Program Notes

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Guest speaker: Terence McKenna

https://entheomedicine.org/allan-badiner-lorenzo-hagerty-january-19th-2019/Date this lecture was recorded: May 1990.

Today’s podcast features the second part of a talk that Terence McKenna gave in May of 1990. Rather than follow a script for this talk, Terence answers questions from the audience which feature such diverse topics as the family, education, ayahuasca, DMT, history, language, and psychedelics.

[NOTE: All quotations are by Terence McKenna.]

“For us, authentic meaning is beheld.”

“History is the lower-dimensional language slice … among other things, of course.”

“We have to educate people about drugs, and we have to tell them the truth. And the truth, unfortunately, is complex. So how do you tell a kid a complex truth?”

Entheo Medicine January 19, 2019

The Imperfectionists
Don’t Get Owned

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Transcript

00:00:00

Greetings from cyberdelic space.

00:00:19

This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.

00:00:23

This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.

00:00:31

And to begin with today’s podcast, I first want to play a soundbite from it that you’ll be hearing once again in just a few minutes.

00:00:35

Psychedelic people look like everybody else.

00:00:43

And one good purpose served by these events is that they draw them out of the woodwork.

00:00:49

So you might look around and see who your affinity group is.

00:00:55

Odds are, whatever you need, someone in this room has it.

00:00:58

Whatever you need.

00:01:10

And the reason that I wanted to point that out is because there’s a gathering that I’ll be at on the 19th of January, this coming January,

00:01:17

and I think that it may be, well, may just be one that fits the bill with what Terrence had just said.

00:01:23

The event is being organized by the Entheo Medicine Group in Santa Barbara, California,

00:01:28

and it’ll take place on the evening of Saturday, January 19th, 2019.

00:01:31

Alan Badner will be the other speaker,

00:01:36

and he’ll be talking about ways in which psychedelics can enhance a Buddhist practice.

00:01:38

Maybe I’ll see you there.

00:01:43

And now I’m pleased to thank regular donor, Ion W.

00:01:48

And by the way, Ion, I haven’t forgot about returning those McKenna tapes that you sent.

00:01:51

I plan on mailing them right after the first of the year.

00:01:54

And hey, thanks again for letting me podcast them.

00:02:01

Also, we received donations from Christopher C., Samuel G., Dan O., Deborah R., and along with a very generous donation from Thomas R.,

00:02:05

and I’d like to thank you one and all from the bottom of my heart.

00:02:09

Additionally, during the past 45 days,

00:02:13

the number of supporters to my first-run Patreon feed has almost doubled.

00:02:18

As you know, I’m now podcasting new programs first on Patreon,

00:02:22

where my supporters are chipping in $1 a month to help

00:02:26

me begin this next phase of my life that’s taking place right now. And for that princely sum, they

00:02:32

not only get to listen to these podcasts in full a few months before they appear on the classic RSS

00:02:38

feed, I also host a live version of the salon every Monday night. Well, almost every Monday night, because I am going

00:02:46

to take off Christmas Eve, but we will be live on New Year’s Eve. However, I do hope that you’ll

00:02:51

have something better to do than to chat with a few of us non-party people on that night.

00:02:57

However, speaking of parties, how about we rejoin Terrence McKenna on a May evening in 1990 and

00:03:04

see what kind of a party he can stir up in our minds right now.

00:03:10

So let’s just take questions and we’ll go for a while.

00:03:14

Before we begin, there’s just one thing I want to say, a point that I want to make, which is I say it in all situations where I come to a place like this for the first time.

00:03:24

Maybe you all do know each other other I get the feeling this is

00:03:28

a small town but anyway psychedelic people

00:03:32

look like everybody else and the one

00:03:36

good purpose served by these events is that

00:03:40

they draw them out of the woodwork so you might

00:03:44

look around and see who your affinity group is.

00:03:49

Odds are, whatever you need, someone in this room has it.

00:03:54

Whatever you need.

00:04:01

Okay, so much for clowning around.

00:04:04

Yes?

00:04:04

Okay, so much for clowning around.

00:04:04

Yes?

00:04:11

As a parent of a teenager and several other children,

00:04:14

I felt a responsibility to bring my oldest daughter here tonight.

00:04:18

These same substances that we’re talking about are out on the plaza on the streets of Santa Fe,

00:04:21

and children are using them in ways that I think need guidance.

00:04:26

Could you speak to that?

00:04:29

Yes, sure.

00:04:29

I’m glad to.

00:04:30

This is an excellent question.

00:04:33

I have a boy 11, a girl 9,

00:04:36

so I’m meeting this as well.

00:04:39

What do you say to your kids

00:04:40

about this issue

00:04:41

and about drugs generally?

00:04:45

The main thing about drugs

00:04:49

is a lack of education.

00:04:52

I mean, we have to educate people about drugs

00:04:56

and we have to tell them the truth.

00:04:59

And the truth, unfortunately, is complex.

00:05:03

So how do you tell a kid a complex truth?

00:05:07

You know, I mean, the Surgeon General says

00:05:11

tobacco is as addictive as heroin.

00:05:14

Tobacco you get from a machine.

00:05:16

Heroin, they send you up the river for years.

00:05:19

How do you make sense of this for a kid?

00:05:21

All I know to do is, first of all,

00:05:24

I don’t hide anything I do from my

00:05:27

children. And I think it’s a bad idea. I actually make a character judgment. I don’t think people

00:05:34

should hide what they do from their children. This, we can’t light up a jade till the children

00:05:39

are in bed stuff, is malarkey. Because it’s giving a message of subterfuge and confusion. It means you’d have

00:05:49

no principles. You don’t know where you stand on this. You’re all over the map. In fact,

00:05:53

you look like an addict to something. So why don’t you just be out front about it?

00:06:00

The other thing is it’s just like sex and all these tricky things that you come to with children.

00:06:07

You try to give a good example, try to give the best information that you can,

00:06:15

and stand back and hope.

00:06:19

But I really think the main thing is openness and education.

