Podcast 697 – “The Adventures of Casey Hardison”

Program Notes

Support Lorenzo on Patreon.com

https://www.patreon.com/lorenzohagerty

Guest speaker: Casey Hardison and Patreon Saloners

Today’s podcast features a recording from a recent Live Salon. As usual, the conversation was free-form and didn’t follow any script. One of the people who dropped by for the conversation was Casey Hardison, and his story captivated us.

Links from this salon:

An Amateur Qualitative Study of 48 2C-T-7 Subjective Bioassays

2C-T-7

Transcript

00:00:00 ►

Three-dimensional, transforming, musical, linguistic objects.

00:00:09 ►

Alpha and Omega.

00:00:16 ►

Greetings from cyberdelic space.

00:00:19 ►

This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.

00:00:23 ►

And I’ve got a long program for you today, as this is actually a significant day here in the Psychedelic Salon. And I’ve got a long program for you today,

00:00:26 ►

as this is actually a significant day here in the salon. This is the end of our 19th year of

00:00:32 ►

podcasting, but never fear, next Monday we’ll feature the first podcast of our 20th year.

00:00:39 ►

So for today’s podcast, I thought it would be nice to let you know what I’ve always thought the salon is actually about, and podcasting is only a part of it. Now, if you are like one of our fellow

00:00:50 ►

salonners who listens to these podcasts on SoundCloud, I should warn you that this intro

00:00:56 ►

is going to be longer than five minutes. And the reason I mention that is because here’s a recent

00:01:03 ►

message I received via SoundCloud, and I quote,

00:01:07 ►

We don’t need to hear your rambling for five minutes at the beginning of every podcast. End quote.

00:01:14 ►

Well, I take no offense, because as P.T. Barnum once said,

00:01:18 ►

it doesn’t matter what people say about you as long as they spell your name right.

00:01:23 ►

So, here is my state of the salon talk.

00:01:27 ►

Back in 2001, I was testing some new communication software that Bruce Dahmer and his team were

00:01:33 ►

developing. This was long before Zoom. It was audio only and super secure. So I thought,

00:01:41 ►

if it’s so secure, well, why not test it with something that couldn’t be discussed on the phone, if you know what I mean.

00:01:48 ►

And that is how the salon began.

00:01:51 ►

It was me, Wild Bill, Dr. Tom, and Nick Sand.

00:01:55 ►

Dr. Tom and Nick Sand, now, they spoke in a language that Bill and I didn’t know.

00:02:00 ►

It was the language of deep chemistry.

00:02:02 ►

And then they went on to concoct some molecules while Bill and I tested for them.

00:02:08 ►

It was our own little salon, and in July of 2001, I purchased the URL psychedelicsalon.com.

00:02:17 ►

And that’s how it began, as an actual salon.

00:02:21 ►

In March of 2005, I decided to find out what this new podcasting thing was all about,

00:02:28 ►

and that is when the first podcast from the salon went online. But let me be clear, the salon itself

00:02:34 ►

was almost four years old by then. However, I eventually began thinking of the salon as a

00:02:40 ►

podcast myself. Then sometime in 2018, I remembered how much fun we had in those first

00:02:47 ►

days at the salon when it was an actual salon. And since Zoom had come around by then, I began

00:02:54 ►

the first of what I’ve been calling our live salons. There were only, I guess, five or six

00:02:59 ►

people in that first one, but Charles Lighthouse was one of them, and with his encouragement,

00:03:05 ►

first one, but Charles Lighthouse was one of them, and with his encouragement, I began doing a live salon every week. Eventually, I wanted to connect with fellow salonners in other time zones, and so

00:03:12 ►

I began doing two salons a week, 6 30 p.m. on Monday and 11 30 a.m. on Thursday, both Pacific time.

00:03:20 ►

Then came COVID and the lockdowns, and suddenly there were dozens of people joining our live salons.

00:03:27 ►

So I began doing four of them a week, but we’re back down to two a week now.

00:03:33 ►

Until now, the reason that I haven’t talked about these live salons very much is because I’ve focused them on my dear friends who support me on Patreon.

00:03:42 ►

They are the ones who have kept me from being one of those

00:03:45 ►

old guy greeters at Walmart, and I owe them a lot. Now, since a lot of people can’t make it to a live

00:03:52 ►

salon, I record each of them and post the audio on my Patreon account. Right now, there are over

00:03:58 ►

280 recordings of our live salons that are posted there. Things we’ve talked about have ranged from ways to increase the potency of cannabis,

00:04:07 ►

to how to prepare anamida muscaria mushrooms,

00:04:10 ►

and what it was like to do acid with Albert Hoffman.

00:04:14 ►

And, of course, there have been many other wild stories as well.

00:04:18 ►

But none of the stories we’ve heard so far are nearly as fascinating

00:04:22 ►

as the one I’m going to play for you right now.

00:04:26 ►

I don’t remember what my suggested topic was for this salon, but we seldom get to that proposed topic anyway.

00:04:32 ►

Then, this past Thursday, my old friend Casey Hardison dropped by to join us, as he has a few

00:04:38 ►

times before. But it surprised me to learn that not everyone there was aware of Casey’s exploits,

00:04:44 ►

and so they began asking him some probing questions.

00:04:47 ►

The result, as you’re about to hear, was an excellent example of what a live salon can be.

00:04:53 ►

And if you also don’t like listening to these long introductions,

00:04:57 ►

you can become a $1 a month supporter on Patreon.

00:05:00 ►

Had you done so, you would have already heard this recording because I posted it there last week, without an introduction.

00:05:08 ►

Now here is what the give and take of a live salon is like.

00:05:16 ►

So, besides poppies, is there any other news coming out of the community today

00:05:25 ►

you’re you’re muted there i know you know

00:05:32 ►

oh what a what a launching off to an epic start uh the um the people who don’t people don’t get high

00:05:42 ►

when they first smoke weed.

00:05:48 ►

I couldn’t, I didn’t have access to it in my region. Can you,

00:05:51 ►

can you believe that they won’t even leave that?

00:05:54 ►

Not only won’t they legalize the leaf and the flower, they, they prevent me from like reading certain,

00:05:58 ►

certain segments of the internet.

00:06:01 ►

Now, is that just your region of the UK or is that all of the UK?

00:06:05 ►

You know what?

00:06:06 ►

It said 404, your region, and I just shut the window.

00:06:10 ►

Have you considered using a VPN?

00:06:13 ►

I have considered using a VPN.

00:06:18 ►

But, I mean, I would have to do something.

00:06:25 ►

Sometimes it’s easier to just exist.

00:06:27 ►

I haven’t used one in a while.

00:06:29 ►

Is anybody using one here that can say it’s a good one?

00:06:32 ►

Go ahead, Casey.

00:06:34 ►

So I’m in Reno right now.

00:06:36 ►

I’m using a residential Starlink, and I’m using a VPN from Proton.

00:06:40 ►

Proton.

00:06:42 ►

And I can put, I mean, we could have 10 streaming channels in this house right now

00:06:45 ►

and you wouldn’t notice the difference.

00:06:49 ►

Wow.

00:06:49 ►

So Proton, so I’m a

00:06:51 ►

Proton Visionary subscriber.

00:06:54 ►

They, so when CERN launched

00:06:55 ►

You can just leave it at Proton Visionary.

00:06:58 ►

Yeah, anyway, yes.

00:07:00 ►

And

00:07:01 ►

I mean, I can have

00:07:04 ►

a hundredl or domains uh you know at least 10 users for each

00:07:10 ►

of those domains each of them get 10 vpn connections and it costs me like 250 250 260 a

00:07:17 ►

year right now um and um i’m in all my, I got plenty of them.

00:07:28 ►

Dividing my conversations are on VPN.

00:07:34 ►

Yeah, I use Proton email for with certain people, not everybody, but some of us use them. I think Rich uses it and a few others.

00:07:38 ►

So I feel really comfortable with Proton email, actually.

00:07:42 ►

Yeah.

00:07:42 ►

I’m surprised you don’t use one there, Lorenzo.

00:07:46 ►

You’re usually so paranoid

00:07:48 ►

about the government.

00:07:49 ►

Oh, I don’t do anything nefarious.

00:07:51 ►

And when I do, it’s

00:07:53 ►

not through this machine that’s sitting on my

00:07:55 ►

desk.

00:07:58 ►

Each

00:07:59 ►

Proton regular email account, where you

00:08:01 ►

just go in and get the free account, comes with

00:08:03 ►

one VPN. Oh, really? Yes. And there’s Proton regular email account where you just go in and get the free account. It comes with one VPN.

00:08:05 ►

Oh, really?

00:08:06 ►

Yes.

00:08:08 ►

Yeah.

00:08:09 ►

And there’s Proton Drive.

00:08:10 ►

I’m sorry.

00:08:11 ►

Yeah.

00:08:15 ►

There’s Proton Drive and Proton Pass. Proton Pass is really unique in that it’s different from usual password accounts, password holders, in that it allows much larger notes and all sorts of things.

00:08:28 ►

It’s got a really nice functionality in it.

00:08:30 ►

So you can actually have encrypted notes in there.

00:08:33 ►

There’s ways of destroying it if you need to.

00:08:38 ►

Well, I’m glad you brought this up because, you know, I really should look into it again,

00:08:43 ►

particularly doesn’t matter what happens in the election. Either way it goes,

00:08:48 ►

I think we’re going to be much more secure in the future.

00:08:52 ►

So that’s really good information. I’ll go out when we’re done here and

00:08:55 ►

check it out. I’ve used a

00:08:59 ►

VPN from NordVPN

00:09:03 ►

when I was overseas, and that seemed to work pretty good.

00:09:09 ►

I used Nord for a while when I was using it, but I had trouble accessing some of the nodes or something.

00:09:14 ►

I can’t remember what it was a couple of years ago, last time I used it.

00:09:18 ►

But it seemed really good at the time.

00:09:20 ►

I liked it.

00:09:20 ►

But proton, any proton product, I’m going to be more in favor of, I think.

00:09:26 ►

How is it overseas?

00:09:31 ►

Proton’s amazing. Proton’s amazing. It was created by CERN, the guys at CERN.

00:09:35 ►

They created it to secure their data, which is important data to secure for its energetic potential and um i tend to use all encryption

00:09:46 ►

now i make almost no i’d say i am i i have three phones and no need for um regular phone service

00:09:55 ►

um i have a portable vp i have two star links i have a star link that’s for the house and

00:10:02 ►

which literally i could pick up and just hit a button and actually turn it into a mobile one and then i have another mobile one that i take

00:10:08 ►

with me wherever i’m at and just toss it out on the ground or on top of the car just you know

00:10:13 ►

i’ve got communications wherever i go i’m probably going to wind up getting the mobile unit for my

00:10:17 ►

vehicle because that just takes me i mean i gotta i gotta know why all the extra security i mean

00:10:25 ►

what you can tell us here on advice to counsel up no um uh why the extra security i think it’s uh

00:10:33 ►

well first off um um i’m an entheogenic activist and i’ve been of direct action at the chemistry laboratory uh uh in the past and um i really like the uh i’ve

00:10:48 ►

been living you know a lot a lot away off grid solar powered like i moved into town in october

00:10:54 ►

for the first time in years and uh i still have property that’s got it’s way out in the middle

00:11:01 ►

of nowhere it’s got no cell signals so when i went for Starlink, and I’ve been using Proton for organizing my business,

00:11:06 ►

email and stuff like that.

