Program Notes
Guest speakers: Ginny Rutherford & Shonagh Home
Today’s podcast features an interview of Ginny Rutherford by Shonagh Home. Ginny is a Certified Transformational Life Coach in the Seattle area. She has studied Alchemical Tarot for the past 5 years and uses the Tarot in her coaching to get insight for her clients and information on their next step. She has spent time in the jungle of Peru participating in the Shamanic ceremonies using Ayahausca. She also uses Amazonian Kambo, Sananga and Rape’ as healing and cleansing medicines. She will be completing her intensive Kambo practitioner training through the IAKP (International Association of Kambo Practitioners) in July. She does currently offer Kambo ceremonies in the Seattle area and can be reached at ginny (at) kambokiss (dot) com or go to her Facebook page Kambo Kiss.
Kambo Kiss
Kambô is a traditional medicine used by native people in the Amazonian rainforest. It is made from a waxy secretion collected from the back and sides of the giant monkey tree frog, Phyllomedusa bicolor.
Sapo In My Soul: The Matsés Frog Medicine By Peter Gorman (Sapo is another name for kambo.)
Shonagh Home is a teacher, shamanic practitioner, and the author of
‘Ix Chel Wisdom: 7 Teachings from the Mayan Sacred Feminine,’
and the upcoming, ‘Honeybee Wisdom: A Modern Melissae Speaks.’
Website: www.shonaghhome.com
Contact: shonagh.home (at) comcast (dot) net
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Transcript
00:00:00 ►
Greetings from cyberdelic space.
00:00:20 ►
This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.
00:00:24 ►
This is Lorenzo, and I’m your host here in the Psychedelic Salon.
00:00:33 ►
And I’d like to begin today by thanking those kind souls who recently sent a donation to help offset some of the expenses here in the salon.
00:00:42 ►
And I would also particularly like to thank two of our fellow saloners for their recent and wonderful comments about my novel out on the Amazon site.
00:00:44 ►
Your kind words mean a lot to me.
00:00:48 ►
So, have you heard about Cambo?
00:00:52 ►
Well, until I previewed today’s talk, neither had I.
00:00:56 ►
First of all, let’s note that this is a legal substance,
00:00:58 ►
as are Senanga and Hape.
00:01:02 ►
And when I went to Arrowwood.org to learn about Cambo, I found only two trip reports and nothing else, and those
00:01:06 ►
were both from 2010. So I’d say that these substances are still deep in the underground
00:01:12 ►
at this point in time. But then again, I’m getting old and could well have missed the boat on this.
00:01:20 ►
In a way, the synchronicity of today’s talk reaching me in the week just immediately after Daniel Pinchbeck’s discussion about toad venom is kind of interesting,
00:01:30 ►
because Cambo turns out to be frog sweat.
00:01:35 ►
So if a friend asks you what we talk about here in the salon, you can, well, you can say we just discussed toad venom and frog sweat.
00:01:43 ►
Well, you can say we just discussed toad venom and frog sweat.
00:01:51 ►
Anyway, today we’re going to listen to two medicine women as we rejoin Shauna Holm,
00:01:58 ►
who will be interviewing Ginny Rutherford about ways in which to integrate these jungle medicines into our Western lifestyles.
00:02:09 ►
As you’ll hear in a moment, their topic includes several cleansing and healing medicines that are commonly found in the Amazon, but which are only now becoming known in the West.
00:02:14 ►
Now, I’m trying to be funny here just because I’m me, so please forgive this.
00:02:19 ►
But the 15-year-old boy in often went with an ayahuasca experience.
00:02:30 ►
So, now we come to Cambo, which not only includes purging, but on top of that, you’re going to get burned as well.
00:02:39 ►
Now, maybe I got that wrong, so let’s join Shauna and Jenny now and see if I got that a little mixed up
00:02:46 ►
or not. Well, I am here today at the home of a medicine woman. And I was, we were actually put
00:02:57 ►
together by a mutual friend of ours who herself is a very accomplished medicine woman in her field.
00:03:06 ►
And she really wanted us to meet.
00:03:08 ►
And we’ve had a couple of very in-depth conversations so far.
00:03:13 ►
And so I’m so honored now to be at her house.
00:03:16 ►
And her name is Ginny Rutherford.
00:03:19 ►
And Ginny is doing her initiation and training as a combo practitioner.
00:03:27 ►
And she also works with Senenga and Hape.
00:03:31 ►
And so she’s going to explain a lot today in terms of how these medicines are used and what they will do for you. And so I’m going to just start here by reading
00:03:49 ►
just an excerpt from an article that I found when I was researching this. And the article is titled
00:03:55 ►
Kambo, the Spirit of the Shaman. And it’s by Marcello Bolsa Gomez, professor of sociology of communication at the Federal University of Rio Grande do Norte.
00:04:08 ►
So Professor Gomez begins with a quote saying, quote,
00:04:12 ►
Cambo circulates in the heart.
00:04:15 ►
Our shaman said that when we take cambo, it makes the heart move accurately so that things flow, bringing good things to the person.
00:04:23 ►
It is as if there was a cloud on the person,
00:04:26 ►
preventing the good things to come. Then, when it takes the combo, it comes a green light,
00:04:32 ►
which opens its ways, making things easier, end quote. And then he writes, there is a Koshinawa
00:04:39 ►
legend that tells that the Indians of the village were very ill, and the shaman Kampu had done everything that was possible to cure them. All medicinal herbs known were used, but none helped
00:04:50 ►
his people’s agony. Kampu then entered the forest, and under the effect of ayahuasca, received the
00:04:56 ►
visit of the great god. He brought in his hands a frog, from which he took a white secretion and
00:05:02 ►
taught how to apply. Returning to the tribe and following the guidelines that he had received,
00:05:08 ►
the shaman Kampu was able to cure his brother Indians.
00:05:11 ►
After his death, the spirit of Kampu has started living in the frog,
00:05:15 ►
and the Indians began to use its secretion to stay active and healthy.
00:05:20 ►
This resin contains peptide substances, dermorphine and deltorphine, that are analgesic and that strengthen the immune system, provoking the destruction of pathogenic microorganisms.
00:05:33 ►
The substances in the frog secretion also have antibiotic properties and strengthen the immune system through the body’s production of antibodies against the poison.
00:05:47 ►
production of antibodies against the poison, also showing great power in the treatment of Parkinson’s,
00:05:55 ►
AIDS, cancer, depression, and other diseases. The deltrophine and dermorphine today are synthetically produced by pharmaceutical laboratories. There is also, due to its purgative effect, an obvious
00:06:00 ►
process of detoxification of the liver, usually one vomits up bitter bile, of intestine
00:06:06 ►
through evacuations, and of the entire digestive system. The katukina also use it as the antidote
00:06:12 ►
in case of snake bite, medicine for many illnesses, and as a tonic. But to the native, the main cause
00:06:19 ►
for taking kambo is to fight panema. Panema means sadness, lack of luck, irritation, bad aura,
00:06:28 ►
as someone once well translated. The person is with panema when nothing goes right and nothing
00:06:34 ►
is good. The basic purpose of Kambo is taking off the panema in order to go hunting and to attract
00:06:41 ►
women. When one talks about Kambo and its definition, some are concerned
00:06:45 ►
about the forest management of the frog, others chemical patents, others with therapeutic
00:06:51 ►
possibilities of its application. But for the Indians, the explanation is much simpler. The
00:06:57 ►
Cambo is the spirit of the Pahe Kampu, accomplishing its mission to protect the health of forest defenders.
00:07:07 ►
And so with that, I want to welcome you, Ginny, to this discussion.
00:07:12 ►
Thank you so much for doing this, for agreeing to this today.
00:07:15 ►
Great, Sean. I’m so glad you read that because I always love hearing that.
00:07:19 ►
It’s a beautiful story about how they used this.
00:07:24 ►
I mean, we can talk about all of the research on the scientific level,
00:07:30 ►
but I love getting down to just the simple part about what this medicine is about.
00:07:35 ►
Well, why don’t you first give everyone sort of an idea of how you came to this in the first place?
00:07:41 ►
Yeah, I always laugh a little bit because I went to Peru a little over
00:07:47 ►
a year ago with the intention of doing ayahuasca. And I was researching that quite heavily. And I
00:07:55 ►
came across a BBC documentary by Bruce Perry, who had done Cambo. And when I saw that documentary,
00:08:03 ►
I’m like, holy cow, that is just some crazy shit. I am never
00:08:07 ►
doing that. So I had this big resistance to it. And so I went and did my ayahuasca and went through
00:08:15 ►
the process of that and all the life changed from that. But right after the first of the year,
00:08:21 ►
I was having a day of just kind of thinking about what the new year was going
00:08:26 ►
to bring me. And that little inner voice said, Oh, you’re going to go do Cambo. And I was like,
00:08:32 ►
what? I am not going to go do Cambo. But knowing what that really that voice is, I sat down and
00:08:39 ►
started researching how to do Cambo because I, I’ve come to realize that the things that I’m most afraid of
00:08:45 ►
or I resist the most are really are the things that my soul’s longing to do and guiding me.
00:08:52 ►
So I found a practitioner in the LA area. His name is Simon Scott and he’s with Kambo Cleanse
00:08:58 ►
and he is actually a master practitioner which is he’s the only one that I am aware of in the United States. So I immediately contacted him, set up a three-day retreat with him, three ceremonies in a row,
00:09:11 ►
and flew down to California and went through the ceremonies. And it was really quite life-changing
00:09:17 ►
in a way that it’s really difficult to put into words because definitely all the things they talk about,
00:09:25 ►
the panima, you know, my experience was that
00:09:28 ►
things kind of just started flowing so much easier for me.