00:06:27

think the main thing is openness and education. And I say to my kids, you know, if you want to try something, discuss it with me. If you get past me, I’ll get it for you. So, you

00:06:34

know, don’t be out on the street. We’ll make sense of it together, whatever decision we

00:06:41

come to.

00:06:42

That’s great. Thank you, Jackie.

00:06:44

Well, it’s not very satisfying, but I don’t know what else to do That’s great. Thank you, Jackie. It’s not very satisfying,

00:06:45

but I don’t know what else to do.

00:06:47

Back there.

00:06:49

And then my question is,

00:06:53

you have talked about all the very positive things

00:06:56

that psychedelics can do,

00:06:59

and you have talked very well about it.

00:07:02

You have expressed many wonderful truths.

00:07:07

But then the other side of the coin is,

00:07:10

what do you do or how do you deal with such occurrences as,

00:07:16

for example, Charlie Manson and psychedelics being used for satanic purposes?

00:07:24

and psychedelics being used for satanic purposes.

00:07:29

The question of a Manson or something like that,

00:07:32

I don’t really, I don’t deal with that because I regard it as anomalous.

00:07:35

But what I hear you asking is,

00:07:38

what about the dark side of psychedelics?

00:07:41

And I think that’s certainly worth talking about.

00:07:44

and I think that’s certainly worth talking about.

00:07:50

It isn’t a joy ride necessarily.

00:07:55

One thing that is quite wonderful about psychedelics is that,

00:07:59

and I’ll just speak of the mushroom in this case,

00:08:02

is that it’s wonderfully kind to beginners.

00:08:09

But if you are an acolyte of the priesthood,

00:08:13

sooner or later it will scare the socks off you.

00:08:17

And in many ways it can do this.

00:08:20

In fact, that’s what’s so scary about it, is it knows the way to scare you,

00:08:22

just like it knows everything else about you and um so so

00:08:31

in my talk i stressed the facility with which one can access these places. The question is then, but is it easy to control

00:08:48

and manipulate and understand these places? And this is where it can turn you every way but loose.

00:08:56

This is where you want to have your mantras polished and your yantras ready, because is ready because in that domain it all works all that malarkey that doesn’t ever work anywhere else

00:09:09

in that domain it works and and so i think one should have techniques uh you know the ring pass

00:09:20

not or mantras uh something that you have faith in, power objects

00:09:26

ultimately the best advice I’ve ever come on

00:09:29

and you know it’s pretty sickening advice

00:09:31

but the goal is to survive these things

00:09:34

is Frank Herbert’s advice in Dune

00:09:37

about fear and he says

00:09:40

fear comes like a wind

00:09:42

it comes and the way you meet it is you meet it and you wait.

00:09:48

And it blows and it blows and it blows itself out.

00:09:51

And then you’re alone again.

00:09:54

And that’s what you have to do.

00:09:57

And then in terms of practical instruction,

00:10:02

there are ways to navigate

00:10:05

through hard spots

00:10:06

breath control

00:10:08

singing

00:10:09

singing is wonderful

00:10:11

we tend to suffer silently

00:10:14

and if you get into a

00:10:16

pressurized place

00:10:19

on a psychedelic

00:10:20

I don’t think it’s a good idea

00:10:22

to squeeze down

00:10:24

and meet it like that I think it’s a good idea to go to squeeze down and meet it like that

00:10:26

I think it’s much better to sing

00:10:28

to circulate huge volumes of oxygen through your body

00:10:33

and just send your whole metabolism spiraling off

00:10:36

in some other direction

00:10:39

shamanism was defined by the foremost

00:10:43

commentator on it,

00:10:45

Mersiliad, as the archaic techniques of ecstasy.

00:10:50

Notice its techniques.

00:10:53

And this is really important.

00:10:55

This is not a religion or an ontology

00:10:59

or a set of beliefs like Buddhism, Hinduism, Catholicism, you name it.

00:11:07

It’s a set of beliefs like Buddhism, Hinduism, Catholicism, you name it. It’s a set of techniques and the techniques deliver the experience and then out of the experience one creates

00:11:14

whatever models of the universe seem appropriate. But this is what science was before science. This is what religion was before religion.

00:11:27

And it’s deep.

00:11:30

It’s the deepest thing there is.

00:11:32

Our society, living in ignorance of this,

00:11:36

is infantile and destructive and narcissistic and materialistic

00:11:41

and the whole gamut because we can’t touch the gold in life.

00:11:47

It’s hard for us.

00:11:49

It’s very elusive.

00:11:51

It’s far from us.

00:11:53

Authenticity is fleeting

00:11:55

and we require psychotherapists

00:11:57

and self-affirmation

00:11:58

and all this stuff to hang on to it.

00:12:01

But this was understood and is there.

00:12:08

I mean, how I got into this,

00:12:12

like the gentleman who asked the question,

00:12:15

is by being in the Amazon,

00:12:16

by having searched India to see.

00:12:19

So, you know, what can you show me?

00:12:22

And they couldn’t show me anything.

00:12:23

They wanted me to sweep the ashram for 12 years

00:12:26

and then something wonderful was going to happen.

00:12:29

But then when I got to South America,

00:12:32

I said, what can you show me?

00:12:33

And this guy said, let’s sharpen our machetes.

00:12:35

We’ll go out here and get some of this snake vine

00:12:38

and come back and I’ll show you.

00:12:40

And by 10 o’clock that night,

00:12:42

I was sobbing in the guy’s arms.

00:12:44

He’d shown me. I was a convert. I’d sweep his courtyard for 12 years without asking. Anyway, yes.

00:13:01

Would you speak more about your ayahuasca experiences in the Amazon?

00:13:07

Sure.

00:13:08

For those of you who aren’t aware,

00:13:09

although I think there’s high awareness in this town,

00:13:12

but ayahuasca is a hallucinogenic plant and beverage

00:13:19

made of that plant with others.

00:13:22

It’s slow-release DMT.

00:13:25

What’s happening is DMT is being combined with an MAO inhibitor

00:13:29

to make it orally active, which would not ordinarily be the case.