00:11:07 ►

It just, I think that if we make privacy a standard

00:11:12 ►

by our use of it, and it not only legitimizes it,

00:11:16 ►

it creates a larger stream

00:11:19 ►

that they’d have to trove through

00:11:20 ►

just to get other people that we know and love

00:11:22 ►

that are innocent.

00:11:23 ►

Ian, I would add to that.

00:11:25 ►

The reason that I think Casey is legitimately paranoid is your government in

00:11:30 ►

England held him in a cage for many years.

00:11:33 ►

Oh, yeah, Ian.

00:11:34 ►

I was in your, I was in up her majesty’s, you know, where you were not.

00:11:40 ►

You’re what the Australians call a pommy.

00:11:43 ►

Yeah, no, I was.

00:11:44 ►

Yes, I was. You were what the Australians call a pommy. Yeah, no, yes.

00:11:50 ►

I did not get exported to Australia, thankfully.

00:11:54 ►

I was not in the early days of Britain’s exportation of criminals. But I have now been deported as a foreign criminal.

00:12:00 ►

I mean, it’s now over 10 years since then.

00:12:02 ►

And as a matter of fact, February 13th, my 20-year sentence, Lorenzo, expired.

00:12:10 ►

And that means I’m still a foreign criminal. There’s still a foreign deportation order out on me.

00:12:15 ►

But if I can convince the home office to rescind it, I might come visit you and show you how to use VPN.

00:12:20 ►

Sweet. Wow. So you, so this is,

00:12:27 ►

so you are in effect in digital hiding.

00:12:30 ►

Well, I mean, I’m, I’m, I mean,

00:12:35 ►

they probably can figure out where I’m at if they want it, but what I,

00:12:39 ►

but what I’ve stopped is their ability to intrude on my conversations easily.

00:12:41 ►

I mean,

00:12:46 ►

I consult with people that certainly need their innocence protected.

00:12:50 ►

Casey, I actually know someone who broke out of jail.

00:12:51 ►

It wasn’t a prison.

00:12:56 ►

I broke out of a jail in an English jail and made it to America.

00:13:00 ►

And so he was probably considered a foreign criminal.

00:13:01 ►

It was my grandfather.

00:13:02 ►

Yay. Always skips a generation

00:13:08 ►

and casey i i want to say hey i’ve uh chatted with you a little bit on twitter i go by dr

00:13:16 ►

richard waterloo uh working on reality tunnel stuff and i guess this is the first time we’ve

00:13:21 ►

met so hey hey rich lovely doctor uh, I’ll look you up for water.

00:13:27 ►

I’ll figure this out.

00:13:29 ►

Poke me on Twitter, will you?

00:13:30 ►

Shitter.

00:13:31 ►

You got to pronounce it shitter now

00:13:32 ►

because the X is pronounced like she.

00:13:35 ►

Shitter.

00:13:35 ►

Oh, like the Nawa.

00:13:36 ►

Yeah.

00:13:37 ►

I like that.

00:13:38 ►

Yeah.

00:13:39 ►

It’s, yeah, it’s fun.

00:13:41 ►

So, Casey, for those of us who have no idea what’s going on but are very

00:13:47 ►

much interested uh what did you do uh oh can you say that you’re innocent obviously but what did

00:13:53 ►

they oh yeah no it’s like so what i did is i actually said you can’t make me guilty by statute

00:13:59 ►

for actions which are intrinsically innocent and what i did intrinsically innocently is i took

00:14:03 ►

lsd and decided I wanted to study

00:14:05 ►

and become an LSD chemist and make it.

00:14:07 ►

And then I did.

00:14:09 ►

And I had a great time and gave a bunch of it away.

00:14:13 ►

But I was, you know, in my shameless proselytizing,

00:14:15 ►

I, you know, left myself open to criminal enforcement.

00:14:22 ►

Well, Ian, the article I read said that when they busted him,

00:14:26 ►

it was the largest laboratory bust in the history of the UK. And it wasn’t just for LSD. There were

00:14:32 ►

other chemicals. I was making six different things at the same time. And I mean, you might as well

00:14:36 ►

get busy. And they called it, I’d say I got a little, you know, monogram in the DEA monograms. And I also got notoriously on some of the home office publications as the most and the Interpol and Europol is the most sophisticated lab busted in their history.

00:14:56 ►

And it wasn’t really that sophisticated in my mind.

00:14:59 ►

This was 20 years ago.

00:15:01 ►

Yeah.

00:15:02 ►

Oh, and he defended himself in court too yes on the basis of that innocence

00:15:06 ►

and obviously equal protection equal rights and uh article 9 cognitive liberty under the

00:15:12 ►

european convention of human rights freedom of thought you did it in an american accent though

00:15:18 ►

didn’t you uh of course i did of course i’t. I wasn’t trying to mock the judge.

00:15:27 ►

Yeah.

00:15:28 ►

They call us,

00:15:30 ►

they call us septics.

00:15:33 ►

Because septic tank.

00:15:34 ►

So yank.

00:15:35 ►

Yanks.

00:15:35 ►

Yeah.

00:15:37 ►

Fucking septics.

00:15:37 ►

Yeah.

00:15:38 ►

Yeah.

00:15:39 ►

The cockney rhyming slang.

00:15:40 ►

Yeah.

00:15:40 ►

Yeah.

00:15:46 ►

You’ve been living there almost at the time he got busted weren’t you 20 years ago

00:15:47 ►

I’ve been here for 20 years

00:15:48 ►

where you at Ian

00:15:50 ►

well I’m

00:15:53 ►

encrypted so it’s going to require

00:15:55 ►

some further ID

00:15:56 ►

he was in London until recently and he’s been gone

00:15:59 ►

for a couple years now

00:16:01 ►

yeah I was in London for most of it

00:16:03 ►

now I’m in uh devon and

00:16:05 ►

quieter out there quieter out there yeah rainy quiet we’re worthy we’re the 30 30 minutes from

00:16:13 ►

the end of the line but it sounds like you’ve got more uh sounds like you got more space from

00:16:17 ►

the city if you just went into town no i well i uh well that property uh i’ve been living on for quite some time is over northern California, north of Nevada City, and it’s 45 minutes to town.

00:16:31 ►

It’s eight acres.

00:16:31 ►

It’s nice.

00:16:32 ►

I got running water all year.

00:16:34 ►

How often do you go into town?

00:16:36 ►

Well, right now, I’m actually living in town.

00:16:38 ►

I’m in town.

00:16:39 ►

Okay.

00:16:41 ►

So one of the questions that I often throw know well i one of the questions that i often

00:16:47 ►

throw at people is like the difference but in the the difference between the uk and britain

00:16:53 ►

or london and new york is where would you rather be incarcerated and everybody falls on the british

00:16:59 ►

end of the spectrum uh were you in belmarsh where were you oh no i was in uh so where’d i start so i started

00:17:05 ►

in uh hmp lewis uh which is basically brighton’s uh holding place and uh i’m i’m like three hours

00:17:16 ►

from the burn right now the burning man so i just want to let you know that that’s where i’m at now

00:17:20 ►

this is burning man when it was all wet and muddy nice Nice photo. But so I started at HMP Lewis.

00:17:26 ►

I was arrested in Brighton at a cafe called the Sanctuary in Hove, which obviously wasn’t much of a sanctuary because I got arrested in it.

00:17:33 ►

And the I had my trial there at Lewis Crown Court, which is quite interesting, which is that it’s the it’s the hometown of Thomas Paine,

00:17:42 ►

who, you know, founded, you know, was part of the founding of the American Revolution.

00:17:47 ►

And to sit there in those old jail cells.

00:17:50 ►

Yeah, to sit there in those old jail cells, those old prison cells, where, you know, he was actually in that court.

00:17:59 ►

He was convicted of sedition against the crown, but he’d already left.

00:18:03 ►

So he got away with it but his old house

00:18:06 ►

is right there just down the street like you know they they take me from the prison to the courthouse

00:18:10 ►

and uh which had his own jail cells down below which were old and dank and uh i go right by

00:18:16 ►

thomas pain’s you know white heart in every every death every day anyway so uh then I went from there to, what is that place? It’s out on Isle of Wight. It’s Parkhurst, went to Parkhurst.

00:18:32 ►

Parkhurst, yeah.

00:18:33 ►

Which people successfully used a helicopter. Some Irish IRA people got the helicopter to come to land and take them out of there.

00:18:44 ►

but now it was no longer the ACAT, the high security prison.

00:18:47 ►

But then I went from there to Isle of Sheppey,

00:18:53 ►

which is stab side, HMP stab side or swale side.

00:18:55 ►

I actually, strangely enough,

00:18:59 ►

they sent me to a second stage lifers prison,

00:19:00 ►

which is swale side. So I would like walk in and I’m in a,

00:19:04 ►

and I was like, I’m now, everybody around me,

00:19:05 ►

except for a very few people

00:19:07 ►

had killed someone.

00:19:10 ►

And all I did was make some acid.

00:19:12 ►

It was quite an interesting perspective.

00:19:14 ►

How long,

00:19:15 ►

how long were you in for?

00:19:17 ►

3,393 days.

00:19:21 ►

9.7 years.

00:19:23 ►

In that particular Isle of Sheppey

00:19:26 ►

maybe three years

00:19:28 ►

in Sheppey

00:19:29 ►

and then I went to

00:19:32 ►

Wellingborough

00:19:34 ►

Wellingborough

00:19:35 ►

and

00:19:37 ►

you were

00:19:39 ►

among prisoners everywhere you went

00:19:42 ►

I was what?

00:19:44 ►

you were unique among prisoners everywhere you went i was what you were unique among prisoners everywhere you went

00:19:47 ►

like hell yeah because i wasn’t first off i wasn’t running around saying i didn’t do it

00:19:50 ►

and second uh i was shameless and felt great about myself because i’d represented myself

00:19:55 ►

and said what there was to be said and i was making an impact waves um you know around the

00:20:00 ►

world uh taking a friend’s concept of cognitive liberty and turning it into

00:20:05 ►

an actual legal defense, carving out a political statement. Yeah. And I’d gone in, you know,

00:20:14 ►

it’s like, I mean, I went in and I mean, it’s ridiculous. It’s fun to say this. I went in

00:20:17 ►

enlightened. So, you know, you know, in prison, enlightened out of prison enlightened what’s the difference and um it was a great opportunity for me to um sit still

00:20:30 ►

and find my find find more of myself find more of my passions were you were you able to get LSD in prison? Yes. And 2CB

00:20:45 ►

and DMT and 5MEO DMT

00:20:47 ►

and MDMA.