00:09:32 ►
And I had had a low-grade depression.
00:09:35 ►
My mother had died a year ago,
00:09:37 ►
and that seemed to have lifted.
00:09:39 ►
I seemed to have more clarity in my life.
00:09:42 ►
But the thing that I think was most important for me
00:09:45 ►
of what I, I brought back from the Cambo was something opened up inside of me, um, that I
00:09:52 ►
had not been connected to for a long time. And, you know, when people ask you, well, what, what
00:09:57 ►
is that thing? It’s, I can hardly put words to it, but it was like something that I longed for, that I was denying in myself.
00:10:07 ►
And so how I kind of relate it to is just the magic of life. I felt like I got connected
00:10:12 ►
to that magic of life that we have kind of when we’re kids, right? That as we get older,
00:10:19 ►
we forget about it or we just discount it.
00:10:28 ►
And I felt like I got in touch with that magic of life again,
00:10:32 ►
which really gave me such a feeling of purpose.
00:10:35 ►
Because I think what happens as we age,
00:10:39 ►
and my kids are all grown and I have grandkids,
00:10:46 ►
we start losing our purpose. Our society has kind of built a world where the elderly don’t have much purpose anymore.
00:10:51 ►
And we are the elders.
00:10:52 ►
We are the wisdom keepers.
00:10:54 ►
And what happens is a lot of people buy into that
00:10:57 ►
and we start not doing things and becoming old.
00:11:04 ►
And what I found that Cambo did
00:11:05 ►
is it gave me this new lease on life
00:11:07 ►
that I had something to offer the world
00:11:09 ►
and that I was going to keep experiencing life,
00:11:14 ►
that I am one of the elders of this world
00:11:17 ►
and I have a great wisdom to bring to the world.
00:11:20 ►
And so it opened up the space for me to do that.
00:11:23 ►
So that was like the icing on the cake, right?
00:11:27 ►
It was the beautiful part of the whole thing.
00:11:30 ►
Yeah, well, what was the actual ceremony itself like?
00:11:36 ►
Yeah, you know, the ceremony, it sounds really scary as you’re reading about it.
00:11:41 ►
And literally, the fear is way worse than the actual. So
00:11:46 ►
it’s Simon who is the master practitioner there. He has this beautiful way of holding space.
00:11:53 ►
And because of his compassion and his demeanor and his connection with the medicine,
00:11:58 ►
you have this real feeling of safety and peace. So we arrived. It was my daughter and I.
00:12:06 ►
She decided to do this with me.
00:12:08 ►
And we arrived there,
00:12:09 ►
and first thing is he gives us a cup of tea,
00:12:11 ►
and we sit and talk about what our intention is
00:12:13 ►
with the Cambo.
00:12:15 ►
And so we have a little time just to get settled in.
00:12:18 ►
He has it set up so we have mats,
00:12:20 ►
and we bring our own blankets.
00:12:22 ►
And it’s a beautiful setting where he had it set
00:12:24 ►
in the Topanga Canyon.
00:12:27 ►
So I remember this beautiful oak tree that I laid next to,
00:12:31 ►
and it had such great power.
00:12:33 ►
And so I have a great fond memory of that.
00:12:36 ►
First thing that we did was the sananga.
00:12:39 ►
And sananga is called lightning in the eye.
00:12:42 ►
And it is a really powerful ancient medicine.
00:12:45 ►
That’s how I experienced it.
00:12:49 ►
And so what it does,
00:12:50 ►
it’s made by smashing the roots of a bushy jungle plant
00:12:53 ►
with clean water.
00:12:55 ►
And this has been used for generations in the jungle.
00:13:01 ►
So what it does is it,
00:13:02 ►
for serious conditions like depression, insomnia, chemical
00:13:05 ►
dependencies or chronic headaches and even migraines, Sananga could be really helpful
00:13:10 ►
when you use it regularly. For less difficult problems, like just for general clarity, you
00:13:18 ►
can simply use it when you need to use it. But indians believe that sananga not only clears certain physical
00:13:27 ►
conditions but also deletes the negative thought forms and removes the inharmonious elements of
00:13:34 ►
the energy body so after the sananga you feel very clear and peaceful and um i felt very i felt very
00:13:43 ►
into my body so it pulled me right into the ground,
00:13:47 ►
into my body,
00:13:48 ►
so that I could really be present to the moment.
00:13:53 ►
But it was a little challenging that first time,
00:13:55 ►
because it is lightning in the eye,
00:13:57 ►
but when you breathe through that,
00:14:00 ►
and when you get through that,
00:14:01 ►
you feel really good.
00:14:02 ►
And how long does the burning in the eyes last?
00:14:04 ►
Yeah, it lasts for, I mean, on a really difficult level, maybe for a minute.
00:14:09 ►
Okay.
00:14:09 ►
And then maybe another minute or two you’re going to lay there with your eyes closed
00:14:12 ►
and then finally you open your eyes and things just seem a little clearer.
00:14:16 ►
It felt like I saw things I hadn’t seen before.
00:14:19 ►
And it’s a really beautiful start to the Cambo ceremony
00:14:24 ►
just because it gets us all right there in our bodies.
00:14:28 ►
And it already starts this partial clearing, which was amazing.
00:14:33 ►
As you do Sananga, the second time I did it, it was much easier.
00:14:36 ►
And the third time, as I continue to do Sananga, it becomes much easier,
00:14:40 ►
but still get the great benefits of it.
00:14:43 ►
I kind of had this thought in my mind that, um,
00:14:46 ►
because this is such an ancient, uh, medicine that we’re not used to it. And so the first time that
00:14:52 ►
we get it, we have a big shock because it’s, it’s something foreign to our, to our own energetic
00:14:59 ►
body. We’re like, Whoa, what, what is that? So we have that reaction to it and then the next time our body’s
00:15:05 ►
more used to it it’s not such a shock to it and then and then it becomes a part of who we are
00:15:10 ►
you know and so we can take it much easier so i i mean i would highly recommend the senenga
00:15:16 ►
just because the benefits of it are so great and and is the senenga sometimes used before ayahuasca
00:15:23 ►
as well are any of these used yeah all of these
00:15:26 ►
particularly the cambo a lot of people will use the cambo before ayahuasca because you already get
00:15:31 ►
that purging effect and so when you do ayahuasca if you have a lot to purge you’re going to spend
00:15:37 ►
a lot of time purging rather than getting into the beautiful visions and and the healing that
00:15:43 ►
that mother ayahuasca wants to bring to you.
00:15:46 ►
So a lot of people will do Campbell first.
00:15:49 ►
They’ll do it maybe in the morning, and they’ll already start that purge,
00:15:52 ►
and then they get much more benefit out of the Ayahuasca when they do it.
00:15:57 ►
Okay.
00:15:57 ►
So it’s a good complementary.
00:15:59 ►
I think you could use the Sananga with the Ayahuasca,
00:16:03 ►
but it’s not traditionally.
00:16:07 ►
They don’t talk about it so much of using it.
00:16:10 ►
Okay, but traditionally it is used with the Kambo?
00:16:10 ►
It is.
00:16:11 ►
Okay.
00:16:13 ►
Yes, it is traditionally used with the Kambo for sure.
00:16:13 ►
Okay.
00:16:18 ►
So that was really beautiful, and we kind of got settled in from that.
00:16:27 ►
And then we went to do the, you can use the hape before the kambal also, which I have done that.
00:16:34 ►
And what it does is it is a snuff made from the jungle tobacco.
00:16:37 ►
And then there’s the ash from the sunu tree.
00:16:46 ►
And it’s really a very, well, in the jungle, the tribes, they call it a teacher, a guide, and a powerful healer.
00:16:52 ►
So it clears the mind, and it gives cohesion to your thoughts, and it heals the body.
00:16:56 ►
And it’s primarily used to enhance your communication power.
00:17:00 ►
So a lot of times they will use this when they take it in ceremony,
00:17:04 ►
before deals are made and settled, or before before making plans or just to get in touch
00:17:06 ►
with your inner self. So it’s a really lovely medicine too. My experience with it is that it
00:17:13 ►
just clears out my mind. It stops all the inner chatter and kind of opens that headspace. I always
00:17:19 ►
feel like it opens up the headspace into the other realm for me. And I’m sure everybody will have
00:17:24 ►
their own experience, but that’s how I experience it okay so this is the happy that’s the happy
00:17:29 ►
which is spelled how it’s spelled r-a-p-e with a little accent yeah accent on it okay
00:17:35 ►
pronounced happy okay so once you do that then you start the campo and. And how that worked, and again, Simon is a wonderful, I call him a little
00:17:48 ►
a gentle warrior, because so he takes you one at a time, and he intuits how many burn points
00:17:56 ►
that you require. He always asks you if you have intuited that, and if you don’t know, he intuits
00:18:03 ►
that for you, or what i find is every time he
00:18:06 ►
we’re right on we both have the same number so the first time that i did it i really felt like
00:18:12 ►
i needed five points could you explain the burn point yes i know that’s a little shocking i know
00:18:18 ►
that’s the scary part for most everybody that was a scary part for me too but they’re really very
00:18:22 ►
small so they make these little burn points they’re
00:18:25 ►
more superficial so they just go through the first couple of layers you know and just to open that up
00:18:30 ►
of the skin how do they do that so he takes a little um vine and he heats it up so that it’s
00:18:37 ►
you know red and then he just very quickly will touch your skin with it okay and it makes a little
00:18:43 ►
mark and it’s very small it’s like the size of maybe a match stick.