00:13:34

And it’s a slow-release DMT trip that lasts from four to six hours.

00:13:38

It’s quite extraordinary.

00:13:41

It’s existed in the Amazon for a long long time

00:13:46

no one knows how long

00:13:47

I’m at work on a paper arguing that

00:13:50

Mayan religion that it reached as far up as Chiapas

00:13:55

this cult at one time

00:13:56

and what’s interesting about it is

00:14:00

it’s a little different from psilocybin

00:14:02

psilocybin has this

00:14:04

millenarian high high-tech,

00:14:08

outer space, insects driving strange machines

00:14:11

kind of thing to it.

00:14:14

Ayahuasca is not like that.

00:14:16

It’s all about water and flow and life

00:14:24

and organic and suspension of liquids

00:14:27

and miscible layers of flowing color.

00:14:30

And it’s wonderful. It’s quite feminine.

00:14:33

It doesn’t speak the way ayahuasca does,

00:14:36

but you become like a camera’s eye.

00:14:40

You just become a roving eye, a moving eye,

00:14:43

seeing incredible things.

00:14:47

And it had a reputation when it was first discovered

00:14:52

the alkaloid was isolated and named telepathy

00:14:55

because it was felt that there were group states of mind going on.

00:15:01

And this is so, this is happening. I mean mean this is what you want to talk about shamanism

00:15:07

this is what it’s about these people upriver bare-ass people not people working in sawmills

00:15:14

but the still uncontacted or barely contacted people the elders take this stuff together and they rise into a higher dimension of social data,

00:15:30

is the only way to put it.

00:15:31

In other words, they see the group,

00:15:35

the predicament in a hyper-dimensional matrix of some sort

00:15:38

where weather and game levels

00:15:42

and social relations with other groups and all this stuff are factored in

00:15:46

and then collectively they make a decision

00:15:48

and I went to the Amazon

00:15:52

very interested in this because I think

00:15:55

that part of what this whole

00:15:58

incipient breakthrough

00:16:01

that we’re talking about is about

00:16:03

is what I call an ontological transformation of language.

00:16:08

I believe that language is something which, when done right,

00:16:14

you look at it.

00:16:16

You don’t hear it.

00:16:18

When language is correctly performed, it is something seen.

00:16:23

And this is one of the arts of the high paleolithic that we have

00:16:27

lost. We speak a barbarian speech, ear speech. Ear speech has a very shallow depth of signal.

00:16:40

And these hallucinogenically, these societies rocked in the cradle of hallucinogenic ecstasis

00:16:48

through their shamanism, were living in a kind of poetic hologram,

00:16:55

culturally created poetic hologram.

00:16:57

This is what all this talk about the poetry of high antiquity is attempting to reference,

00:17:06

poetry of high antiquity is attempting to reference you know all this talk about the celts and the tremendous accomplishments of thracia and yugoslavia it’s it’s that language

00:17:13

before male dominance the phonetic alphabet monotheism and all this other stuff confining cultural effects, language was something that you see. And when we take

00:17:29

hallucinogens under group circumstances where there is an intent to have that kind of a linguistic

00:17:35

experience, it occurs. It’s just under the surface. It’s in our biological organization,

00:17:42

but somehow damped by our cultural organization.

00:17:46

Something we have to learn.

00:17:49

Well, this is what shamans knew in high antiquity.

00:17:57

It’s what the peculiar interdimensional beings that I call self-transforming machine elves teach.

00:18:07

It’s what the entities in the other dimension,

00:18:12

the so-called spirit helpers, the allies, I call them the tykes,

00:18:17

these things, this is what they teach, a new ontos of language.

00:18:22

An ontos of language beheld.

00:18:26

Can you imagine if you could see what I mean,

00:18:32

how close that would make us?

00:18:35

How, in fact, if you could see what I mean,

00:18:37

we would be the same person.

00:18:40

Because seeing is so intimately connected with our definition of who we are

00:18:47

that we place no, what do I want to say, leans against it.

00:18:56

We accept what we see.

00:18:58

That’s why when we talk about perfected speech,

00:19:03

someone doing a good job talking,

00:19:05

we say,

00:19:06

he spoke clearly.

00:19:08

It’s a visual metaphor.

00:19:10

Or we say to them,

00:19:11

I see what you mean.

00:19:13

I see what you mean.

00:19:15

Means that for us,

00:19:17

authentic meaning is beheld.

00:19:20

This is because,

00:19:21

this is how we did it

00:19:22

until we fell into history.

00:19:24

History is the realm of the lower dimensional language slice.

00:19:30

Among other things, of course.

00:19:33

Yes, someone else.

00:19:35

Yes.

00:19:36

In terms of language and the visual,

00:19:40

don’t you think there is a genetic connection with the symbols and the images?

00:19:46

I mean, it would be the Jungian archetypes.

00:19:49

But to me, it seems very genetic, the way those images have crossed cultures

00:19:54

probably historically.

00:20:00

I’m not sure whether I agree or not.

00:20:02

Yes, to some extent.

00:20:04

I mean, for instance, there are these repositories of imagery,

00:20:08

and I, being Celtic, get these Celtic images.

00:20:12

But then also I hit nodules of Mayan imagery,

00:20:16

and I’m pretty sure there’s no Mayan genetic stuff floating around in my situation.

00:20:22

I confess, I don’t know,

00:20:25

it’s hard to make sense

00:20:27

or to get a metaphor together

00:20:28

that can encompass the psychedelic experience.

00:20:31

I mean, for example,

00:20:32

here’s a game that can be played on ayahuasca

00:20:35

if it’s stiff.

00:20:38

And that is,

00:20:39

you can just say to the on-rushing stream of vision,

00:20:45

Art Deco.

00:20:48

And suddenly, there’ll be thousands of ashtrays,

00:20:51

cigarette lighters, candy serviettes,

00:20:55

stirring sticks, cocktails,

00:20:57

all tumbling toward you in black space.