00:20:50 ►

Literally, it was not

00:20:51 ►

a problem. Actually, for a while

00:20:53 ►

we were private guards

00:20:55 ►

and they were bringing in buckets

00:20:57 ►

of shit

00:20:59 ►

for our cell phones, bricks of hash,

00:21:02 ►

whatever we wanted, DVDs.

00:21:04 ►

If that isn’t just a model for the

00:21:06 ►

complete just the complete failure of the drug war like we’re going to put you in a cage for

00:21:12 ►

doing these things and in that cage you can get all the stuff you were selling you know something

00:21:16 ►

you got yeah something you guys might enjoy actually is uh dr david nutt um wound up heading

00:21:21 ►

the advisory council on the misuse of drugs under the misuse of drugs act

00:21:25 ►

and he created that uh with amanda fielding created that uh matrix of harm the nine point

00:21:31 ►

matrix of harm plus that scale that says that alcohol and tobacco are more harmful than lsd

00:21:36 ►

and all that well i was you know i was doing freedom of information requests and actually

00:21:40 ►

did a lawsuit against uh dr david nutt who would then be turned over to Leslie Iverson,

00:21:45 ►

the cannabis specialist. And then eventually I had both like the ACMD, the Advisory Council

00:21:54 ►

on Issues with Drugs, and Theresa May, who would become, who was the home secretary at the time,

00:21:58 ►

in court over my claim that alcohol and tobacco, the treatment of those who are associated

00:22:06 ►

with exercise property rights and alcohol and tobacco

00:22:08 ►

are, I’m not afforded the same treatment in general

00:22:13 ►

and the cognitive liberty ideas.

00:22:17 ►

And the result of the thing was I was banned

00:22:18 ►

from mentioning alcohol and tobacco in English courtrooms

00:22:20 ►

because they didn’t want to deal with the issue.

00:22:23 ►

Yeah, thanks for laughing, Lorenzo.

00:22:25 ►

And it wasn’t until Psychedelic Science 2017

00:22:29 ►

that I walked into a room

00:22:31 ►

and there was David Nutt

00:22:31 ►

and I sat down beside him

00:22:32 ►

and he looked over at me

00:22:33 ►

and he recognized me immediately.

00:22:34 ►

We’d never talked.

00:22:36 ►

And he said,

00:22:36 ►

I thought we were never going to get out.

00:22:40 ►

And so, you know,

00:22:41 ►

there’s been some completion there.

00:22:42 ►

We all thought that, Casey.

00:22:44 ►

We were all thinking that.

00:22:48 ►

Here I am.

00:22:50 ►

Here you are.

00:22:51 ►

Sentence expired.

00:22:53 ►

Free to be, free to act.

00:22:54 ►

All complete.

00:22:56 ►

Were you released early, Casey?

00:22:58 ►

Well, I didn’t resist deportation, so they gave me a nine-month foreign national deportation discount.

00:23:01 ►

deportation, so they gave me a nine-month foreign national deportation

00:23:03 ►

discount.

00:23:05 ►

But I actually got

00:23:06 ►

two extra

00:23:09 ►

weeks for the cell phones.

00:23:12 ►

That’s why the 9.27.

00:23:14 ►

I got two.

00:23:15 ►

I got a week for each cell phone they found me with

00:23:17 ►

over those years.

00:23:19 ►

I had cell phones the whole time, or a cell phone

00:23:21 ►

at least one.

00:23:24 ►

Sometimes I had a decoy cell phone that they could find.

00:23:27 ►

As I recall, you called Matt Pellimer and I several times.

00:23:32 ►

Yes, I did. Thanks for answering.

00:23:37 ►

Yeah, I did. I called Albert Hoffman on that, you know, from my cell.

00:23:42 ►

You know, it’s like I called called so many great people i had such fabulous

00:23:47 ►

support you know a few people really liked my drugs rio in particular i remember you like them

00:23:58 ►

yeah you know the uh um it’s really interesting because the nine year,

00:24:06 ►

like the nine and 10 year dates of my incarceration just slid by without,

00:24:11 ►

you know,

00:24:11 ►

a lot of them,

00:24:12 ►

like five or six years on,

00:24:14 ►

I just forgot about it.

00:24:16 ►

It just wasn’t ever,

00:24:17 ►

it wasn’t present.

00:24:18 ►

So the anniversary is roll around.

00:24:20 ►

I wouldn’t even remember this year on the 10th,

00:24:22 ►

on the 20th,

00:24:23 ►

you know,

00:24:23 ►

of my sentence,

00:24:24 ►

the more than more

00:24:26 ►

than 10 years after i got released um you know it was it was a special moment i called a a few

00:24:33 ►

people hattie in particular my partner at that time some of you know and um it was i felt a great release from it.

00:24:47 ►

As much as I chat about how great a time I had,

00:24:52 ►

there were still consequences, impact on the lives of my friends and family.

00:24:57 ►

Yeah.

00:24:58 ►

Hey, Casey.

00:25:00 ►

Go ahead.

00:25:00 ►

I’m a big fan.

00:25:02 ►

I’m a big fan, Casey.

00:25:04 ►

It’s lovely to meet you.

00:25:06 ►

I’ve got a question, a few questions.

00:25:11 ►

How do you feel about the psychedelic shift in the war on drugs changing

00:25:19 ►

in 2024 compared to having spent your time and now it being used

00:25:27 ►

as medicine how does that sort of make you feel well i was in court um waging my cognitive liberty

00:25:36 ►

human rights defense uh when bruce perry was running around as one of the tribe on bbc

00:25:42 ►

taking drugs i was being convicted for.

00:25:48 ►

So to see a world where people are not winding up with the incarceration

00:25:57 ►

for their choice to alter their mental functioning is an absolute blessing.

00:26:03 ►

And I can’t even possibly

00:26:05 ►

conceive of it any other way it’s one of the greatest accomplishments of humanity at this

00:26:09 ►

moment um it’s uh i want more of it that’s why i did it i didn’t do this i didn’t do this because

00:26:18 ►

i was gonna oh let’s get rich making some drugs i did it because the transformation i experienced

00:26:24 ►

like i got i was raised in the rooms

00:26:26 ►

of alcoholics and on this through the smoke line you know especially in america where they i don’t

00:26:30 ►

know about overseas but here the aa uh you know they’re smoking copious amounts of cigarettes

00:26:36 ►

and drinking copious amounts of coffee with lots of sugar in it and saying they’re drug free and

00:26:40 ►

um i saw the ridiculousness of it my whole life. My dad stays over until he died at 35.

00:26:47 ►

And having grown up in those worlds and heard about the spiritual awakening as the result of

00:26:57 ►

these steps, we carried this message to others. On LSD that first time after eight years of my own sobriety i had that promised

00:27:06 ►

spiritual awakening and i have no other mission other than to carry that message to others that

00:27:12 ►

you know uh and one meant is available i mean i uh you know i i want no one incarcerated for these experiences.

00:27:26 ►

You know, if you’re going to commit offenses against persons in property, then right on, off to jail you go.

00:27:33 ►

And, you know, we already have lots of laws about that.

00:27:38 ►

And if people are under the influence and commit crimes against persons or property, off to jail you go.

00:27:50 ►

The criminalization of the property activities, possession, supply, import, export, manufacture, whatever you want to say, molecules is only a crime against the state.

00:28:03 ►

molecules is only a crime against the state.

00:28:06 ►

Because if David Nichols can make it, make LSD lawfully,

00:28:09 ►

whilst I can’t make it lawfully because I don’t have that piece of paper,

00:28:15 ►

it’s not a, it’s not a crime.

00:28:19 ►

Sheldon, I think I cut you off. Go ahead. What you were going to say.

00:28:24 ►

I know. So I was going to say anything, but on my,

00:28:32 ►

what I was going to say anything, but on my, what I was going to say is, do you think that society can change straight away and in an instance?

00:28:38 ►

Personally, I think that’s a bad thing because we wouldn’t be able to undo certain measures, even if we put them through.

00:28:47 ►

The way I think of society, you’ve got echelons of say 30, 30 to 40, 40 to 50, 50 to 60, and so on,

00:28:48 ►

up to, like, you know, 90 to 100.

00:28:51 ►

So incremental change would be needed,

00:28:57 ►

and a lot of people would vote that we shouldn’t legalize LSD because we don’t understand it.

00:28:59 ►

But maybe I’m wrong.

00:29:00 ►

I don’t know how I personally think about it.

00:29:03 ►

But, yeah, I don’t think that it should be illegal or anything.

00:29:09 ►

And I like the slow change that’s happening now to using MDMA

00:29:20 ►

and psychedelics to help people with PTSD, depression, and all that stuff.

00:29:29 ►

Yeah, I think, I mean, I love that as well.

00:29:31 ►

I think the core understanding that I would love to impart to you in particular

00:29:35 ►

and others listening is that you can’t make a substance unlawful.

00:29:40 ►

That’s just not, that’s a misnomer.

00:29:43 ►

The substance is never unlawful.

00:29:44 ►

It’s the human action

00:29:45 ►

so if yeah again i’m going to repeat that thing about david nichols if david nichols could operate

00:29:52 ►

a laboratory at purdue lafayette indiana and make lsd lawfully because he has a piece of paper

00:29:58 ►

he can make it produce it action lawfully but i can’t because I don’t have a piece of paper. The difference is, is not the verb. It’s the paper. So the piece of paper authorizes me to act

00:30:11 ►

or not act. And so it’s the actions that are by humans that are criminalized. And the reason is

00:30:17 ►

that is because drugs won’t behave. So you can’t, you know, you can’t criminalize a drug. It’s

00:30:20 ►

not going to put it in jail. Drugs won’t humans might so we create laws around that um as far as the slow incremental change we’re experiencing it but i’m

00:30:29 ►

telling you it’s way faster than i envisioned it and um i am so grateful it’s happening at that

00:30:36 ►

speed and paradigm shifts can happen like overnight like you know reagan’s outside force

00:30:43 ►

came to mind he had that speech he’s like oh if we had an outside force, we’d all unite and planet Earth would be planet Earth and we’d be together.

00:30:49 ►

And of course, I would love that to happen as fast as possible.

00:30:52 ►

And, you know, LSD is fuel to that fire to, you know, create that transformation.

00:30:58 ►

This great wave of the what I’m going to call the entheogenic reformation not the renaissance we’re not going

00:31:06 ►

backwards in time we’re reforming the entheogenic reformation thank you Lorenzo um the you know

00:31:14 ►

Jonathan Ott wrote uh and i think it’s in the opening to the angels dictionary uh age of

00:31:20 ►

entheogens in the angels dictionary which is a very thin book of his.

00:31:30 ►

The opening three pages or four pages is the Entheogenic Reformation.

00:31:34 ►

We are seeing it. We are absolutely seeing it. And he pens it down as starting with Watson’s thesis in Time Life in 1955.