00:18:47 ►
And so my first time I took five.
00:18:50 ►
Some people take three.
00:18:51 ►
It just depends.
00:18:53 ►
And once he makes those little marks,
00:18:55 ►
then he will put the cambo on it.
00:19:02 ►
And once that cambo goes on there,
00:19:04 ►
you start feeling the effects fairly quickly.
00:19:06 ►
So you will go sit on your mat and everybody’s kind of holding the space for you, but certainly
00:19:15 ►
Simon is holding the space for you. So he doesn’t go to the next person until you’ve kind of got
00:19:19 ►
through a certain period. So my experience was you, in about a minute to two minutes, you start feeling
00:19:29 ►
heat come up through your body. So the cambo doesn’t go into your bloodstream. It really
00:19:34 ►
goes into your lymphatic system. So I felt this heat coming up through my body and my ears felt really hot and my face felt a little tingly. And then I felt this, something inside very deep in my lower stomach.
00:19:54 ►
It was something so very deep and you could almost feel like it, like it felt to be like
00:19:58 ►
a, like a ball just turning and then it starts rising.
00:20:03 ►
And it’s not like, it’s not like an illness or anything
00:20:06 ►
like that but you feel this energy that starts to rise and it rises and then that’s when you purge
00:20:12 ►
and you purge for about five minutes five to ten minutes so before the ceremony just before you do
00:20:20 ►
the cambo you drink two liters of water and you don’t you do um fast for at least
00:20:26 ►
12 hours before the ceremony also so you start purging and um and it’s a it’s really a very
00:20:34 ►
beautiful purge and it happens very quickly and some people will um you know will throw up and
00:20:41 ►
some people will i always say throw down okay and that people will, I always say, throw down.
00:20:47 ►
Okay, and that’s a beautiful purge.
00:20:49 ►
Yes, it is a beautiful purge.
00:20:49 ►
Okay.
00:20:56 ►
And once that is done, and this is really like 10 to 15 minutes, the whole process,
00:20:58 ►
it goes very quickly.
00:21:01 ►
And then you will rest for about 45 minutes to an hour.
00:21:07 ►
And Simon had a cup of tea there waiting, when you kind of look you know felt like sitting up again you drank your tea and that’s that’s it and you feel
00:21:14 ►
really awesome you feel very good you feel like you have some energy you feel as though something
00:21:19 ►
was lifted and so the first time they say that you get about 50% of the effects.
00:21:25 ►
The second time, then about three quarters, about 75%.
00:21:29 ►
And then that last, that third time, to me, was like the icing on the cake.
00:21:33 ►
You get 100% of the effects and you really feel like a million bucks.
00:21:37 ►
You feel like you can take on the world.
00:21:40 ►
And then my experience from that was like, oh my gosh, everything’s become so easy.
00:21:44 ►
It just felt like everything flowed so easily.
00:21:48 ►
So it’s really, it’s working with you on the physical, but also energetically as well.
00:21:53 ►
Exactly.
00:21:53 ►
The other thing I found is that I did this on, I did it on Valentine’s Day.
00:21:59 ►
So I said I was going to be kissed by a frog on Valentine’s Day.
00:22:03 ►
But everybody was going through that terrible, terrible flu.
00:22:08 ►
And I spent a lot of time around them, the influenza.
00:22:10 ►
And I didn’t get anything.
00:22:13 ►
As a matter of fact, I haven’t really been sick since I did the Cambo.
00:22:20 ►
So it really, you know, in the jungle, they call it a vaccine.
00:22:24 ►
You know, in our Western world, we’d call it a poison, of course.
00:22:27 ►
But I just call it a beautiful, loving medicine.
00:22:30 ►
And so it really boosts your immune system on a very large scale.
00:22:37 ►
It boosts your immune system, but it also sounds like it really does clear a lot of the mental clutter.
00:22:44 ►
Right.
00:22:45 ►
Yeah, and there’s a shaman in Belize.
00:22:48 ►
Her name is Rosita Arvigo,
00:22:50 ►
and she apprenticed under a Mayan shaman, Don Aligio Panti.
00:22:54 ►
And so he taught her about susto,
00:22:57 ►
which is the term for like a spiritual illness.
00:23:02 ►
Which I would say in modern society is in a crisis mode here
00:23:08 ►
with all sorts of spiritual illnesses.
00:23:10 ►
And so from what you’re saying, it seems as if these medicines are clearing a lot of the susto,
00:23:19 ►
the spiritual, and then that of course would have an effect on the physical body,
00:23:24 ►
making you much more resilient down the road,
00:23:27 ►
and also clearing the mind so that, as you say,
00:23:32 ►
it doesn’t feel like there is…
00:23:34 ►
Because really, it’s like the prison is in our mind.
00:23:36 ►
The prison is in our mind,
00:23:38 ►
and it really kind of opens the gates to that prison.
00:23:43 ►
One of the things I like about the
00:23:45 ►
Kambo, because I have done the
00:23:47 ►
ayahuasca, the ayahuasca
00:23:49 ►
and believe me, it is a
00:23:51 ►
life changer also.
00:23:53 ►
But for the ayahuasca, it really
00:23:55 ►
took me months to integrate that
00:23:57 ►
and really fully
00:23:59 ►
receive all the wisdom from that.
00:24:02 ►
And sometimes I still feel like I’m
00:24:03 ►
getting bits and pieces of
00:24:05 ►
that. The Senenga or the Kambo, you have an immediate effect. So you immediately feel the
00:24:13 ►
difference. And it’s not a magic pill, which is, I think our society is always looking for a magic
00:24:18 ►
pill. We still have to do our own work. We still have to, you know, look at our, our shadow. But what this does is it opens
00:24:26 ►
us up to be able to do that. It clears out those blocks so we can actually look at our shadow
00:24:30 ►
and heal that part of ourselves and integrate it and, you know, and synthesize it into something
00:24:35 ►
else. And that’s what I loved about it. It felt like I could actually go and do the work much
00:24:40 ►
easier too, that I was doing on myself. Mm-hmm. All right.
00:24:45 ►
And so, I mean, clearly this has made a huge impression on you
00:24:49 ►
because you are now training.
00:24:52 ►
Yes.
00:24:52 ►
To do this for others.
00:24:54 ►
Right.
00:24:54 ►
I’m getting ready to leave here in about four or five weeks in July
00:24:59 ►
going to Gdansk, Poland to train with a master trainer who is from Brazil to learn how to be a
00:25:10 ►
practitioner on all the different levels. I will then go to the jungle in the fall for a month to
00:25:17 ►
stay with the tribe and also have that initiation on another level level so i always think there’s all these different
00:25:25 ►
levels that we train on um so i’m looking forward to that also but yeah it had a huge effect on my
00:25:32 ►
life as a matter of fact it changed my life and changed the whole direction of it so uh it kind
00:25:38 ►
of was like all the things i’ve been doing the past few years just came to that one moment and
00:25:43 ►
then i had this clarity about what I needed
00:25:45 ►
to do for myself, what I was here to do. And it’s just been lovely. I feel very clear about my path
00:25:54 ►
and my life and who I am and what I need to do. Okay, I want to ask you about the spirits behind these medicines.
00:26:06 ►
Definitely.
00:26:07 ►
And what your sense is of the spirit behind the combo, the frog.
00:26:13 ►
It’s frog sweat, yes?
00:26:15 ►
It’s frog sweat.
00:26:16 ►
Yeah, and in the jungle, how they actually harvest that is really important because we feel that in our body when we use the kambo
00:26:27 ►
of the intention and the spirit in which it was harvested.
00:26:31 ►
So in the jungle, you have to be somewhat careful
00:26:35 ►
about what kambo you’re using and where it comes from
00:26:39 ►
and who harvests it.
00:26:41 ►
Because every time there’s something where money is to be made there’s
00:26:45 ►
always people who go out there and just harvest it and do things for the money right so i’m very
00:26:49 ►
careful about that uh where my sources are because the really the shaman who collect this are very
00:26:57 ►
careful in how they collect it from the frog so they the frog cannot be harmed um they can’t
00:27:03 ►
over harvest it so they let it go and so they tie the feet they take they sing to the frog cannot be harmed. They can’t over-harvest it, so they let it go.
00:27:06 ►
So they tie the feet.
00:27:08 ►
They sing to the frog, and they get the frog,
00:27:10 ►
and then they tie the feet and the legs,
00:27:12 ►
which sounds really bad, but the frog is not harmed.
00:27:14 ►
And then the shaman sings to it, and it sweats.
00:27:18 ►
Now, they cannot reproduce that in the laboratory.
00:27:23 ►
Of course not.
00:27:24 ►
Yeah, which is probably irritating i’m sure to
00:27:27 ►
big pharma but so then they collect that on a little flat stick and and dry it and so they can
00:27:34 ►
only do so much of that for just a short period of time they let the frog go and then it has the
00:27:38 ►
little rings around its feet where it’s been tied and so if another shaman sees that frog, they know that they,
00:27:45 ►
because it takes about two months for that to heal and go away,
00:27:48 ►
they know that they cannot harvest that frog.
00:27:51 ►
And so it makes a big difference
00:27:53 ►
in the intention of the harvesting
00:27:55 ►
on how you experience it inside your own body.
00:28:00 ►
Of course.
00:28:00 ►
And the strength of it.