00:21:00

And then you can say, you know,

00:21:04

Italian Baroque. And here it can say you know Italian Baroque and here it comes you

00:21:07

know these bleeding Madonna’s and oldest gold brocade and well that’s pretty then

00:21:13

you can say to it hey surprise me and the level of surprise will begin to rise until you say, you’ve surprised me enough.

00:21:27

You know, the first two examples,

00:21:32

Art Deco and Italian Baroque,

00:21:34

these are coherent styles which affected whole eras

00:21:39

and involved the lives of hundreds of artists and so forth.

00:21:42

Well, then what’s happening with number three,

00:21:44

the surprise me, where you’ve never seen anything like this before? Is it also potentially capable

00:21:51

of seizing a decade or two by the throat and stamping every t-shirt and belt buckle with its

00:21:58

kiss? And then what are these things, these galaxies of stylistic motifs

00:22:05

that you encounter in the hyperspace of the mind

00:22:09

very bizarre

00:22:10

I confess, you know, there are no

00:22:13

I don’t think this stuff has limits

00:22:15

I think we’ve hit meaning’s edge here

00:22:19

it’s a tool

00:22:21

here’s what it is

00:22:23

it’s for anybody who has ever defined life as a quest

00:22:27

or a path or a search or a mystery.

00:22:33

It’s like you’ve hit the main vein.

00:22:36

It is a path.

00:22:37

It is a quest.

00:22:38

There is a mystery.

00:22:40

And when you get to the mystery,

00:22:42

it’s better than you thought it would be

00:22:45

it’s better than you could think it would be

00:22:47

hell it’s the mystery

00:22:48

that’s what it is

00:22:50

and you say I never thought

00:22:51

I doubted all the way

00:22:52

the whole time I was looking

00:22:53

I never thought

00:22:54

and yet you know

00:22:56

and it pays back

00:22:57

and you don’t have to sign up

00:22:58

with the rattlesnake people

00:23:00

and the men who wear dresses

00:23:02

and all this clergy

00:23:03

and dogma and malarkey.

00:23:06

That isn’t it, you know.

00:23:08

The mystery is real.

00:23:09

It can take the heat.

00:23:10

Can you?

00:23:12

That’s the question.

00:23:15

How I do digress.

00:23:18

Yes.

00:23:21

I would like you to comment on how these psychedelics give us access to part of the mind that we don’t even imagine,

00:23:30

and how this can be used.

00:23:37

Their answer has different depths. the first answer is it’s as though

00:23:45

there were a nearby dimension

00:23:48

that is made out of art

00:23:50

made out of art

00:23:52

great art

00:23:54

in one of these deep passes

00:23:58

which last about 20 minutes

00:24:01

you feel like you have seen more art

00:24:04

than the human race has produced in the last 500 years minutes, you feel like you have seen more art than the human race has produced

00:24:06

in the last 500 years.

00:24:08

You, one person.

00:24:10

The richness of our inner life

00:24:15

is truly awesome.

00:24:18

I mean, you know when they sent that probe

00:24:21

out to Jupiter and hung it above these storms 11,000 miles wide

00:24:27

and that sort of thing.

00:24:28

That kind of stuff is in your mind.

00:24:31

We have been so sold down the river by materialism.

00:24:36

I mean, we’re living in a paradisical palace

00:24:40

and our task is to communicate this to each other.

00:24:44

And our task is to communicate this to each other.

00:24:54

So the unifying and politically salvational aspect of psychedelics is that by showing us all this beauty,

00:24:58

I think it allows secular, reasonable people

00:25:05

to return to faith in the order of things.

00:25:11

This is real religion.

00:25:15

This is why religion was created in the first place.

00:25:18

Animals don’t need religion

00:25:20

unless there’s something to respond to.

00:25:22

And this is what it is,

00:25:23

that there is a secret about this planet,

00:25:27

about the way things are here,

00:25:29

and that you find out the secret

00:25:32

by digging in the sub-basement of your own mind.

00:25:36

And then you come upon the lost records,

00:25:40

the true history of your family.

00:25:44

And it’s as though

00:25:46

I keep making these metaphors of dysfunctional relationships

00:25:50

but it’s as though we are amnesic

00:25:52

we suffer from this dysfunctional relationship

00:25:57

in prehistory

00:25:58

literally being torn from the arms of the goddess

00:26:01

plunged into male dominance

00:26:04

by climatological catastrophe,

00:26:07

and then left to wander.

00:26:10

And we’re haunted by this sense

00:26:13

of a perfect world,

00:26:16

somehow lost,

00:26:18

of a way of being,

00:26:20

somehow sensed,

00:26:22

and then all these religions are hammering at us,

00:26:25

do it this way, do it that way.

00:26:27

And we’re just uncomfortable in reality.

00:26:35

And it’s because we are amnesic.

00:26:38

We have lost something.

00:26:40

The world is being pulled over our eyes.

00:26:43

We are operating on one cylinder.

00:26:45

We don’t understand about how there is this tremendous, affectionate, helping intellect

00:26:56

that would like to help us through this for its sake as much as our own.

00:27:02

So getting in touch with that, and you can call it getting in touch with

00:27:06

the other half of your mind, or getting in touch with your unconscious, or getting in touch with

00:27:11

the planet, or getting in touch with the, you know, over mind in hyperspace. The point is,

00:27:19

there is an organized, intelligent universe of meaning that is trying to break through

00:27:26

into the chaotic human world.

00:27:29

It’s the plan from the unconscious.

00:27:32

And we are frozen, twisted.

00:27:36

It’s been a long, rough ride.

00:27:38

We can hardly see straight.

00:27:40

And yet, you know, we need to back down,

00:27:42

step aside, and surrender.

00:27:45

And the voices are being heard.

00:27:47

We know what needs to be done.

00:27:50

It’s that ideology must be abandoned.

00:27:54

Nature must be served.

00:27:57

The future must be served.

00:28:00

I mean, these are hardly argumentative positions,

00:28:06

yet who the hell is taking them?

00:28:09

And yet we must.

00:28:11

So anything which is a catalyst to that kind of consciousness

00:28:16

is definitely in play here at the end of the world.