00:31:42 ►

Is that 1955? That’s the right year? That’s about right there.

00:31:47 ►

What she said, you know,

00:31:49 ►

had laid bare for all the world to see, and it’s all its dazzling quotidian

00:31:51 ►

humility, the holy sacrament itself,

00:31:54 ►

which did not limp along

00:31:55 ►

encumbered by an absurd doctrine of

00:31:57 ►

transubstantiation, allowing each

00:31:59 ►

and every communicant to attest

00:32:01 ►

to the miracle

00:32:03 ►

they have experienced.

00:32:05 ►

And I think that is the start of the Entheogenic Reformation.

00:32:09 ►

And I’d encourage you all to use that because this is a transformation of humanity.

00:32:14 ►

It’s a transformation of our explanatory models, our belief systems.

00:32:19 ►

It reorients us and hopefully gives us a place to belong in this biosphere.

00:32:30 ►

I hope you don’t mind, Casey.

00:32:34 ►

I want to tell a story about a real young Casey.

00:32:38 ►

This is 20 years ago or more in Palenque.

00:32:42 ►

20 years ago or more, in Palenque.

00:32:47 ►

And we have talked in the salon here several times about the survey,

00:32:53 ►

the study that you did on 2CT, is it 2CT7, I think it was, that MAPS published.

00:32:54 ►

2CT7.

00:32:55 ►

Yes. And we had this big extravaganza the day before.

00:33:00 ►

And the next day, Casey decides to do a study of these 20 some people who had done TCT seven to CT seven the day before.

00:33:10 ►

And it was an interesting day for all of us. But I was at the time I go at the time.

00:33:18 ►

Casey barged in with his laptop to ask some questions.

00:33:23 ►

I was on a bed with Christian Rush and three women.

00:33:28 ►

And my wife and I both had our clothes on. None of the rest of them did. And we were drinking

00:33:35 ►

tequila and smoking pot. And Casey came in. He just barged in, opened his laptop and looked up.

00:33:44 ►

And he saw us and he says, oh, I’ll come back later.

00:33:47 ►

Shut his laptop and left.

00:33:49 ►

That was a favorite memory of mine of you, Casey.

00:33:53 ►

I love that.

00:33:53 ►

I love that.

00:33:54 ►

Yes, I remember that.

00:33:55 ►

Yes.

00:33:56 ►

I have actually some photos as you guys, you know, we had to go back up to the conference center.

00:33:59 ►

You guys were all piling out of the piling out of the cabana there.

00:34:05 ►

I actually found the original. I’ve been looking lately.

00:34:09 ►

I’ve had some great integration about my, you know, my life and my past.

00:34:14 ►

And I found the original survey right up.

00:34:17 ►

So what had happened basically is, I mean, I just put it in the chat.

00:34:21 ►

There’s a link to the, it got published in the maps bulletin.

00:34:23 ►

What happened is I was laying on the deck at this pool and I just put it in the chat there, the link to the, it got published in the maps bulletin. What happened is I was laying on the deck at this pool and I just had this

00:34:29 ►

soaring Technicolor Eagle go over my head in my eyeballs and my teeth.

00:34:34 ►

I was on the GCD seven, like, oh shit, ton of us took it.

00:34:37 ►

And then we went up to the, the temples there at Palenque.

00:34:41 ►

And then we came back down and we went up there for Christian’s talk and came back

00:34:46 ►

down. And I was laying on the deck of the pool, you know, the sun was setting, it was beautiful

00:34:52 ►

up there, Technicolor Eagle went over my head and I leaned up and I looked around and I just saw

00:34:56 ►

all of my friends just fucking high as fuck on this molecule. And I’m like, wait a second,

00:35:03 ►

we just all took this. And I have like, I was studying medical anthropology at this molecule. And I’m like, wait a second, we just all took this. And I have,

00:35:09 ►

like, I was studying medical anthropology at the time. And I was like, wow, this is an awesome time to make a survey. So I jumped up off the deck, ran to Sasha’s cabin, and sat there with

00:35:16 ►

Sasha. And I said, I want to ask these questions. I want to do this. And we kind of organized,

00:35:20 ►

he helped me organize the survey. then i i literally still high ran to

00:35:25 ►

the road with my laptop uh stuck my thumb out got hitchhiked into town with people i couldn’t talk

00:35:30 ►

to managed to find an internet cafe with people i couldn’t talk to managed to get this thing printed

00:35:35 ►

with people i couldn’t talk to and ran back to the uh to the site and started handing the surveys out and amazingly you know more than 40 people responded 48 people

00:35:47 ►

and uh um i talked carla higdon was there and she was working at matt with maps at the time i said

00:35:55 ►

can i just please get this in the bulletin and she said yeah we’ll get that in there no problem

00:35:58 ►

and i did and if you’ll actually look and you click back through that volume 10 number two, it’s the Terrence death issue.

00:36:07 ►

He died. That would die a few months later. That was February of 2000. He would die in March or April or something.

00:36:16 ►

I was so proud that one of my comments made it into your report.

00:36:20 ►

Oh, yeah. I love this. Usual haunting by my minimal, my usual demons.

00:36:25 ►

your report. Oh yeah. I love this usual haunting by my minimal, my, my usual demons. And there was another one you said, I think, which is, uh, um, uh, you know, I had to negotiate a business

00:36:30 ►

deal as long as I focused that way. I think that was yours too. Yeah. And that was, that was really

00:36:35 ►

one of the top five psychedelic experiences of my life that the first two hours or first four

00:36:42 ►

hours of that experience. So, so uh it was a really amazing

00:36:45 ►

experience i did that substance three or four times subsequently and never even got close to

00:36:51 ►

the same high and that’s where i have this theory of the virgin rush you really want if you’re going

00:36:56 ►

to try something new make sure the set and setting is as good as you can get it oh yeah it was dude

00:37:01 ►

that was like were you crystalline clarity uncaged as well oh yeah

00:37:06 ►

yeah it was that was that was like someone someone said that sentence and i think i don’t

00:37:11 ►

know if you wrote that no that was the original service but i i i the word crystalline care uh

00:37:17 ►

clarity really hits home i remember sitting on the steps of the main pyramid and then going down to the baths

00:37:25 ►

where the queen’s bath. And I had the longest moment of clarity. I can bring some of it back

00:37:35 ►

right now. I’m getting a sort of a chill down my back. It was really an amazing experience. So

00:37:40 ►

I’m so glad that you documented it like that. Otherwise, you know, I’d just be saying, oh, we have this great two CT seven thing. But now we have it’s a historical event.

00:38:08 ►

For me, that was like that day, that moment when we were all gathered around the tree with for Christian’s talk.

00:38:16 ►

I actually got up and walked over to the temple of the inscriptions and I put my hand on it.

00:38:20 ►

And as soon as I fucking touched that building, I just started weeping so damn hard.

00:38:24 ►

I found myself. I was home. I was like 100 percent 100 home i was home with the group of people i was

00:38:27 ►

with i was home in myself and in my body and i was home in my adventures in life it was just like

00:38:34 ►

it was my ground i actually titled the photo weeping grounded and it started this thing that

00:38:40 ►

wouldn’t that didn’t stop for i mean hell probably a year’s worth of psychedelic journeys

00:38:45 ►

where i would just weep with gratitude so grateful to be alive and we’re talking about an experience

00:38:52 ►

we had together at the same time with a bunch of other people that was over 20 years ago and it is

00:38:59 ►

still vivid now that is pretty amazing experience when you think about it. Yeah. Considering all the others that have changed my life.

00:39:06 ►

It literally changed my life.

00:39:07 ►

The reason I’m sitting in this building in Reno, this house in Reno, it’s a really nice house.

00:39:10 ►

I’m looking over downtown Reno.

00:39:11 ►

It’s like the biggest little city in the world.

00:39:13 ►

It’s all self-contained.

00:39:14 ►

But Daryl LeMaire would read that article in the MAPS Bulletin.

00:39:18 ►

And he would call Sasha up and go, who is this kid?

00:39:21 ►

And then he’d call me, then write me and me and say you know this guy had a volcano like i’m

00:39:26 ►

living on the flank of the volcano right here that he had a laboratory it’s still with a hole

00:39:31 ►

that’s still the laboratory is still there it’s just packed full of a bunch of other shit it’s

00:39:35 ►

not even workable but uh um um he was part of sasha’s research group and he called and said

00:39:42 ►

or he told me wrote to my you know address

00:39:45 ►

that was in the maps bulletin and said hey I want to talk with you I think you’ll be interested in

00:39:49 ►

what I’ve been up to and he uh eventually we communicate and he wanted properly and he wanted

00:39:55 ►

to just give me all his old lab equipment and then I was off and running dude yes

00:40:00 ►

and then you know with that lab equipment I made some mdma and i wound up in depaul at a

00:40:06 ►

shamanism and tantric conference and rio was there and he ate some of that how was that mdma

00:40:11 ►

rio the mdma was great the two ct7 put me off in another world and i’m amazed that you could

00:40:21 ►

have walked to christian’s talk because I don’t think I moved for hours.

00:40:27 ►

I even got on the bus.

00:40:29 ►

We bussed up to the – I didn’t walk all the way up there.

00:40:32 ►

We’ve got to – I’m on the bus.

00:40:34 ►

I’m like coming up on – I end up exhaust fumes.

00:40:36 ►

I’m puking out the window.

00:40:39 ►

It was amazing.

00:40:41 ►

I don’t think I went on the bus.

00:40:42 ►

I think I walked through the –

00:40:44 ►

You’re up.

00:40:44 ►

Oh, you walked because I’m going to have a photo of you standing there.

00:40:47 ►

Yeah. Oh, you do. I’d love to get it.

00:40:49 ►

Yeah. I actually, I’ve actually been digging them out. You know, it’s 20 years or it’s 24 now.

00:40:57 ►

They’re, you know, one megapixel digital camera.

00:41:00 ►

Yes.

00:41:00 ►

You know, Kodak one megapixel.

00:41:03 ►

Anyway, yeah, I’d love to get a copy.

00:41:06 ►

Do you still have the photo I did of you in front of the ruins?

00:41:10 ►

Oh, yes. Yes. And and remember, remember, I walk.

00:41:15 ►

You’re you’re talking to Ken in the Simonton and the water in the pool.

00:41:21 ►

And I’m still dressed and I’m high and I walk straight into the water and take a

00:41:25 ►

picture of you two you both are shocked you’re like what those would be great it’s been an

00:41:33 ►

amazing journey I have to say it’s when you know it’s like to think that 24 years ago you know I

00:41:37 ►

was standing at the temple and with you all and having uh deep, profound, transformative experiences.