00:28:01 ►
So yeah, the spirit of that frog is very powerful. And
00:28:07 ►
again, you can feel the difference based on the different places in which it comes from
00:28:13 ►
and how it’s been harvested. Now the Senenga, that is a very, very ancient, powerful spirit.
00:28:24 ►
that is a very, very ancient, powerful spirit.
00:28:29 ►
And again, I think that’s why it’s so difficult for us that first time.
00:28:33 ►
Because it feels like it just has its job to do,
00:28:35 ►
and that’s what it’s interested in doing.
00:28:38 ►
It’s just going to go in and do its job to humanity,
00:28:40 ►
and it’s not interested in anything else.
00:28:46 ►
So because we’re not used to those types of powerful ancient spirits within our own body the first time is challenging i i i wonder also if really these medicines serve also to bring us
00:28:55 ►
back into our body that has been my experience and there’s i think well, my experience is I was, I’m always brought right back into my body on a very, very deep level, very grounded and centered from it.
00:29:11 ►
But I also have this sense of just this, this, this, the spirit of and the energy of this medicine just kind of going through and, you know, doing a little scan and getting rid of uh you know healing what needs to
00:29:26 ►
go when i’m when i’m using it it’s kind of how i feel with it the happy is to me completely
00:29:34 ►
different on some respects and of course it is the most powerful uh medicine in the jungle. They have a great deal of respect for the happy.
00:29:47 ►
So it has to be used
00:29:49 ►
with that level of respect
00:29:50 ►
and care.
00:29:54 ►
So what it does
00:29:55 ►
for me, and like I said,
00:29:57 ►
I’m sure everybody has a different experience, but for me
00:29:59 ►
it stops that mental
00:30:01 ►
chaotic chatter.
00:30:03 ►
It opens up my headspace and it just
00:30:07 ►
connects me with a different level a different none of these are psychedelics
00:30:13 ►
but it does still connect me with a different dimension in some respects not
00:30:21 ►
on the level that ayahuasca does but you just have to feel connected
00:30:26 ►
and would you say a more expanded awareness and yes and more of a presence to the moment
00:30:34 ►
yes if i could say i always have difficulty finding the exact right words yeah because
00:30:41 ►
there’s hardly any words that you can put to it. I mean, you know, languages can be difficult to really,
00:30:48 ►
when it comes to these plant medicines,
00:30:49 ►
I think language does it a disservice.
00:30:52 ►
So for me, I have a really difficult time putting it into a language
00:30:56 ►
that fully encompasses how I feel about it.
00:31:00 ►
But yeah, I think on a level it does expand our consciousness
00:31:03 ►
and there’s an expansion of awareness. So yeah, I would say a level it does expand our consciousness and there’s an expansion of awareness.
00:31:07 ►
So yeah, I would say that’s a good term.
00:31:09 ►
Okay, all right.
00:31:11 ►
And I think it’s also very interesting that you’ve come to this later in life.
00:31:17 ►
We were talking a little bit about this before.
00:31:21 ►
Also, well, give us just an idea of your background yeah well and including you know your bloodlines
00:31:30 ►
you know like what your your family background well my experience when i was uh my my great
00:31:35 ►
great grandmother is a full-blood cherokee indian and walked the trail of tears. But I think the next generation, my great-grandfather’s generation,
00:31:48 ►
they denied all of that, that heritage, because there was shame involved in that.
00:31:53 ►
You know, the white man shamed the Native Americans into not wanting to be that.
00:32:01 ►
So they were wanting them to conform to the way of life of the white man.
00:32:06 ►
So my great-grandfather very much
00:32:10 ►
did not want to be a part of that heritage.
00:32:14 ►
And what I remember of him
00:32:16 ►
was that he had this,
00:32:18 ►
almost this sadness about him
00:32:21 ►
and this anger about him
00:32:23 ►
that he kept deep inside. And I always attributed
00:32:26 ►
that to the fact that he was in denial of who he is, who he was. So as the generations
00:32:34 ►
went on, I had this experience a few years ago of meeting a shaman who said to me, oh,
00:32:43 ►
you’re a Cherokee medicine woman,
00:32:46 ►
which I thought was very interesting
00:32:48 ►
because he would have no way of knowing
00:32:50 ►
that I had that heritage.
00:32:53 ►
And of course, I was in complete denial about that too
00:32:56 ►
because that was our family history, right?
00:32:59 ►
That we were in denial about who we are.
00:33:02 ►
But as the time has gone on,
00:33:04 ►
I have realized that, yes,
00:33:06 ►
that is my heritage.
00:33:09 ►
And I have an opportunity in my generation
00:33:12 ►
to embrace that again
00:33:15 ►
so that my children and grandchildren
00:33:17 ►
can embrace who they are also.
00:33:22 ►
So that’s how, that was,
00:33:24 ►
I was in complete denial about a lot of this.
00:33:28 ►
I never took any drugs.
00:33:29 ►
I did everything, my other grandfather on the other side of the family was a Baptist minister.
00:33:35 ►
So very steeped in dogma and religion and hell and damnation.
00:33:41 ►
So I, you know, followed that path. And so the thought of doing anything, any kind of drug,
00:33:49 ►
drinking, you know, I read the tarot cards. I’ve been studying the tarot now for
00:33:54 ►
for five years. That would have been just horrifying. That would have been a huge sin.
00:34:02 ►
So coming into who I am has taken some time,
00:34:06 ►
and I think that’s why later on in life,
00:34:09 ►
I think when I got to a certain age,
00:34:11 ►
I finally realized that life was passing me by
00:34:13 ►
and I wasn’t experiencing it.
00:34:15 ►
I was doing what culture said I should do.
00:34:17 ►
This is what culture says you should do,
00:34:20 ►
and I was doing that.
00:34:21 ►
Staying within the safe container.
00:34:23 ►
Exactly.
00:34:24 ►
And I finally came to this place in my life
00:34:27 ►
that I wanted to experience life.
00:34:29 ►
I felt like I hadn’t experienced it.
00:34:31 ►
And I wanted to deal with some of my old belief systems.
00:34:36 ►
And so that’s what my journey started at.
00:34:38 ►
And I very simply, my first thing I did
00:34:41 ►
was I smoked a cigarette when I was 50,
00:34:43 ►
on my 50th birthday,
00:34:48 ►
as kind of my coming out, my rebellion.
00:34:52 ►
And I thought, wow, I smoked a cigarette,
00:34:55 ►
and I felt very naughty about that, I guess.
00:34:59 ►
So it was interesting. So I’ve gone on this journey of finding out who I am
00:35:02 ►
and stepping into that,
00:35:06 ►
letting go of those old belief systems, which is really such freedom.
00:35:10 ►
I feel finally that I have some freedom of that prison of our thoughts and our mind.
00:35:17 ►
Right, the belief systems.
00:35:18 ►
And that takes great courage to go all the way to Peru
00:35:22 ►
and to take a plant medicine totally unfamiliar
00:35:27 ►
to you. I mean, that’s a big deal. It was. I always laugh about that because people are like,
00:35:34 ►
when I said I’m going to Peru, they’re all like, you’re going to Peru? You’ve never talked about
00:35:38 ►
going to Peru. And my experience was I woke up one morning in the middle of the night with a voice saying to me, you’re going to Peru.
00:35:46 ►
And I thought, I don’t think I’m going to Peru.
00:35:50 ►
There’s no way I’m going to Peru.
00:35:52 ►
I’ve never wanted to go to Peru.
00:35:53 ►
I am not going to Peru.
00:35:55 ►
And then two months later, I went to Peru.
00:35:58 ►
But, yeah, that was really, you know, I know it looks like it’s very courageous and that, you know, people sometimes
00:36:06 ►
look at that as being fearless, but I had fear. I just wasn’t going to allow that to keep me from
00:36:12 ►
experiencing the fullness of life. So it’s not like we don’t have fear. We do. That’s part of
00:36:18 ►
the human condition. It’s that do we let fear control us or do we look at it for what it actually is and one of my
00:36:27 ►
intentions in going to Peru and doing ayahuasca was actually to take a look at my fears
00:36:33 ►
and it was so interesting to me how it turned out the one night that we did not do an ayahuasca
00:36:39 ►
ceremony was the night that I actually dealt with my fear. And so we all went to bed fairly early because we had been doing, you know,
00:36:47 ►
we’d been doing a lot.
00:36:49 ►
And I woke up a couple hours later to the shaman singing Vintiata,
00:36:56 ►
which is a blessing.
00:36:57 ►
And they usually sing that to the person when they know they’re going to face
00:37:01 ►
something that’s going to be challenging.
00:37:04 ►
So I heard him singing, and I was thinking,
00:37:07 ►
so we’re not having a ceremony, why is he singing?
00:37:10 ►
And I sat there and listened for a few minutes,
00:37:12 ►
and the minute he stopped, this fear came upon me like I’ve never experienced.
00:37:18 ►
It was one of those, and it’s hot in the jungle, of course,
00:37:20 ►
but I was so cold, it was that inner,
00:37:24 ►
I always think it was like that
00:37:25 ►
icy cold hand of death and fear came upon me. And it was, it was really, really difficult. And I
00:37:33 ►
kept thinking, well, maybe I should get up and go see somebody and have one of the shamans help me
00:37:37 ►
through this. But, um, the minute I had that thought, this started thundering and lightning
00:37:43 ►
in a way that I’ve never experienced
00:37:45 ►
and it started pouring down rain so hard it was the biggest storm I’ve ever heard and so I I thought
00:37:52 ►
I’m not going to get up because I’m already afraid and so I had to really stay in that space and and
00:37:58 ►
work through that through the night and it was I always say it was the longest night I’ve ever experienced but when the dawn
00:38:06 ►
came, I felt like I had
00:38:08 ►
looked at my fear
00:38:10 ►
and
00:38:11 ►
and had
00:38:13 ►
I hate to use the word conquer
00:38:15 ►
but I had
00:38:17 ►
integrated it I guess
00:38:20 ►
and synthesized it into something else
00:38:22 ►
within myself
00:38:23 ►
well that night feels like an initiation of sorts.
