:41:26 ►

And so she woke me up in the morning,

00:41:29 ►

and I opened up, you know.

00:41:30 ►

It wasn’t Bessie, because we got back

00:41:33 ►

at like 2 o’clock in the morning or something.

00:41:35 ►

And she said,

00:41:36 ►

Are we all going to live in this tiny little house?

00:41:39 ►

And she went like this with her fingers.

00:41:41 ►

This tiny little house.

00:41:44 ►

Because she didn’t remember the house.

00:41:46 ►

She just remembered that.

00:41:48 ►

Millbrook.

00:41:49 ►

Millbrook.

00:41:53 ►

Well, you know,

00:41:54 ►

looking back on those days,

00:41:56 ►

from where I am now,

00:41:58 ►

I couldn’t imagine

00:41:59 ►

taking my family around

00:42:01 ►

doing those things,

00:42:01 ►

but I did things like that

00:42:03 ►

with my family, too.

00:42:04 ►

We’d do things when we were younger

00:42:05 ►

that are just beyond our scope to imagine now.

00:42:13 ►

Yeah, kids are very adaptable.

00:42:17 ►

Well, who else of that era,

00:42:20 ►

Aldous Huxley, Alan Watts,

00:42:24 ►

were there other psychedelicic type luminaries that

00:42:27 ►

would come in and out of the world or did you pretty much uh drop out of all that after you

00:42:31 ►

left millbrook well after i left millbrook i guess i worked at the um at the prison for a while

00:42:44 ►

at the prison for a while.

00:42:47 ►

I think that maybe was the sequence.

00:42:49 ►

And then after that,

00:42:51 ►

I went to Hawaii and worked for Peace Corps.

00:42:56 ►

Yeah.

00:42:57 ►

And yeah,

00:42:59 ►

I was always into adventure.

00:43:04 ►

There’s a lot of stories of people in the 60s

00:43:06 ►

that melted down and became wards of the state.

00:43:13 ►

I’ve never really heard anything that’s documented.

00:43:17 ►

There’s only one LSD crash I’ve heard of.

00:43:21 ►

It was one of the members of Pink Floyd.

00:43:23 ►

Did you encounter people who just went crazy and never came back after they took LSD?

00:43:29 ►

No, I worked with some students as a psychotherapist.

00:43:35 ►

I would take them back, regress them to where they turned off during sessions

00:43:43 ►

and took them back to that period of time

00:43:45 ►

and then brought them forward and forward and forward.

00:43:49 ►

So I treated a number of people

00:43:51 ►

that had taken psychedelics that got stuck

00:43:55 ►

and remain stuck, but got them…

00:43:58 ►

You could get unstuck.

00:44:02 ►

And what about age groups?

00:44:04 ►

You know, right now there’s

00:44:05 ►

I don’t think it’s any different now

00:44:08 ►

than it was in the 60’s

00:44:09 ►

you know there are kids in their

00:44:11 ►

junior high school that are taking LSD

00:44:13 ►

and a lot of them with no

00:44:15 ►

guidance, no sitters, no nothing

00:44:17 ►

which I consider pretty

00:44:19 ►

dangerous not so much from the

00:44:21 ►

physical standpoint as the

00:44:23 ►

emotional standpoint do you you have any

00:44:27 ►

feelings about how old does it make a difference if somebody is 15 or 50 or i think they have a

00:44:36 ►

better chance of getting into the experience the younger they are in In fact, Aldous started saying that kids at a certain age should be given LSD.

00:44:51 ►

Well, in Island, it’s the Moksha medicine, which is LSD. So I would say he was an advocate

00:44:58 ►

of that, at least in the novel. I don’t know if I’ve read it anywhere else.

00:45:02 ►

Well, but that was his… That was his platform.

00:45:06 ►

That was his platform.

00:45:08 ►

Yeah, as I recall,

00:45:09 ►

there were certain periods in someone’s life,

00:45:12 ►

but the first one seemed like that at puberty

00:45:14 ►

was the first time.

00:45:16 ►

Right, right.

00:45:17 ►

That’s right.

00:45:18 ►

With proper guidance,

00:45:20 ►

I still think that’s a good method.

00:45:26 ►

I’m afraid I’m going to have to bring this conversation to an end for now.

00:45:31 ►

From here, we just seem to kind of, well, we kind of descended into a little gossip,

00:45:37 ►

a few personal stories from each of us, and probably way too much politics,

00:45:42 ►

just like everybody else’s conversations.

00:45:44 ►

probably way too much politics, just like everybody else’s conversations.