00:41:45 ►

Like literally this guy gave me, this guy on a hill here gave me a laboratory

00:41:49 ►

that then enabled me to travel the world and meet so many wonderful people

00:41:54 ►

and go to all these conferences and even get arrested

00:41:59 ►

and go through that transformative experience of, you know,

00:42:02 ►

sitting still on a, you know, on a prison

00:42:05 ►

bed, reading law, getting a physics degree, listening to people who had never been listened

00:42:12 ►

to before, studying humanity, front row seat to the BBC, all the, you know, the BBC channels.

00:42:22 ►

Life has been extraordinary. It’s been challenging and extraordinary did i understand this correctly

00:42:27 ►

casey that that your your lab found getting your lab and all came from that art that study that

00:42:35 ►

got published and matched that that was the connection that got you there well there’s two

00:42:40 ►

well it’s part of that there’s a few connections the uh if you remember clay prepsky um clay prepsky and ralph bachas got busted uh making mdma at uh at uh intent uh in tempe

00:42:54 ►

uh at uh that’s arizona state or university of arizona can’t remember it’s arizona state anyway so um and there was a mention of my paper in the federal registry

00:43:09 ►

um and there I was connected with Clay when we were in Nepal and he went through uh

00:43:17 ►

one of the longest ketamine holes I’ve ever seen anyone go through

00:43:21 ►

days upon days upon days and uh we got uh he wound up

00:43:27 ►

you know we were babysitting him trying to help him get off of ketamine whilst we’re in nepal

00:43:36 ►

and catmandu and we’re uh my we were on taking shifts and when my bro who was supposed to be

00:43:41 ►

watching while i was out with some girl uh i came back he’d

00:43:45 ►

fallen asleep clay had woken up and ran out onto the streets and got everything he could to uh

00:43:51 ►

make some heroin including a ball and acetic acid and vessels and everything and he uh

00:43:57 ►

had made some and snorted some there was evidence of it had respiratory failure

00:44:01 ►

and i literally grabbed him and drug him down the stairs,

00:44:06 ►

started doing CPR on him, three flights of stairs,

00:44:09 ►

CPR on him on the sidewalk, got him into a tuk-tuk,

00:44:11 ►

got him over to Royal Paton Hospital.

00:44:14 ►

And they pumped him with paddles a few times and managed to,

00:44:18 ►

it was a long ride to the hospital.

00:44:20 ►

And they pumped him with paddles a few times and he managed to come back to

00:44:24 ►

heartbeat and breathe in on his own own but it was in a coma and three days later he woke up from the coma and he’s

00:44:30 ►

like oh wow you guys are all here can i get some more ketamine and i immediately was like uh i need

00:44:39 ►

to talk to you doctor um i need to call the embassy and And I called the embassy and asked for help.

00:44:49 ►

And we escorted him back and they’ve got, you know, they knew I was close with him. There was the federal registry of my thing.

00:44:53 ►

There was something he did that got into federal registry related.

00:44:57 ►

That was part of it. But the real thing was

00:44:59 ►

that what really got me was I sent a package of MDMA to a friend because I needed, you know,

00:45:06 ►

some money behind my U S bank account. So I could purchase some chemicals that I needed in England.

00:45:11 ►

And I sent a package of MDMA to him with his account from the King’s road, Chelsea,

00:45:15 ►

Chelsea King’s road shop. And, uh, I had freshly recrystallized it because it was uh um i’ve been stored literally had been storing it in

00:45:26 ►

the bottom of my compost bin um which was muggy and left a smell so i recrystallized it and there

00:45:32 ►

was a little bit of solvent on it but it was in his name in his fedex account and it sat at the

00:45:38 ►

fedex and either they noticed a smell there or there’s evidence that when it came off the plane in Atlanta, it hit the Tennessee.

00:45:47 ►

I can’t remember if it’s Atlanta. It hit the it hit.

00:45:50 ►

They were taking one square meter sections and blowing air over it, sucking that in to analyze it.

00:45:55 ►

And they smelled solvents and they already had a controlled buy on my friend Tom for another issue or control they were watching him for other issues and they pulled

00:46:06 ►

that thing and they uh did a controlled delivery on him and he even left it on the mantle for 24

00:46:12 ►

hours and then opened it the next day um and out popped a buzzer and rushed the goon squad

00:46:21 ►

uh and they spent days and days and days searching him and interrogating him,

00:46:25 ►

and he was doing pretty good until they checked the pockets of his pants at the laundry machine that he’d thrown

00:46:31 ►

and found the receipt for the $5,000 and walked up to him and said, what’s this?

00:46:37 ►

They had already obviously investigated the $5,000 account and saw that all they had done was purchase chemicals,

00:46:44 ►

and now he was involved in

00:46:46 ►

something much larger and he just folded right there and gave me up so they knew i was in england

00:46:53 ►

they knew i was operating a laboratory um and uh you know confluence of factors i mean

00:47:01 ►

and let me let me unwind that thing that all came from the fact

00:47:07 ►

that you were storing it in the bottom of your compost pile you just need to find a better place

00:47:12 ►

to hide it well it actually came from i mean it’s like there’s i mean where did what yeah exactly

00:47:16 ►

where where do you start that story that story started because i needed five thousand dollars

00:47:20 ►

and i called my friend tom who i knew would have it he lived in the town that my bank was in i knew he’d have it and he would put it in there and uh uh tom drank himself to death

00:47:31 ►

over this um he uh and you know tragedy you know it’s along with this you know there’s just so much

00:47:39 ►

tragedy around the criminalization of uh psychedelics um or drugs in particular and I mean it starts with any of

00:47:47 ►

the money because I wanted to try a different route of synthesis because the starting material

00:47:52 ►

I suspected had been cut and I couldn’t figure out how to wind it and I thought this material

00:48:01 ►

would help me break through that and it did um it’s a

00:48:05 ►

very successful method actually to lighten things up a bit I was looking for a book that you

00:48:11 ►

recommended to uh both Matt Palomari and myself and we both bought it I couldn’t find it easily

00:48:17 ►

we should have and I was just going to tell people that if if Casey ever recommends a book to you

00:48:22 ►

uh first of all it’s going to be a good recommendation,

00:48:25 ►

but this is book, the title is just Brain, The Brain, and it’s over-

00:48:30 ►

Zen and the Brain.

00:48:31 ►

Zen and the Brain, that’s it, Zen and the Brain, and it’s over a thousand pages, but

00:48:34 ►

it took Matt and I both a couple of years to get through it, but it’s really worth it.

00:48:39 ►

I’m glad you did that.

00:48:41 ►

Yeah, so am I.

00:48:42 ►

I mean, that’s a really good book. And I think that was one of your professors

00:48:46 ►

at one time that wrote that. He was actually, he was. He was at University of Idaho. He’s an MIT,

00:48:50 ►

so he was, it’s MIT Press is the book. It’s Zen of the Brain. Author is James Austin. I’ll show

00:48:57 ►

it to you here in just a second. Yeah. MIT Press has a book coming out, I believe, I hope for

00:49:02 ►

October. That’ll be the first really uh serious uh biography

00:49:07 ►

of terence mckenna with references and details and graham saint john over in england is one that’s

00:49:12 ►

writing that it’s not coming through too well because of your uh yeah that’s okay but anyway so

00:49:19 ►

what was the other book casey say again What’s the first word of the title?

00:49:26 ►

Zen.

00:49:27 ►

Yeah, so he’s a neuroscientist that happens to be a Zen Roshi.

00:49:32 ►

Okay.

00:49:32 ►

And he writes this book.

00:49:34 ►

It’s got testable hypotheses in it.

00:49:36 ►

You know, he writes it during the decade of the brain, the United Nations decade of the brain.

00:49:41 ►

And he, it’s magnificent. he literally walks you through it’s

00:49:49 ►

really crafty the way he’s done this and it’s divided in seven possibly eight sections uh

00:49:56 ►

major sections and he walks you through uh the complete transformations from opening that first page to enlightenment and it’s really really fun

00:50:08 ►

and it’s available for anyone the other book i really recommend highly is uh enlightenment

00:50:14 ►

which is a new translation of the yoga sutras of patanjali by somebody named msi and you can

00:50:21 ►

find them used cheap enlightenment is its title and msi is the author and it’s the

00:50:28 ►

step-by-step trend you know it’s like this is what you go through as you develop uh unified

00:50:35 ►

consciousness we were at the center of the creation of this uh modern and theogenic reformation and it’s like i’m i’m i’m grappling

00:50:48 ►

with that these and i’m so i’m so pleased to hear you uh calling it a reformation i’ve been pushing

00:50:54 ►

on that for a long time because even during the the original renaissance they didn’t know it was

00:50:59 ►

a renaissance until 100 or 200 years afterwards so i think it’s foolish to call this a psychedelic renaissance

00:51:05 ►

but it is definitely i’ve been calling it a resurgence but uh reformation is just as good

00:51:11 ►

well i like the reformation because the connotation of uh of the transformation of

00:51:16 ►

human belief system yes yeah it’s a better word better word for sure i i think it fits also with the the uh entheogens in the future of religion context

00:51:26 ►

and you know it fits in the that model that was laid out there in 40s edited collection

00:51:34 ►

um yeah that’s that’s a marvelous book the the entheogens and the future of religion

00:51:40 ►

religion it’s behind me behind my yeah i’ve’ve got one too. They’re all relatively short essays.

00:51:47 ►

It’s, yeah, and the other one, Prometheus Rising, dude,

00:51:51 ►

if you haven’t read that by Robert Anton Wilson,

00:51:52 ►

talk about hilarious and so much fun.

00:51:54 ►

That’s on the bookshelf.

00:51:56 ►

That’s on the bookshelf too.

00:52:00 ►

You know, I haven’t read that.

00:52:01 ►

I read that a long time ago.

00:52:03 ►

I might read that again now.

00:52:04 ►

I’d forgotten how good that was. So it’s worth reading, at least where he, you know, I haven’t read that. I read that a long time ago. I might read that again now that I’d forgotten how good that was.

00:52:06 ►

Yeah. So it’s worth reading, at least where he, you know, it’s like, you know, it’s like, I know it’s page 18 in your first edition, but it’s I don’t know where it’s at now.

00:52:14 ►

It’s like 40 or something. He’s got some introductions, but there’s a list of eight where he talks about the the eight circuits and it’s really short and it’s two and a half pages.

00:52:26 ►

And it’s absolutely fabulous. i’ve made a note what’s the title again casey prometheus rising not the movie but the book

00:52:34 ►

by robert anton wilson uh written like 86 or something and uh it’s falcon press now we’re

00:52:40 ►

new falcon press um they’re reprinting it now.

00:52:46 ►

I have signed first edition still.

00:52:48 ►

Hilaritas Press is…

00:52:50 ►

Oh, Hilaritas, that’s right.

00:52:51 ►

Yeah.

00:52:55 ►

I style myself

00:52:57 ►

a guerrilla

00:52:59 ►

ontological, quantum psychological

00:53:01 ►

cognitive

00:53:03 ►

libertine.