00:38:28 ►
Definitely.
00:38:28 ►
Yeah.
00:38:29 ►
Definitely.
00:38:31 ►
So I left the jungle.
00:38:33 ►
Of all the beautiful experiences I had with ayahuasca,
00:38:37 ►
that experience was probably the one that was the biggest shift in me
00:38:42 ►
in that I could see fear for what it actually is.
00:38:48 ►
And so now when I feel fear, I usually try to have a conversation with it.
00:38:55 ►
Like, who are you and what do you want and are you here to teach me something?
00:39:01 ►
And I usually get an answer.
00:39:03 ►
But I don’t let it control my life and i think that’s a i
00:39:07 ►
think as we talk about the cambo and doing that most people when you talk about it their first
00:39:13 ►
initial reaction is fear and i’m not going to ever do that in resistance because i i get that that
00:39:19 ►
was my first uh reaction also but that medicine and all these medicines and i’m sure shana you’ve experienced
00:39:27 ►
this too they call us they do and when you get that that inkling in the back that that small
00:39:35 ►
still voice that says you should do this then you should do it That’s your inner guidance telling you what your soul’s longing to do
00:39:47 ►
and what can be of great service to you.
00:39:51 ►
So yes, you may experience a little fear,
00:39:54 ►
but if you could just take fear for what it is,
00:39:57 ►
just another emotion, just like any other emotion that we have,
00:40:01 ►
and push through that and listen to that voice of intuition and of your soul,
00:40:08 ►
those are the things that give us the great lessons of life.
00:40:13 ►
And to me, that’s the magic of life and the great joy and beauty of life.
00:40:20 ►
I feel so connected to these medicines.
00:40:23 ►
I can hardly imagine not having them in my
00:40:27 ►
life now. They’re just so beautiful and have such an effect.
00:40:31 ►
We were talking earlier about how we were both agreeing that these medicines really really usher us back into our humanity.
00:40:46 ►
Yes.
00:40:46 ►
And how this artificial construct in which we live, called a society,
00:40:53 ►
which is really the world of form.
00:40:56 ►
Definitely.
00:40:56 ►
And so we’ve been very caught up in the world of form,
00:41:00 ►
to literally, you know, the forms we fill out with all that writing,
00:41:04 ►
you know, we give them power and it’s just a piece of paper, really nothing more.
00:41:09 ►
And then there is substance, which is that which animates or enervates the form.
00:41:15 ►
And so my feeling is that that substance is what it is to be a human being and to be fully present and in relationship
00:41:28 ►
with the natural world around us.
00:41:31 ►
And I really feel that I call her Mama.
00:41:37 ►
The earth is calling us back through her plants.
00:41:41 ►
And then the beings, the substance behind these plants, the spirits are saying,
00:41:47 ►
human beings, come back. Yes, wake up, come back. We’re not separate.
00:41:57 ►
I think what I’ve had an experience, particularly lately, is that it’s time to really look at reality because we know this uh this
00:42:11 ►
world of form yes there’s some there’s some realness to it of course on that uh physical
00:42:18 ►
level but we have so many other levels and we don’t experience all of them but we really it’s really helpful i find
00:42:26 ►
to look at reality go past all the stuff all of culture i always love terence mckenna because
00:42:35 ►
his saying is culture is not our friend and when we can get past culture and start seeing reality for what it actually is because my my experience with myself
00:42:50 ►
but a lot of other people is that we don’t want to look at reality we want to construct this stuff
00:42:57 ►
in our mind because it feels safe to us and and the reality of it is is that isn’t safe at all.
00:43:08 ►
So when we can start looking at reality for what it actually is and see the realness of it, that’s our freedom.
00:43:12 ►
Yes, seeing what is real and what is illusion.
00:43:15 ►
Yes.
00:43:15 ►
And also to be a seer, you must be able to see the whole thing.
00:43:20 ►
You don’t get to choose.
00:43:22 ►
You don’t get to be in preference.
00:43:24 ►
You must see it all.
00:43:26 ►
You must see what is real and what is illusion.
00:43:30 ►
Absolutely.
00:43:32 ►
I had this experience just the other day
00:43:35 ►
with one of my customers,
00:43:40 ►
my clients that I work with.
00:43:43 ►
We were doing some tarot work,
00:43:45 ►
and that’s exactly what showed up.
00:43:47 ►
For her, her life has just been so hard to deal with,
00:43:52 ►
and what the cards were saying is that you’re not looking at reality.
00:43:57 ►
You have choices, and I think a lot of times we feel like we don’t have choices.
00:44:01 ►
And we have all kinds of choices, and we just can’t see them.
00:44:05 ►
So when we actually start looking at the reality of the situations we can make choices and we use our
00:44:12 ►
will in a skillful way i feel like our society has stopped using their will um i’m not talking
00:44:21 ►
about that strong will where we plow through things. I’m talking about using our will in a very skillful way.
00:44:27 ►
I think we’ve lost our ability to do that.
00:44:30 ►
And that’s why we suffer so much.
00:44:33 ►
Because we think we have no choice.
00:44:35 ►
We think this is the way it has to be.
00:44:39 ►
And when we start getting in touch with the fact that we have choices
00:44:45 ►
and using our own will in that way, we really do feel free.
00:44:50 ►
And that’s what these plant medicines do.
00:44:54 ►
They help us to see that.
00:44:57 ►
That’s what they’ve done for me anyway.
00:44:59 ►
I don’t know what your experience, but for me, they’ve helped me to see that.
00:45:02 ►
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
00:45:04 ►
Well, and they clear out so much of the clutter.
00:45:08 ►
They clear out the old belief systems.
00:45:11 ►
They clear out, well, they make it very clear to you,
00:45:15 ►
you know, what your fears are, what is holding you back.
00:45:19 ►
And that is a huge assist.
00:45:21 ►
And then when you are complete with that experience with the medicine then you must
00:45:26 ►
then you know walk that path of your life and take the steps necessary to activate what you received
00:45:36 ►
and and that takes will it does it takes an act of will and i had this experience on the very last
00:45:42 ►
ayahuasca ceremony which this was so beautiful for me
00:45:45 ►
is that i actually experienced love now when we say the word love people think of that emotional
00:45:52 ►
love right that there’s an emotion involved with it was a knowing and so i had this sense that knowledge is love
00:46:10 ►
and i can’t you know it’s hard for me to put that into real words because it’s it’s such a it’s a
00:46:16 ►
such a knowing inside of me but that type of love would you experience that that that’s what then
00:46:24 ►
you know there’s a knowing that goes along with it. So I
00:46:27 ►
always relate knowledge to that divine love. It isn’t that mushy, oh, you know, all we need is
00:46:35 ►
love. It’s not that. It’s that abstract divine love. And I definitely relate it to knowledge.
00:46:42 ►
So when we are starting to look at the world with knowledge and the reality of it,
00:46:49 ►
that to me is divine love.
00:46:53 ►
And that’s an abstract thought.
00:46:56 ►
When I had that thought, I had to really ponder on it for quite a while to put that into a context.
00:47:04 ►
So would you say it’s like gnosis
00:47:06 ►
definitely yes it’s gnosis and that must be found within no one in other words no one can give that
00:47:15 ►
to you and it’s not going to be found on the external and this is also what i see with these
00:47:19 ►
medicines uh including the uh the combo and the senga and the hape, that they are taking you within.
00:47:28 ►
Definitely.
00:47:29 ►
And there’s that saying from the Bible that the kingdom of heaven is where?
00:47:34 ►
Within.
00:47:35 ►
Within you.
00:47:36 ►
It’s all in here.
00:47:37 ►
And my teacher, Brew Joy, used to say, it’s not out there.
00:47:40 ►
Yes.
00:47:41 ►
He’d say, it’s in here, pointing to himself.
00:47:43 ►
It’s all in here.
00:47:46 ►
Definitely. I always love that saying, don’t comb the mirror. So if we want to change the outside, uh, of our experience,
00:47:56 ►
we have, uh, we have to comb our own hair. We don’t comb the mirror hair, uh, the, the hair in
00:48:02 ►
the mirror. We have to comb our own hair and that changes the reflection
00:48:07 ►
of the mirror so uh i feel like you’re right we have to go in and change our inside and does it
00:48:16 ►
change the outside yeah yes in some ways it does yes we we know there’s still war, and we know there’s still all these terrible
00:48:27 ►
things that can happen, and we know we can’t control the weather. But something happens
00:48:33 ►
inside that takes away the fear of all of that, and that we can walk in the world with
00:48:41 ►
our own strength and power.
00:48:43 ►
we can walk in the world with our own strength and power.
00:48:50 ►
Well, I have also noted, both within myself and numerous people who I’ve spoken to, and yourself as well, who work with these medicines,
00:48:54 ►
that what has happened for them is they have been very activated to be in service.
00:49:01 ►
Definitely.
00:49:02 ►
And so here you are.
00:49:04 ►
You’ve had these profound experiences.
00:49:06 ►
And it’s one thing to go there and have that experience.