00:28:26

Yeah.

00:28:29

I want to tell you that I really love what you’re saying

00:28:32

and it’s validated my perception and I really appreciate it.

00:28:38

Now, I’ve taken a lot of psychedelics

00:28:43

and at a certain point I became confused.

00:28:47

It was very difficult for me to live within the morality of the society, to live within society and, you know, to function and to live.

00:28:58

So I would love to hear more of your personal experience of how you aligned taking psychedelics

00:29:06

and living in the world.

00:29:09

Thank you.

00:29:10

Good question.

00:29:11

The best advice I can give you

00:29:13

is don’t say everything you think.

00:29:18

That’s how I do it.

00:29:29

well I mean the question is an important one

00:29:32

many times when I first started doing this

00:29:35

in 83, 4, 5

00:29:37

after talks like this people would come up to me

00:29:40

and they would say until I heard you talk

00:29:44

I thought I was crazy and And I’ve never told anybody

00:29:48

any of these things that happened to me because my trips seem to be, other people seem to be having

00:29:53

a good time. And what was happening to me was what you’re talking about. And part of the motivation for doing this is to build a community of agreement that can allow people to say the kinds of things that I say about self-transforming machine elves from hyperspace and nobody reaches for a white telephone. phone. You know, they say, oh, he’s talking about that, or he’s talking about his visions. In other words, to give people permission to have an inner life, a rich inner life, because

00:30:33

it’s there. So building community and clarifying language is very, very important. You know,

00:30:42

it’s illegal to take drugs or sell drugs or whatever it is. So we don’t

00:30:47

really have much practice even building up among ourselves images of what we’re talking about.

00:30:54

Probably most people in this room, except for, well, and even them, I was going to say except

00:31:00

for the cops, but even them, everybody in this room has a notion of what’s going on

00:31:07

when I say drug experience.

00:31:10

Everybody says, oh, it’s like the time I…

00:31:13

But no.

00:31:16

Having had a drug experience

00:31:18

doesn’t qualify you

00:31:21

for talking about psychedelics

00:31:24

or thinking you understand them. And even taking psychedelics doesn’t qualify you for talking about psychedelics or thinking you understand them.

00:31:25

And even taking psychedelics doesn’t qualify you for talking about them or thinking you understand them.

00:31:31

They are not to be extrapolated from anything else.

00:31:36

It is unique.

00:31:38

The fact that it’s even called intoxication is a joke.

00:31:41

It’s more as though there is a doorway into either another part of our mind

00:31:48

or another part of the space-time continuum. And I’m, you know, pretty Amish on this. It’s a very

00:31:56

narrow band of substances that do the thing that I find most fascinating, and you’re certainly free to disagree with me, but I place great stress on vision, on hallucinations.

00:32:10

And people say, well, why?

00:32:11

It makes you feel good, you have great insights.

00:32:14

Why are you always harping on vision?

00:32:17

Because being sort of a reductionist,

00:32:20

the visions are the part of it that convince me that it isn’t me,

00:32:26

because I can examine the visions and say,

00:32:29

but an emotion or an insight, what would be the point in saying that isn’t me?

00:32:38

But the visions are coming from somewhere else, other than the self. Or if this is the self,

00:32:47

then it’s unrecognizable.

00:32:49

The Jungian cartography

00:32:51

did not set us up for it.

00:32:53

It did set us up

00:32:55

for what LSD is showing.

00:32:56

But when you go deeper,

00:32:58

like with DMT,

00:33:00

the Jungian maps are useless.

00:33:02

You don’t know where you are

00:33:03

and you don’t think anybody’s ever been here before.

00:33:07

I mean, there are no initials on the trees, let me tell you.

00:33:13

So part of the answer to this what is to be done question

00:33:20

and the political question and the question up here

00:33:23

about integrating it into our lives and what I’m trying to do i mean i should just be up front with you is it’s a very conscious

00:33:30

and subversive effort to uh goose along the evolution of language we can’t create a new world unless we can talk about it.

00:33:48

And so the forced evolution of language,

00:33:54

the forced and rational and designed expansion of the capacity of language is our best way to get out of this mess.

00:33:58

We have problems we don’t even know we have

00:34:00

because we don’t have words to talk about them.

00:34:03

The psychedelics operating on the

00:34:05

social level where we’re talking about not my trip

00:34:08

your trip but what does it do to millions of people

00:34:11

it enriches language

00:34:14

it incites colorful speech

00:34:18

it provokes metaphor

00:34:20

know what I mean?

00:34:23

so that and that’s what it was doing way back then, and it gave us

00:34:27

language and all these control languages that flowed from it. But now we can consciously

00:34:33

contemplate that effect and attempt to engineer it and attempt to create languages that make

00:34:42

these dimensions real, that give them a political consequence, that give permission to other people to think about them, to explore about them, to wonder about them.

00:34:53

And by this means, very slowly, let us hope fast enough, attention will evolve.

00:35:03

And it’s basically, you know, as fast as we each care to participate in this project and it’s not easy

00:35:09

see the initial political challenges is to get stoned and

00:35:14

People resist that because they’ve got something to lose or they think they’ve got something to lose

00:35:20

So it’s it’s very tough political work

00:35:27

Over here. So, it seems that in that metaphor, we’re stuck. We can see it, we can feel it, but we can’t quite bridge it. We can’t get beyond it.

00:35:56

And go along with what we’re saying as far as the domain of language. I know we’ve got to be beyond this one well

00:36:05

I agree with you

00:36:06

a hundred percent

00:36:06

Hansen’s work

00:36:08

and Borelli’s work

00:36:09

and all those

00:36:11

but

00:36:13

if we’re continually

00:36:14

using the metaphor

00:36:15

and the myth

00:36:18

and shifting it

00:36:18

how are we going to

00:36:20

get on it

00:36:20

because all we’re doing

00:36:22

is shifting it

00:36:23

well

00:36:24

when we go beyond language,

00:36:26

are we going to discover

00:36:27

silence or song?

00:36:30

That’s what I think.