00:53:10 ►

Well, you know Casey we have turned you into a guest speaker today

00:53:12 ►

fabulous

00:53:14 ►

we think so too

00:53:15 ►

yeah I appreciate the opportunity

00:53:18 ►

I’m so tired of doing all the heavy

00:53:20 ►

lifting around here

00:53:21 ►

that’s right the only way we can get you to be quiet all the heavy lifting around here.

00:53:26 ►

That’s right.

00:53:28 ►

That’s the only way we can get you to be quiet.

00:53:30 ►

Yeah, yeah. Any more questions?

00:53:32 ►

It’s great to see you looking so good

00:53:34 ►

with a halo around your head.

00:53:36 ►

Oh, yes.

00:53:38 ►

You’ve been to the burn, haven’t you, Drew?

00:53:40 ►

Oh, 15 times.

00:53:42 ►

Yeah, exactly.

00:53:43 ►

So this is, I think I’ve been there with you.

00:53:45 ►

So this is, this year is the mud burn, burning mud, 2023.

00:53:52 ►

And the rainbows were just out of control.

00:53:55 ►

And nobody was out.

00:53:58 ►

Nobody was out there.

00:53:59 ►

I was running around barefoot, having a great time.

00:54:02 ►

That’s a great picture.

00:54:03 ►

Beautiful.

00:54:04 ►

Thank you.

00:54:05 ►

Thank you. Thank you. barefoot having a great time that’s a great picture beautiful thank you thank you thank you so so casey you’ve had obviously a lot more um time to think about this cognitive liberty

00:54:12 ►

concept and i i’ll admit that i’m still somewhat colonized by the normie concepts of

00:54:17 ►

uh you know social responsibility and you know the social compact and i i’m trying to figure out

00:54:24 ►

you know with this news recently about was Washington recriminalizing some of their drugs.

00:54:30 ►

Oregon.

00:54:31 ►

Oregon, right.

00:54:35 ►

Can you give maybe a steel man for the, for the argument of, I i mean because i understand that the you know person person and property

00:54:45 ►

those those need to be protected but like the the drunk driving example is one that comes to mind

00:54:52 ►

that obviously that should be that’s that causes harm to people and so that should be illegal but

00:55:01 ►

where are i i can i can see that some people have these guardrails they want

00:55:07 ►

to put around um substance use and i just wondered if you could wrap a little bit on

00:55:14 ►

on how to disambiguate that in my thinking well to add to add on to that like yeah what what

00:55:22 ►

guardrails uh having thought about this for a while uh

00:55:26 ►

in what guardrails would you personally put in place i mean i i don’t think i don’t think

00:55:32 ►

children below the age of 13 should have access to, in the world of law, they like black and whites.

00:55:58 ►

Who’s responsible?

00:55:59 ►

They want to know who’s responsible.

00:56:00 ►

Who’s going to make the reparation, all that stuff.

00:56:02 ►

Who’s going to make the reparation, all that stuff.

00:56:06 ►

So I think with any drug use, if you look at alcohol and tobacco, what you’ll find is that they have a very nice method of dividing responsibilities.

00:56:10 ►

And this can be applied to all drugs.

00:56:13 ►

And that is, you know, harm to self, harm to others, harm to self, harm to others with

00:56:18 ►

consent, harm to self, harm to others without consent.

00:56:21 ►

You know, so you look at where the person who’s most responsible, and I wrote a

00:56:27 ►

book about this with Daniel Waterman called Entheogens Society and Law, that though, if you

00:56:37 ►

look at where to place harm, where to place responsibility, it has to be with the user.

00:56:41 ►

It has to be with the manufacturer. It has to be with, say, places of consumption and supply.

00:56:47 ►

It has to be if there’s any use of public expenditure that can invite taxation, any use of emergency and medical services, taxation, responsibility, even criminal responsibility at times.

00:57:02 ►

So those are the kind of things we have to look at is like, where is it

00:57:06 ►

taxing the public welfare? If my behavior is leading to strain on or, you know, any use of

00:57:17 ►

public resources, then I’m, I’ve spread my behavior onto other people. And for that, I’m responsible and I ought to be held responsible.

00:57:26 ►

As far as driving under the influence, I’m guilty of having driven under the influence of alcohol.

00:57:32 ►

I’m guilty of having driven under the influence of LSD, TCB, MDMA. I’m sure I’ve driven under a

00:57:37 ►

lot of them, ketamine even, over the many years of my life. Not so impaired that I couldn’t

00:57:43 ►

actually drive the vehicle and get home

00:57:45 ►

safely because I didn’t hit anything, but I took that risk.

00:57:47 ►

And now I don’t take those risks at all.

00:57:52 ►

I mean, what the most I’m going to do is smoke some herb and that might make

00:57:55 ►

me, you know, miss my exit as Robin Williams says.

00:57:59 ►

So live at the Met, oh, there goes my exit.

00:58:03 ►

Anyway.

00:58:25 ►

Live at the Met. Oh, there goes my exit. Anyway, so I think it really comes down to, you know, what are the harms? What are the real harms? If we can handle it with alcohol and tobacco, if we can handle the longstanding tradition and tolerance of the alteration of mental functioning that comes with alcohol and tobacco in our Western societies, then we can handle these as well. I think there’s nothing stopping us from using the mechanism that is

00:58:31 ►

actually written. The controlled substance is actually a beautiful mechanism for regulating

00:58:36 ►

a licensed market in psychoactives, things that alter the structure or function of man or animal,

00:58:44 ►

particularly the thinking of man or animal, particularly the

00:58:45 ►

thinking of man or animal or the ability to function. And I think it’s written into the law.

00:58:50 ►

It’s just operated at a full tilt of prohibition rather than, okay, some things we’re going to keep

00:58:56 ►

full prohibition, but we’re going to spread them back. Now you can look at the schedules as doing

00:59:00 ►

that, but they grouped all these drugs that would compete with the drug dealers on our usual street

00:59:06 ►

corners, you know, the tobacco merchants and the alcohol people. And what they, what we have is a

00:59:11 ►

system where we haven’t applied to the majority, the law that we apply to the minorities. And

00:59:17 ►

that’s an absolute no-no in American jurisprudence. And it’s the moment any court actually cracks that

00:59:22 ►

open and actually deals with that head on, they’re going to come up against, you know, a couple hundred, you know, 180 years of jurisprudence saying that’s not the way to operate the law.

00:59:43 ►

and they’ve applied two sets of legislation to them,

00:59:45 ►

which is a no-no.

00:59:47 ►

That’s called special legislation and that’s prohibited in all jurisdictions,

00:59:50 ►

federal and state.

00:59:54 ►

And I’ve been working on this already for a long time.

00:59:59 ►

If we can get any court in the United States

01:00:02 ►

to crack that open,

01:00:04 ►

there’s no rational basis for having

01:00:06 ►

separated them in the first place, except that the majority didn’t want to apply to themselves

01:00:11 ►

the law they wanted to apply to others. And that’s just not, that’s just bad. That’s bad form all

01:00:17 ►

around. That’s automatically denying people due process. That’s automatically denying people equal

01:00:22 ►

treatment. And I’ve been working with

01:00:25 ►

some lawyers behind the scenes to you know try to get these cases and these ideas

01:00:29 ►

integrated into the way you know lawyers approach helping their clients a lot of the times it’s just

01:00:38 ►

like well you know they’re only going to get a slap on the wrist so we’re not going to do anything

01:00:41 ►

about it but you know for the well and truly fucked there’s nothing better than to just go go for it as hard as you can possibly go for

01:00:48 ►

at the legal system that’s you know that’s um oppressing them

01:00:54 ►

and uh yeah i i created this three-tier matrix of harm and responsibility and how you divide that

01:01:04 ►

and it really comes down to can you make an informed choice and you’re not hurting anyone else?

01:01:11 ►

Then you ought to be able to do whatever you want.

01:01:13 ►

And you want to get back to the social contract, Chris, that Rousseau and John Stuart Mill.

01:01:18 ►

John Stuart Mill is like, you know, as long as I harm no one, I could do as I please.

01:01:23 ►

You know, in On Liberty, when he’s talking about alcohol use in there and the same principles apply all around it’s like uh jacob solom saying

01:01:31 ►

yes comes to mind uh in this book article he’s he’s like uh wine drinkers don’t seem compelled

01:01:38 ►

to profess that their beverage was endorsed by god they just say i like a nice glass of wine

01:01:43 ►

and that seems to be okay.

01:01:51 ►

I think Ian will drink to that.

01:01:55 ►

I had, you know, an interesting thing. I have not,

01:01:57 ►

this is the first time in a long time that I’ve heard 2C, 2,

01:02:03 ►

what is it? 2CG7.

01:02:06 ►

Yeah.

01:02:06 ►

And it’s interesting, even in, it seems to be very rare now, which is interesting.

01:02:14 ►

Yeah, it is.

01:02:14 ►

I mean, I haven’t seen any since the early 2000s.

01:02:29 ►

the early 2000s no the last on some of the drug testing sites so the last uh entry is like 2017 or 19 something like that you know which is i’ve seen tcb 2ce 2ct2 actually uh matter of fact uh

01:02:40 ►

i figured out that um sasha didn’t actually make all those. It was a man named Stephen Gill.

01:02:47 ►

And he worked very intensively on a whole set of them,

01:02:53 ►

like 25 different versions of the 2CT series.

01:02:59 ►

And like 12 or 13 or 15 of them got into PCAL.

01:03:03 ►

And that was through interpersonal communication

01:03:05 ►

they knew each other research group all that stuff but uh um and actually i got a message

01:03:12 ►

from steven’s dad not so long ago by a friend that he’s not doing very well and he’s they’re

01:03:17 ►

running out of money and they’re living in the hills in santa cruz and can hardly pay for their heating right now and things like that so kind of an old-timer story some of the old-timers are they never made a lot of money

01:03:33 ►

off of it uh they you know provided a benefit in the boom they certainly got two cd7 wow 2CT7. Wow. I worked my way through a lot of those 2Cs

01:03:46 ►

and the 2CT7 was

01:03:49 ►

that one time was the best. The one that was most reproducible for me was

01:03:53 ►

2Ci.

01:03:57 ►

What is it? 2Ci? 2Ci is its own thing. It’s Iota.

01:04:02 ►

But the 2CT2 is the one that I experiment other than 2CT-7.

01:04:08 ►

Yeah, 2CT-2 I did too.

01:04:10 ►

The 2Cs were all interesting, but if you ever do find 2CT-7,

01:04:16 ►

make sure you set it aside for the perfect experience,

01:04:19 ►

the perfect day, no stress in your mind.

01:04:21 ►

It will give you a an amazing experience yeah and i uh i mean i i’m

01:04:29 ►

a probably that time i was probably about 170 pounds and i took i think 45 milligrams or

01:04:35 ►

and it set me on fire never been the same no going back. As I recall, we walked up to the top of the hill where the classrooms were, and that’s where Toad had his room.

01:04:51 ►

And he, every one of us went into room one at a time, and he asked our weight and our experience,

01:04:57 ►

and then weighed out what he thought was the proper amount for us.