00:49:09 ►
And, of course, you change your life, hopefully, in very positive ways.
00:49:15 ►
It’s quite another to be inspired to then take on the role of practitioner,
00:49:30 ►
inspired to then take on the role of practitioner, to put in the time and the effort, the commitment to training under someone, if that is required, and learn as much as you can so that you yourself
00:49:39 ►
can make this available to others. And I can certainly say, Ginny, that I would love nothing more than to be
00:49:46 ►
inducted by you into the Kambo when that time comes. Very much so.
00:49:52 ►
Oh, that would be my pleasure to do that.
00:49:55 ►
Yeah, yeah. But that speaks volumes in terms of who you are as a person and what is important
00:50:03 ►
to you. And this planet needs healers.
00:50:07 ►
Definitely.
00:50:07 ►
It needs healers.
00:50:09 ►
It needs whatever you wish to title it or label it.
00:50:14 ►
Shaman, medicine person, witch.
00:50:16 ►
I don’t care what you call it or healer, but we need more people like this.
00:50:22 ►
And these substances, by the way, are legal that you are speaking of.
00:50:26 ►
Yes.
00:50:26 ►
They’re all legal.
00:50:29 ►
Because they’re not psychedelic, they have no hallucinogenic properties.
00:50:34 ►
They are all legal.
00:50:37 ►
And yet they’re powerful activators.
00:50:39 ►
They are so very powerful.
00:50:41 ►
They are so very powerful.
00:50:45 ►
I’m, as you talk about what the world needing and then us going out and working with other people,
00:50:51 ►
I think that comes from the plant myself.
00:50:54 ►
Yeah.
00:50:54 ►
Because our plants, the plant medicines are longing.
00:50:57 ►
You know, the shaman, they know that if the Western world particularly
00:51:02 ►
doesn’t wake up,
00:51:08 ►
the whole house of cards is going to come crashing in on all of us.
00:51:14 ►
And so these medicines know that there’s an intelligence in these medicines that we can’t even begin to comprehend.
00:51:19 ►
We can talk about all their properties and the peptides that they have
00:51:22 ►
on those scientific levels,
00:51:25 ►
but we have to go past that to the energetic levels,
00:51:29 ►
to all the other levels and the intelligence part of these medicines.
00:51:35 ►
And also the whole plant itself,
00:51:38 ►
because our science has a tendency to be very reductionist,
00:51:43 ►
and so it will reduce a plant to the sum of its parts.
00:51:46 ►
Definitely.
00:51:47 ►
And then you lose the whole.
00:51:50 ►
And I was studying the work of Dr. Bodog F. Beck,
00:51:54 ►
who healed people of arthritis and rheumatism with bee venom.
00:52:00 ►
And one of the things he said was that it is a cardinal mistake to simply reduce something to the sum of its parts
00:52:09 ►
and then isolate those parts, that you must have the whole.
00:52:13 ►
Otherwise, you are losing, I would say, the spirit of that plant or fungus.
00:52:20 ►
Well, it’s interesting that you would say that because that’s what we’ve done to the humanity also.
00:52:26 ►
That’s exactly right.
00:52:27 ►
So it’s just no different.
00:52:29 ►
It’s just what our culture has done.
00:52:31 ►
We’ve been reduced to really…
00:52:34 ►
Well, we’re cogs in the corporate wheel of empire,
00:52:38 ►
which is why we are in a society that, of course, tosses aside the uh its its elders because uh you know they are perceived
00:52:48 ►
as no longer really of value yeah and so uh worships uh youth and so as my teacher brujoy
00:52:56 ►
used to say we have a nation of children not just in this country but in many other westernized countries, we have a nation of children. And
00:53:06 ►
so that humanity, that spirit has been cast out in favor of this very highly commercialized,
00:53:15 ►
very artificial, ultimately, construct. And then, of course, you take these us, human beings, out of our natural environment
00:53:25 ►
and place us in this very unnatural, or I really see it as an overlay,
00:53:33 ►
this commercial system, and lo and behold, people are sick as can be,
00:53:37 ►
mentally, emotionally, physically, just as any animal taken out of its environment
00:53:43 ►
and put into an artificial environment would also become.
00:53:48 ►
And so, you know, we need to make some adjustments.
00:53:51 ►
And I see these plants as, you know, up to the task.
00:53:57 ►
Well, for sure.
00:53:58 ►
I mean, our Western medicine, you know, there is a place for that.
00:54:03 ►
If I got into a bad accident, I would definitely want to have a Western medicine.
00:54:08 ►
No question.
00:54:09 ►
Having to put me back together.
00:54:10 ►
No question.
00:54:11 ►
But Western medicine looks at only one aspect of self.
00:54:16 ►
And that’s the symptoms of what are going on.
00:54:20 ►
And they don’t look at the whole.
00:54:23 ►
It’s also very compartmentalized because you’ll see a specialist for the heart,
00:54:26 ►
a specialist for the kidneys,
00:54:28 ►
and yet it is a whole organism that must be addressed.
00:54:33 ►
Definitely.
00:54:34 ►
And I always love Einstein’s,
00:54:37 ►
when he said a problem can’t be solved
00:54:39 ►
at the same level in which it was created.
00:54:42 ►
And I think of Einstein probably different
00:54:43 ►
than other people I think of him as a mystic because he he’s saying or this is how i hear it he’s saying that if you
00:54:52 ►
have a physical problem you don’t always heal it on the physical level you have to go up to the
00:54:57 ►
next level which the emotional level and to the the mental level and then the spiritual levels. We have to go up another level
00:55:06 ►
in order to heal on the lower levels.
00:55:10 ►
So that’s the way I…
00:55:12 ►
When I hear that being said,
00:55:14 ►
and I know everybody has a different interpretation of that,
00:55:17 ►
but that’s how I interpreted it
00:55:18 ►
because I truly think of Einstein as a mystic.
00:55:22 ►
I think of Isaac Newton as a mystic.
00:55:25 ►
I don’t know how you could have that kind of wisdom without being, without going into the other realms
00:55:33 ►
to bring it forward.
00:55:36 ►
Well, now you talk about healing physical illness from a different level. Didn’t you say earlier the senenga,
00:55:46 ►
is it the senenga or the combo,
00:55:50 ►
has been, oh, I think I read that,
00:55:55 ►
has been associated with healing various ailments.
00:55:56 ►
Definitely.
00:55:58 ►
So how does that work then in your estimate?
00:56:03 ►
Well, I feel like it certainly goes into that physical level, but I think the spirit of that goes into another level.
00:56:07 ►
So when I use these medicines,
00:56:10 ►
I don’t feel like they’re on the physical level necessarily.
00:56:14 ►
Yes, we have an outward expansion of that,
00:56:19 ►
or outward we see it on a physical level,
00:56:22 ►
but I feel as though it goes on to a higher level.
00:56:26 ►
I would agree.
00:56:27 ►
And I think also, you know, being raised in this artificial construct called a society and being educated in the way we have been or indoctrinated is probably a better word for it.
00:56:41 ►
We are very highly limited in our scope of thinking, of awareness.
00:56:49 ►
So of course then we would engage these medicines and they can be quite efficacious at clearing a lot of that mental clutter
00:57:00 ►
and also I would say mental dogma and belief systems getting rid of that because you
00:57:06 ►
cannot access that maybe higher order thinking or higher order awareness with all that other
00:57:12 ►
stuff in the way I agree I think that’s the prison well and we’re shown that there’s sort of this approach to managing illness, if you will.
00:57:29 ►
I love how they manage illness.
00:57:30 ►
There’s very little to healing, to actual curing.
00:57:33 ►
That’s because there’s no actual profit in cures.
00:57:35 ►
But in any case, just my two cents.
00:57:39 ►
But I also, I don’t believe this, I know this,
00:57:41 ►
I also I don’t believe this
00:57:44 ►
I know this
00:57:44 ►
that we can bypass all of these
00:57:48 ►
sort of limited belief systems
00:57:50 ►
we have around how
00:57:51 ►
you would heal an illness
00:57:54 ►
and go into
00:57:56 ►
this much higher
00:57:57 ►
state of awareness or energetic state
00:58:00 ►
and if that can be accessed
00:58:02 ►
it’s like a domino
00:58:04 ►
effect and the entire physical body
00:58:06 ►
responds. And you can alter a sickness. I mean, many a shaman has experienced that or
00:58:13 ►
a medicine person.
00:58:14 ►
Oh, I think that’s absolutely true. A lot of my studies, particularly in relationship to the tarot, has been through the Kabbalah and the Tree of Life.
00:58:27 ►
And so just how form comes into being based on that way of thinking,
00:58:38 ►
it would say just that.
00:58:41 ►
As you’re talking, I just got that picture of how we we bring um we bring things into
00:58:47 ►
form and so at any point uh as we’re going through the tree of life we can change that
00:58:55 ►
uh so that the form is different when it gets so if we are having a physical issue as we’re
00:59:01 ►
we actually can go down through that tree and we can change it at some
00:59:07 ►
point so that the physicality changes too on the form and form right um and i know that’s a little
00:59:14 ►
bit uh abstract uh but i just had that picture of it as you were talking about it of seeing that
00:59:19 ►
they say that creation comes like a bolt of lightning. So it starts up here in the etheric level,
00:59:28 ►
and then it just bolts down through all the sephirah of the Kabbalah to form.
00:59:34 ►
Well, that would be the case even when you have an idea about something.
00:59:40 ►
And where’s the idea?
00:59:41 ►
Show me the idea.
00:59:42 ►
Well, it’s not manifest yet.