00:36:31

I mean,

00:36:32

I think that this

00:36:33

visual language thing

00:36:36

needs to be thought about

00:36:39

very carefully.

00:36:41

For a long time,

00:36:43

it seemed to me

00:36:44

it was unbridgeable. It was a creature of my own

00:36:47

imagination. But technologies exist and are being perfected that are going to allow us to see each

00:36:57

other’s aesthetic intent, to be able to follow the footprints of the artist through his own imagination in a kind of virtual reality.

00:37:10

And I think probably we’re headed for some kind of quasi-telepathic meltdown

00:37:15

and that the ego, its life is limited.

00:37:20

And we have no idea how profoundly this will affect each of us

00:37:23

because we may like to think we’re new style,

00:37:27

but when it comes to the real trans-techno-polymorphically perverse

00:37:33

multi-cyber human being,

00:37:35

I don’t know how many of us could cut the mustard.

00:37:37

Yeah.

00:37:49

Well, but I don’t want to get into a dualism here see I think all terms are migrating toward each other

00:37:52

the drugs of the future

00:37:55

will be computers

00:37:57

the computers of the future will be drugs

00:38:00

one way of thinking of the historical enterprise

00:38:04

is that what we’re about here is

00:38:07

we’re trying to turn human beings inside out we want to exteriorize the soul and interiorize the

00:38:18

body so that the body becomes an image of some sort freely commanded in a domain

00:38:25

called the imagination

00:38:27

and the soul, previously difficult to locate

00:38:31

becomes actually a cultural artifact

00:38:34

I imagine it rather like a polished silver disc

00:38:38

and that exteriorized soul

00:38:42

becomes the new

00:38:44

loci of self-identification.

00:38:50

If any of you have followed Julian Jayne’s work, you know that he thinks the ego arose

00:38:55

in Homeric times, that recently, 1500 BC.

00:39:01

Yeats, in Sailing to Byzantium, this wonderful line something about if ever out of nature

00:39:07

I should be turned

00:39:09

it’s all about becoming a jeweled object

00:39:13

the thing of gold and gold enameling

00:39:15

to play for an emperor

00:39:18

it’s the image of the transformation

00:39:21

of the human soul

00:39:24

into a technical object.

00:39:26

And a lot of people get their hackles up at this point.

00:39:29

The image which I think unifies all this stuff is the flying saucer.

00:39:34

I mentioned in my main talk the transcendental object at the end of history,

00:39:39

but nobody rose to debate.

00:39:40

The notion here you see is that the reason things are so nuts is because we are

00:39:51

actually in very close to some kind of temporal discontinuity. And the phenomenon of history itself is the shockwave of an eminent eschaton, if you will. In other words, the reason history

00:40:10

exists is because of the nearby presence in time of a transcendental object, which I call the

00:40:17

eschaton, which is casting a kind of lower dimensional shadow backward through time so that all these messiahs and aesthetic anticipations

00:40:29

and prophecies and all this are distorted interpretations

00:40:33

of this transcendental object.

00:40:36

And the flying saucer is this as well.

00:40:40

The flying saucer haunts time like a ghost.

00:40:44

What is it?

00:40:44

It’s the cursor on God’s reality processor. well, the flying saucer haunts time like a ghost. What is it?

00:40:49

It’s the cursor on God’s reality processor.

00:40:54

If you’ve ever worked in word processing,

00:40:58

you know that there’s a little blinking thing called the cursor.

00:41:02

And you move the cursor in the text to the place where you either want to put something in or take

00:41:05

something out. And once you have made the excision or the inclusion, you move the cursor

00:41:12

elsewhere in the text. And this is what the UFO is. It’s like a ricocheting reflection of God’s mind at the end of time

00:41:26

and to cross it, to come into its aura

00:41:32

is to get this tremendous hit of the weird

00:41:34

this is what the weird is as a matter of fact

00:41:37

the weird is the backward flowing casuistry from the object at the end of time.

00:41:45

And the reason the 20th century is so fraught with contradiction, paradox, hope, horror,

00:41:53

is because we are drawing tangential to this transcendental object.

00:41:59

And every time you take a psychedelic, you are in eternity with the transcendental logic.

00:42:04

You take a psychedelic, you are in eternity with the transcendental logic.

00:42:08

You see it dead ahead 22 years,

00:42:11

and you’re closing with it at the speed of light or something.

00:42:21

And it is what causes the phenomenon of ourselves being drawn out of nature.

00:42:23

There is a drama.

00:42:27

There is a wooing. There is a royal marriage, an alchemical process underway, and we’re the bride, and we are being drawn toward this

00:42:35

union with this thing, which is what history was for. History is the placenta of this process to carry us to this moment of fusion

00:42:46

where everything then falls together,

00:42:50

makes sense, lifts off, closes down,

00:42:53

and says goodnight.

00:42:56

That’s all.

00:43:03

Die hard.

00:43:06

With ayahuasca, do you have a sense of witnessing

00:43:11

that you’re having experience when you take an ayahuasca

00:43:15

or is it sometimes changing them?

00:43:20

Ayahuasca is these moving walls and membranes

00:43:25

it’s a labyrinth

00:43:28

the interesting thing about ayahuasca is

00:43:34

chemically that it is made of neurohumoral substrate

00:43:39

technically there’s no drug there

00:43:41

there’s DMT and beta carbolines

00:43:44

both of which occur endogenously in human metabolism.

00:43:47

It’s a kind of brain cocktail.

00:43:50

That’s why it has evolutionary implications, potentially.

00:43:56

It’s possible that in the metabolic pathways of the pineal,

00:44:03

we’re only a one or two gene mutation away

00:44:06

from switching out

00:44:08

an inactive cogener

00:44:12

for a psychoactive cogener in that pathway

00:44:14

and in fact this may have been traded off

00:44:17

genetically through time

00:44:19

there may be shamanic lines

00:44:21

there may be people who have a facility

00:44:23

for these things that is

00:44:25

actually in the genes but the to me the most spectacular hallucinogenesis occurs

00:44:35

under DMT and DMT it’s interesting it’s worth talking about for a moment because

00:44:41

it too is an endogenous neurotransmitter. Even though it’s a

00:44:46

schedule one drug, everybody’s carrying it all the time. You know, they don’t need anything else on

00:44:54

the books. We’re all illegal as we sit here. But what’s interesting about DMT is it’s the strongest of all these hallucinogens.