00:45:50 ►

I guess what I’m getting at here is that I hope you’re getting the feeling that these great heroes of early psychedelic research,

00:45:54 ►

people like Gary Fisher, Gene and Myron Stolaroff, Ann and Sasha Shulgin,

00:45:59 ►

they’re all people that are much like you and me.

00:46:02 ►

Granted, they’ve accomplished things far beyond anything I can aspire to,

00:46:07 ►

but what I’m talking about is what they’re like as people.

00:46:12 ►

You know, as you’ve most likely figured out by now,

00:46:15 ►

these wonderful folks are not all that different at their core from you and me.

00:46:20 ►

You know, ultimately, I think that this deep-seated awareness

00:46:24 ►

of the true commonality of our human experience is one of the great gifts of psychedelic experiences.

00:46:31 ►

I’ve not yet heard or read what I consider a clear definition of what it is that happens to a person once she or he makes a conscious intention to push their awareness beyond that psychedelic threshold.

00:46:51 ►

But as you well know, once you’ve had that experience, whether it was good or a bad experience,

00:46:57 ►

once you return from the realm of the other, well, I can’t put it into words either.

00:47:02 ►

But as my friend Tony Rich once said, we do know what we know.

00:47:09 ►

And in a way, that can become a very slippery slope, but in the end, the one thing that keeps the psychedelic experience from morphing into just another organized religion of some

00:47:16 ►

sort is the fact that it is, in the end, an experience.

00:47:22 ►

Like Ken Kesey often said, you’re either on the bus or off the bus.

00:47:26 ►

But the thing is that all of us guys

00:47:29 ►

who have decided to ride the bus

00:47:31 ►

have also continued to have a great deal of love

00:47:35 ►

and respect for those who choose otherwise.

00:47:38 ►

You know, in the end, everybody takes their own trip.

00:47:40 ►

And in my case, I’ve found that the love trip

00:47:43 ►

is much more enjoyable than its opposite, the fear trip.

00:47:48 ►

Now that’s a bad trip, don’t you think?

00:47:52 ►

What kind of crazy hyperlink patchwork of thoughts got me from a conversation with Gary Fisher

00:47:59 ►

about the proper age for a person to have her or his first psychedelic experience to love versus fear.

00:48:08 ►

I hope this lack of focus

00:48:10 ►

doesn’t bode ill for the rest of the year,

00:48:12 ►

which, by the way,

00:48:14 ►

this is our third year in podcast land.

00:48:18 ►

That’s right.

00:48:19 ►

Even though this is only podcast number 98,

00:48:21 ►

I am nonetheless in my third year

00:48:24 ►

of podcasting from the Psychedelic Salon.

00:48:27 ►

And for those who are joining us for the first time today,

00:48:30 ►

I hope you’ll subscribe to this channel through iTunes, Google, Yahoo, or any of the other services.

00:48:36 ►

And that way you’ll always be able to look back and download some of our earlier programs

00:48:41 ►

in addition to being notified of each week’s new one.

00:48:44 ►

And if you want more information about this or any of our previous podcasts, Thank you.

00:49:09 ►

You know, without you, well, I’d be sitting here talking to myself, I guess.

00:49:14 ►

Not that that’s a bad thing, but it’s so much nicer knowing that you’re here too.

00:49:19 ►

And I really appreciate you taking the time to join me here each week.

00:49:24 ►

And in particular, I want to be sure to thank seven wonderful people who have truly warmed my heart.

00:49:31 ►

You know, for the past two years, on average, there have been about one person a month, a little bit more,

00:49:36 ►

who has made a donation to help pay the expenses associated with these podcasts from the Psychedelic Salon.

00:49:43 ►

And believe me, those donors have had a big influence on me, Thank you. There have been seven donors. That’s right, seven. And several of them have made donations before,

00:50:07 ►

which is far above the call of duty, you guys.

00:50:11 ►

So I hope everyone in the salon sends a little positive karmic energy out to these generous souls.

00:50:17 ►

And as always, my policy is to never reveal the full name of donors or email authors,

00:50:23 ►

just in case it might cause some issues back in the default world.

00:50:28 ►

So, Albert C., David R., Corey H., Eugene R., Michael M., Brandon F., and Vipal P.

00:50:37 ►

Or is it Vipal? V-I-P-A-L.

00:50:39 ►

New name for me. I like it.

00:50:41 ►

Anyhow, thank you all. Thank all of you so, so very much, and may all

00:50:46 ►

your days be merry. And now for a little sampling of a couple emails that have come in recently.