00:59:44 ►
It’s just in my mind. And so then you visualize it and you really mull it over and then you start to create it and then eventually that idea comes into the 3D. wonder of creation because it is, you know, we actually don’t like to use the word magic
01:00:06 ►
because it sounds a little sinister, but well, or, or people mock it or they mock it. Yeah. It’s
01:00:13 ►
been made fun of. And, um, but to me it’s magic. Yes. It’s just magic how we can take nothing.
01:00:21 ►
And then here is something all of a sudden.
01:00:28 ►
That’s magic to me.
01:00:28 ►
Yeah.
01:00:30 ►
It hardly makes any sense, right?
01:00:37 ►
If you try to actually intellectualize it, it doesn’t really make any sense.
01:00:40 ►
But it really is magic.
01:00:42 ►
But that’s how systems are formed.
01:00:42 ►
Definitely.
01:00:46 ►
People have an idea of how they want something to look,
01:00:49 ►
and then they create it,
01:00:52 ►
and then it’s held together really by collective agreement.
01:00:55 ►
I mean, we’re kind of all playing dress-ups here.
01:00:55 ►
Definitely.
01:00:57 ►
You know, Shakespeare said,
01:00:59 ►
all the world’s a stage and every one a player on it.
01:01:00 ►
Yeah.
01:01:03 ►
So when we can kind of start getting into that,
01:01:14 ►
I mean, to me, that’s how we look at reality for what it really is. I always crack up because I say,
01:01:26 ►
no, no, the actual hallucination is the society in which you are living, dear.
01:01:31 ►
And the mushroom has made that so clear to me.
01:01:34 ►
Like you really see with crystal clarity the structures, the construct.
01:01:42 ►
Yes, and I think we see how powerful we actually are through the plant
01:01:48 ►
medicines um that’s the beauty of it and not power in that negative sense because you know everything
01:01:55 ►
has a shadow side to it right of course and we take some we take some concepts and some words and
01:02:00 ►
we always put the negative uh spin spin on. So we think of power as being negative
01:02:06 ►
right now in our culture. Well, we are shown the negative aspect of power. I mean, we see
01:02:12 ►
people abusing, every world leader is pretty much abusing it, I mean, just egregiously.
01:02:19 ►
And yet we have all of this power within us that we’re just not using we just don’t realize we have it
01:02:26 ►
and that’s what we’ve come here to do that’s the beauty of life uh all these experiences and
01:02:33 ►
in some respects and i have fallen in this also in my you know first life
01:02:39 ►
i have lived life through my own mind.
01:02:47 ►
I’ve read about it.
01:02:48 ►
I’ve studied it.
01:02:53 ►
And it wasn’t until I actually got out and started experiencing it that I felt alive.
01:02:55 ►
I was just talking about this with somebody recently
01:02:58 ►
about this feeling of loneliness.
01:03:01 ►
And so many of my friends have talked about
01:03:04 ►
they have lots of friends, they have people around them and family, and yet they have this loneliness inside of loneliness. And so many of my friends have talked about, they have lots of friends,
01:03:05 ►
they have people around them and family, yet they have this loneliness inside of them. And so
01:03:10 ►
yesterday I was talking to a young guy in his early thirties and I was talking to him, I go,
01:03:16 ►
do you ever feel lonely? And he said, yeah, I do. And I started realizing that that loneliness,
01:03:24 ►
because I have experienced it too.
01:03:25 ►
I haven’t experienced it really in quite some time.
01:03:28 ►
But that loneliness, it’s not loneliness that nobody’s around
01:03:31 ►
or we don’t have friends or family.
01:03:33 ►
It’s something inside of our soul.
01:03:36 ►
Once I started living life and experiencing life
01:03:39 ►
and going out and getting past my fears
01:03:42 ►
and all my mental constructs and my belief systems,
01:03:45 ►
I have not felt that loneliness again.
01:03:49 ►
Because I feel alive.
01:03:52 ►
And I think that loneliness comes when we’re not living.
01:03:56 ►
So I’ve been very intrigued by that.
01:03:59 ►
I’m looking to do some study on that because I have so many people tell me how lonely they feel.
01:04:05 ►
Hmm. I would, I would say also that these plants will assist with that greatly because
01:04:12 ►
they give you, again, a direct experience that is felt from within. Yes. And, and for,
01:04:36 ►
And for, I know for myself and for others, it’s that sense of deep connection, of deep union with something very vast, something very profound.
01:04:39 ►
And that never leaves you.
01:04:41 ►
Definitely. I mean, we are somebody.
01:04:44 ►
We are here for a reason we’re not just some cosmic accident
01:04:50 ►
and in some respects i think for myself anyway that’s what i felt like the world was telling me
01:04:58 ►
but we’re not here by accident no we’re somebody we have uh We have an importance to the world. And when we can step into that,
01:05:12 ►
for whatever it is, sometimes it’s just doing something very quietly, going about our work
01:05:19 ►
that gives us joy. That’s when we feel alive. And I think it takes us out of our pain and suffering.
01:05:27 ►
I think what our society, for myself particularly, is that I longed for connection, real connection.
01:05:36 ►
Now we’ve learned to have mental connection in our society and we think that is connection.
01:05:41 ►
But we’re longing for emotional connection and our culture doesn’t know how to do
01:05:47 ►
that. We, um, or that’s been my experience. So I had to really, again, have an active will of
01:05:56 ►
learning to make an emotional connection with people rather than that intellectual connection and that changed my my whole frame
01:06:07 ►
of reference and how i experience people and actually my joy in life has been intensified
01:06:16 ►
now that i really can make those emotional connections with people
01:06:21 ►
it’s it just feels so beautiful to me now.
01:06:26 ►
Whereas before, again, I keep going back to that loneliness that we experience,
01:06:30 ►
and I think it’s because we don’t have that complete emotional connection
01:06:35 ►
with one another on those deep levels.
01:06:40 ►
And we do long for that.
01:06:42 ►
Absolutely. Absolutely. My goodness.
01:06:44 ►
And when you are adding these medicines into the mix,
01:06:49 ►
I mean, you go very deep with people.
01:06:50 ►
Oh, the medicines are…
01:06:54 ►
They are like the healer that allows us to make those connections.
01:07:00 ►
For me, anyway.
01:07:01 ►
They were the healer that has removed the blocks,
01:07:07 ►
that has healed that separation that I sensed.
01:07:13 ►
That block I always had up with people of,
01:07:16 ►
you can come this far and that’s it,
01:07:19 ►
but you’re not going to get any closer.
01:07:24 ►
So the medicines actually kind of opened that up so
01:07:27 ►
that i don’t have to be afraid for people to see who i am uh now yeah i i see the plant medicines
01:07:36 ►
really as i mean there are people who who have different experiences but i i really see them
01:07:42 ►
that they’re all about relationship and at the
01:07:45 ►
end of the day it’s not about you know your job it’s not about you know it’s really about
01:07:52 ►
relationship yes and we’ve lost that in our culture i think about my time spent in the jungle
01:07:58 ►
how connected uh we all became in that you know 10 day period there was a bond that was built and
01:08:07 ►
a connection that was built there that was so satisfying and i still stay connected to these
01:08:13 ►
people but even when they’re not around i feel a connection to them and those are the connections connections we we long for and again that are so very satisfying to um our joy of life um
01:08:30 ►
and our quality of life but we’re but there’s no there’s not a lot of space in our culture
01:08:36 ►
for those kind of connections we have to hurry up you have to get this done, and you’ve got all this to done, and you’ve got to do this, and the busier we are,
01:08:46 ►
the more we feel as though we matter.
01:08:54 ►
Yeah, I read an article a while ago,
01:08:57 ►
a really sobering article,
01:08:59 ►
called something like
01:08:59 ►
The Five Most Common Regrets of the Dime.
01:09:03 ►
Oh, I read that too.
01:09:05 ►
Yeah. It’s just such a wake-up call. It’s very sobering. Yes, regrets of the dying. Oh, I’ve read that too. Yeah.
01:09:06 ►
It’s just such a wake-up call.
01:09:07 ►
It’s very sobering.
01:09:08 ►
Yes, one of the regrets being,
01:09:10 ►
I wish I hadn’t worked so much.
01:09:12 ►
Right.
01:09:13 ►
You know, and so, yes,
01:09:15 ►
well, perhaps this is also
01:09:17 ►
a small but growing evolution
01:09:21 ►
where these plants are calling us back to our humanity, calling
01:09:27 ►
us back to reality, what’s really real, and calling us back to relationship.
01:09:34 ►
I believe that is so true.
01:09:37 ►
It’s, you know, I don’t know where our world’s headed or what’s going to happen,
01:09:45 ►
but I know that these medicines can help us all to bring us back.
01:09:52 ►
So I suppose if I said why I feel so drawn to be this practitioner
01:09:58 ►
is because I’ve experienced that coming back to myself
01:10:04 ►
and wanting to connect with people
01:10:06 ►
and being able to open up to that connection.
01:10:10 ►
And what I want for myself, I want for others.
01:10:15 ►
So that’s really my drive.
01:10:19 ►
There’s so much pain and suffering out there that I see in people.
01:10:23 ►
And you just want them to, you know, none of us want to be in that pain and suffering out there that I see in people and you just want them to, you know,
01:10:25 ►
none of us want to be in that pain and suffering.
01:10:28 ►
And we don’t have to be.
01:10:30 ►
There’s tools out there that we can use
01:10:32 ►
to bring us out of that.