00:45:08

And then it comes on in a few seconds, 30 to 40 seconds,

00:45:12

and yet it fades in a matter of four to five minutes.

00:45:17

Well, now, what does this mean pharmacologically?

00:45:20

You see, one way of thinking about a drug,

00:45:22

if you’re thinking, you know, trying to assess toxicity,

00:45:26

is how long does the drug stay in your system?

00:45:31

If you have rubbery knees and blurred vision 48 hours after doing something, it’s garbage.

00:45:39

You know, your body should be able to get rid of it.

00:45:41

Well, DMT clears your system in three to seven minutes. It means it’s like hurling an ice cube into a blast furnace. It means that

00:45:50

when the DMT hits the synaptic cleft, these enzyme systems swing into action

00:45:55

and say, oh, we understand what this is. We know how to dealkylate, deanimate, and

00:45:59

shuttle this into harmless pathways like indolecetic acid and then you come down almost as fast as it can be

00:46:06

said yet it’s the most profound of all of these things conveys you instantly into a place so

00:46:14

bewilderingly and titanically bizarre and profound that your jaw hangs in the air. A place you never suspected existed.

00:46:27

Not a hint, not a jot, not an iota.

00:46:30

You never dreamed it was possible.

00:46:32

And suddenly, there you are.

00:46:39

This is profound information about the human organism,

00:46:44

about ourselves, about who we are. Who are you if that can happen to you?

00:46:47

It’s a very mysterious part of you.

00:46:50

We go back and probe the orgasm thing over and over again.

00:46:56

But this is much more intense, much more content-laden.

00:47:01

And yet what is all this content, these weird objects?

00:47:05

Where are they coming

00:47:05

from

00:47:06

what does

00:47:06

it mean

00:47:06

who are

00:47:07

these entities

00:47:08

in there

00:47:08

are they

00:47:10

you know

00:47:10

wandering

00:47:12

extraterrestrial

00:47:13

do-gooders

00:47:14

or

00:47:16

you know

00:47:17

is it

00:47:17

humanity

00:47:18

in a far-flung

00:47:19

future

00:47:20

trying to

00:47:21

pull the

00:47:21

chestnuts

00:47:22

of the

00:47:22

20th century

00:47:23

out of the

00:47:24

fire

00:47:24

or you know is it your

00:47:26

dead grandmother you can’t figure out? And yet, you know, it’s really happening to you. You have

00:47:33

to come to terms with it. I mean, that to me is the strangest thing about all of this stuff,

00:47:38

is that it’s real. It’s like science fiction. It means that the world is science fiction.

00:47:50

It means that there are things and places and possibilities going on that just read the mundane out.

00:47:54

All those people who think the world is straight and rational and reasonable

00:47:57

and squared off at the corners, they’re just whistling past the graveyard.

00:48:02

It is so wild and woolly out there

00:48:05

that you just come back, you know,

00:48:08

eyes round and jaw slung

00:48:11

because it’s so peculiar and so near.

00:48:15

I mean, this culture that we’re living in

00:48:17

is a tiny island,

00:48:19

a bulwark raised against the unspeakable

00:48:22

which is raging all around us.

00:48:25

Hell, every time you hit the sack, it closes over you.

00:48:27

And it’s only through the grace of forgetting that we’re able to reestablish it here.

00:48:33

You know, this tiny little bubble of sanity.

00:48:36

Well, yes, but what’s going on in the rest of reality?

00:48:42

Grab a clue.

00:48:47

Yes. going on in the rest of reality. Grab a clue. Yes? Audience Member 2

00:48:50

Audience Member 3

00:48:53

Audience Member 4

00:48:56

Audience Member 5

00:48:59

Audience Member 6

00:49:02

Audience Member 7 Audience Member 8 No, I think that it’s possible. I’m comfortable with virtual reality. I’m just getting used to it.

00:49:08

So you do it in order to love it?

00:49:10

I do it in order to write articles about it. I visited all these labs.

00:49:15

The heaviest battle I had with my wife this year was over virtual reality

00:49:21

and whether or not it’s just another male mechano-techno-crapo trip or my

00:49:30

position that there might be something going on here. I don’t like it that it’s so machine-like.

00:49:36

On the other hand, all those machines could be shrunk down to the size of a sugar cube.

00:49:41

For those of you who hate the idea of virtual reality, I have an argument that might

00:49:46

sway you. I just saw a paper. God, I hope this isn’t industrially proprietary information.

00:49:55

But anyway, I just saw a paper where these people have a virtual reality system, but they want to

00:50:01

slave it to a satellite navigation system so that it can locate wherever

00:50:07

you are on earth to within three feet and then the proposal is all advertising will be made

00:50:15

illegal in three dimensions and will be forced to go virtual so that you will have to be wearing

00:50:22

glasses and you will see ordinary reality except all the signs will be there.

00:50:28

But if you take the glasses off, the signs will have been taken down in 3D.

00:50:33

No billboards in 3D, no advertising, no print of any sort.

00:50:37

If you want to read the signs, you’re going to have to buy the goggles.

00:50:41

So there’s an argument for virtual reality.

00:50:47

Yeah? goggles. So there’s an argument for virtual reality. Yeah.

00:50:52

How’s that thing in the air-galloping virtual reality tape out there? Can anyone see it?

00:50:53

Hot steer.

00:51:04

Oh, see it. Okay. Oh, they can see it. My apologies. Well, let’s see. One last question, and then you should go do something more interesting.

00:51:07

I hope you can figure out what it is. Go into nature. Go into your own mind. I mean,

00:51:12

the message is rising. The urgency is rising. And, you know, if you have ears to hear, hear,

00:51:20

and eyes to see, see, in terms of what that means practically, and I suppose I should

00:51:27

leave you with this thought, do these things in silent darkness and do them with attention.