01:05:00 ►

And I don’t know what the amount was that I had that first time.

01:05:04 ►

It is so ridiculous

01:05:05 ►

that at this moment in time i can remember that room and i can remember that it was a pp2060d

01:05:10 ►

accu lab scale

01:05:12 ►

yeah do you remember the dosage that you got yeah i have 45 oh that was, that was it. That was it. Okay. Yeah, it was 45 on that scale.

01:05:26 ►

I’m sure mine wasn’t that high.

01:05:27 ►

Yeah.

01:05:32 ►

But it was the precisely exact dose I needed.

01:05:36 ►

I mean, I couldn’t have taken more and I wouldn’t have wanted less.

01:05:38 ►

Yeah. I think 2Cb seems to be the most readily available, well, of the two Cs.

01:05:49 ►

Yeah.

01:05:49 ►

Yeah, there was a 74 Oshun got busted.

01:05:53 ►

He did his time.

01:05:56 ►

I think he made a kilo and sold half,

01:05:59 ►

and it was floating around the deeper heads of the psychedelic community for a while,

01:06:03 ►

but I’m not sure there’s much left.

01:06:04 ►

I don’t have any left. I’ve eaten it all. My advice to most people is like, if you want to

01:06:10 ►

be really intentional about your psychedelics, get up early in the morning, go out there,

01:06:14 ►

watch the sunrise, eat your, I’m going to eat your, you know, eat a reasonable size dose in

01:06:19 ►

the sunrise out in nature on a nice warm day, nothing threatening you. And you’re just totally

01:06:24 ►

comfortable. Got blankets if you need it, you know, a car warm day nothing threatening you and you’re totally comfortable

01:06:25 ►

got blankets if you need it you know a car to retreat to whatever you need you know um

01:06:29 ►

nature i love it being out in nature burning man’s a good place too

01:06:37 ►

i’ve heard of shulgan’s a half dozen magical or his magic half dozen magic. Yeah.

01:06:45 ►

Yeah.

01:06:45 ►

And you’ve had so many experiences with different ones.

01:06:47 ►

Would you have a magic half dozen or at least if I,

01:06:51 ►

I mean,

01:06:52 ►

if I was going to put a magic half dozen,

01:06:53 ►

it’s going to be a LSD,

01:06:55 ►

TCB,

01:06:55 ►

DMT,

01:06:56 ►

five amino DMT,

01:06:57 ►

MDMA,

01:06:58 ►

um,

01:06:59 ►

TCG seven,

01:07:01 ►

um,

01:07:02 ►

you know,

01:07:03 ►

which substances have helped you get to the mind state

01:07:06 ►

you’re in now the most? Which have been the most helpful in that sense?

01:07:12 ►

My first 5-MeO

01:07:13 ►

DMT was Matt Palomary

01:07:18 ►

at that very

01:07:21 ►

day. It was that conference. We all did it. He been that very day it was that conference we all did it he

01:07:27 ►

was he was good good to all of us that day yeah anyway so i yeah that was uh it was a culmination

01:07:33 ►

of something i had uh i had um so i years earlier i got involved in this after taking psychedelics

01:07:41 ►

for the first time i got involved in this meditation called the asha’s ascension meditation

01:07:44 ►

which is where i found that enlightenment text right in there

01:07:46 ►

gave me a bunch of things to think about as my mind cleared um and um and uh

01:07:55 ►

more space opened up and i also got engaged with the landmark forum where they talk about the power

01:08:03 ►

of our word to create a reality and then i was in medical anthropology where they talk about the power of our words, create a reality.

01:08:06 ►

And then I was in medical anthropology where we looked at the focus on the

01:08:09 ►

sufferer experience where faith in declarations.

01:08:15 ►

If I had faith in a declaration, it made an effect for my health.

01:08:20 ►

And on that five meal DMT there at that conference might’ve been the same the same day as the 2-CD-7, I don’t know.

01:08:27 ►

I can figure it out by the photos.

01:08:30 ►

But I experienced that whole thing just going and coming together

01:08:39 ►

and just making so much sense.

01:08:41 ►

My word creates my reality.

01:08:42 ►

It creates the world I’m living into.

01:08:44 ►

The mindset I have living into the mindset

01:08:45 ►

i have here the mindset is my linguistics um the it’s inseparable from the attitude with which i

01:08:53 ►

approach the world and in the ishizah teaching i was taught the you know uh praise uh gratitude

01:08:59 ►

and love and compassion attitudes and cognitions around these things and the first thing that went through

01:09:05 ►

my mind was the praise cognition or the praise uh attitude mantra from the ashayas ascension

01:09:11 ►

teaching and i went and the job was fucking done it was over it was right there it happened right

01:09:18 ►

there right there at the moment because my first lst experience i had that moment of stillness but

01:09:22 ►

couldn’t tell you about it didn’t about it and didn’t know its importance.

01:09:26 ►

So I recognized that the moment

01:09:28 ►

I got in there in the 5-minute TMT

01:09:29 ►

space as, oh.

01:09:34 ►

And the quietness,

01:09:36 ►

just the, you know, the wind can be

01:09:37 ►

rushing.

01:09:39 ►

And yet inside I’m still.

01:09:45 ►

Any reflections?

01:09:47 ►

Ketamine?

01:09:48 ►

I fucking love it.

01:09:49 ►

It’s great stuff.

01:09:51 ►

It’s great stuff.

01:09:53 ►

Ketamine is very interesting.

01:09:55 ►

So ketamine, I had something very similar.

01:09:57 ►

I was floating on the lake in Pokhara, Nepal,

01:10:00 ►

after the Shamanism Tantra Conference.

01:10:01 ►

It was two bucks a bottle.

01:10:03 ►

And you could get a whole flat

01:10:05 ►

of it for like 50 bucks. And I did ketamine for the first and I pulled the needle out of my arm and I felt the narrowing, the stretching of my thinking.

01:10:33 ►

And the most important observation I had from it, not only did I say the exact same, let’s try this essential attitude again.

01:10:41 ►

But what I noticed is that stretched it like spaghetti thin so i had

01:10:45 ►

i got the opportunity to ride a thought

01:10:50 ►

for the first time in my life to like really ride the vibration and you know the whole sentence was

01:11:00 ►

like i mean it might have been 40 minutes one sentence that was like you know five words

01:11:05 ►

and that stretching that thin that focus that resonance that ascendance that came with that

01:11:13 ►

experience was out of this world it’s absolutely fabulous and i’ve had some very deep ketamine experiences since i uh yeah a great amount of it it’s a really great um for

01:11:30 ►

i think accessing i mean it sounds ridiculous in some sense but i think

01:11:36 ►

accessing the memories that are still encoded in my dna

01:11:39 ►

hazy you’ve talked about a lot of chemicals. Do you have a relationship with mushrooms?

01:11:48 ►

I do. I’ve had a decent relationship with mushrooms over the years. I’ve had a decent amount of them.

01:11:55 ►

Matter of fact, the first thing I did when I got my grant, my Pell Grant for studying so I could go to North Idaho College and study what had just happened to me,

01:12:06 ►

because that’s how I wound up in school. I was like, the next day, crying, going,

01:12:09 ►

please let me go to school and study what happened to me. And they got me in there and I got grants.

01:12:14 ►

And the first grant I got, I bought two pounds of mushrooms off of, uh, psilocybe mushrooms off

01:12:20 ►

of a good friend. And, uh, I sold $25 eights for a very long time and did a lot of mushrooms

01:12:25 ►

the first time i ever did them i was convinced they were going to crucify me

01:12:29 ►

and then i’d wind up you know and i just laughed through the whole thing it’s like

01:12:33 ►

it’s just absolutely awesome the last really really deep mushroom experience we made mushroom

01:12:39 ►

smoothies out of the bottom of a bag of spores and i wound up on the cliffs at fort bragg um that you know uh what’s

01:12:47 ►

that todd cove and uh just spray of the water coming on me just mashed into the rocks just

01:12:53 ►

you know enjoying life

01:12:55 ►

uh i love mushrooms um i think um

01:13:02 ►

i love you know an ayahuasca the the extended, I think I get, you know, a more compressed, extended, deep, bone deep, like as deep as you get psychedelic reverie from the mushrooms.

01:13:22 ►

Especially if you take a good heroic dose.

01:13:25 ►

I don’t know.

01:13:26 ►

There was a lot of spores in that last smoothie of mine.

01:13:29 ►

And that overwhelm,

01:13:34 ►

I’ve learned to surrender to and just let it go.

01:13:39 ►

Just not even fight it whatsoever.

01:13:41 ►

And just revel in it.

01:13:43 ►

It’s such a blessed feeling.

01:13:44 ►

I love it. it’s such a blessing feeling I love it it’s so delicious

01:13:46 ►

it’s really comforting for us taxpayers to know that our Pell Grant money is going to good use

01:13:54 ►

yeah you know I was talking to a guy the other day that got some of those mushrooms and he became a

01:13:59 ►

lawyer um and uh we’ve connected and we’re gonna try to write some things together

01:14:07 ►

you know you got some of them from me at one of the barter fairs he’s like oh that was you yeah

01:14:14 ►

and and you know it’s like yeah what you could use and now he teaches at that same school

01:14:21 ►

And now he teaches at that same school.

01:14:29 ►

There was a lawyer I met at one of the first Salvia conferences.

01:14:37 ►

And he was involved, I think, in starting an organization that had to do with cognitive liberty.

01:14:38 ►

Richard Lund Boyer.

01:14:40 ►

Yes, that’s right, Richard.

01:14:49 ►

He really added a lot to the conversation because the cognitive liberty meme has spread wide and far, I think.

01:14:56 ►

Yeah. When I saw. So where you registered when you came into Sean Conn, Palenque, someone left a bunch of pamphlets.

01:15:01 ►

And that was the first place I saw the meme. And I picked up that pamphlet and just it clicked. It all made perfect sense and uh when i got arrested i contacted

01:15:05 ►

richard immediately and i’m like i want your help will you please uh you know not only send me all

01:15:10 ►

he sent me dude i had the whole collection of the journal of cognitive liberties in my prison cell

01:15:14 ►

in england and uh yeah yeah whenever i get asked to supply a lawyer to somebody that’s in psychedelic

01:15:22 ►

legal trouble richard is the guy who recommends

01:15:25 ►

one to me that uh he’s he’s been good at doing that yeah yeah that’s a good notepad and how

01:15:32 ►

does that i mean how are you anybody’s you’re getting anybody still buying spirit of the

01:15:36 ►

internet oh i i put all my books up on lorenzo hagerty.com for free in PDF format. So everything I do is in the public domain now.

01:15:48 ►

So, you know, I, and I prefer electronic versions.

01:15:52 ►

So they’re not killing trees, but Larry gave me one of the best,

01:15:56 ►

you gave me one of the best compliments of my life really,

01:15:59 ►

that I helped make you a better writer.