00:50:54 ►

Luke writes, I found your latest podcast, Energy Drinks and Other Stuff, to be particularly

00:51:00 ►

illuminating and synchronistic. After listening, I did a bit of research and found that the Halpern Gate and John Halpern

00:51:08 ►

ordeal tied in a bit closer to home than I expected.

00:51:12 ►

Growing up in Topeka, Kansas, my Little League football coach was Picard’s attorney.

00:51:18 ►

I recall not being too fond of him, but in retrospect, I think it was the game, not the

00:51:22 ►

coach, that I was displeased with.

00:51:25 ►

I didn’t have a positive Little League experience of any kind either.

00:51:30 ►

He goes on.

00:51:32 ►

Furthermore I would frequently travel to, wow I don’t know where this place is, Wamego

00:51:37 ►

W-A-M-I-G-O Kansas for disc golf festivals and remember driving by the old missile silos

00:51:44 ►

that were apparently a key site to this unfortunate story.

00:51:48 ►

It’s too bad that someone who looked to transform a symbol of American imperialism,

00:51:53 ►

missile silos, into beacons of next-generation consciousness

00:51:57 ►

is perceived as a social criminal.

00:52:00 ►

And then Luke goes on to say,

00:52:02 ►

Unrelated to the Energy Drink podcast, I would like to thank you for the tremendous work you’ve done And then Luke goes on to say, before ever venturing into those spaces. Your resources have opened me up to ideas and philosophers

00:52:25 ►

whom I never would have found independently.

00:52:29 ►

I also received the following in an email from a salonner named Kat.

00:52:34 ►

You just gave me the biggest smile.

00:52:36 ►

I can’t express to you how much I enjoy your work.

00:52:39 ►

I was listening while working on my computer,

00:52:41 ►

thinking how I would love to send you an email,

00:52:44 ►

right when you expressed in your podcast that you’d never get email from women,

00:52:48 ►

laughing out loud.

00:52:50 ►

Then, of course, you realized that many women listened.

00:52:53 ►

So, the delightful serendipity impressed upon me to write.

00:52:58 ►

Well, thank you for those kind words, Kat and Luke,

00:53:02 ►

but I assure you and all of the others who have written

00:53:06 ►

similar things that the privilege is

00:53:08 ►

all mine. And on top of that,

00:53:10 ►

I’m no different from you

00:53:11 ►

or any of the other salonners.

00:53:14 ►

Basically, when I hear something

00:53:16 ►

interesting, whether it’s a talk at a

00:53:18 ►

conference or a good story a friend is

00:53:20 ►

telling, my first impulse is

00:53:22 ►

to share it with my friends.

00:53:24 ►

And my guess is that that’s what you want to do too.

00:53:27 ►

So please keep in mind that all I am is a carnival barker.

00:53:32 ►

And all the action is in the tent.

00:53:35 ►

But I do have a lot of fun helping people find a few of the ideas they’ve been searching

00:53:40 ►

for for a while.

00:53:41 ►

But ultimately, the only way any of us can thank any of the elders

00:53:45 ►

or great thinkers who have gone before us is to do the best that we can do to become a little more

00:53:50 ►

aware of the true nature of the magic that we’re immersed in. You know, it’s called the earth game,

00:53:56 ►

I think. And I also think we’re about to advance to the next level. At least that’s what I think

00:54:03 ►

on my bright and positive days, of which this is one.

00:54:06 ►

And I hope that today is a bright and positive day for you as well. And if it isn’t, if this

00:54:12 ►

hasn’t been your best day, well, why don’t you try to find five minutes just before you drift

00:54:18 ►

off to sleep tonight and fantasize about your perfect day, your perfect life. Because, you know, without first having the thought,

00:54:25 ►

well, reality doesn’t know where to go next.

00:54:28 ►

So press on, my friend, press on.

00:54:32 ►

And before I go, I also want to mention that this

00:54:35 ►

and all of the podcasts from the Psychedelic Salon

00:54:37 ►

are protected under the Creative Commons Attribution

00:54:40 ►

Non-Commercial Share Alike 2.5 license.

00:54:44 ►

And if you have any questions about that, just click on the Creative Commons link Thank you. at matrixmasters.com. A big thank you again to Shatul Hayyuk

00:55:05 ►

for the use of your music here in the salon.

00:55:07 ►

And my love and thanks go out to my dear friend Gary Fisher

00:55:11 ►

for being so kind as to allow this small intrusion into his privacy.

00:55:17 ►

Thanks a million, Gary.

00:55:18 ►

I really appreciate everything you’ve done for us,

00:55:21 ►

for all of us, your fellow humans.

00:55:24 ►

And for now, this is Lorenzo, signing off from Cyberdelic Space.

00:55:28 ►

Be well, my friends.

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