00:51:38

Silent darkness. You don’t need Bach or Moody. Just skip it. Silent darkness.

00:51:45

Let, trust that your mind is richer than you think it is.

00:51:50

And study the darkness behind your closed eyelids

00:51:52

with the expectation that you will see something.

00:51:55

And pay attention to breathing and sound, song.

00:52:00

Open your mouth.

00:52:02

Let air move through you.

00:52:04

And five grams of mushrooms

00:52:08

in silent darkness

00:52:09

I’m telling you

00:52:10

it will make a believer out of you

00:52:13

if you aren’t already

00:52:14

good luck

00:52:17

you’re listening to the Psychedelic Salon,

00:52:28

where people are changing their lives one thought at a time.

00:52:32

In case you are relatively new here to the salon,

00:52:37

I should insert that not everybody agrees with Terrence’s idea

00:52:41

of taking five grams of dried mushrooms in silent darkness. Although I have

00:52:47

tried this on more than one occasion, over time I, well, I finally came to the conclusion that

00:52:53

candlelight and music done right can greatly enhance a psychedelic voyage. The secret for me

00:53:00

is to have a wide range of music available and have the ability to easily switch from one mood to another.

00:53:08

Also, I suspect that some of our younger fellow salonners

00:53:12

were chuckling to themselves when Terrence went to great lengths

00:53:16

to explain what a cursor was

00:53:18

and how it works with the word processing program.

00:53:21

Well, before you get too smug,

00:53:24

please keep in mind that this talk was given in

00:53:26

1990, and that was two years before the World Wide Web even came into existence, and well, not all

00:53:33

that many households had a reason to buy a computer yet, so not many people really knew what he was

00:53:39

talking about back then. Well, as this year is now coming to an end, there’s not only the excitement of getting

00:53:47

together with friends, but many of us also take a look ahead and begin making plans for the coming

00:53:53

year. For example, I’m working on talks that I’ll be giving in January at the Entheo Medicine event

00:54:00

in Santa Barbara, and another for the Imagine Conference in March on Orcas Island.

00:54:06

And I suspect that many of our fellow Saloners are also making plans for Burning Man, Lightning

00:54:12

in a Bottle, and others. But I hope that you also keep in mind what John Lennon once said about

00:54:18

making plans for the future. Remember it? He said, and I quote,

00:54:23

Life is what happens while you’re busy making other plans. End quote.

00:54:29

And as hard as it is to focus on that thought,

00:54:33

I find it important to do so whenever it comes to my mind.

00:54:36

Because, well, life, your life, is taking place right now.

00:54:41

The past is gone and the future isn’t here.

00:54:44

Life is always here and now. The past is gone and the future isn’t here. Life is always here and now. So I find it

00:54:47

helpful to seek out the little things each day in an attempt to stay aware and in the moment.

00:54:53

So from time to time, fellow salonners send me a copy of their recent CDs, and while I always

00:55:00

listen to them, it isn’t often that I find the right slot to play one of their songs on a podcast.

00:55:06

So when I received a copy of the latest CD from The Imperfectionists, whose music I played on a

00:55:12

podcast once before, the first thing that struck me was the title, Don’t Get Owned. And if you know

00:55:19

me, you know that that’s a title that would catch my eye. Then I noticed that the release date fell on my youngest son’s birthday.

00:55:27

On top of that, one of the songs was titled Is, Is, Is.

00:55:32

Now, if you’ve been joining our live Monday night salons lately,

00:55:36

you probably remember my telling the story about the mushroom trip I had

00:55:40

where the word is just continually echoed in my mind over and over and over for

00:55:45

hours. So of course I had to listen to this song. And you can imagine the smile on my face when it

00:55:52

began with the words, I’m tripping through a meadow with a very good friend of mine.

00:55:57

We’ve been looking at a flower and having a very good time. However, it was the chorus that really got me, because it ends with the words,

00:56:07

be pleased for the day. These are the days. These are the days of our lives. And my friends,

00:56:15

that’s the message that I hope you can keep in mind as we end one year and begin the next,

00:56:20

because these are the days of our lives. Today, here and now, not next summer, but here

00:56:27

and now is where and when your life is taking place. So make it matter. For now, this is Lorenzo

00:56:34

signing off from cyberdelic space. Be well, my friends, and hey, I’ll leave you with the

00:56:40

imperfectionist recording of their song, Is, Is, Is.

00:57:07

I’m tripping through a meadow With a very good friend of mine

00:57:11

We’ve been looking at a flower

00:57:15

And having a very good time

00:57:19

And if I thought of it before

00:57:23

I’d have brought some wine,

00:57:27

and it is what it is, and I like it that way,

00:57:31

just being here with you is fine.

00:57:35

Be pleased for the day, these are the days, these are the days.

00:57:42

Be pleased for the day, these are the days, these are the days, be pleased for the day.

00:57:52

These are the days, these are the days of our lives. I’m crying, I’m dying

00:58:09

Pain is very real

00:58:12

Do you think I’ll live? I don’t know

00:58:16

Do you think I’ll be able to feel?

00:58:20

If I thought of it before

00:58:24

I would have checked the road

00:58:27

It is what it is

00:58:30

And I like it that way

00:58:31

And I haven’t lost my hope

00:58:35

Be pleased for the day

00:58:37

These are the days

00:58:39

These are the days

00:58:42

Be pleased for the day These are the days These are the days Be pleased for the day

00:58:45

These are the days

00:58:47

These are the days

00:58:50

Of our lives

00:58:53

These are the days

00:59:00

Of our lives. Thank you. guitar solo I’m flowing, I’m blowing, I’m growing every day

01:00:13

And if we flow together well, it might work out that way

01:00:21

And if I thought of it before, I’d have left my pain behind Thank you. These are the days, these are the days. Be pleased for the day, these are the days.

01:00:48

These are the days of our life.

01:00:56

These are the days of our life. Oh, Pauline