01:16:02 ►

You, you certainly did that. And, and what, what. And now that we’re near the end of our time

01:16:08 ►

here, I don’t want to embarrass you too much, but your critiques of writing was very gentle and good.

01:16:16 ►

And you really asked some questions. You actually were one of the reviewers of The Spirit of the

01:16:21 ►

Internet before it was published. And you added so many,

01:16:25 ►

you sent so many questions. I did almost a complete rewrite after I got your response.

01:16:31 ►

But something I was going to say that I know may embarrass you, but Matt Palomary and I,

01:16:38 ►

we hung around you when you were much younger. You weren’t as calm and collected. You were a 20-something, early 20-something type A personality in everybody’s face.

01:16:51 ►

And Matt and I agreed on two things about you.

01:16:53 ►

One is that you were really high overhead at that point in your life.

01:16:59 ►

But we also agreed it was really worth spending time with you because you were literally the most brilliant people person we’d ever come in contact with.

01:17:08 ►

You don’t you don’t show it. But but I tell you what, he Casey has has pointed Matt and I in in so many interesting directions.

01:17:23 ►

And his depth of knowledge is superb.

01:17:27 ►

So I don’t want to embarrass you,

01:17:29 ►

but I hope that you accept that

01:17:31 ►

because you really are.

01:17:32 ►

I was a live wire.

01:17:33 ►

I was unleashed.

01:17:34 ►

I mean, at the age of 12,

01:17:39 ►

my father decided that the best way

01:17:40 ►

to get control of me,

01:17:42 ►

attempting to get control of me,

01:17:44 ►

was to address me in buckskin leathers that he made one stitch at a time and stick me in a handmade cedar canoe and we canoe with, you know, flintlock rifles from Idaho to New Orleans, living off the land.

01:18:01 ►

And, you know, I never fit back.

01:18:04 ►

There was no going back into regular society after that i’ve just

01:18:06 ►

been me all my life and i at that time i was a very uh first off i was unleashed from psychedelics

01:18:14 ►

i was shameless proselytizer i you know the this we’re saving the world and um um you know the

01:18:22 ►

delusions of gratitude that come with that were real at that time and i

01:18:25 ►

fully accept my live awareness um and my ability my sponge of information and integration

01:18:31 ►

integrating thoughts and patterns sutras weaving them together um it’s been my and and i was so

01:18:37 ►

lit up by the fact that i even got to spend time with you lorenzo and then i even got to spend time

01:18:41 ►

with matthew and that i was actually accepted in the community and recognized, you know, seen. You quickly became one of the cornerstones of the

01:18:53 ►

community. We talk about you much more than you realize, but I sincerely appreciate you coming in

01:19:01 ►

here today. And while this isn’t a podcast and i don’t want to make it one because nobody has given permission but uh this is is a really important conversation

01:19:11 ►

and i hope the people who uh from patreon that listen to it will uh pay attention to it because

01:19:17 ►

there’s a lot of information here historical information about this community that uh you

01:19:22 ►

know needs to be preserved. Is this,

01:19:25 ►

Heidi and I are also talking about writing

01:19:27 ►

more of our memoir style.

01:19:29 ►

Is this going to be available for people to listen to?

01:19:33 ►

It’s available

01:19:34 ►

on Patreon.

01:19:36 ►

I get full permission.

01:19:39 ►

My life’s an open book.

01:19:40 ►

You can read it on the radio.

01:19:42 ►

Okay, I don’t know.

01:19:43 ►

Let’s see who else has talked. Ian,

01:19:45 ►

do you have any objection to this being public?

01:19:49 ►

You’re muted, so I guess you have

01:19:51 ►

a lot of objections. Why am I that guy

01:19:53 ►

today? Bloody hell.

01:19:55 ►

I fully

01:19:57 ►

licensed to use me for

01:19:59 ►

all purposes.

01:20:01 ►

Okay, Rio, you talk.

01:20:03 ►

Is it okay with you, Rio?

01:20:06 ►

Yeah. Okay, how about you talk Is it okay with you, Rio? Yeah

01:20:06 ►

Okay, how about you, Rich?

01:20:10 ►

Okay

01:20:11 ►

And Warren

01:20:12 ►

And Steve, I think you said something

01:20:15 ►

Brandon, you said something

01:20:17 ►

Yeah, it’s okay

01:20:18 ►

Okay, well

01:20:19 ►

I was not intending for

01:20:21 ►

To poach the scene

01:20:24 ►

And just take over No, listen, I was trying toending to poach the scene and just take over.

01:20:26 ►

No, listen, I was trying to be very circumspect because I would have liked to have prompted you to do this.

01:20:33 ►

But fortunately, Ian came through for us and asked that question.

01:20:37 ►

And it’s turned into just a delightful conversation.

01:20:40 ►

And I think very historic as far as the psychedelic community background goes.

01:20:46 ►

So I’m going to go ahead and make this a podcast and I’ll put it out next week.

01:20:49 ►

So thank you so much.

01:20:50 ►

You know, on the randomness of, you know, I have one of these old phones.

01:20:54 ►

I charged it up today because I needed to get at something that I needed to get in there.

01:20:58 ►

And, you know, it just floated across like exactly at the moment it was starting.

01:21:02 ►

I got, oh, it’s live now.

01:21:04 ►

I’m like should i

01:21:05 ►

get in oh no you know i don’t want to you know oh no just do it and i got in and uh thanks for

01:21:12 ►

asking questions and i mean i know i don’t know if you guys are ending right now anybody got any

01:21:16 ►

final questions they want to ask me anybody right now come on back yeah. Very much. I need to figure out. So I’m,

01:21:25 ►

I’m reengaging in my life and living out of a calendar.

01:21:31 ►

So the,

01:21:32 ►

you know,

01:21:32 ►

I managed my integrity.

01:21:33 ►

I show up and I expand my capacities and my competencies in the new found

01:21:38 ►

space I’ve created for myself.

01:21:41 ►

And living out of the calendars,

01:21:44 ►

a great thing so i’m going to be putting this in

01:21:47 ►

the calendar um so that i can participate you are a testimony casey to the benefits of psychedelics

01:21:54 ►

on cognitive functioning monday is at 6 30 pacific as well uh So let me write that down. Monday, 6.30.

01:22:07 ►

11.30?

01:22:11 ►

11.30 on Thursdays and 6.30 on Monday.

01:22:13 ►

I’m putting it in the calendar.

01:22:15 ►

All Pacific time, yeah.

01:22:16 ►

Great.

01:22:17 ►

I’ll put it in the calendar.

01:22:24 ►

As I said in the salon, Casey has one of the best minds that I’ve ever encountered.

01:22:25 ►

But it’s his self-confidence that I see as his most important trait.

01:22:30 ►

And I believe that we all owe Casey’s dad a big thank you for cementing that self-confidence in him.

01:22:37 ►

Just imagine taking your teenage son on a canoe adventure that stretches from Utah to New Orleans,

01:22:44 ►

all the while living off the land and using only a flintlock rifle.

01:22:49 ►

For me, that’s a perfect example of the old saying,

01:22:52 ►

what doesn’t kill you will make you stronger.

01:22:56 ►

Well, there’s a lot more I’d like to say right now,

01:22:58 ►

but instead I’m going to take my own advice,

01:23:01 ►

keep the old faith and stay high.

01:23:03 ►

Namaste, my friends.

⚗️ alembic

Explorer

Podcast 697 – “The Adventures of Casey Hardison”

Program Notes §

Previous Episode §

Next Episode §

Similar Episodes §

Transcript §

00:00:00 ► §

00:00:09 ► §

00:00:16 ► §

00:00:19 ► §

00:00:23 ► §

00:00:26 ► §

00:00:32 ► §

00:00:39 ► §

00:00:50 ► §

00:00:56 ► §

00:01:03 ► §

00:01:07 ► §

00:01:14 ► §

00:01:18 ► §

00:01:23 ► §

00:01:27 ► §

00:01:33 ► §

00:01:41 ► §

00:01:48 ► §

00:01:51 ► §

00:01:55 ► §

00:02:00 ► §

00:02:02 ► §

00:02:08 ► §

00:02:17 ► §

00:02:21 ► §

00:02:28 ► §

00:02:34 ► §

00:02:40 ► §

00:02:47 ► §

00:02:54 ► §

00:02:59 ► §

00:03:05 ► §

00:03:12 ► §

00:03:20 ► §

00:03:27 ► §

00:03:33 ► §

00:03:42 ► §

00:03:45 ► §

00:03:52 ► §

00:03:58 ► §

00:04:07 ► §

00:04:10 ► §

00:04:14 ► §

00:04:18 ► §

00:04:22 ► §

00:04:26 ► §

00:04:32 ► §

00:04:38 ► §

00:04:44 ► §

00:04:47 ► §

00:04:53 ► §

00:04:57 ► §

00:05:00 ► §

00:05:08 ► §

00:05:16 ► §

00:05:25 ► §

00:05:32 ► §

00:05:42 ► §

00:05:48 ► §

00:05:51 ► §

00:05:54 ► §

00:05:58 ► §

00:06:01 ► §

00:06:05 ► §

00:06:06 ► §

00:06:10 ► §

00:06:13 ► §

00:06:18 ► §

00:06:25 ► §

00:06:27 ► §

00:06:29 ► §

Program Notes

Previous Episode

Next Episode

Similar Episodes

Transcript

00:00:00 ►

00:00:09 ►

00:00:16 ►

00:00:19 ►

00:00:23 ►

00:00:26 ►

00:00:32 ►

00:00:39 ►

00:00:50 ►

00:00:56 ►

00:01:03 ►

00:01:07 ►

00:01:14 ►

00:01:18 ►

00:01:23 ►

00:01:27 ►

00:01:33 ►

00:01:41 ►

00:01:48 ►

00:01:51 ►

00:01:55 ►

00:02:00 ►

00:02:02 ►

00:02:08 ►

00:02:17 ►

00:02:21 ►

00:02:28 ►

00:02:34 ►

00:02:40 ►

00:02:47 ►

00:02:54 ►

00:02:59 ►

00:03:05 ►

00:03:12 ►

00:03:20 ►

00:03:27 ►

00:03:33 ►

00:03:42 ►

00:03:45 ►

00:03:52 ►

00:03:58 ►

00:04:07 ►

00:04:10 ►

00:04:14 ►

00:04:18 ►

00:04:22 ►

00:04:26 ►

00:04:32 ►

00:04:38 ►

00:04:44 ►

00:04:47 ►

00:04:53 ►

00:04:57 ►

00:05:00 ►

00:05:08 ►

00:05:16 ►

00:05:25 ►

00:05:32 ►

00:05:42 ►

00:05:48 ►

00:05:51 ►

00:05:54 ►

00:05:58 ►

00:06:01 ►

00:06:05 ►

00:06:06 ►

00:06:10 ►

00:06:13 ►

00:06:18 ►

00:06:25 ►

00:06:27 ►

00:06:29 ►

00:06:32 ►

00:06:34 ►

00:06:36 ►