01:10:38 ►
And I believe that the plant medicines
01:10:40 ►
are instrumental to that.
01:10:43 ►
I would agree.
01:10:45 ►
Well, it is heartening, Ginny,
01:10:49 ►
to know that you are on this path
01:10:52 ►
and you will be helping people with this
01:10:56 ►
because you are really teeming with wisdom
01:10:59 ►
and you have all this life experience behind you
01:11:02 ►
and great compassion.
01:11:05 ►
Oh, well, thanks.
01:11:07 ►
I feel, I remember when we first met, so I felt that same connection with you,
01:11:14 ►
that we have similar paths that we’re on and what we’re wanting to bring to the world.
01:11:22 ►
Yeah, well, Terrence McKenna said, find the others.
01:11:26 ►
And we are finding each other.
01:11:30 ►
I think of us as kindreds and others on this path, as kindreds, fellow travelers on this.
01:11:38 ►
It’s not as trodden path.
01:11:41 ►
No, it’s not.
01:11:42 ►
path. No, it’s not.
01:11:43 ►
So it’s sometimes I find it difficult
01:11:47 ►
as I’m talking to people about
01:11:49 ►
these medicines that
01:11:51 ►
they really have a full understanding. And yet
01:11:53 ►
that’s because a lot of times we try
01:11:56 ►
to do it on that intellectual level.
01:11:58 ►
And this is something that just has to be
01:12:00 ►
experienced to be fully
01:12:01 ►
understood. That’s right. We can put
01:12:04 ►
words to it and uh talk about it
01:12:07 ►
and at the end of the day only through the experience can you truly have the understanding
01:12:14 ►
of what it can do and um so i always feel like i lack words in talking about it because they
01:12:23 ►
just don’t seem to be enough well
01:12:26 ►
that’s because you’re absolutely right there
01:12:28 ►
I mean it’s so profound
01:12:30 ►
it’s so profound and it is about
01:12:32 ►
going within
01:12:34 ►
and that’s where I think
01:12:36 ►
of this as the work of the sacred
01:12:38 ►
and bringing us into connection
01:12:40 ►
with the sacred and the sacred is
01:12:42 ►
found within each and every one of us
01:12:44 ►
yep, it’s
01:12:46 ►
right there yeah well thank you jenny this has just been wonderful and uh how can people get
01:12:52 ►
in touch with you or do you have a website um i do have a website right now it is uh cambo kiss
01:12:58 ►
with a with a k k-a-m-b-o kiss..com And you can also go to my Facebook page,
01:13:07 ►
Cambo Kiss.
01:13:09 ►
And we are doing three-day ceremonies
01:13:13 ►
here in Seattle
01:13:15 ►
on the 13th, 14th, and 15th of June.
01:13:19 ►
And again, Simon Scott from Cambo Cleanse
01:13:24 ►
will be up here doing those ceremonies.
01:13:27 ►
So I’m very excited about it for people in this area
01:13:29 ►
because it’s a great opportunity to experience this wonderful plant medicine
01:13:33 ►
without having to fly to L.A. and rent a car and get a hotel.
01:13:38 ►
And so it’s something that would be a way that some of the Seattle people
01:13:42 ►
could experience this in the area.
01:13:44 ►
Wonderful. And then you will be offering some of the Seattle people could experience this in the area. Wonderful.
01:13:45 ►
And then you will be offering some of these yourself in the future?
01:13:48 ►
Yes.
01:13:48 ►
I have one planned September 13th, 14th, and 15th,
01:13:53 ►
which happens to be a full moon also.
01:13:56 ►
Perfect.
01:13:56 ►
So that will be in the Seattle area?
01:13:59 ►
It will be in the Seattle area.
01:14:00 ►
That’s going to be a little different retreat.
01:14:01 ►
I’m calling it Cambo Complete
01:14:04 ►
because what I find it Cambo Complete.
01:14:10 ►
Because what I find with Cambo in the traditional way in which it’s administered,
01:14:11 ►
which I will always follow that traditional way,
01:14:14 ►
I always felt like there was a little more people,
01:14:17 ►
some of their stuff shows up a little bit and they need some integration on what their next steps are after the Cambo.
01:14:20 ►
And so I work with two British-trained psychotherapists.
01:14:26 ►
She is a hypnotherapist, and she does soul-directed therapies.
01:14:31 ►
And he is a tarot master and an astrology master.
01:14:37 ►
And so we’re going to add other things to that workshop
01:14:40 ►
so that people can take next steps after the Cambo
01:14:45 ►
fabulous that’s wonderful
01:14:48 ►
very excited about that
01:14:49 ►
September retreat oh great
01:14:52 ►
so that will be up on your website
01:14:53 ►
that will be up on the website
01:14:54 ►
excellent alright Jenny well thank you
01:14:57 ►
so much Shana it has been
01:14:59 ►
such a great pleasure
01:15:01 ►
wonderful we’ll be talking
01:15:03 ►
again soon alright All right.
01:15:05 ►
Thank you.
01:15:06 ►
Thanks.
01:15:11 ►
You’re listening to The Psychedelic Salon,
01:15:13 ►
where people are changing their lives one thought at a time.
01:15:18 ►
I found it interesting when these medicine women were talking about the ways
01:15:22 ►
in which scientists tend to reduce a plant to its individual components,
01:15:27 ►
at least chemically.
01:15:29 ►
And if you’ve been with us here in the salon for a while,
01:15:31 ►
then you’ve heard several sides of this discussion from chemists like Sasha Shulgin and plant people like Terrence McKenna.
01:15:38 ►
And, as you probably know, I come down on the side of the plant people.
01:15:42 ►
For example, everybody that I know who has tried
01:15:45 ►
pure THC has come away disliking it in that form. Yet, when combined with the more than 50 or 60
01:15:52 ►
other cannabinoids in cannabis, well, they love it. Now, one of the things to keep in mind, though,
01:15:58 ►
is that while Sasha did, in fact, do numerous extractions of psychedelic chemicals from plants,
01:16:04 ►
his best work was actually in creating a lot of psychedelic chemicals from plants. His best work was actually
01:16:05 ►
in creating a lot of psychoactive chemicals from scratch. It’s an interesting discussion,
01:16:11 ►
plants versus chemistry, but if you listen closely, even Sasha is saying that while psilocybin
01:16:17 ►
is psilocybin, whether it comes from a plant or the laboratory, he does agree that there
01:16:22 ►
are other chemicals in some mushrooms that may have a unique and synergistic effect when the entire plant is consumed.
01:16:30 ►
So, where are you on this topic?
01:16:33 ►
And the reason that I ask that question right now is to let you know that it’s truly alright to not have an opinion about everything.
01:16:44 ►
opinion about everything. With all of the political discussions going on right now,
01:16:50 ►
it seems like we’re expected to have an opinion on virtually every question that comes our way.
01:16:55 ►
But personally, I find it a better practice, unless I already have a firm opinion about something,
01:17:00 ►
I find it best to say, well, that’s an interesting question. I’ll have to give it some thought when some of these questions come up. But as to the question of plants versus their
01:17:06 ►
individual chemical components, I’m firmly on the side of plants. Now I don’t know if you’ve had an
01:17:13 ►
ayahuasca experience yourself yet, but if you have and if it was done right, then I’m sure that you
01:17:19 ►
completely understand what Ginny meant when she was talking about a beautiful purge.
01:17:24 ►
I completely understand what Ginny meant when she was talking about a beautiful purge.
01:17:30 ►
I know that it sounds gross, but trust me, I’ve had more than one beautiful purge,
01:17:36 ►
and I’ve found it can actually be like floating in the middle of a huge fireworks display in the sky.
01:17:38 ►
Truly beautiful it can be.
01:17:44 ►
And I also found it interesting to listen to Ginny speak about confronting her fear,
01:17:48 ►
which is something that I also did at an ayahuasca ceremony one time.
01:17:53 ►
Actually, it was one of my most profound experiences with the vine.
01:17:57 ►
However, I’m pretty sure that I told that story already once here in the salon,
01:17:59 ►
so I’ll spare you today.
01:18:03 ►
In fact, I see that our time is up today, so I’ll save the main part of this announcement for next week.
01:18:06 ►
But I think that you may want to know about a nationwide event that’s going to take place this coming September 20th.
01:18:13 ►
I’m talking about the 920 Coalition, which is organizing dozens of events on the 20th of September 2015,
01:18:22 ►
both in the U.S. and around the world.
01:18:21 ►
September 2015 both in the U.S. and around the world
01:18:24 ►
and it’s going to be focused
01:18:26 ►
on recent research on the role
01:18:27 ►
of medicinal psilocybin mushrooms
01:18:29 ►
in our society
01:18:31 ►
and in our health care system
01:18:33 ►
this is something that I think that
01:18:35 ►
we can all participate in at some level
01:18:37 ►
and I’ll give you more details next week
01:18:39 ►
but if you want to get a jump on the rest
01:18:42 ►
of the salonners you can go to
01:18:43 ►
www.920coalition.org for more information.
01:18:50 ►
Also, I hope that you or some of your friends will be attending this year’s Women’s Visionary Congress,
01:18:56 ►
which is going to be held in Petaluma, California, from the 19th to the 21st of this month,
01:19:02 ►
which is June 2015 for any time travelers who may be with us today.
01:19:08 ►
And I’ll put a link to their website in today’s program notes also,
01:19:11 ►
which you know you can get to via psychedelicsalon.us.
01:19:16 ►
And for now, this is Lorenzo signing off from Cyberdelic Space.
01:19:20 ►
Be careful out there, my friends.